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State of the title race

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rurikbird

Part of the Furniture
Honorary Member
Just some thoughts on the title race as it's shaping up. It is of course too early to be counting points or comparing the difficulty of the remaining fixtures like you would do in the final stretch - sometimes what initially looks like a tight race turns out to be one-sided once the season really gets into a groove. But at the moment it does look like the top 3 teams - Chelsea, ourselves and City in current order in the table - are pretty evenly matched and what makes it even more interesting is that the respective teams' strengths and weaknesses pretty much mirror each other.

City have the deepest pool of creative talent, they can saturate the midfield with top-class attackers who are all also tactically savvy and hard-working and so will dominate most games. The way they schooled Chelsea and starved us of oxygen at Anfield in the 1st half was seriously impressive. However, their lack of reliable cutting edge up front means that they will either be blowing teams away when they are playing well or failing to make their dominance count when things are just a bit off and that's what we saw in the games where they've dropped points. That being said, if Guardiola gets the personnel and the rotation decisions right, they have the best chance of all 3 teams to go on a long winning run that can propel them to the title.

We have unquestionably the best starting 11, a world-class striker in the best form of his career in Salah, a great CB pairing, best creative full-backs in the country and a front 3 or 4 with serious cutting edge and a variety of threats. Being highly efficient in both boxes means that we don't necessarily need to dominate in midfield to win – as long as we don't lose the midfield battle, we're probably OK (a mirror opposite of City for whom dominating in midfield is the basic prerequisite to any kind of positive result). Our fatal flaw is the small squad, so we're are the most likely of all the contenders to be affected by an injury crisis or accumulation of fatigue. Some of these concerns have been somewhat ameliorated with the positive contributions from the likes of Tsimikas, Jones and Origi and the hope for quick recovery by the exciting Elliott, but I still need to see some consistency in midfield selections before I can start getting more confident about our chances.

Finally, we have Chelsea who have a completely different set of strengths – a near impenetrable defensive unit with good depth and excellent balance of youth and experience in every position in the back 7, but at the moment their expensive attackers are all misfiring – Lukaku hasn't scored for 6 games running, Werner is doing some useful things in stretching defenses, but his finishing is still Werner-esque and Havertz, Pulisic, Zyech and others seems to be losing rather than gaining in confidence. Will the goals from the likes of Chilwell and Chalobah eventually dry up and thus put even more pressure on the misfiring offense or will Tuchel gradually solve the issues up front, which will probably have them coast to the title? A related problem is that as good as their defense has been, it is reliant on the numbers compensating for the relative lack of individual quality; they have to play with a back 3 because Rudiger is no Van Dijk or Dias, they don't have defenders comfortable with covering a lot of space by themselves so the whole balance of the team tilts towards defense, leaving their forwards chronically outnumbered (which partly explains why they are struggling).

So to summarize, for City to win the title, they have to get their most effective attackers into red-hot form all at the same time and then go on a deep winning run that will leave everyone else in the dust (they've done that before). For Chelsea to win the title, they need to either find the front 3 that works consistently or tilt the balance of the team a bit more towards attack without losing the solidity (Chelsea have done that before too, but not with these attackers). And for us, we just have to keep the current excellent balance and go through the season relatively injury-free, so that our best players can be rested and fresh for the final stretch. Which of the 3 is more likely, in your opinion?
 
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Excellent post. As much as I complain here, I always believe we are going to win the league unless it is mathematically impossible to do so. In our title-winning season, we discovered the formula the previous season when we got 97 points and jacked up the intensity in the season we won the title.

I feel that this season, we are not there yet. We have been impressive but almost feel that this group is still in the process of gradually rediscovering their strengths again - especially Mane, VVD, Firmino - after last season. It is almost as if the team took a collective blow to the head last season and slowly have started remembering that they are great. Salah is playing at a level I have never seen from an LFC player before. Signs are good. Barring injuries I think we will gradually improve even more and sooner or later click into high gear and start demolishing teams left, right, and center. I feel like there is a demolition of Leicester on boxing day performance coming soon which will really kickstart our title challenge.

Maybe I am being overly optimistic.
 
Just some thoughts on the title race as it's shaping up. It is of course too early to be counting points or comparing the difficulty of the remaining fixtures like you would do in the final stretch - sometimes what initially looks like a tight race turns out to be one-sided once the season really gets into a groove. But at the moment it does look like the top 3 teams - Chelsea, ourselves and City in current order in the table - are pretty evenly matched and what makes it even more interesting is that the respective teams' strengths and weaknesses pretty much mirror each other.

City have the deepest pool of creative talent, they can saturate the midfield with top-class attackers who are all also tactically savvy and hard-working and so will dominate most games. The way they schooled Chelsea and starved us of oxygen at Anfield in the 1st half was seriously impressive. However, their lack of reliable cutting edge up front means that they will either be blowing teams away when they are playing well or failing to make their dominance count when things are just a bit off and that's what we saw in the games where they've dropped points. That being said, if Guardiola gets the personnel and the rotation decisions right, they have the best chance of all 3 teams to go on a long winning run that can propel them to the title.

We have unquestionably the best starting 11, a world-class striker in the best form of his career in Salah, a great CB pairing, best creative full-backs in the country and a front 3 or 4 with serious cutting edge and a variety of threats. Being highly efficient in both boxes means that we don't necessarily need to dominate in midfield to win – as long as we don't lose the midfield battle, we're probably OK (a mirror opposite of City for whom dominating in midfield is the basic prerequisite to any kind of positive result). Our fatal flaw is the small squad, so we're are the most likely of all the contenders to be affected by an injury crisis or accumulation of fatigue. Some of these concerns have been somewhat ameliorated with the positive contributions from the likes of Tsimikas, Jones and Origi and the hope for quick recovery by the exciting Elliott, but I still need to see some consistency in midfield selections before I can start getting more confident about our chances.

Finally, we have Chelsea who have a completely different set of strengths – a near impenetrable defensive unit with good depth and excellent balance of youth and experience in every position in the back 7, but at the moment their expensive attackers are all misfiring – Lukaku hasn't scored for 6 games running, Werner is doing some useful things in stretching defenses, but his finishing is still Werner-esque and Havertz, Pulisic, Zyech and others seems to be losing rather than gaining in confidence. Will the goals from the likes of Chilwell and Chalobah eventually dry up and thus put even more pressure on the misfiring offense or will Tuchel gradually solve the issues up front, which will probably have them coast to the title? A related problem is that as good as their defense has been, it is reliant on the numbers compensating for the relative lack of individual quality; they have to play with a back 3 because Rudiger is no Van Dijk or Dias, they don't have defenders comfortable with covering a lot of space by themselves so the whole balance of the team tilts towards defense, leaving their forwards chronically outnumbered (which partly explains why they are struggling).

So to summarize, for City to win the title, they have to get their most effective attackers into red-hot form all at the same time and then go on a deep winning run that will leave everyone else in the dust (they've done that before). For Chelsea to win the title, they need to either find the front 3 that works consistently or tilt the balance of the team a bit more towards attack without losing the solidity (Chelsea have done that before too, but not with these attackers). And for us, we just have to keep the current excellent balance and go through the season relatively injury-free, so that our best players can be rested and fresh for the final stretch. Which of the 3 is more likely, in your opinion?
Chelsea’s defence is the meanest. Just look at how they withstood Brentford who opened us up time and time again.

As usual it’ll come down to injuries. I think City will win it. We are very close to an injury crisis already.
 
Chelsea’s defence is the meanest. Just look at how they withstood Brentford who opened us up time and time again.

As usual it’ll come down to injuries. I think City will win it. We are very close to an injury crisis already.

Chelsea massively rode their luck that game, Brentford had multiple clear cut chances to win. Mendy has bailed them out in a couple of games now, I'm hoping that luck will fade soon enough, but I fear he's just a top top goalkeeper that has given them what Allison has given us.
 
The only thing that bothers me is that we've dropped points at home against both Chelsea and City. Points we might possibly need to gain at their expense in their respective grounds.
 
The only thing that bothers me is that we've dropped points at home against both Chelsea and City. Points we might possibly need to gain at their expense in their respective grounds.
I don’t see either dropping many points this season tbh so we will most likely have to avoid defeat at worst.
 
Chelsea’s defence is the meanest. Just look at how they withstood Brentford who opened us up time and time again.

As usual it’ll come down to injuries. I think City will win it. We are very close to an injury crisis already.
They were being destroyed the other night. Shots hitting the post/bar and Mendy playing out of his skin was what allowed them that narrow win. It was absolutely not their defence that bailed them out.
 
If I were a betting man, I'd probably pick City. They've done it multiple times over the last 5 years, and their strength in depth, especially in terms of technically good midfield and attacking players is excellent. That's the entire foundation of their football, and they know how to do it over and over again. They are susceptible to being bullied occasionally by a team which is physical and unafraid to have a go at them - that's their one weakness. My hope is they have a run somewhere during the season where they run into 2-3 bad results at a time.

Chelsea look impregnable in defence, but I do agree that's because of the fact that they commit an extra man at the back. They can eke out 1-0 wins, but there will come a time when teams will simply shut shop against them, and they'll need to find a goal to beat them. That'll be Chelsea's real test - whether they can avoid those multiple draws that are often very damaging to a title run. It's better to lose a game or two, as long as you are capable of converting the vast portion of those draws into wins.

As for us, everything hinges on health. At least we look well-provisioned at CB and full-back (Tsimikas has been a blessing). The attack looks nice at the moment, but the moment we need to call upon Origi and Minamino for meaningful minutes, we'll be fucked. Midfield looks thin, and the combination seems to change very frequently. If we come through till February relatively unscathed, I think we could take it past the finish line.
 
Would absolutely love it if we signed someone like Adeyemi in January. Could be an absolute x-factor for us in the second half of the season.
 
The only thing that bothers me is that we've dropped points at home against both Chelsea and City. Points we might possibly need to gain at their expense in their respective grounds.

Yeah, that bothers me too. We’ve also been outplayed in some periods of both games, even though Klopp made the adjustments and we could have won both.
 
I'm still backing us. The team have been there and done it, Mane and Firmino appear to have bounced back, VVD is slowly getting there. There's still room for improvement, especially in our midfield when we're out of possession, but Klopp will get us there. The difference makers will be we've got Mo Salah, and we've also got a squad full of players who have been teased with a PL title, but haven't had the full experience of winning it. We've got Jota, Thiago and Elliott to come back in. Jones looks in the form of his life. I think it's looking as good as we could ever have hoped, especially after all the pessimism of our window..

Chelsea will come close, but they'll falter. Title winning teams usually come very close before winning it. Chelsea haven't had that season yet. Winning the league is like how it is for a car to reach top speeds. It's relatively easy for them to hit 150mph, but every MPH above that becomes harder and harder and harder. That experience needs to be earned and gained. I'm not writing them off, because Tuchel has done wonders, but history suggests they're not there yet.

City are likely the bookies favourites and it's easy to see why, but without a reliable source of goals I can see them struggling when the form inevitably drops off. Nothing significant, but three or four wins becoming draws will be enough in this title race.

Getting to January unbeaten will be important for us. It will cement the idea in our own and opposition players that we're back at the very highest level.
 
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I am a full believer. Chelsea could run us close by being hard to beat, and City could be up there by smashing all of the 'trash' in the league, which is what we really need to be doing too.

Unbeaten and getting into the swing of things having already dealt with injuries to Trent, Thiago, Elliot.

Let's fucking gooooo
 
With Virg and Salah playing as they are, with Fabinho being boss, we just need to keep enough midfielders to keep playing a full side to win the league
 
Excellent post Rurik, and I agree. For us to win this season we have to be lucky with injuries to key players, but so far I havent seen anything from City or Chelsea that we cant match.

I have to say even though Chelsea have grinded out some results and conceded few goals. They can largely thank Mendy for their defensive solidity. They're giving up some big chances and he is the reason they haven't dropped more points. Not sure that is sustainable in the long run if this continues.
 
Chelsea’s defence is the meanest. Just look at how they withstood Brentford who opened us up time and time again.

As usual it’ll come down to injuries. I think City will win it. We are very close to an injury crisis already.
They were a bit lucky against Brentford. Had Mendy not had an absolute stormer they could well have even lost, so the rest of their defence wasn't that great was it. Yes, yes that is what he is there for but no keeper is shit-hot every match.
 
Chelsea's defense got outplayed against Brentford and only some insane saves by Mendy kept them in the game. They are giving up some very big chances and Brentford hit the woodwork twice. 17-5 in shots, 7-1 on target.
 
It was also a lot of spectacular time-wasting skills, and falling over at convenient times to disrupt the game. Mendy took the fucking piss after getting hit in the head, carrying on for a further minute until the ball went out, then collapsing due to a delayed concussion requiring five minutes of treatment. Cunt.
 
True, but then we have also given up big chances in the past and gotten away with them. That's usually the difference between the top sides and the rest - the top sides convert more chances.
Chelsea have a great squad with a lot of quality and depth. It might be too early for them but as things stand they look pretty hard to beat.

City are the favourites. They usually beat the dross of the league in 2nd/3rd gear when they can be bothered and thus far they've beaten Chelsea and were probably unlucky not to get 3pts against us. They're annoyingly good... even without a striker. As has been said, we just have to hope that they have a bit of a blip where the goals dry up a little and / or a few injuries.

Enough has been said about us. We rely on fitness and momentum. Fingers crossed.

It feels like a 95pt+ season is less likely this season as the league is far more competitive. What points total do you think will be enough to take it?
 
City look like the team to beat. They were very good against us, and they played Chelsea off the park.
Big bloated squad that can be rotated every week with a billion worth of talent.
 
Speaking of our chances, December will be a ridiculously hard month for us. We have:

Nov 30: Everton (A)
Dec 4: Wolves (A)
Dec 11: Villa (H)
Dec 15: Newcastle (H)
Dec 18: Spurs (A)
Dec 26: Leeds (H)
Dec 28: Leicester (A)
Jan 1: Chelsea (A)

There's also a CL game at Milan on Dec 8. Need to make sure we've already qualified by then, so we can play a B team in this game.

Effectively 9 games in the space of a month - will be hell.
 
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