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Spanish Teams

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6TimesaRed

6TimesaRed

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So dominant in Europe...

At the time of writing we could have 2 All Spanish finals... and imho probably will end up that way..

I cant see City getting the better of Madrid in their own back yard.. Sevillia are at home with 2 away goals.. then there is Villareal.. taking a 1-0 lead to Anfield.. I can see them scoring an away goal which will make Liverpool's job much harder...

So I predict 2 Spanish finals..

They have dominated the trophy haul in Europe in recent times..

Why is this, with supposedly the Biggest and Best League in the world at our disposal ?

Is it because of the competitive nature of our Domestic League, killing off our clubs European ambitions ?

Is this because of the dominance of their national side over the last decade ?

Do you think if our National side was more successful our clubs would be more successful in Europe?
 
The Premier league isnt the best league though.
I think its a combination of how they're organized and the type of football they play.
Its very suited to European competitions.
2-3 of the Spanish teams are some of the best in the World aswell.
 
RedNinja said:
So dominant in Europe...

At the time of writing we could have 2 All Spanish finals... and imho probably will end up that way..

I cant see City getting the better of Madrid in their own back yard.. Sevillia are at home with 2 away goals.. then there is Villareal.. taking a 1-0 lead to Anfield.. I can see them scoring an away goal which will make Liverpool's job much harder...

So I predict 2 Spanish finals..

They have dominated the trophy haul in Europe in recent times..

Why is this, with supposedly the Biggest and Best League in the world at our disposal ?

Is it because of the competitive nature of our Domestic League, killing off our clubs European ambitions ?

Is this because of the dominance of their national side over the last decade ?

Do you think if our National side was more successful our clubs would be more successful in Europe?
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Who says that England has the biggest and best league in the world? The richest, yes. But the best? Not a chance.

The Bundesliga and La Liga are way more competetive than England in my opinion.
 
Holle said:
Who says that England has the biggest and best league in the world? The richest, yes. But the best? Not a chance.

The Bundesliga and La Liga are way more competetive than England in my opinion.
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I agree. it what we get constantly rammed down our throats from the media.. Spanish and Budesliga are no way competitive, not at all..

Prem League is the Most Competitive.. Definitely.. But I think that is hindering our teams in Europe..

Big name Players want to play for the big Spanish teams, because they want to win things, and pretty much Guaranteed that.. There is no Guarantee that would happen by joining one of the big clubs in England...
 
Holle said:
Who says that England has the biggest and best league in the world? The richest, yes. But the best? Not a chance.

The Bundesliga and La Liga are way more competetive than England in my opinion.
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Yeah, the Bundesliga is really competitive, given that Bayern have won it four years in a row and 13 times in the last 20 years. It's a real lottery.

As for La Liga, another head-spinning crapshoot where anything can happen, what with the winners being either Barca or Real 15 times over the same period.
 
manwithnoname said:
Yeah, the Bundesliga is really competitive, given that Bayern have won it four years in a row and 13 times in the last 20 years. It's a real lottery.

As for La Liga, another head-spinning crapshoot where anything can happen, what with the winners being either Barca or Real 15 times over the same period.
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There are dominant teams in both of these leagues, I'll give you that.

But what I meant was that the average strength of these leagues is way better than in England, like it or not.
 
I'm not entirely sure what is meant by competitive, is it that more teams have a chance of winning the league? If so, maybe the league of Ireland is the most competitive?

I think the best judge is the country with the most amount of teams that have a realistic chance of winning European trophies, and that's definitely Spain at the minute. It was England towards the end of the last decade.
 
Holle said:
There are dominant teams in both of these leagues, I'll give you that.

But what I meant was that the average strength of these leagues is way better than in England, like it or not.
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Not they're not, in fact the exact opposite is true. The top teams in Spain and Germany are much better than the top teams in England, but the quality of teams across the whole league is much higher over here, and thats solely down to the amount of cash lower teams have available to them.

@RedNinja I don't think the fact the league is more competitive is the reason why the best clubs do so bad in Europe, it's more due to the higher amount of money spread across the premier league, smaller clubs can tell the bigger clubs to fuck off when they come sniffing around their players. Whereas in Spain and Germany, if Bayern, Madrid or Barcelona fancy a player from a lower club, the lower club often can't refuse, basically they can cherry pick their side from across the league as they have all of the money, and the other clubs don't. Rakitic and Sevilla are a good example, I know he only had 18months left on his deal, but he went to Barca for £15million after getting something ridiculous like 15 goals and 15 assists that season at Sevilla, can you ever imagine West Ham selling Payet to City for that? No chance.
 
Mystic said:
Not they're not, in fact the exact opposite is true. The top teams in Spain and Germany are much better than the top teams in England, but the quality of teams across the whole league is much higher over here, and thats solely down to the amount of cash lower teams have available to them.

@RedNinja I don't think the fact the league is more competitive is the reason why the best clubs do so bad in Europe, it's more due to the higher amount of money spread across the premier league, smaller clubs can tell the bigger clubs to fuck off when they come sniffing around their players. Whereas in Spain and Germany, if Bayern, Madrid or Barcelona fancy a player from a lower club, the lower club often can't refuse, basically they can cherry pick their side from across the league as they have all of the money, and the other clubs don't. Rakitic and Sevilla are a good example, I know he only had 18months left on his deal, but he went to Barca for £15million after getting something ridiculous like 15 goals and 15 assists that season at Sevilla, can you ever imagine West Ham selling Payet to City for that? No chance.
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Kinda of what I was getting at with competitive.. Big teams in England can no longer have the pick of the crop with players in the Premier League.. Smaller clubs are able to compete more competitively.. West ham, like you say is a cracking example with Payet.. Players who make the grade are more likely to go to big club abroad. probably attracted to the fact they can be guaranteed trophies..

Look at Leicester for Example.. Next Season they will be in the top 20 richest clubs in the world.. Mahrez ? He will be at Barca or Madrid next season..
 
RedNinja said:
Kinda of what I was getting at with competitive.. Big teams in England can no longer have the pick of the crop with players in the Premier League.. Smaller clubs are able to compete more competitively.. West ham, like you say is a cracking example with Payet.. Players who make the grade are more likely to go to big club abroad. probably attracted to the fact they can be guaranteed trophies..

Look at Leicester for Example.. Next Season they will be in the top 20 richest clubs in the world.. Mahrez ? He will be at Barca or Madrid next season..
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I think you're both sort of right. Additional (and more evenly spread) income from Premiership TV rights does allow the smaller clubs to afford bigger wages and fees than their equivalent in other leagues, but it kind of evens itself out in this league, so that the bigger, richer clubs are still able to get the "pick of the crop", even if that can quite often mean buying the wrong player at too high a price.

Because if Liverpool, Arsenal, City, United or Chelsea had really wanted N'Golo Kante they would have signed him. As for Payet, he's another who the top clubs could have signed if they wanted to, but maybe at 29, most of them didn't think it was worth it. No top player would choose to join Leicester, Everton, or West Ham if they had an offer from a bigger club, and the ones that do join, almost always use it as a stepping stone for a move after a year or two.
 
manwithnoname said:
Yeah, the Bundesliga is really competitive, given that Bayern have won it four years in a row and 13 times in the last 20 years. It's a real lottery.

As for La Liga, another head-spinning crapshoot where anything can happen, what with the winners being either Barca or Real 15 times over the same period.
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Aye and when a top player breaks through at any other club in the league they've instantly steal them.
It's a joke.
 
The Spanish tv companies do whatever Barca and Real want them to with regard payment, match times, whereas in England Sky/BT pick the times and off you go. Man City should have 100% been playing on Saturday instead of the last game Sunday. Given the difference in standard of teams in Germany and Spain, Bayern and Real/Barca can generally afford to rest players and not give full attention to a handful of fixtures and keep players fresh. The next tier Spanish teams take the Europa League a lot more seriously than English teams too. The lack of respect of it's given in England is a bit much, but given the riches of the Champions it's understandable. It just shows how football has gone that teams would rather finish fourth than win a trophy.

Also Bayern and the top Spanish teams are much better than the top English teams.
 
Aidan O' Neill said:
The Spanish tv companies do whatever Barca and Real want them to with regard payment, match times, whereas in England Sky/BT pick the times and off you go. Man City should have 100% been playing on Saturday instead of the last game Sunday. Given the difference in standard of teams in Germany and Spain, Bayern and Real/Barca can generally afford to rest players and not give full attention to a handful of fixtures and keep players fresh. The next tier Spanish teams take the Europa League a lot more seriously than English teams too. The lack of respect of it's given in England is a bit much, but given the riches of the Champions it's understandable. It just shows how football has gone that teams would rather finish fourth than win a trophy.

Also Bayern and the top Spanish teams are much better than the top English teams.
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The TV companies rule is about to change in Spain.. it will be a more even field in terms of revenue, though the higher a team finished the more TV revenue they will receive. I think this law was passed through Spanish parliament last year, though I am not entirely when its due to start...
 
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RedNinja said:
The TV companies rule is about to change in Spain.. it will be a more even field in terms of revenue, though the higher a team finished the more TV revenue they will receive. I think this law was passed through Spanish parliament last year, though I am not entirely when its due to start...
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It's already started I believe, and it does make a difference, but not a massive difference as the money is already with Barcelona and Madrid, and it'll take a long time to change that.

I believe Aidans point was more to do with how the Spanish FA helps their clubs succeed in Europe, they will change kick offs, move games, and do whatever they can to assist Spanish clubs in Europe, the success of Spanish clubs and players both domestically and abroad is 100% their main priority, as it should be. However in the UK, with the combination of the FA, Premier League and Sky, the priority is 100% the maximising the wealth potential of the league, they won't care if City play in Europe on Wednesday if they have the potential of a super Sunday show down which will be broadcast all around the world. It's the reason British clubs are so rich, but it's also the reason why, in my opinion, we'll always have a slight disadvantage in Europe.
 
Gerry_A_Trick said:
I'm not entirely sure what is meant by competitive, is it that more teams have a chance of winning the league? If so, maybe the league of Ireland is the most competitive?

I think the best judge is the country with the most amount of teams that have a realistic chance of winning European trophies, and that's definitely Spain at the minute. It was England towards the end of the last decade.
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This was exactly the way I understood it.
 
Mystic said:
Not they're not, in fact the exact opposite is true. The top teams in Spain and Germany are much better than the top teams in England, but the quality of teams across the whole league is much higher over here, and thats solely down to the amount of cash lower teams have available to them.
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As if.
 
Yeah I'm on board with Holle here overall but it's not a black and white issue

the fact that the English best sides aren't very good is why the league is seen as more competitive. So anyone can beat anyone etc.

In other leagues the better sides are ridiculously better than the rest, But the rest are really decent sides. Less standout players for them, but a lot better teamwork and work ethic.
 
Fabio said:
Yeah I'm on board with Holle here overall but it's not a black and white issue

the fact that the English best sides aren't very good is why the league is seen as more competitive. So anyone can beat anyone etc.

In other leagues the better sides are ridiculously better than the rest, But the rest are really decent sides. Less standout players for them, but a lot better teamwork and work ethic.
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Exactly.

If you look at the Bundesliga table, there are teams battling against relegation or in mid table obscurity who could quite as well be fighting for European spots.
 
manwithnoname said:
Liverpool have been doing that for fucking YEARS.
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It's spread more evenly in this league.
4 or 5 teams can battle it out.
If a top player is leaving Shalke,Bremen,Dortmund etc he's always going to Munich.
 
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They can sign young talents and let them play for their B team. The players will still be at the club and will because of that know the tactics and system much better than they would be in the PL. The reason is that the PL must loan out the players and almost all the time to a different league.

It won't take any time for a young talent to learn the system when he get promoted to the A team.

They also have much better coaches working for their youth teams. They also have referees than allow less than a PL ref do. That means that the young talents won't get injured as often as young talent in the PL.
 
How many excellent English managers can you find in the world? The answer is 0. Compare that with the many excellent Spanish managers out there. If you look at the top ten managers in the world then probably at least five is from Spain.
 
They can also more easily sign young South American talents from the South American leagues and let them play for the B or A team.
 
Arn said:
They can also more easily sign young South American talents from the South American leagues and let them play for the B or A team.
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And let us sign the shite DM's and play them in the first team... 😉
 
RedNinja said:
And let us sign the shite DM's and play them in the first team... 😉
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Ha ha 😀

You know what what I mean. If a PL club want to sign a South American talent from a South American league then the talent need to be top class or have a passport from a EU country or else the player need to be loaned out.
 
Arn said:
How many excellent English managers can you find in the world? The answer is 0. Compare that with the many excellent Spanish managers out there. If you look at the top ten managers in the world then probably at least five is from Spain.
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What? Pep and Enrique are the only two that would be in with a shout.
 
Holle said:
Exactly.

If you look at the Bundesliga table, there are teams battling against relegation or in mid table obscurity who could quite as well be fighting for European spots.
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This. Wolfsburg are 10th in the Bundesliga but got to the quarter finals in the Champions league. Sevilla are 7th in La Liga but are on course for a 3rd successive Europa League title.
West Ham and Southampton bombed out to Astra and FC Midtjylland.

Even though the budgets for clubs like Aston Villa, Sunderland and Norwich are far more superior then some of the relegation threatened teams in the Bundesliga and La Liga. I dont think they are stronger as a team than Hannover, Stuttgart, Frankfurt, Sporting Gijon, Getafe and Levante.
Spending power doesn't reflect the strength of the teams. Certainly not from an English perspective.

If goal difference was a key factor in deciding the league table, I dont think you would see these 8-0 wins from the big teams in La Liga that often. Now it doesnt matter if you have -40 goal difference as long as you have a better record over the 2 league games against the teams on the same points tally.
 
In Spain many of the clubs rest their best players when they play away against Barcelona or Real Madrid. The same happened when the bottom clubs played away against Man U when they dominated the league. This of course also mean that Man U could afford to rest a few of their best players when they played against them. Barcelona and Real Madrid the same.
 
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