FAT FRANK IS SCORING GOALS ! as an attacking midfielder !
Did anyone hear me ?!
Did anyone hear me ?!
Stevie G
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Yes. You're right of course, but what else is there to say about that?
Either that or, when Allen's fit, I'd be tempted to try him there.
It's not written in stone that we MUST have a holding midfielder. Maybe this back four might actually play more like a unit if it didn't have the distraction of a holding midfielder. It's not impossible for a team to cope without having one particular bloke waddling around that strip of pitch (especially if you've a manager who loves fluidity in each formation). If you've got a Mascher, then, brilliant, you've got a master of the art. But if you've just got two or three round pegs for a square hole, maybe stop trying to hammer one of them into it.
I don't really see the point in starting Gerrard anymore. I think Can could play his role at least as effectively, and with him you at least get the bonus of seeing him improve and bed into the team.
I would basically use him as a substitute or for very specific roles in particular matches, where his experience can lend something important. Paisley would never have tolerated a situation where we were trying to fit a player into the team because of who he was.
I would basically use him as a substitute or for very specific roles in particular matches, where his experience can lend something important. Paisley would never have tolerated a situation where we were trying to fit a player into the team because of who he was.
Ha! A man of your seasoned experience would know all about what Paisley would do right? *cough*. Don't tell me you were studying formations when you were three lad. Props if you did of course.....
Books? Yeah you can learn a lot from them I've heard.
It may not be impossible in theory for a back four to cope without a DM, but in practice I don't think our current back four is ready to do so. IMO they've demonstrated that not only this season but last season as well, when it didn't matter so much because Suarez was chewing opposition defences up at the other end of the pitch.
Again, in theory I agree about square pegs and round holes, and this is a gap I reckon we need to remedy in January if Can isn't ready. Until then, though, for me it's a matter of making the best of what we have in practice.
It didn't really help, in retrospect, that Brendan made such a point of saying that Gerrard was not playing as a holding or defensive midfielder but rather as a 'pivot' in an attacking team. That's basically drawn a circle around the player with the message for the opposition, 'Block the pivot and the attack will struggle to get started'. And the term also highlights how confused Gerrard's interpretation of it is, because he's chasing everywhere like a blue arsed fly, doing traditional DM duties, and then also trying to get back into position as 'the pivot'. And he's not helping the back four to settle down because he's forever charging into their space, confusing all of them as to who is doing what. He certainly needs to stay well away from there, and if Lucas (whose shortcomings we all know only too well) or Can (who doesn't strike me as a DM, and in his recent outings seemed to have an almost Lucas-like ability to foul players) are the only other options, then I say drop the dogma until a proper player can be signed for the position.
It's not like Gerrard often passes to the more central midfielders anyway (e.g Henderson), usually spreading it wide to the FBs or Sterling/Lallana etc. so maybe 4-2-3-1 with FBs pressing on as they are doing now and whichever of Gerrard or Partner push forward, the other is always there to cover doing the DM job. Less predictability and Gerrard is not always going to be the player sitting in front of the CBs.
.................... Skrtel .......... Lovren
Manquillo.....Gerrard .... Partner ... Moreno
...MF ......................MF ....................MF
............................ Striker
.................... Skrtel .......... Lovren
Manquillo.....Gerrard .... Partner ... Moreno
...MF ......................MF ....................MF
............................ Striker
He's played less minutes at this stage of the season than he had done at the same stage of last season (as highlighted on MNF) so that argument's redundant really.
And stats don't tell me how many untracked opposition runs he let go, or how well or badly he read the play, or how good or bad he was at reacting to or nullifying threats, or how quickly or slowly he closed down an opponent, or how well he did at holding the right line in front of the CB, or fucking anything really. Stats for a defensive midfielder are pretty much the most pointless thing in football.
Stevie is still our 5th best player this season acc to the ratings. It seems we think less of him than other teams fans who still rate him highely (bar Chelsea and Utd obvs).
Stats are a bit pointless for a dm but compared to Lucas he gets dribbled past half the amount of times and concedes 1/3 of the fouls.
Shame both Can and Allen are out injured or we could have rotated a wee bit more.
Stats are a bit pointless for a dm but compared to Lucas he gets dribbled past half the amount of times and concedes 1/3 of the fouls.
Shame both Can and Allen are out injured or we could have rotated a wee bit more.
You'd think an international player of long standing, experience and acknowledged talent would have the know how and practical skills to recognize and outwit a plan to nullify his effectiveness.
Are we really suggesting that after six hundred odd appearances he can't see a trap being set for him?
Are we really suggesting that after six hundred odd appearances he can't see a trap being set for him?
Yeh but at the same time he played in the WC this summer, which makes a difference at any age, but moreso at his age.
With regards to the stats, I couldn't agree more. They have their place, but stats can be used to show bloody anything in a positive or negative light, depending on the agenda.
To be fair to him it's not exactly easy for a 'pivot' to cope with being man marked. If you're man marked further up the pitch you can roam around and shake them off, but Gerrard's supposed to be pretty much fixed where he is, so there's not much he can do. Unlike most conventional DMs his primary role is supposed to be creative, but just deeper, so there was always going to be a time when opposing teams started trying to nullify him. I'd say it's more down to Brendan to sort that out - he's the one who put him there.
I agree. If BR has told him to stay put and be rigid in his role, that limits what he can do to work around the issues. Some coaches are very inflexible in their management, and if BR is one of those with regards to this position, that may go some way to explaining things. A few ex Pulis players have said as much about him and that their roles were very very strictly laid down and defined and had to be adhered to as much as possible.
Aren't people who suggest he be moved forwards forgetting that the whole reason he was moved back in the first place was that he didn't look capable of playing an attacking role anymore?
That was it, wasn't it? I ask because I genuinely can't remember. It just seems like that was the feeling at the time - of trying to find him a new role.
That was it, wasn't it? I ask because I genuinely can't remember. It just seems like that was the feeling at the time - of trying to find him a new role.
Before he was moved into his current role he was sort of operating in a midfield limbo - not the furthest forward, not the deepest. The Joe Allen role, essentially, where he was meant to be the metronome of the side, which didn't really suit him either.
I think it was a noble idea of Rodgers to try it - it's a more imaginative and progressive idea than using a conventional DM there - but I just don't think it works when the opposing team targets it as a problem. The odd exceptional player, most notably Pirlo, of course, can collect and release the ball so quickly and precisely that even most man markers will struggle to blunt his effectiveness, but even he has been shut out of certain games because the position is so obviously limited in terms of location on the pitch (the mancs, for example, used Park Ji-Sung to stifle him through sheer persistence). It doesn't help that Gerrard remains a player with such an excitable football brain he can't help but also get dragged away into other areas, not actively but reactively, so he's essentially adding to his own incoherence.
I think you're right. I'm sure his lack of legs was often given as a reason to move him further back as our movement and pace up front were too much for him. The was SSS were playing last season, it was understandable.
If he can't play up front, can't play DM, then the only other role I can see him playing is next to another DM or just in front of him and pinging passes about, getting forward when he can as well as helping the other DM out. Can't see BR playing that system though.
I think that hints at the real nub of the Gerrard issue, and why he's not aged particularly well: he's never been an intelligent, disciplined player. His brilliance was his dynamism and versatility, that sheer energy. Seen in that light he was never automatically going to be a brilliant older player, like Pirlo, or Totti.
Yes. I'd say he's intelligent, but, as you say, certainly not disciplined. He's the least 'zonal' player we'll ever see. He's drawn to where the ball is, wherever it is.
Which imo makes him perfect for the role that lampard does. Occasionally getting stuck in & getting the ball, but more often being a pain in the arse to their dm, being afforded an extra yard due to reputation at times, & playing exquisite through balls & clever passes further up the pitch.
I also think he'll get a few goals again as he's more than capable of scoring from short range & he'll be in the box more often when shots are spilled etc.
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