Ratings vs Birmingham

[Modo]

Reina 7 - Didn't have much to do, kept a clean sheet.

Flanagan 6 - (He's still a kid, refuse to criticize him)
Robinson 6 - Ditto
Carra 7 - Annoying clearances at times, especially when we're up 5-0. But nonetheless a rock.
Skrtel 8 - Didn't put a foot wrong and showed some dribbling skills. Has really improved recently.

Spearing 6 - Started off bad but got in to the game as it progressed and worked hard.
Lucas 7 - Bossed the midfield. Looks composed with the ball.
Meireles 7 - Good link up play with the attackers, passing a bit erratic at times.

Suarez 8 - A constant threat. Spurned some opportunities but was behind two of our goals.
Maxi 8 - MOM - Hat-trick hero. Great performance.
Kuyt 7 - Got himself on the score sheet and worked hard as usual.

Subs:
Shelvey 7 - Came on as left back and didn't look uncomfortable at all.
Cole - N/A
Ngog -N/A

Dalglish 9 - Would have got an "10" if he had let Coady come on. We were up by 4 Kenny, come on!

 

[Fabio]

Reina - 7
Robinson -8
Carra- 7
skrtel -7
Flannal - 7
Lucas - 9 MOTM. Barely poot a foot wrong
Jay - 6
Raul - 8
Maxi- 8
Suarez - 8
Kuyt - 7

 

[TheBunnyman]

Wow, Modo, those are pretty harsh ratings. I thought the whole team played really well. Maxi was one of our least outstanding players - and he scored a hat-trick!

Reina - 7
Robinson -8
Carra- 7
skrtel - 8
Flanagan - 8
Lucas - 8
Spearing - 8
Ming - 8
Maxi - 7
Suarez - 8
Kuyt - 7

 

[Modo]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=45075.msg1320578#msg1320578 date=1303579291]
Wow, Modo, those are pretty harsh ratings. I thought the whole team played really well. Maxi was one of our least outstanding players - and he scored a hat-trick!
[/quote]

I don't know, I try to look beyond the scoreline. The game was boring at times, we kept losing possession of the ball and our passing was generally average.
Three of our goals were the result of long balls from our own half and the last goal was a counter-attack. What I'm trying to say is that Birmingham were really, really poor defensively.

I don't want to be mean towards Flanno and Robbo considering their age and inexperience. I want to judge the players fairly and in doing so I'm comparing our young fullbacks to how our first choice fullbacks are expected to play. With that in mind they definitely didn't deserve a rating above 6.

I can't give a player that just scored a hat-trick a rating below 8. He was in the right place at the right time three times during the game and that counts.

 

[TheBunnyman]

Our passing was generally average? There were phases of play when we lost possession too easily, but there were also phases where we passed and moved like the 87 side. Yes, Birmingham defended badly, but they played at Stamford Bridge in midweek and lost by two goals - the fact that we beat them so easily is to our credit.

And I thought the full-backs were genuinely excellent. What did they do wrong in your opinion?

 

[MaBigTip]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=45075.msg1320574#msg1320574 date=1303577872]
Reina - 7
Robinson -8
Carra- 7
skrtel -7
Flannal - 7
Lucas - 9 MOTM. Barely poot a foot wrong
Jay - 6
Raul - 8
Maxi- 8
Suarez - 8
Kuyt - 7
[/quote]

I'm very surprised Fabio, I was gonna make a rawk comment but I realized it was you and the respect is too high for that, so instead i'll ask for an explanation. Do you really feel not doing anything wrong deserves MOTM for Lucas when we had players who actually had extremely positive contributions. We're Suarez, Maxi, Meireles and Skrtel not better than him in your eyes? Help me see what you saw.

 

[peterhague]

i think modo's made the classic error of not wanting to be too effusive and overcompensated and become too critical. he's done a 'Lawro', in short.

 

[doctor_mac]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=45075.msg1320584#msg1320584 date=1303581419]
i think modo's made the classic error of not wanting to be too effusive and overcompensated and become too critical. he's done a 'Lawro', in short.
[/quote]

Ha!

 

[Modo]

Regarding our fullbacks:
Don't get me wrong a "6" doesn't mean that they were bad. They did the job.
Like I said, I don't want to sound mean but here goes:

Poor decision making and passing at times. I especially remember Robinson doing a great turn to get passed Larsson only to pass it to Spearing who was closely marked by a Birmigham player who intercepted and caused the defence some problems. Flanagan was also guilty of this a couple of times.

Attacking play. Basically they didn't get forward as much as I would have liked them to. I'm used to Johnson and Aurelio(when fit), getting forward and pinging crosses in.

 

[Fabio]

everything lucas touched today was effortless. He intercepted like a champion, he tackled like a hero and his range of passing was (I'm probably getting too excited here) alonso-esque. Today was a complete performance from the lad, and dominated the midfield. Spearing went missing too much for my liking, mereiles weakened as the game went on,skrtel did pay well but was hardly put under pressure, suarez was great but was too ball greedy and maxi did nothing outside their box.

 

[MaBigTip]

Fair enough. I do think you got a little too excited but its okay because Lucas's performences are starting to make it not worth the money to replace him as DM, and he never gets injured so a backup is also not that pressing.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

I didn't see it so I don't know, but your description of Shelvey hardly seems like a 7.

 

[MaBigTip]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=45075.msg1320599#msg1320599 date=1303582361]
I didn't see it so I don't know, but your description of Shelvey hardly seems like a 7.
[/quote]

Jeez man I wasn't that bad, I almost set up two goals from left back in 14 minutes.

 

[Modo]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=45075.msg1320599#msg1320599 date=1303582361]
I didn't see it so I don't know, but your description of Shelvey hardly seems like a 7.
[/quote]
To be honest I only saw a few minutes of him on the pitch because I switched to the Spurs game. But during those minutes he created a great chance for Kuyt and looked very composed.
Didn't do anything wrong hence a "7".

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Ignore me sorry, read it as "didn't look comfortable", rather than "didn't look uncomfortable" 🙁

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=45075.msg1320599#msg1320599 date=1303582361]
I didn't see it so I don't know, but your description of Shelvey hardly seems like a 7.
[/quote]

Shelvey played about 11 minutes of regulation + 3 minutes of injury time. Not sure how he'd have warranted a 7 as well as the game was over by then and he really didn't have much to do.

Having said that, he played a few pretty passes, twice slipping nicely-weighted passes behind the Brum defenders/midfielders to his man. I think he's been harshly judged by some in the game thread (before the game), but I like the kid. I think he's got good vision, and that given more meaningful minutes as well as played in his proper position (instead of RM where he's been deployed some times this season), he'll show his value.

Flanagan and Robinson both definitely deserve more than 6 in my book. Worth mentioning also that Kenny did great pulling Robinson to protect him from picking up another yellow, given our paucity of choices there now. Not that he was at risk of that, mind - I think the yellow he picked up was harsh, but that's Webb for you.

 

[TheBunnyman]

I suppose that is why he took Robinson off. I still thought it was a bit weird, though, putting a right-footed attacking midfielder at LB. And the first thing Shelvey did was make a rash, over-aggressive foul. He wasn't booked for it, but it was actually more of a yellow card than Robinson's tackle.

I can't believe Jack Robinson isn't getting more plaudits tbh. That was his first-ever PL start, and he's 17 years old. He's lightning-quick, tall, intelligent, calm, and a good defender. He looks a fucking brilliant prospect to me.

 

[Fabio]

I gave him an 8! What more can I do??

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=Shelvey link=topic=45075.msg1320583#msg1320583 date=1303581293]
I'm very surprised Fabio, I was gonna make a rawk comment but I realized it was you and the respect is too high for that, so instead i'll ask for an explanation. Do you really feel not doing anything wrong deserves MOTM for Lucas when we had players who actually had extremely positive contributions. We're Suarez, Maxi, Meireles and Skrtel not better than him in your eyes? Help me see what you saw.
[/quote]

Seems you are the one that didn't see what everyone else saw .... all over the press reports are giving Lucas high praise (and even MotM) for his performance today.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=45075.msg1320626#msg1320626 date=1303583667]
I suppose that is why he took Robinson off. I still thought it was a bit weird, though, putting a right-footed attacking midfielder at LB. And the first thing Shelvey did was make a rash, over-aggressive foul. He wasn't booked for it, but it was actually more of a yellow card than Robinson's tackle.

I can't believe Jack Robinson isn't getting more plaudits tbh. That was his first-ever PL start, and he's 17 years old. He's lightning-quick, tall, intelligent, calm, and a good defender. He looks a fucking brilliant prospect to me.
[/quote]

absolutely. i don't think people realise quite how good these lads are. in kelly, flanagan, wisdom and robinson there's a potential back 4 all with genuine chances of playing for england imo. it's really an amazingly exciting set of youngsters coming through in the next 2-3 years, and people who follow it closely have been saying it for a couple of years now.

 

[Modo]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=45075.msg1320637#msg1320637 date=1303584353]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=45075.msg1320626#msg1320626 date=1303583667]
I suppose that is why he took Robinson off. I still thought it was a bit weird, though, putting a right-footed attacking midfielder at LB. And the first thing Shelvey did was make a rash, over-aggressive foul. He wasn't booked for it, but it was actually more of a yellow card than Robinson's tackle.

I can't believe Jack Robinson isn't getting more plaudits tbh. That was his first-ever PL start, and he's 17 years old. He's lightning-quick, tall, intelligent, calm, and a good defender. He looks a fucking brilliant prospect to me.
[/quote]

absolutely. i don't think people realise quite how good these lads are. in kelly, flanagan, wisdom and robinson there's a potential back 4 all with genuine chances of playing for england imo. it's really an amazingly exciting set of youngsters coming through in the next 2-3 years, and people who follow it closely have been saying it for a couple of years now.
[/quote]
I'm also excited but it doesnt cloud my judgement. I give credit when it's due. It was a decent performance by the kids but I cant guve them the same rating as Meireles and Lucas.

 

[dmishra]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=45075.msg1320626#msg1320626 date=1303583667]
I suppose that is why he took Robinson off. I still thought it was a bit weird, though, putting a right-footed attacking midfielder at LB. And the first thing Shelvey did was make a rash, over-aggressive foul. He wasn't booked for it, but it was actually more of a yellow card than Robinson's tackle.

I can't believe Jack Robinson isn't getting more plaudits tbh. That was his first-ever PL start, and he's 17 years old. He's lightning-quick, tall, intelligent, calm, and a good defender. He looks a fucking brilliant prospect to me.
[/quote]

He has decent pace but he's by no means lightning quick. Both Flanagan and Robinson seem good mature kids, and seem to know how to defend. Provided they fill out physically, I think they'd make solid and dependable PL full backs. Having said that, neither strike me as a world class prospect. Kelly is by far the best defensive prospect on our books. Sky is the limit for him.

I like the look of Shelvey (and I've gone out about it all season) as well. We need to start playing him in his correct position though.

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=dmishra link=topic=45075.msg1320643#msg1320643 date=1303584821]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=45075.msg1320626#msg1320626 date=1303583667]
I suppose that is why he took Robinson off. I still thought it was a bit weird, though, putting a right-footed attacking midfielder at LB. And the first thing Shelvey did was make a rash, over-aggressive foul. He wasn't booked for it, but it was actually more of a yellow card than Robinson's tackle.

I can't believe Jack Robinson isn't getting more plaudits tbh. That was his first-ever PL start, and he's 17 years old. He's lightning-quick, tall, intelligent, calm, and a good defender. He looks a fucking brilliant prospect to me.
[/quote]

He has decent pace but he's by no means lightning quick. Both Flanagan and Robinson seem good mature kids, and seem to know how to defend. Provided they fill out physically, I think they'd make solid and dependable PL full backs. Having said that, neither strike me as a world class prospect. Kelly is by far the best defensive prospect on our books. Sky is the limit for him.

I like the look of Shelvey (and I've gone out about it all season) as well. We need to start playing him in his correct position though.
[/quote]

That's harsh. They are SEVENTEEN and EIGHTEEN years old FFS ! Have not looked out of place at Arsenal or Birmingham ... they could easily be England internationals by the time they reach 21 or 22 y.o.

 

[dmishra]

[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=45075.msg1320645#msg1320645 date=1303585044]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=45075.msg1320643#msg1320643 date=1303584821]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=45075.msg1320626#msg1320626 date=1303583667]
I suppose that is why he took Robinson off. I still thought it was a bit weird, though, putting a right-footed attacking midfielder at LB. And the first thing Shelvey did was make a rash, over-aggressive foul. He wasn't booked for it, but it was actually more of a yellow card than Robinson's tackle.

I can't believe Jack Robinson isn't getting more plaudits tbh. That was his first-ever PL start, and he's 17 years old. He's lightning-quick, tall, intelligent, calm, and a good defender. He looks a fucking brilliant prospect to me.
[/quote]

He has decent pace but he's by no means lightning quick. Both Flanagan and Robinson seem good mature kids, and seem to know how to defend. Provided they fill out physically, I think they'd make solid and dependable PL full backs. Having said that, neither strike me as a world class prospect. Kelly is by far the best defensive prospect on our books. Sky is the limit for him.

I like the look of Shelvey (and I've gone out about it all season) as well. We need to start playing him in his correct position though.
[/quote]

That's harsh. They are SEVENTEEN and EIGHTEEN years old FFS ! Have not looked out of place at Arsenal or Birmingham ... they could easily be England internationals by the time they reach 21 or 22 y.o.
[/quote]


Which part is harsh?

 

[Frogfish]

Solid and dependable fullbacks is hardly a big compliment, that's the tag Warnock has now ! But saying that you don't think they will make world class when they are kids having played 2 great games each in the PL ..... a very tough league .. against the likes of Walcott, vPersie, Arshavin etc. seems very premature IMO. Give them a couple more years at least before saying they can't get to an Ashley Cole level.

 

[dmishra]

Warnock is not solid and dependable. He's fucking shit.

Solid and dependable is Finnan and Riise. If Flanagan and Robinson reach that level, they'd be success stories.

Before they do that, they need to prove they're not another Otsemobor, Warnock, Wright, or even Insua (given RAWK once thought he was the second coming of Emlyn Hughes).

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=dmishra link=topic=45075.msg1320643#msg1320643 date=1303584821]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=45075.msg1320626#msg1320626 date=1303583667]
I suppose that is why he took Robinson off. I still thought it was a bit weird, though, putting a right-footed attacking midfielder at LB. And the first thing Shelvey did was make a rash, over-aggressive foul. He wasn't booked for it, but it was actually more of a yellow card than Robinson's tackle.

I can't believe Jack Robinson isn't getting more plaudits tbh. That was his first-ever PL start, and he's 17 years old. He's lightning-quick, tall, intelligent, calm, and a good defender. He looks a fucking brilliant prospect to me.
[/quote]

He has decent pace but he's by no means lightning quick. Both Flanagan and Robinson seem good mature kids, and seem to know how to defend. Provided they fill out physically, I think they'd make solid and dependable PL full backs. Having said that, neither strike me as a world class prospect. Kelly is by far the best defensive prospect on our books. Sky is the limit for him.

I like the look of Shelvey (and I've gone out about it all season) as well. We need to start playing him in his correct position though.
[/quote]

So far, in two PL games, he's outpaced Walcott and Jerome. He looks pretty damn quick to me.

 

[TheBunnyman]

Having said that, I think you're right to mention Otsemobor, Wright and Insua - all of whom started very well for Liverpool.

 

[KopKing]

Robinson is very quick.

 

[dmishra]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=45075.msg1320706#msg1320706 date=1303590897]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=45075.msg1320643#msg1320643 date=1303584821]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=45075.msg1320626#msg1320626 date=1303583667]
I suppose that is why he took Robinson off. I still thought it was a bit weird, though, putting a right-footed attacking midfielder at LB. And the first thing Shelvey did was make a rash, over-aggressive foul. He wasn't booked for it, but it was actually more of a yellow card than Robinson's tackle.

I can't believe Jack Robinson isn't getting more plaudits tbh. That was his first-ever PL start, and he's 17 years old. He's lightning-quick, tall, intelligent, calm, and a good defender. He looks a fucking brilliant prospect to me.
[/quote]

He has decent pace but he's by no means lightning quick. Both Flanagan and Robinson seem good mature kids, and seem to know how to defend. Provided they fill out physically, I think they'd make solid and dependable PL full backs. Having said that, neither strike me as a world class prospect. Kelly is by far the best defensive prospect on our books. Sky is the limit for him.

I like the look of Shelvey (and I've gone out about it all season) as well. We need to start playing him in his correct position though.
[/quote]

So far, in two PL games, he's outpaced Walcott and Jerome. He looks pretty damn quick to me.
[/quote]

He didn't 'outpace' them. He kept up with some intelligent defending, and that IMO is what is impressive about him, rather than his physical attributes, which aren't as impressive as some of you seem to be suggesting. He looks fairly quick but I don't see him as having blistering pace. There were a couple of occasions today (and once against Walcott as well) where he got too close to Jerome, and had to clip him as Jerome was a little too quick.

Having said that, I don't think pace will be a reason for him not making it as he seems to be adequately quick.