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So are we going to be in the CL next season?

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[quote author=Brendan link=topic=37728.msg1008202#msg1008202 date=1260190908]
WE'RE ONLY 3 POINTS OFF BRUM KEN AND IT'S A NIGHTMARE IT'S JUST SHIT FUCKING CAN'T BELIEVE IT.

How ould you describe it?

"Great"?
"Good enough"?

We're seventh. We're out of Europe. We're out of the title race. We're three points ahead of fucking Birmingham. We've lost 8 games already and it's December.
[/quote]

Saved me the bother, but hang on we are 3 points off 4th. Off Fucking fourth.

We were winning the bloody thing last season. So that would have been 3 points clear of 2nd.

Jesus Christ.
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=37728.msg1008230#msg1008230 date=1260191848]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=37728.msg1008206#msg1008206 date=1260191087]
we gave gh another season when he failed to make top 4, will be interesting to see if rafa is given another season if we fail to make top four.
[/quote]

If he fails to get fourth I don't think he'll be gone; It would take something very unusual for him to be removed and I can't see it happening. Besdies that what would be the point - I haven't seen anyone out there who is going to be available and an improvement. I don't see the point - no matter how frustrating some of his decisions - in paying out 10m + for no improvement.
[/quote]

You really don't think another coach couldn't get more out of squad and set up?
 
[quote author=Juanito link=topic=37728.msg1008464#msg1008464 date=1260219003]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37728.msg1007850#msg1007850 date=1260146843]

Our best 11 in terms of players (not Rafa's which includes Lucas) is but I don't think we will see it enough to make it.

[/quote]

You think Rafa prefers Lucas to either Mascherano or Aquilani??
[/quote]

The man himself said we know have a great balance in midfield minus Aquaman.
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37728.msg1008574#msg1008574 date=1260224693]


The man himself said we know have a great balance in midfield minus Aquaman.
[/quote]

That doesn't tell us if he prefers Lucas to Aquilani. I think it's pretty obvious that when fit , Aquilani will be first choice alongside Mascherano.

As for your other question, what could any other manager have done differently considering the lack of investment and injuries the team has had this year??
 
[quote author=Juanito link=topic=37728.msg1008580#msg1008580 date=1260225512]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37728.msg1008574#msg1008574 date=1260224693]


The man himself said we know have a great balance in midfield minus Aquaman.
[/quote]

That doesn't tell us if he prefers Lucas to Aquilani. I think it's pretty obvious that when fit , Aquilani will be first choice alongside Mascherano.

As for your other question, what could any other manager have done differently considering the lack of investment and injuries the team has had this year??
[/quote]

I don't think its obvious at all but I hope you are right.

The manager could have spent the 17M on a player that would have come into the side straight away not halfway through the season.

The manager could have changed formation when its blindingly obvious this one doesn't work without Alonso pulling the strings and Gerrard and Torres off one another.

The manager could have played Yossi in the hole (his best position). He's the only player playing at his best this year.

The manager could have moved Stevie back into the middle to get the team moving.

And it goes on and on......
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37728.msg1008602#msg1008602 date=1260226459]


I don't think its obvious at all but I hope you are right.

The manager could have spent the 17M on a player that would have come into the side straight away not halfway through the season.

The manager could have changed formation when its blindingly obvious this one doesn't work without Alonso pulling the strings and Gerrard and Torres off one another.

The manager could have played Yossi in the hole (his best position). He's the only player playing at his best this year.

The manager could have moved Stevie back into the middle to get the team moving.

And it goes on and on......
[/quote]

I think when a manager takes a gamble on an injured player by spending 20 million Euros on him then that gives some indication on how highly he values said player.

We've scored more goals at this point this season than we did last year but we've also conceded 12 more goals at this stage compared to last season. I'd put that down to Johnson, Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio, Carra all being injured or suspended at some point or another, we just haven't had a settled defence from the word go and i'm not sure how a change of formation would have helped that.

Gerrard, when he's been fit, has played a more central role a number of times this season with Kuyt in behind Torres. When Gerrard, Yossi and Kuyt have all been fit we've seen them play with a fluidity, Yossi doesn't play as an orthodox winger a lot of the time and likes to cut in and has the freedom to link up with Torres and Gerrard. His best performances for us have come from either starting on the left or right with the freedom to roam and switch positions.

I agree that the Mascherano/Lucas partnership doesn't offer us the best balance but injuries have impacted greatly on the options the manager has had so far this season.
 
It really fucks me off when I leave all these juicy bait-posts lying about for O'Hare and all I get is a desultory nibble

I'm not going to bother in future
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=37728.msg1008628#msg1008628 date=1260227421]
It really fucks me off when I leave all these juicy bait-posts lying about for O'Hare and all I get is a desultory nibble

I'm not going to bother in future
[/quote]

no we won't be in the champions league next year
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37728.msg1008571#msg1008571 date=1260224561]
Saved me the bother, but hang on we are 3 points off 4th. Off Fucking fourth.

We were winning the bloody thing last season. So that would have been 3 points clear of 2nd.

Jesus Christ.
[/quote]

Do you think there is one poster on this site who isn't utterly fed up and pissed off about things?

Focusing on how we're only a few points away from Shit Team X or Shit Team Y is fine and dandy but when your thread title is "So are we going to be in the CL next season", it's a little bit neglectful (or purposeful in your case) to not mention that we're also a mere three points off 4th place as well despite our woeful form - the league is really tight this year.

Maybe you should rename your thread to "We were winning the bloody thing last season. Jesus Christ. This is shit" if that's all you really want to go on about.
 
there are three teams ahead of us in this race. it's doesn't matter how many points behind we are, we just need to pick up more points than them. ok man city might do worse than us. villa might. spurs might they were shit last year. but ALL three??? the truth is one of them is likely to finish above us. thats the way things work when your results are unpredictable and you rely on luck
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=37728.msg1008637#msg1008637 date=1260227743]
Maybe you should rename your username to "We were winning the bloody thing last season. Jesus Christ. This is shit" if that's all you really want to go on about.
[/quote]
 
[quote author=Juanito link=topic=37728.msg1008624#msg1008624 date=1260227236]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37728.msg1008602#msg1008602 date=1260226459]


I don't think its obvious at all but I hope you are right.

The manager could have spent the 17M on a player that would have come into the side straight away not halfway through the season.

The manager could have changed formation when its blindingly obvious this one doesn't work without Alonso pulling the strings and Gerrard and Torres off one another.

The manager could have played Yossi in the hole (his best position). He's the only player playing at his best this year.

The manager could have moved Stevie back into the middle to get the team moving.

And it goes on and on......
[/quote]

I think when a manager takes a gamble on an injured player by spending 20 million Euros on him then that gives some indication on how highly he values said player.

We've scored more goals at this point this season than we did last year but we've also conceded 12 more goals at this stage compared to last season. I'd put that down to Johnson, Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio, Carra all being injured or suspended at some point or another, we just haven't had a settled defence from the word go and i'm not sure how a change of formation would have helped that.

Gerrard, when he's been fit, has played a more central role a number of times this season with Kuyt in behind Torres. When Gerrard, Yossi and Kuyt have all been fit we've seen them play with a fluidity, Yossi doesn't play as an orthodox winger a lot of the time and likes to cut in and has the freedom to link up with Torres and Gerrard. His best performances for us have come from either starting on the left or right with the freedom to roam and switch positions.

I agree that the Mascherano/Lucas partnership doesn't offer us the best balance but injuries have impacted greatly on the options the manager has had so far this season.
[/quote]

Nice post.

However I must disagree on Yossi, He scored a hat trick from behind Torres this year and also started there against Utd at home where he created the breakthrough goal. He does like to drift in but this causes to become very narrow and predictable when he does.

I'd much prefer from day one if we had played Gerrard and Masher/Lucas depending on masher's fitness with Yossi in the hole behind Torres/Kuyt again depending on fitness.

Then he could have had Aurelio, Babel Reira outwide. That team would have been alot more stable and controlled alot more games.

Yes we have conceded more and not having a settled defence has been a major factor but I think our midfield getting overrun by any team with attacking midfielders with pace has shown where our true weakness has been.

Zonal marking as per has not helped either.

Rafa has been unlucky with injuries but I think his stubborness with certain players and formations have had just a big a part to play in our current situation.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=37728.msg1008637#msg1008637 date=1260227743]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37728.msg1008571#msg1008571 date=1260224561]
Saved me the bother, but hang on we are 3 points off 4th. Off Fucking fourth.

We were winning the bloody thing last season. So that would have been 3 points clear of 2nd.

Jesus Christ.
[/quote]

Do you think there is one poster on this site who isn't utterly fed up and pissed off about things?

Focusing on how we're only a few points away from Shit Team X or Shit Team Y is fine and dandy but when your thread title is "So are we going to be in the CL next season", it's a little bit neglectful (or purposeful in your case) to not mention that we're also a mere three points off 4th place as well despite our woeful form - the league is really tight this year.

Maybe you should rename your thread to "We were winning the bloody thing last season. Jesus Christ. This is shit" if that's all you really want to go on about.
[/quote]

You are right.
Back to the race for fourth. City are a point ahead with a game in hand so instead of saying we are 3 off 4th I would look at like we are 3 teams away from fourth and with Arsenal to come I can only see us falling further behind. If we are not careful we are going to leave ourselves to much to do.
 
I've been too disgusted with our performances to look at anything football related other than this forum so when I did happen to see the table the other day, I was quite surprised that although it feels as though all is lost, we're not actually *that* far off.

I'm not as confident as some about our prospects of finishing this season on a high - I think Fark said it perfectly earlier in this thread or another - however the fact that we're not further behind after a truly mind-boggling few months of shitness does provide a reasonable enough foundation for a bit of hope.
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37728.msg1008571#msg1008571 date=1260224561]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=37728.msg1008202#msg1008202 date=1260190908]
WE'RE ONLY 3 POINTS OFF BRUM KEN AND IT'S A NIGHTMARE IT'S JUST SHIT FUCKING CAN'T BELIEVE IT.

How ould you describe it?

"Great"?
"Good enough"?

We're seventh. We're out of Europe. We're out of the title race. We're three points ahead of fucking Birmingham. We've lost 8 games already and it's December.
[/quote]

Saved me the bother, but hang on we are 3 points off 4th. Off Fucking fourth.

We were winning the bloody thing last season. So that would have been 3 points clear of 2nd.

Jesus Christ.
[/quote]

No it didn't "save you the bother", it gave you some half-related 'out' that you'll gladly throw your fucking flailing point to. As per fucking usual.

What's your thread title Dream?
What was my response in relation to?

Good.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=37728.msg1008713#msg1008713 date=1260234028]
I've been too disgusted with our performances to look at anything football related other than this forum so when I did happen to see the table the other day, I was quite surprised that although it feels as though all is lost, we're not actually *that* far off.

I'm not as confident as some about our prospects of finishing this season on a high - I think Fark said it perfectly earlier in this thread or another - however the fact that we're not further behind after a truly mind-boggling few months of shitness does provide a reasonable enough foundation for a bit of hope.
[/quote]

If you are talkinf 4th place as our goal then ya we could be worse.

But considering last season and what we want to acheive it makes very sad reading.
 
Dreamy - I've judt noticed you've posted on the 'Arshavin' thread. I swear on my family that I have yet to look at that post.

I just wanted to say though that I predict you typed soemthing along the lines of "I said last year that we should have signed him instead of Robbie Keane, and everybody laughed at me" - Words to that effect. You'll blame Rafa for not buying Arshavin.

If you haven't done that, I apologise. You're not as completely predictable as I thought.

Right, I'm off to check.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=37728.msg1008713#msg1008713 date=1260234028]
I've been too disgusted with our performances to look at anything football related other than this forum so when I did happen to see the table the other day, I was quite surprised that although it feels as though all is lost, we're not actually *that* far off.

I'm not as confident as some about our prospects of finishing this season on a high - I think Fark said it perfectly earlier in this thread or another - however the fact that we're not further behind after a truly mind-boggling few months of shitness does provide a reasonable enough foundation for a bit of hope.
[/quote]

Have to agree with this.

I looked in the paper after the Spurs draw with Everton and was again struck by the thought "how can we still even see the top 4?" Our performances have been so turgid its sometimes even hard to watch and the game with Blackburn was depressing in the extreme when you consider what the team can dish up. Despite all this we're still so close its hard to believe.

It's hard not to think that we will, eventually, turn it around into some kind of form. Even that horrendous season under GH after we finished second - we still, eventually, got some form. Surely we can at least do that again and, given how close we are to Spurs etc, still get 4th. I don't for one minute, however, think it will be easy.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37728.msg1008736#msg1008736 date=1260235959]
Dreamy - I've judt noticed you've posted on the 'Arshavin' thread. I swear on my family that I have yet to look at that post.

I just wanted to say though that I predict you typed soemthing along the lines of "I said last year that we should have signed him instead of Robbie Keane, and everybody laughed at me" - Words to that effect. You'll blame Rafa for not buying Arshavin.

If you haven't done that, I apologise. You're not as completely predictable as I thought.

Right, I'm off to check.
[/quote]

**waits apology**

This will be good.

;D
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37728.msg1008693#msg1008693 date=1260232505]


Nice post.

However I must disagree on Yossi, He scored a hat trick from behind Torres this year and also started there against Utd at home where he created the breakthrough goal. He does like to drift in but this causes to become very narrow and predictable when he does.

I'd much prefer from day one if we had played Gerrard and Masher/Lucas depending on masher's fitness with Yossi in the hole behind Torres/Kuyt again depending on fitness.

Then he could have had Aurelio, Babel Reira outwide. That team would have been alot more stable and controlled alot more games.

Yes we have conceded more and not having a settled defence has been a major factor but I think our midfield getting overrun by any team with attacking midfielders with pace has shown where our true weakness has been.

Zonal marking as per has not helped either.

Rafa has been unlucky with injuries but I think his stubborness with certain players and formations have had just a big a part to play in our current situation.
[/quote]

Firstly about Benayouns position against the likes of Burnley and United, i remember him alternating with Kuyt a great deal throughout both games and like i said earlier with Gerrard in there aswell those 3 give us good fluidity and versatility in behind Torres. Problem is though once again injuries have disrupted all that, even at the weekend both Gerrard and Yossi seemed to be still struggling for full fitness.

It's the same for zonal marking and our problems defending set pieces - defenders have been in and out of the side too often to get any real understanding or continuity going on. Thankfully with Agger back we haven't conceded in the last 3 and things seem to be settling down again.

Our biggest problem for me so far this season is the lack of height in the side, especially in central midfield. I think the manager has alluded to it himself but particularly in midfield we've lacked a real presence at times in both open and set play. Aquilani will hopefully help to fill a void in more ways than one.

The manager has been backed in to a corner with what he's been able to do tactically, some of it is his own doing but injuries have been untimely too. I think also had the team received the proper backing financially during the summer we may have coped better with injuries and had more options and variety to our play.
 
[quote author=Juanito link=topic=37728.msg1008747#msg1008747 date=1260236559]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37728.msg1008693#msg1008693 date=1260232505]


Nice post.

However I must disagree on Yossi, He scored a hat trick from behind Torres this year and also started there against Utd at home where he created the breakthrough goal. He does like to drift in but this causes to become very narrow and predictable when he does.

I'd much prefer from day one if we had played Gerrard and Masher/Lucas depending on masher's fitness with Yossi in the hole behind Torres/Kuyt again depending on fitness.

Then he could have had Aurelio, Babel Reira outwide. That team would have been alot more stable and controlled alot more games.

Yes we have conceded more and not having a settled defence has been a major factor but I think our midfield getting overrun by any team with attacking midfielders with pace has shown where our true weakness has been.

Zonal marking as per has not helped either.

Rafa has been unlucky with injuries but I think his stubborness with certain players and formations have had just a big a part to play in our current situation.
[/quote]

Firstly about Benayouns position against the likes of Burnley and United, i remember him alternating with Kuyt a great deal throughout both games and like i said earlier with Gerrard in there aswell those 3 give us good fluidity and versatility in behind Torres. Problem is though once again injuries have disrupted all that, even at the weekend both Gerrard and Yossi seemed to be still struggling for full fitness.

It's the same for zonal marking and our problems defending set pieces - defenders have been in and out of the side too often to get any real understanding or continuity going on. Thankfully with Agger back we haven't conceded in the last 3 and things seem to be settling down again.

Our biggest problem for me so far this season is the lack of height in the side, especially in central midfield. I think the manager has alluded to it himself but particularly in midfield we've lacked a real presence at times in both open and set play. Aquilani will hopefully help to fill a void in more ways than one.

The manager has been backed in to a corner with what he's been able to do tactically, some of it is his own doing but injuries have been untimely too. I think also had the team received the proper backing financially during the summer we may have coped better with injuries and had more options and variety to our play.
[/quote]

The team lacking in height is down to the manager.

Rafa was made fully aware of how much money he had to spend on new contracts players signing on fees etc according to my source so I don't buy that one.

Zonal marking by definition shouldn't matter if players chop and change. Everyone gets drilled in training on their positions and should be able to step in when needed. In general play yes our defence has suffered from not having the same guys week in week out however most of our goals have come from set pieces.

Again down to the manager.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

I agree when everyone is fit things go more smoothly, but look at Utd, they have chopped and changed all year, lost 2 serious goal threats, their best player, have a defensive crisis and are still playing the same familar attractive flowing brand of football everyone has come to know from UTD.

With Liverpool,

we lose Torres/Gerrard or switch the defence around and suddenly its understandable that our play looks disjointed and nothing like last season. And I mean nothing like it. The Blackburn game was simply atricious.

You raise some very valid points but there must come a stage where we say enough excuses.
 
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=37728.msg1008444#msg1008444 date=1260217628]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=37728.msg1008230#msg1008230 date=1260191848]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=37728.msg1008206#msg1008206 date=1260191087]
we gave gh another season when he failed to make top 4, will be interesting to see if rafa is given another season if we fail to make top four.
[/quote]

If he fails to get fourth I don't think he'll be gone; It would take something very unusual for him to be removed and I can't see it happening. Besdies that what would be the point - I haven't seen anyone out there who is going to be available and an improvement. I don't see the point - no matter how frustrating some of his decisions - in paying out 10m + for no improvement.
[/quote]

That's exacterly hows I see it.
[/quote]

If we don't finish top 4 after being skittled out of the CL at the first hurdle Benitez should be sacked. Full stop. No extra year to turn it around. Bye Bye.

However, as I said earlier in this thread, I think we will finish top 4 and it will probably save his neck. Although if that 4th place is 25 points off the top, that's another matter.
 
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=37728.msg1009037#msg1009037 date=1260275088]
I still think we will come first or second.

Right, I'm off for my check up.
[/quote]

haha, such a rare gem
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37728.msg1008754#msg1008754 date=1260237487]

Rafa was made fully aware of how much money he had to spend on new contracts players signing on fees etc according to my source so I don't buy that one.

[/quote]

According to your source when was Rafa made fully aware of all of this??
 
[quote author=Juanito link=topic=37728.msg1009323#msg1009323 date=1260291290]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37728.msg1008754#msg1008754 date=1260237487]

Rafa was made fully aware of how much money he had to spend on new contracts players signing on fees etc according to my source so I don't buy that one.

[/quote]

According to your source when was Rafa made fully aware of all of this??
[/quote]

I'm going to enjoy the answer to this one....
 
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=37728.msg1009385#msg1009385 date=1260300560]
[quote author=Juanito link=topic=37728.msg1009323#msg1009323 date=1260291290]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37728.msg1008754#msg1008754 date=1260237487]

Rafa was made fully aware of how much money he had to spend on new contracts players signing on fees etc according to my source so I don't buy that one.

[/quote]

According to your source when was Rafa made fully aware of all of this??
[/quote]

I'm going to enjoy the answer to this one....
[/quote]

I bet Purslow goes over to Oz once a month to keep DB fully up to date on everything LFC.
 
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=37728.msg1009037#msg1009037 date=1260275088]
I still think we will come first or second.

Right, I'm off for my check up.
[/quote]

Ha ha Jesus Spion.

2nd or 1st?
 
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