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So ... Managers

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dee

Part of the Furniture
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David Moyes, Steve Mclaren and Nigel Clough. Good examples of managers that make a difference year after year at one club and then can't seem to repeat it elsewhere.

Is Rosco right and manager's make no differnce? How do we rate managers like Moyes et al that can't reproduce impressive performances elsewhere?
 
For all the disdain (from myself included) about the Ranieri sacking, it's hard to argue with the decision now. It's clear his changes in style from last seasons success were holding then back. Something a bloke who has never managed before was able to spot and rectify. In someways it mirrors the Pearson sacking at Southampton when replaced by Pochettino. I suppose the point I'm making is chairmen can make extremely unpopular decisions at the time which turn out to be in the best interests of the club. I don't think that's something the media are overly keen to acknowledge.
 
David Moyes, Steve Mclaren and Nigel Clough. Good examples of managers that make a difference year after year at one club and then can't seem to repeat it elsewhere.

Is Rosco right and manager's make no differnce? How do we rate managers like Moyes et al that can't reproduce impressive performances elsewhere?

The truth is that there are very few elite level managers who have consistently delivered success and can make a genuine, positive and sustained difference.
And there's a few very good managers and coaches who are almost always in demand because they are good at their job.

95% of managers are totally fucking mediocre and make little or no difference at all, and are easily interchangeable. Which is part of the reason they keep getting eachother's jobs on a cyclical basis.
 
David Moyes, Steve Mclaren and Nigel Clough. Good examples of managers that make a difference year after year at one club and then can't seem to repeat it elsewhere.

Is Rosco right and manager's make no differnce? How do we rate managers like Moyes et al that can't reproduce impressive performances elsewhere?

You lost me at 'Is Rosco right?'
 
When Marco Silva was named Hull City manager in January, the consensus was that the Portuguese had been extremely lucky to be given a chance to manage in the Premier League. Three months later, Hull will be fortunate to hang on to him.
Hull had made so many mistakes since promotion from the Championship, that glorious day in May last year when Steve Bruce, the most successful manager in the club’s history, returned them to the top flight, that the appointment of Silva was dismissed as another one.
According to Sky Sports pundits Paul Merson and Phil Thompson, Silva’s arrival was an insult to all the hard-working British managerswho had done their time in the lower leagues.


He had no understanding of English football or Hull as a city or a football club. It was a disappointment that was mocked and derided in equal measure and the Allam family, who had decided to sack Mike Phelan to bring the 39-year-old to England, had made another terrible blunder. At best, Silva’s arrival provoked a shrug of ambivalence. At worst, it generated anger and spite.
There was an element of ignorance in the reaction; a mixture of Little Englander xenophobia combined with a lack of awareness of events in the relatively minor leagues of Portugal and Greece where Silva made his name with Estoril, Sporting Lisbon and Olympiakos.
In some respects, they were right, but the only mistake Hull made was in only given Silva a six-month contract, because the 39 year-old has become one of the most coveted coaches in Europe, making a spectacular impression at the bottom of the Premier League.

With West Ham potentially searching for a new manager in the summer, Silva has plenty of admirers who could tempt him not to sign an extension in Yorkshire.

Certainly, there will be plenty of focus on him between now and May. Hull had looked doomed to relegation ever since Bruce left. The lack of investment in the squad in the summer compounded by the sale of two of their best players in January, midfielder Jake Livermore to West Brom and winger Robert Snodgrass to West Ham.
The appointment of Silva coincided with their departures. He looked like a patsy, a fall guy, grateful for the job, even if he did not have the tools needed to avoid an immediate return to the Championship.
Hull were bottom of the table when Silva took charge, but Wednesday night’s 4-2 win over Middlesbrough, the team directly below them in the table, lifted them out of the bottom three.


The Tigers have not lost a home game under Silva – he has not lost a home game in 40 attempts as a manager at Estoril, Sporting Lisbon and Olympiakos – and out-classed Boro. Forced to make loan signings in January rather than permanent deals, Silva is getting far more out of players like Everton flop Oumar Niasse and Liverpool outcast Lazar Markovic than their parent clubs ever managed. He is plotting an escape route with rogues and misfits.
As for Harry Maguire and Andrew Robertson, the two young defenders who have blossomed this year, they are attracting interest from a host of rival clubs. Maguire, signed by Bruce from Sheffield United, was lucky to get a game under Phelan. He was captain on Wednesday night.

We have been surprised by Silva. There are those who will claim they always knew he would succeed, but in truth, nobody saw this happening.
Hull were not supposed to stay up, but they have an excellent chance to do so now. The credit for that has to go to the young man in the dugout.
JS117858345_Rex-Features_Football-Premier-League-2016-17-Hull-City-v-AFC-Bournemouth-KC-Stadium-We-large_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqrQxcDHqZ1D9rc51SGqPCxpyY6S33hZr6RhO2SFR3q7g.jpg

Marco Silva could lead Hull to safety CREDIT: REX FEATURES
There are comparisons to be made with another young foreign manager who came to this country, surfing a wave of outrage, landing on these shores, greeted by critics with sharpened knives.
When Mauricio Pochettino replaced the popular Nigel Adkins at Southampton in 2014, English football reacted in a similar way, but rapidly backtracked, the insults and barbs traded for praise and superlatives. There were pats on the back rather than knife wounds.
Southampton pulled off a masterstroke in attracting the former Espanyol boss, but could not hold on to the Argentinian once English football realised its ignorance.
Tottenham pounced and are enjoying their most successful period in the Premier League era. Pochettino, meanwhile, has been linked with the Barcelona job and will surely be on Real Madrid’s radar.
He has not won a trophy yet at Spurs, but has got them closer to winning the league than anyone has managed for 30 years.
Silva is not at that level yet, but he seems to be on the same career trajectory. Whatever happens to Hull at the end of the season, their young manager looks destined for bigger and better things.
 
According to Sky Sports pundits Paul Merson and Phil Thompson, Silva’s arrival was an insult to all the hard-working British managerswho had done their time in the lower leagues.

He had no understanding of English football or Hull as a city or a football club. It was a disappointment that was mocked and derided in equal measure and the Allam family, who had decided to sack Mike Phelan to bring the 39-year-old to England, had made another terrible blunder. At best, Silva’s arrival provoked a shrug of ambivalence. At worst, it generated anger and spite.

There was an element of ignorance in the reaction; a mixture of Little Englander xenophobia combined with a lack of awareness of events in the relatively minor leagues of Portugal and Greece where Silva made his name with Estoril, Sporting Lisbon and Olympiakos.

In some respects, they were right, but the only mistake Hull made was in only given Silva a six-month contract, because the 39 year-old has become one of the most coveted coaches in Europe, making a spectacular impression at the bottom of the Premier League.

Wouldn't it be nice if Hull stays up? 😀
 
Every manager has their style of football they want to implement...they need to players to achieve that success, if starting from scratch at a poorly run club then it takes years to fulfil which in the modern day you don't get.

So what makes a manager great? is it the number of awards and trophies they win?....what about the managers that don't get a chance with the big clubs? how are they judged?
 
Wouldn't it be nice if Hull stays up? 😀

Is there a follow up where the same two pundits, Merson and Phil Thompson is asked to eat their own words? Would love to see it. Their ignorance and arrogance is pretty alarming to say the least.
 
Thommo at least has the excuse that he's just not very bright. It's impossible to tell with Merson because he alternately pickled his brain in booze and fried it in drugs for years. It was said that he'd stopped but some of his recent "appearances", like this one, give the uncomfortable impression that he's fallen back off the wagon.
 
Do we really need to ask whether managers make a difference or not? Two words.

Roy

Hodgson

*shudders*
 
On the whole, money is a bigger influence on results than a manager but, yeah, managers do make a difference. An abundance of evidence in that regard.
 
Thommo at least has the excuse that he's just not very bright. It's impossible to tell with Merson because he alternately pickled his brain in booze and fried it in drugs for years. It was said that he'd stopped but some of his recent "appearances", like this one, give the uncomfortable impression that he's fallen back off the wagon.

I think it's very possible to tell that Paul Merson is genuinely stupid
 
Is there a follow up where the same two pundits, Merson and Phil Thompson is asked to eat their own words? Would love to see it. Their ignorance and arrogance is pretty alarming to say the least.

Yeah, no foreign manager has ever failed in this country
 
Every manager has their style of football they want to implement...they need to players to achieve that success, if starting from scratch at a poorly run club then it takes years to fulfil which in the modern day you don't get.

So what makes a manager great? is it the number of awards and trophies they win?....what about the managers that don't get a chance with the big clubs? how are they judged?

It's a good point, but usually a manager who has shown quality and skill in his profession will, sooner or later, get a chance at a club that actually can win trophies.

And that's the test. But yeah, maybe the opportunities aren't as frequent.

It's easy to mock Allardyce, with his infamous quotes about being able to manage Real Madrid, and "Sam Allardici" and all that, but there is a point in there that foreign coaches are viewed as more exotic, better and more desirable, and a manager like him wouldn't get a chance at one of the more glamorous big clubs.

I think the truth is that managers - regardless of nationality - are all pretty mediocre, but if you look at the last 20 years or so, the most successful club managers here and abroad (where there aren't any British managers) are all Spanish, German, Italian, Portuguese, French, Dutch.

Only Ferguson has bucked that trend. And of the current crop of talent, arguably Brendan Rodgers is the most successful and highly-rated. There aren't many others.
 
Yeah, no foreign manager has ever failed in this country
What has that got to do with anything?

Have you seen the clip? I mean if you tear into someone like they do, without probably knowing anything about the manager as well as ridiculing the club appointing him and history then goes on to show that you were indeed very wrong it would just be nice to hear their thoughts on the matter afterwards, in hindsight.

It's something I would often like to hear when it comes to so called pundits and experts that's been talking out their arse.
 
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