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South Africa vs Australia

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Well we'll soon get to see how they go mate.

Sehwag and Dhoni have to date proven though that they are nowhere near the same players as soon as they step outside of Asia (Sehwags average drops by 20 odd runs per innings and Dhonis drops by nearly 10 runs per innings).

I see Raina has been dropped and now you'll have one of 3 new batsman who have 4 tests matches between them filling the last test spot. So jury still out on this score.

Gambhir: Despite a truly shocking tour of England, i think he's a decent player.

VVS, Sachin and Dravid: How long do you think these guys have left? All three have fantastic records, but personally i think VVS and Sachin are well past their best. Do you think they'll stick with Sachin until he gets his 100th 100 regardless of how long it takes?

Any prediction of how you'll go in OZ?
 
True, it won't be for long. But Dravid has scored 1000 runs in this calendar year. Tendulkar picks and chooses the games he plays. He sat out the west indies tour, and only played against England away and West Indies home series, and has not played ODIs at all this year after the world cup. He set a record for runs scored in a season just last year. The word is that he is contemplating retiring from the shorter form to prolong his Test career. Yes, either way it won't be more than one or at most two years of cricket for him. Dravid, i think will retire sooner. VVS has two more years. He has been scoring runs consistently. To call him "past it" is a bit harsh. They are all currently in the team based on performance, not on reputation like Ponting. I think your opinion is clouded by India's calamitous tour to England.

But i'm more than pleased with the bench strength. Raina was never a good shout for Test cricket. He doesn't have a good technique. He was only in the team because he could also function as the relief bowler. I think India have a good group of reserve batsmen in Rohit Sharma, Virat Kohli, Chet Pujara, and Ajinkya Rahane. All top class batsmen at first class level....Rohit is considered by many including Warne and Waugh as one of the most exciting young batsmen going around currently. It won't be too long before he makes a name for himself.

India is actually being served well by IPL, quite a few talents are emerging because of the tournament.
 
Rohit should get more publicity for the talent he's shown so far; hard to tell what that will translate to in the next few years but the talent is certainly there. When Sachin first hit the international scene he had two kids his own age comeing through with him; Mandreker (sp) and I can't even remember the other one's name but Tendulkar was considered inferior to both of them in technique by Indian cricket.

I'll stand by my comments on Sehwag, Dravid, VVS and Sachin; they'll make runs in Australia because they always do. The latter three have been breaking records for the last 3 years so I'm baffled why people think they're about finished. Sehwag plays too much cricket to really get in the groove for any form unless it's a major series; I think he'll be ready to go for Australia and personally don't think they'll have a problem winning their first series on Australian soil.
 
Depends on the type of wicket... I'd back India to pull it off in a bowler friendly track, but I'm not sure India have the bowling to get result on a flat track...

Yadav and ashwin are untested. I really wish they had brought irfan pathan along... He has found his swing back, and he can be lethal with the new ball and gives India the option of bowling 5 bowlers... With pathan and ashwin playing as bowling all rounders...

Vinod Kambli is the player who you are trying to remember. He was a really serious talent....... Tendulkar and Kambli grew up together playing cricket together for their school team, setting world record partnerships at that level..... Kambli was the dominant bat off the two originally. They got their chance in a tour game against. St England aged 16 and both impressed... Manjerkar was also from the same school, but a few years senior to these two...
 
I've played against Kambli in the Thames Valley cricket league, he wore more gold than B A Baracus!

When you take into account their ages and if you've watched them recently (i know they've both had good innings during this period), i don't know why it would baffle anyone to suggest that VVS and Sachin are past their bests.

Sehwag and Dhoni will 100% average less than 40 on this tour. I'd be surprised if Sachin and VVS manage it either.
 
Ya... Kambli brought bling to Indian cricket... It's a shame really, he could have been everye every bit as good as Tendulkar.

It will take a brave man to bet that Dhoni will average more than 40 in any test series.... Anywhere.... Aas things stand.

Vvs plays the same elegant self. Sachin has changed his style. He grafts a bit more...... He is not the same player who used to brutally attack bowlers in the middle of a spell.... But he is still effective.

I'm not sure really I think these two will be fine, they have always played well in Australia. It's David who has struggled in Australia. But he is in good nick going in so you never know.

I really am not sure what to expect out of Gambhir, Sehwag and Kohli....
 
After this recent Kiwi tour it'll be interesting to see what wickets the Aussies decide to prepare for you mate. If they are of the same standard i'll be expecting a very much bowler dominated series.

I would like to point out that although i think the Aussies will win this, i very much hope the Indians smash them.
 
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47481.msg1444087#msg1444087 date=1323971160]
I've played against Kambli in the Thames Valley cricket league, he wore more gold than B A Baracus!

When you take into account their ages and if you've watched them recently (i know they've both had good innings during this period), i don't know why it would baffle anyone to suggest that VVS and Sachin are past their bests.

Sehwag and Dhoni will 100% average less than 40 on this tour. I'd be surprised if Sachin and VVS manage it either.
[/quote]

I don't think it's got anything to do with arguing they're past their best - it's the implication they're somehow past it. That's a completely different perspective on a players performance; Ponting currently looks past it, Torres currently looks past it. In contrast Federer looks past his best; Drogba looks past his best; Tendulkar looks past his best but none of these individuals are past it. They're all very capable of playing effectively at the top level.
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47481.msg1443984#msg1443984 date=1323960214]
Philander with another 5 wicket haul ...

sri lanka's 1st inning 180 all out.
[/quote]

This is going to be a one sided test series i'm afraid...Sri Lanka's bowling attack is soooo impotent.

By the way i remember Kallis coming out and saying that Philander will replace Pollock as the bowling all-rounder some three four years back.

Is this the same Philander as the one playing now? cuz he seems more like a specialist bowler and the third world-class seamer that South Africa have been missing for some time now...
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=47481.msg1444258#msg1444258 date=1323995582]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47481.msg1444087#msg1444087 date=1323971160]
I've played against Kambli in the Thames Valley cricket league, he wore more gold than B A Baracus!

When you take into account their ages and if you've watched them recently (i know they've both had good innings during this period), i don't know why it would baffle anyone to suggest that VVS and Sachin are past their bests.

Sehwag and Dhoni will 100% average less than 40 on this tour. I'd be surprised if Sachin and VVS manage it either.
[/quote]

I don't think it's got anything to do with arguing they're past their best - it's the implication they're somehow past it. That's a completely different perspective on a players performance; Ponting currently looks past it, Torres currently looks past it. In contrast Federer looks past his best; Drogba looks past his best; Tendulkar looks past his best but none of these individuals are past it. They're all very capable of playing effectively at the top level.
[/quote]

To be fair...i think by "past their best", he means they are not the indomitable force that they once were. That argument is fair enough, but the fact is, they have been highly effective!

They have all started well in the tour game. Tendulkar and Laxman retired out after a strong showing. Dravid, and Gambhir looked in good knick before getting out, so did Rohit Sharma.....so things are looking good. When the batting starts working, everything else false in place for India.

Also here is a list of India's up and coming batsmen who are waiting for these guys to retire, some of their first class record is nothing short of phenomenal. This list doesn't have India's Mark Ramprakash....First-Class champ Subra Badrinath. Badri has failed every time he has been given a fleeting chance (but ya, he got the short end of the stick, cz he never got a run). So it's still not a given that all these would transfer their batting strength to Test Cricket. But the cup-board is most certainly not empty.

http://www.penandpapersports.com/document.php?docID=532
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=47481.msg1444258#msg1444258 date=1323995582]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47481.msg1444087#msg1444087 date=1323971160]
I've played against Kambli in the Thames Valley cricket league, he wore more gold than B A Baracus!

When you take into account their ages and if you've watched them recently (i know they've both had good innings during this period), i don't know why it would baffle anyone to suggest that VVS and Sachin are past their bests.

Sehwag and Dhoni will 100% average less than 40 on this tour. I'd be surprised if Sachin and VVS manage it either.
[/quote]

I don't think it's got anything to do with arguing they're past their best - it's the implication they're somehow past it. That's a completely different perspective on a players performance; Ponting currently looks past it, Torres currently looks past it. In contrast Federer looks past his best; Drogba looks past his best; Tendulkar looks past his best but none of these individuals are past it. They're all very capable of playing effectively at the top level.
[/quote]

I could be wrong but i think i've been quite clear and consistent in saying that VVS and Sachin are both 'well past their best'. Read into that what you will, but i simply mean that they are nowhere near the same players they once were.

You seem to think this Indian batting line up is the best around, how do you think they'll fare against this young Aussie attack?
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=47481.msg1444305#msg1444305 date=1324021727]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=47481.msg1444258#msg1444258 date=1323995582]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47481.msg1444087#msg1444087 date=1323971160]
I've played against Kambli in the Thames Valley cricket league, he wore more gold than B A Baracus!

When you take into account their ages and if you've watched them recently (i know they've both had good innings during this period), i don't know why it would baffle anyone to suggest that VVS and Sachin are past their bests.

Sehwag and Dhoni will 100% average less than 40 on this tour. I'd be surprised if Sachin and VVS manage it either.
[/quote]

I don't think it's got anything to do with arguing they're past their best - it's the implication they're somehow past it. That's a completely different perspective on a players performance; Ponting currently looks past it, Torres currently looks past it. In contrast Federer looks past his best; Drogba looks past his best; Tendulkar looks past his best but none of these individuals are past it. They're all very capable of playing effectively at the top level.
[/quote]

To be fair...i think by "past their best", he means they are not the indomitable force that they once were. That argument is fair enough, but the fact is, they have been highly effective!


[/quote]

Pretty much although I wouldn't go quite that far mate 😉

I do think the permanent decline is upon some of them.
 
Which part do you disagree with then? That they were once indomitable....ya there is a bit of a Hyperbole, but Tendulkar circa 1996 - 2001 was legendary stuff. I don't think any batsmen has had that kind of peak( of course you have to exclude the real outlier... Bradman in all comparisons). By the end of 2000 Sachin was averaging close to 60 in a decade where only three batsmen had 50+ average. (S. Waugh, Lara, and Tendulkar). Rahul Dravid has faced more balls than Tendulkar, inspite of scoring lesser runs - that speaks volumes about his ability to protect his Wicket. They were all champion bats in their own way.....indomitable is a bit of a hyperbole, but do allow me that freedom as i have enjoyed watching them play Cricket for what feels like ...all my life.

Ponting 2001 to 2007 comes the closest in term of matching Tendulkar's peak.
 
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47481.msg1444327#msg1444327 date=1324027101]


You seem to think this Indian batting line up is the best around, how do you think they'll fare against this young Aussie attack?
[/quote]

The thing is every body likes to criticize Indian Bowling. If they were indeed correct, then the batting must have clearly been the best around for them to stay at Number 1 rank for more than a year?

I think, they will do reasonably well. At least as well as SA, and a good deal better than how NZ have performed. They have all recovered from the World Cup Euphoria. It should be a good contest.

With the Ball is a different story. It remains to be seen if Ashwin really can replace Harbhajan. It remains to be seen if Khan can go through the series without getting injured. It remains to be seen if Yadav can fulfill his potential. Can Sharma reproduce his form from the last time he toured Australia?....lots of question...but the calming factor is that the batting unit is settled. Which wasn't the case in England. It was quite heavily unsettled.

Who do you think has the best Batting unit then? Lets say just top 7 and ignore how long the tail is......
 
Uh..oh...Kallis copped a bouncer that stayed viciously low in his ear, as he tried to get under it.

He is bleeding from the ear...
 
Haha!

As you well know a batting line up nowadays is 1 through to 11 mate! Given our viewpoints on this i think it's clear who we both regard as the number 1 batting unit.

You can't dissmiss the Indian bowling department during the period where in which India were ranked number 1 either. Quite few of the Indian bowlers performed very well back then.

Even if you look at JUST the top 7 though, Englands comes out looking very good.

2011 Test averages:

Bell: 118
Cook: 84
KP:73
Prior: 64
Strauss: 30
Morgan: 40
Trott: 41
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=47481.msg1444347#msg1444347 date=1324029750]
Which part do you disagree with then? That they were once indomitable....ya there is a bit of a Hyperbole, but Tendulkar circa 1996 - 2001 was legendary stuff. I don't think any batsmen has had that kind of peak( of course you have to exclude the real outlier... Bradman in all comparisons). By the end of 2000 Sachin was averaging close to 60 in a decade where only three batsmen had 50+ average. (S. Waugh, Lara, and Tendulkar). Rahul Dravid has faced more balls than Tendulkar, inspite of scoring lesser runs - that speaks volumes about his ability to protect his Wicket. They were all champion bats in their own way.....indomitable is a bit of a hyperbole, but do allow me that freedom as i have enjoyed watching them play Cricket for what feels like ...all my life.

Ponting 2001 to 2007 comes the closest in term of matching Tendulkar's peak.
[/quote]

If you were referring to only Sachin then i would agree with you 100%, but maybe you're going slightly ott by bringing VVS into that same 'indomitable' bracket.

VVS has a test record that many other players of his time can match or better, and imo only Sachin would make a world 11 even made up from players over just the last 10-15 years say.
 
Haha true...about our arguments being obvious!

If the argument was about most in-form batting unit, it has to be England. No questions.

If we are trying to find the better batting line up in general, capable of playing in all surfaces. I'd only take KP from that team in to the current Indian team, and Cook instead of Gambhir if you pushed me. Cook has a slightly better average than Gambhir, and he has definitely got the better technique for Test cricket, but Sehwag and Gambhir give a bit of aggression to that Indian line up and it kinda works for them, so i wouldn't be so keen on disturbing that.

I agree regarding VVS and Dravid not making world X1, i also agree it's quite a bit ott to call them indomitable....but since we are talking about age and obviously only an Indian can replace him in the team...i guess it's fair to say that.

Dravid competes for that spot with Ponting, Lara, Sangakkara and Kallis. It's pretty well contested, unfortunately for him. If this said dream match was to be held in England...i would defi take Dravid ahead of the other two. But Lara goes pretty well in England too, and he is a lefty, so i'll probably have him over the rest...overall.

Regarding VVS...he has played as a number 5 and average over 49 in his career. He won't obviously make the world X1, as you would try to fill his spot with an all-rounder like Kallis who would lose out in the battle for number 3 spot. But in his position he is one of the best. I really can't think of a number 5 who has done better than that....crap...there is one Steve Waugh!!!
 
Well as you've gathered i think Englands tail makes all of the difference mate.

I'd have it as:

Sehwag
Cook
Dravid
Sachin
Bell/VVS (i'd probably give it to Bell becuase of his age and recent form personally)
KP
Prior



Off the top of my head and without much thinking going into it, my world 7 over the last 10-15 years would be:


Hayden
Kirsten
Ponting
Sachin
Lara
Inzy/KP/Kallis
Gilly
 
The reason i said that is because your biggest gripe with Sehwag was that he doesn't travel well. Which is quite true for KP. Sehwag averages higher and at a phenomenal strike rate.

Anyway...here is my top 7, if we are looking after 90s...

Hayden
Sehwag
BCL
Tendulkar
Kallis
S.Waugh
Gilly

I really struggled to leave out Ponting...but it is what it is......so that would decorate that side with 3 lefties , 4 righties, one all rounder and two part time bowlers in Sehwag and Tendulkar.


My team will murderlize your team!
 
*Both are great players*

Looking at those stats though it states that KP has struggled against 3 sides in 10 test matches away from home, yet Sehwag has 4 countries he's poor against in 23 matches....

I think our batting line ups are probably very even mate (i'll name Inzy as my last batting choice), the 4 bowlers picked will decide this outcome imo.
 
Yes....Second place is not bad for your team though. Don't be too disheartened...You won't come up against a team that good every day.
 
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