Nigel Clough was reasonable for a time I guess, but not as good as his old man.
Sons of star footballers
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[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=43728.msg1257404#msg1257404 date=1295473078]
"Nothing to do with natural ability or genetics" is overdoing it. Practice is crucial (10,000 hours is widely said to be the amount required) but, if you don't have some talent to start with, no amount of practice will create it. You can't perfect what you don't have.
[/quote]
There have been numerous tests to disprove the above.
One notable one was a study where they pulled 3 random people off the street, gave them memory techniques, tutored them for 3 months and the worst performer was able to memorise 90 consecutive mobile phone numbers.
The guy was just a regular joe. No talent for memorising or numbers. The book I read on it is a very interesting read, where it discusses in depth that its all about training your brain and muscles (depending on the activity) to behave in an optimal way by continiously pushing yourself.
"Nothing to do with natural ability or genetics" is overdoing it. Practice is crucial (10,000 hours is widely said to be the amount required) but, if you don't have some talent to start with, no amount of practice will create it. You can't perfect what you don't have.
[/quote]
There have been numerous tests to disprove the above.
One notable one was a study where they pulled 3 random people off the street, gave them memory techniques, tutored them for 3 months and the worst performer was able to memorise 90 consecutive mobile phone numbers.
The guy was just a regular joe. No talent for memorising or numbers. The book I read on it is a very interesting read, where it discusses in depth that its all about training your brain and muscles (depending on the activity) to behave in an optimal way by continiously pushing yourself.
How good was Harry Redknapp?
Mark Hateley was better than his Dad Tony (who played briefly for us).
Jamie was better than Harry
Jack Cork will undoubtedly surpass his Dad Alan's achievements
Darren Ferguson was better than his Da although they were both shite.
There are many others too but unfortunately because their Fathers played in the lower divisions we are not as aware of them.
Frank Lampard Sr. was a very competent left back and I disagree with JJ that he was "agricultural". IMO he was tough-as-nails but good in possession and he read the game very well. That said, he was not as good as his son.
Jamie was better than Harry
Jack Cork will undoubtedly surpass his Dad Alan's achievements
Darren Ferguson was better than his Da although they were both shite.
There are many others too but unfortunately because their Fathers played in the lower divisions we are not as aware of them.
Frank Lampard Sr. was a very competent left back and I disagree with JJ that he was "agricultural". IMO he was tough-as-nails but good in possession and he read the game very well. That said, he was not as good as his son.
[quote author=localny link=topic=43728.msg1257564#msg1257564 date=1295497881]
So, my old man played in the 60's for Division 1,2 and 3 clubs. He was an Irish international. Needless to say, I didn't make it 😉
That Shadow is always too large (and I wasn't good enough!).
[/quote]
Dont tell me you're Eamon Dunphy's son
So, my old man played in the 60's for Division 1,2 and 3 clubs. He was an Irish international. Needless to say, I didn't make it 😉
That Shadow is always too large (and I wasn't good enough!).
[/quote]
Dont tell me you're Eamon Dunphy's son
Oh and the kid that we're apparently after at Southampton, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, is the son of Mark Chamberlain who was widely tipped to be a huge star in the 80's. He played 8 times for England before people realised he was shit. Hopefully his son will prove to be a better player.
It always seems that when a dad is rather unsuccessful they push their sons to work harder at it than they did, thus causing them to be better footballers. If the dad was successful, whilst the dad would still push the sons, the kids might have the attitude of "it's in my blood" to be talented and not try as hard. Hence why they're always shitter.
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43728.msg1257637#msg1257637 date=1295514395]
It always seems that when a dad is rather unsuccessful they push their sons to work harder at it than they did, thus causing them to be better footballers. If the dad was successful, whilst the dad would still push the sons, the kids might have the attitude of "it's in my blood" to be talented and not try as hard. Hence why they're always shitter.
[/quote]
Also because there are way more shit footballers than good ones there are also way more sons of shit footballers than of the successful ones.
Sons of successful players are often filthy rich too so the possible riches of professional football might not motivate them as much.
It always seems that when a dad is rather unsuccessful they push their sons to work harder at it than they did, thus causing them to be better footballers. If the dad was successful, whilst the dad would still push the sons, the kids might have the attitude of "it's in my blood" to be talented and not try as hard. Hence why they're always shitter.
[/quote]
Also because there are way more shit footballers than good ones there are also way more sons of shit footballers than of the successful ones.
Sons of successful players are often filthy rich too so the possible riches of professional football might not motivate them as much.
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=43728.msg1257645#msg1257645 date=1295514866]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43728.msg1257637#msg1257637 date=1295514395]
It always seems that when a dad is rather unsuccessful they push their sons to work harder at it than they did, thus causing them to be better footballers. If the dad was successful, whilst the dad would still push the sons, the kids might have the attitude of "it's in my blood" to be talented and not try as hard. Hence why they're always shitter.
[/quote]
Also because there are way more shit footballers than good ones there are also way more sons of shit footballers than of the successful ones.
Sons of successful players are often filthy rich too so the possible riches of professional football might not motivate them as much.
[/quote]
i wouldn't say the previous generation was filthy rich, money came into the game mainly through sky so that sent wages stupidly high. They were always paid quite well footballers, but not the exuberant levels they are today
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43728.msg1257637#msg1257637 date=1295514395]
It always seems that when a dad is rather unsuccessful they push their sons to work harder at it than they did, thus causing them to be better footballers. If the dad was successful, whilst the dad would still push the sons, the kids might have the attitude of "it's in my blood" to be talented and not try as hard. Hence why they're always shitter.
[/quote]
Also because there are way more shit footballers than good ones there are also way more sons of shit footballers than of the successful ones.
Sons of successful players are often filthy rich too so the possible riches of professional football might not motivate them as much.
[/quote]
i wouldn't say the previous generation was filthy rich, money came into the game mainly through sky so that sent wages stupidly high. They were always paid quite well footballers, but not the exuberant levels they are today
This is just pure speculation based on my experience as a kid, but I used to play and train with Paul Dalglish now and again and there was absolutely nothing that separated him from the pack in terms of skill or ability. I think it's just that when most of our gang got to 15 our dads were hassling us to do more schoolwork and get a saturday job and his dad was Kenny fucking Dalglish.
In a related point, my dad was close mates with Iain Callaghan when they were kids, and they were in the same class, same footy teams as well as both being involved in England coaching for athletics and some gymnastic stuff together. My dad told me when I was 13 and desperate to play for Liverpool that the only thing that separated Cally from the pack was that when 9 o'clock came he went to bed, he ate right, didn't start smoking when everyone else did and kept a very clear vision of what he wanted to achieve in the front of his mind - which kinda belies what he says when you see him on the dinner speaking circuit now. He wasn't born ten times better or anything.
Final point is that when Citeh signed Viera last year, he said in some interview that he asked Micah Richards what he wanted to achieve in the game, why he was there. Micah said that he wanted to become a city legend and play for England and win a world cup. When Viera stopped laughing Richards asked him what the problem was, and Viera asked if that was the case, why did he always turn up for training last and leave first?
In a related point, my dad was close mates with Iain Callaghan when they were kids, and they were in the same class, same footy teams as well as both being involved in England coaching for athletics and some gymnastic stuff together. My dad told me when I was 13 and desperate to play for Liverpool that the only thing that separated Cally from the pack was that when 9 o'clock came he went to bed, he ate right, didn't start smoking when everyone else did and kept a very clear vision of what he wanted to achieve in the front of his mind - which kinda belies what he says when you see him on the dinner speaking circuit now. He wasn't born ten times better or anything.
Final point is that when Citeh signed Viera last year, he said in some interview that he asked Micah Richards what he wanted to achieve in the game, why he was there. Micah said that he wanted to become a city legend and play for England and win a world cup. When Viera stopped laughing Richards asked him what the problem was, and Viera asked if that was the case, why did he always turn up for training last and leave first?
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43728.msg1257637#msg1257637 date=1295514395]
It always seems that when a dad is rather unsuccessful they push their sons to work harder at it than they did, thus causing them to be better footballers. If the dad was successful, whilst the dad would still push the sons, the kids might have the attitude of "it's in my blood" to be talented and not try as hard. Hence why they're always shitter.
[/quote]
That's a pretty good assessment right there.
From what I've seen that's exactly how it is (baring the odd exception of course).
Finn Laudrup - a seriously gifted footballer who could've made it to the very top but as he wasn't quite wanting it enough nor ready to put in the efforts, he never really justified his major talent.
His two sons however, Brian and his first born Michael, enherited his skills (although some claim Finn on his day was a better dribler than both of them) but also the aqcuired determination and willingness to do all the hard work as well - and they became rather splendid and succesful players themselves.
Their kids, Mark, Mads and Andreas, hasn't exactly managed to build on their fathers success and although the youngest of the three, Andreas, is probably going to have a decent career as a gifted winger everything points to the fact it's going to be nowhere near the one of his father (Michael). Mads, also Michaels, is a completely different footballer actually, hard-working, tough-tackling, industrious midfielder.
It always seems that when a dad is rather unsuccessful they push their sons to work harder at it than they did, thus causing them to be better footballers. If the dad was successful, whilst the dad would still push the sons, the kids might have the attitude of "it's in my blood" to be talented and not try as hard. Hence why they're always shitter.
[/quote]
That's a pretty good assessment right there.
From what I've seen that's exactly how it is (baring the odd exception of course).
Finn Laudrup - a seriously gifted footballer who could've made it to the very top but as he wasn't quite wanting it enough nor ready to put in the efforts, he never really justified his major talent.
His two sons however, Brian and his first born Michael, enherited his skills (although some claim Finn on his day was a better dribler than both of them) but also the aqcuired determination and willingness to do all the hard work as well - and they became rather splendid and succesful players themselves.
Their kids, Mark, Mads and Andreas, hasn't exactly managed to build on their fathers success and although the youngest of the three, Andreas, is probably going to have a decent career as a gifted winger everything points to the fact it's going to be nowhere near the one of his father (Michael). Mads, also Michaels, is a completely different footballer actually, hard-working, tough-tackling, industrious midfielder.
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=Krump link=topic=43728.msg1257662#msg1257662 date=1295516716]
This is just pure speculation based on my experience as a kid, but I used to play and train with Paul Dalglish now and again and there was absolutely nothing that separated him from the pack in terms of skill or ability. I think it's just that when most of our gang got to 15 our dads were hassling us to do more schoolwork and get a saturday job and his dad was Kenny fucking Dalglish.
In a related point, my dad was close mates with Iain Callaghan when they were kids, and they were in the same class, same footy teams as well as both being involved in England coaching for athletics and some gymnastic stuff together. My dad told me when I was 13 and desperate to play for Liverpool that the only thing that separated Cally from the pack was that when 9 o'clock came he went to bed, he ate right, didn't start smoking when everyone else did and kept a very clear vision of what he wanted to achieve in the front of his mind - which kinda belies what he says when you see him on the dinner speaking circuit now. He wasn't born ten times better or anything.
Final point is that when Citeh signed Viera last year, he said in some interview that he asked Micah Richards what he wanted to achieve in the game, why he was there. Micah said that he wanted to become a city legend and play for England and win a world cup. When Viera stopped laughing Richards asked him what the problem was, and Viera asked if that was the case, why did he always turn up for training last and leave first?
[/quote]
More splendid points.
One of the most gifted footballers I've ever seen in action, Brian Laudrup, when asked why he became such a good footballer.
- 5% talent and 95% hard work, he replied.
This is just pure speculation based on my experience as a kid, but I used to play and train with Paul Dalglish now and again and there was absolutely nothing that separated him from the pack in terms of skill or ability. I think it's just that when most of our gang got to 15 our dads were hassling us to do more schoolwork and get a saturday job and his dad was Kenny fucking Dalglish.
In a related point, my dad was close mates with Iain Callaghan when they were kids, and they were in the same class, same footy teams as well as both being involved in England coaching for athletics and some gymnastic stuff together. My dad told me when I was 13 and desperate to play for Liverpool that the only thing that separated Cally from the pack was that when 9 o'clock came he went to bed, he ate right, didn't start smoking when everyone else did and kept a very clear vision of what he wanted to achieve in the front of his mind - which kinda belies what he says when you see him on the dinner speaking circuit now. He wasn't born ten times better or anything.
Final point is that when Citeh signed Viera last year, he said in some interview that he asked Micah Richards what he wanted to achieve in the game, why he was there. Micah said that he wanted to become a city legend and play for England and win a world cup. When Viera stopped laughing Richards asked him what the problem was, and Viera asked if that was the case, why did he always turn up for training last and leave first?
[/quote]
More splendid points.
One of the most gifted footballers I've ever seen in action, Brian Laudrup, when asked why he became such a good footballer.
- 5% talent and 95% hard work, he replied.
Alex Ferguson was a better player than Darren. He was top scorer in the Scottish league several times and won trophies with teams including Rangers. He was forced out of Rangers because he was held accountable for a goal scored by Celtic in a cup final or something, and the manager/ crowd turned on him. The manager played him with the boys thereafter until he moved on. He wasn't the best player to lace boots but he wasn't shite by any means. Darren was a proper meh journeyman.
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43728.msg1257656#msg1257656 date=1295516040]
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=43728.msg1257645#msg1257645 date=1295514866]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43728.msg1257637#msg1257637 date=1295514395]
It always seems that when a dad is rather unsuccessful they push their sons to work harder at it than they did, thus causing them to be better footballers. If the dad was successful, whilst the dad would still push the sons, the kids might have the attitude of "it's in my blood" to be talented and not try as hard. Hence why they're always shitter.
[/quote]
Also because there are way more shit footballers than good ones there are also way more sons of shit footballers than of the successful ones.
Sons of successful players are often filthy rich too so the possible riches of professional football might not motivate them as much.
[/quote]
i wouldn't say the previous generation was filthy rich, money came into the game mainly through sky so that sent wages stupidly high. They were always paid quite well footballers, but not the exuberant levels they are today
[/quote]
True. My first point was the one I think it's mostly about anyway.
Having a gifted couple of years older brother is probably a better help than a famous father.
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=43728.msg1257645#msg1257645 date=1295514866]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43728.msg1257637#msg1257637 date=1295514395]
It always seems that when a dad is rather unsuccessful they push their sons to work harder at it than they did, thus causing them to be better footballers. If the dad was successful, whilst the dad would still push the sons, the kids might have the attitude of "it's in my blood" to be talented and not try as hard. Hence why they're always shitter.
[/quote]
Also because there are way more shit footballers than good ones there are also way more sons of shit footballers than of the successful ones.
Sons of successful players are often filthy rich too so the possible riches of professional football might not motivate them as much.
[/quote]
i wouldn't say the previous generation was filthy rich, money came into the game mainly through sky so that sent wages stupidly high. They were always paid quite well footballers, but not the exuberant levels they are today
[/quote]
True. My first point was the one I think it's mostly about anyway.
Having a gifted couple of years older brother is probably a better help than a famous father.
Wayne is Mickey Rooney's son, altho he looks older than his Dad.
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=43728.msg1257777#msg1257777 date=1295523878]
Alex Ferguson was a better player than Darren. He was top scorer in the Scottish league several times and won trophies with teams including Rangers. He was forced out of Rangers because he was held accountable for a goal scored by Celtic in a cup final or something, and the manager/ crowd turned on him. The manager played him with the boys thereafter until he moved on. He wasn't the best player to lace boots but he wasn't shite by any means. Darren was a proper meh journeyman.
[/quote]
I heard he was also forced out because he married a catholic which in those days was not the done thing.
Alex Ferguson was a better player than Darren. He was top scorer in the Scottish league several times and won trophies with teams including Rangers. He was forced out of Rangers because he was held accountable for a goal scored by Celtic in a cup final or something, and the manager/ crowd turned on him. The manager played him with the boys thereafter until he moved on. He wasn't the best player to lace boots but he wasn't shite by any means. Darren was a proper meh journeyman.
[/quote]
I heard he was also forced out because he married a catholic which in those days was not the done thing.
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=43728.msg1257845#msg1257845 date=1295528764]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=43728.msg1257777#msg1257777 date=1295523878]
Alex Ferguson was a better player than Darren. He was top scorer in the Scottish league several times and won trophies with teams including Rangers. He was forced out of Rangers because he was held accountable for a goal scored by Celtic in a cup final or something, and the manager/ crowd turned on him. The manager played him with the boys thereafter until he moved on. He wasn't the best player to lace boots but he wasn't shite by any means. Darren was a proper meh journeyman.
[/quote]
I heard he was also forced out because he married a catholic which in those days was not the done thing.
[/quote]
That's a bs rumour Spion. He was married to a catholic before he joined Rangers, and everybody knew that. He denies it in his autobiography appaz.
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=43728.msg1257777#msg1257777 date=1295523878]
Alex Ferguson was a better player than Darren. He was top scorer in the Scottish league several times and won trophies with teams including Rangers. He was forced out of Rangers because he was held accountable for a goal scored by Celtic in a cup final or something, and the manager/ crowd turned on him. The manager played him with the boys thereafter until he moved on. He wasn't the best player to lace boots but he wasn't shite by any means. Darren was a proper meh journeyman.
[/quote]
I heard he was also forced out because he married a catholic which in those days was not the done thing.
[/quote]
That's a bs rumour Spion. He was married to a catholic before he joined Rangers, and everybody knew that. He denies it in his autobiography appaz.
[quote author=Brizzle link=topic=43728.msg1257866#msg1257866 date=1295530362]
I saw a cameo appearance from Steve Bruce's son (alex?) when i went to a chelsea vs birmingham game. He was pump. One of those cases where if his dad wasn't the manager, he wouldn't have been anywhere near the team
[/quote]
He was playing for Leeds last night
I saw a cameo appearance from Steve Bruce's son (alex?) when i went to a chelsea vs birmingham game. He was pump. One of those cases where if his dad wasn't the manager, he wouldn't have been anywhere near the team
[/quote]
He was playing for Leeds last night
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=43728.msg1257630#msg1257630 date=1295513724]
[quote author=localny link=topic=43728.msg1257564#msg1257564 date=1295497881]
So, my old man played in the 60's for Division 1,2 and 3 clubs. He was an Irish international. Needless to say, I didn't make it 😉
That Shadow is always too large (and I wasn't good enough!).
[/quote]
Dont tell me you're Eamon Dunphy's son
[/quote]
Naah although the father played for DRUMS as well. Dad was lesser known..
[quote author=localny link=topic=43728.msg1257564#msg1257564 date=1295497881]
So, my old man played in the 60's for Division 1,2 and 3 clubs. He was an Irish international. Needless to say, I didn't make it 😉
That Shadow is always too large (and I wasn't good enough!).
[/quote]
Dont tell me you're Eamon Dunphy's son
[/quote]
Naah although the father played for DRUMS as well. Dad was lesser known..
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=43728.msg1257424#msg1257424 date=1295474037]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=43728.msg1257421#msg1257421 date=1295473928]
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=43728.msg1257416#msg1257416 date=1295473735]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=43728.msg1257410#msg1257410 date=1295473434]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=43728.msg1257406#msg1257406 date=1295473157]
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=43728.msg1257405#msg1257405 date=1295473090]
Football is the hardest sport in the world to get to the very top. Theres just a ridiculous amount of competition for every single place. Even if you have the perfect genes it still takes an enormous amount of hard work, right decisions and most of all luck.
[/quote]
I dunno if that is true in the US -
[/quote]
True. For instance there are numerous hockey families with famous fathers and sons.
[/quote]
But you can't really compare a mickey mouse sport like hockey to football. The smaller the sport the more of these family dynasties there probably are.
[/quote]
I wouldn't call hockey a mickey mouse sport, well compared to football it is. But it's like the third largest sport in the world isn't it.
1. Football
2. Basketball
3. Hockey?
[/quote]
3rd largest in the world??? There are like 6 or 7 countries where it's really popular! Just because it's a big money sport in US and Canada doesn't make it a big sport worldwide.
[/quote]
Norway and Russia. There are plenty of people playing hockey around the world.
You're 800 times more likely to become a MLB player if your father was one.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=43728.msg1257421#msg1257421 date=1295473928]
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=43728.msg1257416#msg1257416 date=1295473735]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=43728.msg1257410#msg1257410 date=1295473434]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=43728.msg1257406#msg1257406 date=1295473157]
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=43728.msg1257405#msg1257405 date=1295473090]
Football is the hardest sport in the world to get to the very top. Theres just a ridiculous amount of competition for every single place. Even if you have the perfect genes it still takes an enormous amount of hard work, right decisions and most of all luck.
[/quote]
I dunno if that is true in the US -
[/quote]
True. For instance there are numerous hockey families with famous fathers and sons.
[/quote]
But you can't really compare a mickey mouse sport like hockey to football. The smaller the sport the more of these family dynasties there probably are.
[/quote]
I wouldn't call hockey a mickey mouse sport, well compared to football it is. But it's like the third largest sport in the world isn't it.
1. Football
2. Basketball
3. Hockey?
[/quote]
3rd largest in the world??? There are like 6 or 7 countries where it's really popular! Just because it's a big money sport in US and Canada doesn't make it a big sport worldwide.
[/quote]
Norway and Russia. There are plenty of people playing hockey around the world.
You're 800 times more likely to become a MLB player if your father was one.
T
the_khl
Guest
Although easily my favourite at the Olympics Icehockey is hardly the third biggest sport in the world is it?
Although I must admit I find it hard to find that many sports that's supposedly bigger?
Football
Golf
Cycling
Tennis
Icehockey
And then there's sports such as Cricket and Handball who are extremely popular but only in few selected countries around the world.
Perhaps?
Although I must admit I find it hard to find that many sports that's supposedly bigger?
Football
Golf
Cycling
Tennis
Icehockey
And then there's sports such as Cricket and Handball who are extremely popular but only in few selected countries around the world.
Perhaps?
[quote author=KHL link=topic=43728.msg1258364#msg1258364 date=1295607086]
Although easily my favourite at the Olympics Icehockey is hardly the third biggest sport in the world is it?
Although I must admit I find it hard to find that many sports that's supposedly bigger?
Football
Golf
Cycling
Tennis
Icehockey
And then there's sports such as Cricket and Handball who are extremely popular but only in few selected countries around the world.
Perhaps?
[/quote]
Apparently the list looks like this.
1. Football
2. Cricket
3. Basketball
4. Baseball
5. Rugby Union
6. Field Hockey
7. Volleyball
8. Ice Hockey
9. American Football
10. Rugby League
Although easily my favourite at the Olympics Icehockey is hardly the third biggest sport in the world is it?
Although I must admit I find it hard to find that many sports that's supposedly bigger?
Football
Golf
Cycling
Tennis
Icehockey
And then there's sports such as Cricket and Handball who are extremely popular but only in few selected countries around the world.
Perhaps?
[/quote]
Apparently the list looks like this.
1. Football
2. Cricket
3. Basketball
4. Baseball
5. Rugby Union
6. Field Hockey
7. Volleyball
8. Ice Hockey
9. American Football
10. Rugby League
- Status