That we won more points per game this season under Rodgers.
Rodgers v. Klopp
- Thread starter Rosco
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Status
That we won more points per game this season under Rodgers.
Hes been bummed by Injuries, not sure if he's partly to blame for those though.
He does also seem to have inherited an incredibly hectic fixture list, I don't if we've played many more games than post prem teams but it certainly feels like it.
He's also in a new league, in a new country.
He's also playing 100% with an inherited squad bar 3 minutes for caulker yesterday
All in all, he's doing okay, I'm in my opinion.
There's massive room for improvement and that improvement is certainly expected in the second half of 2016
He does also seem to have inherited an incredibly hectic fixture list, I don't if we've played many more games than post prem teams but it certainly feels like it.
He's also in a new league, in a new country.
He's also playing 100% with an inherited squad bar 3 minutes for caulker yesterday
All in all, he's doing okay, I'm in my opinion.
There's massive room for improvement and that improvement is certainly expected in the second half of 2016
WUM
We've looked as bad as anything Rodgers served up against the likes of Watford et al recently but on the whole I think the performances have been a little better. There is a glimmer of hope and belief.
That being said, I don't really hold that much hope that Klopp will turn us into contenders again. It just feels like we're cursed.
That being said, I don't really hold that much hope that Klopp will turn us into contenders again. It just feels like we're cursed.
Yes and Rafa's numbers are eskewed because he had a transfer window and a preseason.
And honestly this thread is absurd. The knee's jerking before the hammer's even been raised.
Klopp's come in on the back of a fiasco of signings thanks to the "committee" - Rodgers' comments only highlight that. You can't even say it's Rodgers' squad. It's the squad of a mish mash of Brodge and a bunch of people who know nothing about the game. All that matters is FSG have learnt their lesson and don't put a straight jacket on Jurgen like they did on Brodge. We can start to judge Klopp after 100 weeks not 100 days.
Klopp's come in on the back of a fiasco of signings thanks to the "committee" - Rodgers' comments only highlight that. You can't even say it's Rodgers' squad. It's the squad of a mish mash of Brodge and a bunch of people who know nothing about the game. All that matters is FSG have learnt their lesson and don't put a straight jacket on Jurgen like they did on Brodge. We can start to judge Klopp after 100 weeks not 100 days.
Rodgers
2 of the 8 (25%) were vs last season's top 5
3 of the 8 (37.5%) were vs last season's top 10
Klopp
5 of the 14 (35%) were vs last season's top 5
8 of the 14 (57%) were vs last season's top 10
Worth noting that Rodger's record vs Man City, Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea was 23 points out of possible 78 from 26 games (0.88 pts per game)
Klopp got 7 pts out of a possible 12 from 4 games (1.75 pts per game)
Rodgers' last result vs sides whom Klopp dropped points against WBA(D), West Ham(L), Crystal Palace(L), Newcastle(L) were identical.
We could've been in relegation fight. 😵
2 of the 8 (25%) were vs last season's top 5
3 of the 8 (37.5%) were vs last season's top 10
Klopp
5 of the 14 (35%) were vs last season's top 5
8 of the 14 (57%) were vs last season's top 10
Worth noting that Rodger's record vs Man City, Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea was 23 points out of possible 78 from 26 games (0.88 pts per game)
Klopp got 7 pts out of a possible 12 from 4 games (1.75 pts per game)
Rodgers' last result vs sides whom Klopp dropped points against WBA(D), West Ham(L), Crystal Palace(L), Newcastle(L) were identical.
We could've been in relegation fight. 😵
Last edited:
Changing managers does not help that much unless we change the way we do transfers. As time passes, I am more and more convinced that the turning point for us as a club was not replacing King Kenny with Souness; the turning point was not adequately replacing people like Geoff Twentyman, who worked in the background and ensured that the managers had a steady stream of high quality players.
Are you saying I'm knee jerking ?
For showing again that everything else is more important than who the manager is ?
Are you trying to tell me that Klopp can't win the league with this squad, even if he adds Steven Caulker and Shane Long? He's had NO PRE-SEASON and the players aren't used to his methods yet. Next year we'll be Champions
He's magic remember?!
I'm going to go out on a limb and say no.
Overall I think we are playing better, the tempo is much higher and we definitely have more players in or around the opponents box. Can is no longer a defender and there have been marked improvements in players like Moreno, Lovren, Can.
We are still toothless in front of goal, we seemed to lack fitness, we have a poor defense/keeper and we have some very mediocre expensive players. These are problems from BR's era.
We need to let JK do his stuff, it will realistically be next season when we can judge him fairly. We still might win a few cups this season.
Get a grip guys.
We are still toothless in front of goal, we seemed to lack fitness, we have a poor defense/keeper and we have some very mediocre expensive players. These are problems from BR's era.
We need to let JK do his stuff, it will realistically be next season when we can judge him fairly. We still might win a few cups this season.
Get a grip guys.
I don't get the point Ross, or sorry, I kind of do, we've more or less stood still because it's the same squad, and as Brendan says, Klopp isn't the magician he was made out to be, but...
If Klopp buys the right players and gets us playing his way with the key personnel that we obviously lack (ie, a backbone), then managers make a difference, no? If he makes the right decisions this Summer in the transfer market and we improve, then he's made a difference. If we make the wrong decisions and decline, then he's still made a difference. A negative one, but all the same.
I'll do the same with your post Mark.
So managers can only make a difference by buying the right players ?
Depends. Obviously some managers can come in and add stability to a side, make them a bit more organised and balance out the results, then they add to the side to make it better (or worse). You can buy a few players who are top quality but fail, for varying reasons.
Rafa won the CL with a two bit side, then built a fairly amazing side that didn't get to the final or win anything at all.
Ultimately it's a package, a combination of the right buys, the right tactics, players hitting their peak at the right time, a bit of luck, the cycle of footballing styles going against what is the current flavour of the month and winning out. Like the constant cycle of attacking sides winning for few years, then more pragmatic sides winning for a few years.
Anyway, it's not really "just" down to money. To have sustained success at the top level you might need to be able to compete financially, at the very least partially, or be very shrewd and enjoy longevity. Wenger hasn't won as much as he should have over the last decade, but he's kept Arsenal moderately successful on a budget that was some way behind the big guns not too long ago. We have spent enough to compete alot more than we have, enjoying only occasional cup success and a title challenge at a rate of about 3 times in 20 years. Only stubborn/wrong/average/poor managers have stopped that, not a lack of spending power. So that returns us to the point about buying the right players, that's just about the singular most decisive thing that separates the quality in managers, that and some degree of tactical prowess. Surely? I don't think you can subtract the ability to identify the right sort of player away from a managers credentials. Nor can it be used as something to undermine the quality of a manager. Even if you enjoy success having spent a shit load of money, if you're not good enough as a manager you'll be found out in next to no time. So it's not really something that should be separated from every other quality needed to succeed, it's a quality within itself.
Last edited:
Have you ever had a job? Do you actually understand what a manager does?
Actually maybe you're Barney Roney looking for article fodder:
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/jan/18/liverpool-jurgen-klopp-transfer-committee
Liverpool transfer jumble has left Jürgen Klopp in charge of a footballing camel
A camel, so the saying goes, is a horse designed by committee. The combined input of a six-man transfer committee and five managers has left Klopp with one of the weirdest and most ill-fitting squads in recent Premier League history
Much has been made of Jürgen Klopp’s touchline behaviour at Liverpool, those sudden cartwheeling appearances, grasping at the air, forming weird geometric shapes with his hands, a blur of teeth, glasses and quilted sportswear. At first this was interpreted as passion, then anger, then provocation. Another thought occurred watching Klopp at Anfield on Sunday. Perhaps he’s just really, really confused.
And with good reason, too. Liverpool’s squad is a deeply confusing collection of footballers. Watching their spirited impersonation of a coherent, hard-pressing Premier League team, it was the final 10 minutes of the defeat by Manchester United that really stood out. Chasing a point at the last, Klopp sent on Christian Benteke, the only centre-forward in his 18-man squad. Benteke touched the ball six times and visibly struggled to fit into a team that had just spent 80 minutes playing to an entirely different set of strengths.
With a minute to go Steven Caulker, a centre-half at centre-forward, came on for James Milner, a central midfielder playing as a right-sided attacker, to join Roberto Firmino, a No9 or No10, who spent the 90 minutes haring about, quite effectively, trying to be both.
Little wonder Klopp might be a bit confused. And not just by the conflicting qualities of the group of players he has inherited. But by the structures and governance of a club that has, in a brilliant coup, managed to hire one of the most desirable managers in Europe; and then, in the opposite of a brilliant coup, presented him with one of the weirdest, most ill-fitting squads in recent Premier League history.
This is no exaggeration. Liverpool have signed 50 players in the past five years, a team a season. The current group were signed under five different managers, to unconnected tactical plans, most recently by a mob-handed transfer committeewith its own dimly conceived moneyball-style pretentions.
There is no shortage of informed opinion on Klopp’s efforts to make sense of this. One thing stands out, though. Liverpool’s transfer committee, in its current format, really does deserve to go. The reasons for this are obvious enough. First, it is now basically redundant. It was Brendan Rodgers’ insistence that he wouldn’t work with a director of football that led to the committee’s formation in the first place. Odd to think that but for Rodgers’ stubbornness Louis van Gaal might have been in the Liverpool directors’ box on Sunday, or even next to Klopp on the bench as one half of a mouthwatering Euro-brainbox power-couple.
Rodgers’ remarks about the workings of the club over the weekend must be read in the context of an unemployed manager tending his reputation. But they do shine a light on the self-generated muddle the club has handed his successor. “It’s difficult because you want a player in but if the player is not on the list, you’d have to take someone,” Rodgers said. “There’s no other option, you give it a go.”
Except that giving it a go works only if there is a hint of a tactically sympathetic relationship with the man putting these players on the pitch. Of the team Liverpool fielded on Sunday, Mamadou Sakho, Emre Can, Alberto Moreno and Firmino are said to have been “committee” signings. Adam Lallana, Milner, Benteke and Nathaniel Clyne were Rodgers’ choices. Lucas Leiva and Jordan Henderson were signed by Rafa Benítez and Kenny Dalglish. Jordon Ibe was an academy kid taken from Wycombe at the age of 16, a Rodgers favourite, now embraced – just about – by Klopp.
A camel, so the saying goes, is a horse designed by committee. And right now Liverpool are pretty much the definition of a footballing camel. A squad built with the combined input of a six-man committee and five different managers, with a mixture of team-building, bargain-hunting, quick fix and long-term planning in mind, was never likely to be anything else.
The issue at Liverpool is a transfer committee that has simply failed on its record. The dominant personality is said to be Mike Gordon, a well-respected US stockbroker who is, according to John Henry, “by far FSG America’s most knowledgeable person with regard to soccer”. Footballers, though, are not stocks. Buying young players with resale in mind does not amount to team-building. “They were thinking this is a £50m player we could maybe get for £16m,”Rodgers said of the signing of Mario Balotelli.
But there is a reason Balotelli was so cheap. Just as Rodgers, in pure football terms, was never going to be the manager to bring him to that level.
It was at least a tactic though. Two years on the signing of Benteke, for a non-refundable twice the price, seems entirely baffling: neither an investment nor a symptom of Rodgers’ playing “philosophy” in action, just evidence of a confusion of voices.
What is clear is that Klopp has a minor part in what this team of mismatched components look like right now. He may yet be able to wring some short-term order. But the ability to panic-build is hardly a basis on which to judge him. Just as it is probably best to put a hold on asking when we might see the first barks of power-chord football from the collection of mandolins, harpsichords and broken ukuleles thrust into his hands. The real measure will come a year or so on from the expected purge at the end of the season. On current evidence Firmino, Can, Philippe Coutinho, Lucas, Clyne, along with youngsters such as Ibe and Joe Gomez may form an early nucleus. The list of those likely to head elsewhere is as long as a piece of string, with Benteke and Lallana the most obviously lacking in Klopp-style edge.
For now a better place to start might be the slimming down or junking of that ill-starred committee, an accident of the Rodgers era that has turned out to be its most confusing legacy.
It's easy to forget that he's been thrown into a league he hasn't worked in before. Benitez took quite some time to come to terms with the English game. But if you're a good manager, you adjust and find the best way to win, which Klopp will do.
I'm not worried about Klopp at all. He'll be just fine. I'm more worried about idiots and media getting on his back.
I'm not worried about Klopp at all. He'll be just fine. I'm more worried about idiots and media getting on his back.
Hahahahaha, Jesus Ross. Slow day?
Do you want me to bump the thread you started about the difference Klopp was making ?
I hate doing that but that was the alternative
Perhaps by way of example.
Management
Wikipedia defines a football manager as with the following responsibilities
The manager's responsibilities in a professional football club usually include (but are not limited to) the following:
- Selecting the team of players for matches, and their formation.
- Planning the strategy, and instructing the players on the pitch.
- Motivating players before and during a match.
- Delegating duties to the first team coach and the coaching and medical staff.
- Scouting for young but talented players for eventual training in the youth academy or the reserves, and encouraging their development and improvement.
- Buying and selling players in the transfer market, including loans.
- Facing the media in pre-match and post-match interviews.
Jesus
- Changing water into wine
- Casting out unclean spirits
- Curing his friends' mother-in-laws of fevers
- Healing lepers
- Raising widows' sons from the dead
- Curing demoniacs
- Opening the eyes of the blind
- Loosening the tongue of men who cannot speak
- Restoring withered hands
- Curing demon-possessed men
- Feeding at least five thousand people
- Curing a man of dropsy
- Cleansing lepers
- Raising Lazarus from the dead
- Instantly turning a rag tag bunch of footballers into Barcelona
- Rising from from the dead
That would be a funny post if i genuinely did think any of that.
Have you missed the last 7 years of me boring the tits off people by constantly telling them managers make fuck all difference ?
I think a good analogy to your position is saying that climate change isn't responsible for a particular disaster.
What's your view on climate change?
I'm loathed to try to get Ross's point across, but I guess what he is trying to say is that unless you're a "brilliant" manager, the type whom are few and far between, then eventually a team and respective manager's success will balance itself and hit a level on average that is more or less the sum of it's clubs ambitions - which is fair enough.
What I don't really agree with is the Klopp example, it doesn't verify anything other than he's feeling the pinch of his predecessors (and that piss poor committees) fuck ups. I think overall you can see marginal improvements, but you can only really assess his impact once he's had time to settle into the league, to see his tactics become second nature and the buy his own players.
Like I said though, buying players is a credential that you have to get right, so the ability to spot talent can be seen as an asset rather than an advantage.
What I don't really agree with is the Klopp example, it doesn't verify anything other than he's feeling the pinch of his predecessors (and that piss poor committees) fuck ups. I think overall you can see marginal improvements, but you can only really assess his impact once he's had time to settle into the league, to see his tactics become second nature and the buy his own players.
Like I said though, buying players is a credential that you have to get right, so the ability to spot talent can be seen as an asset rather than an advantage.
Its a hoax.
- Status
Similar threads
-
- Locked
