Rank our midfielders (if you're arsed)
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[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=46134.msg1404875#msg1404875 date=1316963202]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=46134.msg1404869#msg1404869 date=1316962810]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=46134.msg1404818#msg1404818 date=1316954763]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=46134.msg1404816#msg1404816 date=1316954555]
Every game we've played this season - bar none - have demonstrated how much he bought to this team. We've looked stale and stagnant in comparison to the end of last season when he was finding space everywhere.
Why this club has such a powerful self-sabotage mechanism will puzzle me until the day I die.
[/quote]
You've got it let go mate ... The way you go on about him you'd think we sold Xabi or Beardo - we haven't.
And I think we did alright against Bolton and Stoke -> we dominated them and created numerous chances. We've had one bad game (where Meirless wouldn't have had) and played two great halves against Sunderland/Wolves followed by poor halves (Meirless would have helped? Who knows).
He's gone ... We'll be fine without him.
[/quote]
I'm not holding a candle for Ming - I'm simply making an observation on the mentality of so many posters on this site and, probably, supporters in general.
As to whether we'll be fine without him; time will tell but the overwhelming mountain of evidence at this point is to the contrary.
[/quote]
Come on mate ... Again, you're talking about this guy as if he's in the same level as Beardo or Alonso .... He had a good year last year, was a part of a great run when Kenny took over and something happens (I don't know, you don't know, everyone has ideas and that's it). We'll be ok this year with Stevie G and will be fine next year with whatever talent we bring in to replace him 'officially' (we'll get someone much better than him) and then, well ... we'll be fine and in Europe and we'll probably wait for his 'side of the story' to bring up the conversation.
[/quote]
Your obsession with all posts regarding Ming is becoming a touch worrying, mate. More worrying still is your capacity to forget what has happened previously as though nothing can be learnt from it.
Ming wasn't Beardo and he'll never be Alonso but that dosn't mean its fine that he's gone.
We're worse off - end of. 3 months ago everyone on this forum (bar the necessary village idiots) knew we'd be worse off. Then, once he's gone, everyone wants to dismiss him as over rated, not worth it and... wait for it...... we'll be ok without him.
Until he went the biggest mistake we'd made was not sorting out our CB issue. Now our midfield and attack look stagnant at times and rubbish at others. At least its taken the focus off the defense. :🙂
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=46134.msg1404869#msg1404869 date=1316962810]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=46134.msg1404818#msg1404818 date=1316954763]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=46134.msg1404816#msg1404816 date=1316954555]
Every game we've played this season - bar none - have demonstrated how much he bought to this team. We've looked stale and stagnant in comparison to the end of last season when he was finding space everywhere.
Why this club has such a powerful self-sabotage mechanism will puzzle me until the day I die.
[/quote]
You've got it let go mate ... The way you go on about him you'd think we sold Xabi or Beardo - we haven't.
And I think we did alright against Bolton and Stoke -> we dominated them and created numerous chances. We've had one bad game (where Meirless wouldn't have had) and played two great halves against Sunderland/Wolves followed by poor halves (Meirless would have helped? Who knows).
He's gone ... We'll be fine without him.
[/quote]
I'm not holding a candle for Ming - I'm simply making an observation on the mentality of so many posters on this site and, probably, supporters in general.
As to whether we'll be fine without him; time will tell but the overwhelming mountain of evidence at this point is to the contrary.
[/quote]
Come on mate ... Again, you're talking about this guy as if he's in the same level as Beardo or Alonso .... He had a good year last year, was a part of a great run when Kenny took over and something happens (I don't know, you don't know, everyone has ideas and that's it). We'll be ok this year with Stevie G and will be fine next year with whatever talent we bring in to replace him 'officially' (we'll get someone much better than him) and then, well ... we'll be fine and in Europe and we'll probably wait for his 'side of the story' to bring up the conversation.
[/quote]
Your obsession with all posts regarding Ming is becoming a touch worrying, mate. More worrying still is your capacity to forget what has happened previously as though nothing can be learnt from it.
Ming wasn't Beardo and he'll never be Alonso but that dosn't mean its fine that he's gone.
We're worse off - end of. 3 months ago everyone on this forum (bar the necessary village idiots) knew we'd be worse off. Then, once he's gone, everyone wants to dismiss him as over rated, not worth it and... wait for it...... we'll be ok without him.
Until he went the biggest mistake we'd made was not sorting out our CB issue. Now our midfield and attack look stagnant at times and rubbish at others. At least its taken the focus off the defense. :🙂
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=46134.msg1405559#msg1405559 date=1317096000]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=46134.msg1404875#msg1404875 date=1316963202]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=46134.msg1404869#msg1404869 date=1316962810]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=46134.msg1404818#msg1404818 date=1316954763]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=46134.msg1404816#msg1404816 date=1316954555]
Every game we've played this season - bar none - have demonstrated how much he bought to this team. We've looked stale and stagnant in comparison to the end of last season when he was finding space everywhere.
Why this club has such a powerful self-sabotage mechanism will puzzle me until the day I die.
[/quote]
You've got it let go mate ... The way you go on about him you'd think we sold Xabi or Beardo - we haven't.
And I think we did alright against Bolton and Stoke -> we dominated them and created numerous chances. We've had one bad game (where Meirless wouldn't have had) and played two great halves against Sunderland/Wolves followed by poor halves (Meirless would have helped? Who knows).
He's gone ... We'll be fine without him.
[/quote]
I'm not holding a candle for Ming - I'm simply making an observation on the mentality of so many posters on this site and, probably, supporters in general.
As to whether we'll be fine without him; time will tell but the overwhelming mountain of evidence at this point is to the contrary.
[/quote]
Come on mate ... Again, you're talking about this guy as if he's in the same level as Beardo or Alonso .... He had a good year last year, was a part of a great run when Kenny took over and something happens (I don't know, you don't know, everyone has ideas and that's it). We'll be ok this year with Stevie G and will be fine next year with whatever talent we bring in to replace him 'officially' (we'll get someone much better than him) and then, well ... we'll be fine and in Europe and we'll probably wait for his 'side of the story' to bring up the conversation.
[/quote]
Your obsession with all posts regarding Ming is becoming a touch worrying, mate.
[/quote]
Correct me if I'm wrong, I normally respond to the posters who bring up Ming after every match where we're disappointed with Lucas/Adam? I don't bring him up unless he gets lovingly described to such extremes ("We're finished without Ming," etc) - which is ironically matched by the way he was unappreciated last year until his goalscoring run, or by a few people when he left .... There's a 'middle ground' here ...
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=46134.msg1404875#msg1404875 date=1316963202]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=46134.msg1404869#msg1404869 date=1316962810]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=46134.msg1404818#msg1404818 date=1316954763]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=46134.msg1404816#msg1404816 date=1316954555]
Every game we've played this season - bar none - have demonstrated how much he bought to this team. We've looked stale and stagnant in comparison to the end of last season when he was finding space everywhere.
Why this club has such a powerful self-sabotage mechanism will puzzle me until the day I die.
[/quote]
You've got it let go mate ... The way you go on about him you'd think we sold Xabi or Beardo - we haven't.
And I think we did alright against Bolton and Stoke -> we dominated them and created numerous chances. We've had one bad game (where Meirless wouldn't have had) and played two great halves against Sunderland/Wolves followed by poor halves (Meirless would have helped? Who knows).
He's gone ... We'll be fine without him.
[/quote]
I'm not holding a candle for Ming - I'm simply making an observation on the mentality of so many posters on this site and, probably, supporters in general.
As to whether we'll be fine without him; time will tell but the overwhelming mountain of evidence at this point is to the contrary.
[/quote]
Come on mate ... Again, you're talking about this guy as if he's in the same level as Beardo or Alonso .... He had a good year last year, was a part of a great run when Kenny took over and something happens (I don't know, you don't know, everyone has ideas and that's it). We'll be ok this year with Stevie G and will be fine next year with whatever talent we bring in to replace him 'officially' (we'll get someone much better than him) and then, well ... we'll be fine and in Europe and we'll probably wait for his 'side of the story' to bring up the conversation.
[/quote]
Your obsession with all posts regarding Ming is becoming a touch worrying, mate.
[/quote]
Correct me if I'm wrong, I normally respond to the posters who bring up Ming after every match where we're disappointed with Lucas/Adam? I don't bring him up unless he gets lovingly described to such extremes ("We're finished without Ming," etc) - which is ironically matched by the way he was unappreciated last year until his goalscoring run, or by a few people when he left .... There's a 'middle ground' here ...
Ming had a great season last year, people seem too eager to play down his form. He wasn't shite under Hodgson either, I think that in itself is a bit of a myth. It took a while for him to hit his stride but once he bagged that goal against Everton he was pretty much flying for a good few months.
Those who are being a bit dismissive of him need look no further than the Arsenal game and the change his movement (along with Luis) brought to the side. You can see Suarez' frustration at the minute. It's like everyone else is standing behind him firing ammunition his way. Last season Suarez had Ming and Maxi running off him and showing good movement, now we're back to a flat midfield with no one willing to show for the ball and get in behind. It's costing us.
Those who are being a bit dismissive of him need look no further than the Arsenal game and the change his movement (along with Luis) brought to the side. You can see Suarez' frustration at the minute. It's like everyone else is standing behind him firing ammunition his way. Last season Suarez had Ming and Maxi running off him and showing good movement, now we're back to a flat midfield with no one willing to show for the ball and get in behind. It's costing us.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46134.msg1405611#msg1405611 date=1317112238]
Ming had a great season last year, people seem too eager to play down his form. He wasn't shite under Hodgson either, I think that in itself is a bit of a myth. It took a while for him to hit his stride but once he bagged that goal against Everton he was pretty much flying for a good few months.
Those who are being a bit dismissive of him need look no further than the Arsenal game and the change his movement (along with Luis) brought to the side. You can see Suarez' frustration at the minute. It's like everyone else is standing behind him firing ammunition his way. Last season Suarez had Ming and Maxi running off him and showing good movement, now we're back to a flat midfield with no one willing to show for the ball and get in behind. It's costing us.
[/quote]
Again, completely agree with this. Shouldn't have got rid. Shame he went although I know we tried to retain him. How hard is debatable though
Ming had a great season last year, people seem too eager to play down his form. He wasn't shite under Hodgson either, I think that in itself is a bit of a myth. It took a while for him to hit his stride but once he bagged that goal against Everton he was pretty much flying for a good few months.
Those who are being a bit dismissive of him need look no further than the Arsenal game and the change his movement (along with Luis) brought to the side. You can see Suarez' frustration at the minute. It's like everyone else is standing behind him firing ammunition his way. Last season Suarez had Ming and Maxi running off him and showing good movement, now we're back to a flat midfield with no one willing to show for the ball and get in behind. It's costing us.
[/quote]
Again, completely agree with this. Shouldn't have got rid. Shame he went although I know we tried to retain him. How hard is debatable though
I thought meireles was dreadful on the right (dreadful). adam was prefered to ming based on the assumption adam would give more going the other way and not be afraid to battle in the middle of the park. It's early days but is adam giving more going the other way than meireles could have. when we're under the cosh adam (and henderson) are a waste of space.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46134.msg1405611#msg1405611 date=1317112238]
Ming had a great season last year, people seem too eager to play down his form. He wasn't shite under Hodgson either, I think that in itself is a bit of a myth. It took a while for him to hit his stride but once he bagged that goal against Everton he was pretty much flying for a good few months.
Those who are being a bit dismissive of him need look no further than the Arsenal game and the change his movement (along with Luis) brought to the side. You can see Suarez' frustration at the minute. It's like everyone else is standing behind him firing ammunition his way. Last season Suarez had Ming and Maxi running off him and showing good movement, now we're back to a flat midfield with no one willing to show for the ball and get in behind. It's costing us.
[/quote]
Good posting as per usual Mark. We miss his movement already. He was always making space for himself and others. I was a big big fan of his. It's shit he plays for Chelsea.
Ming had a great season last year, people seem too eager to play down his form. He wasn't shite under Hodgson either, I think that in itself is a bit of a myth. It took a while for him to hit his stride but once he bagged that goal against Everton he was pretty much flying for a good few months.
Those who are being a bit dismissive of him need look no further than the Arsenal game and the change his movement (along with Luis) brought to the side. You can see Suarez' frustration at the minute. It's like everyone else is standing behind him firing ammunition his way. Last season Suarez had Ming and Maxi running off him and showing good movement, now we're back to a flat midfield with no one willing to show for the ball and get in behind. It's costing us.
[/quote]
Good posting as per usual Mark. We miss his movement already. He was always making space for himself and others. I was a big big fan of his. It's shit he plays for Chelsea.
doing my best nostradamus, I think adam will get more goals and assists than meireles this season.
[quote author=ILD link=topic=46134.msg1405660#msg1405660 date=1317116374]
Well Adam has two goals and three assists I think so he's doing well so far.
Doesn't mean we couldn't have done with Raul in our team though.
I think im going to quit talking about the subject. He's gone.
[/quote]
I think the issue for Lucas and Adam is that they miss the added protection of a third player infront of them right now, if Ming was here or Gerrard was fit I think their jobs would be made alot easier. I don't think Adam is particularly suited to playing in a midfield two. Personnel wise we've looked better over the last few years playing a variation of 433. Two flat midfielders in the middle, one ahead (in behind the frontline) who will make good movement off the ball and two wide strikers (or one and a winger).
I think if Gerrard comes back and stays fit for a length of time then Lucas and Adam will be ok. In the long term we probably need to invest in an extra body in there, but Adam is doing ok, two goals and three assists is a cracking return, it's just a shame his stamina levels let him down so badly past the 50/60 minute mark.
Well Adam has two goals and three assists I think so he's doing well so far.
Doesn't mean we couldn't have done with Raul in our team though.
I think im going to quit talking about the subject. He's gone.
[/quote]
I think the issue for Lucas and Adam is that they miss the added protection of a third player infront of them right now, if Ming was here or Gerrard was fit I think their jobs would be made alot easier. I don't think Adam is particularly suited to playing in a midfield two. Personnel wise we've looked better over the last few years playing a variation of 433. Two flat midfielders in the middle, one ahead (in behind the frontline) who will make good movement off the ball and two wide strikers (or one and a winger).
I think if Gerrard comes back and stays fit for a length of time then Lucas and Adam will be ok. In the long term we probably need to invest in an extra body in there, but Adam is doing ok, two goals and three assists is a cracking return, it's just a shame his stamina levels let him down so badly past the 50/60 minute mark.
Completely agree with that mark. I'd have been tempted to play Henderson in front of them whilst waiting for gerrard to come back. Once he's back we definitely should play him in front of them and a lot of the problems will be solved with that extra man. I also feel we attack better with three in the middle too.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=46134.msg1405774#msg1405774 date=1317128141]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46134.msg1405754#msg1405754 date=1317126007]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=46134.msg1405705#msg1405705 date=1317119841]
Was he given the goal?
[/quote]
No went down as an oggy.
[/quote]
naturally, so it's back to 1 goal, 3 assists.
[/quote]
You seem to delight in that...
Anyway, if its not a goal, its at least an assist.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46134.msg1405754#msg1405754 date=1317126007]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=46134.msg1405705#msg1405705 date=1317119841]
Was he given the goal?
[/quote]
No went down as an oggy.
[/quote]
naturally, so it's back to 1 goal, 3 assists.
[/quote]
You seem to delight in that...
Anyway, if its not a goal, its at least an assist.
There's a difference between not rating someone, and being happy when they fail and deliberately skewing facts to suit your agenda.
But carry on if you wish...
But carry on if you wish...
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=46134.msg1405790#msg1405790 date=1317131655]
There's a difference between not rating someone, and being happy when they fail and deliberately skewing facts to suit your agenda.
But carry on if you wish...
[/quote]
How am I skewing facts. Fact is he didn't score.
There's a difference between not rating someone, and being happy when they fail and deliberately skewing facts to suit your agenda.
But carry on if you wish...
[/quote]
How am I skewing facts. Fact is he didn't score.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=46134.msg1405794#msg1405794 date=1317133458]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=46134.msg1405790#msg1405790 date=1317131655]
There's a difference between not rating someone, and being happy when they fail and deliberately skewing facts to suit your agenda.
But carry on if you wish...
[/quote]
How am I skewing facts. Fact is he didn't score.
[/quote]
But you're happy he didn't get the credit for it?
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=46134.msg1405790#msg1405790 date=1317131655]
There's a difference between not rating someone, and being happy when they fail and deliberately skewing facts to suit your agenda.
But carry on if you wish...
[/quote]
How am I skewing facts. Fact is he didn't score.
[/quote]
But you're happy he didn't get the credit for it?
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=46134.msg1405796#msg1405796 date=1317133556]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=46134.msg1405794#msg1405794 date=1317133458]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=46134.msg1405790#msg1405790 date=1317131655]
There's a difference between not rating someone, and being happy when they fail and deliberately skewing facts to suit your agenda.
But carry on if you wish...
[/quote]
How am I skewing facts. Fact is he didn't score.
[/quote]
But you're happy he didn't get the credit for it?
[/quote]
I'm indifferent, he didn't get the goal and he shouldn't have.
You are the one who's skewing facts when you're claiming that he's scored 2 goals.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=46134.msg1405794#msg1405794 date=1317133458]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=46134.msg1405790#msg1405790 date=1317131655]
There's a difference between not rating someone, and being happy when they fail and deliberately skewing facts to suit your agenda.
But carry on if you wish...
[/quote]
How am I skewing facts. Fact is he didn't score.
[/quote]
But you're happy he didn't get the credit for it?
[/quote]
I'm indifferent, he didn't get the goal and he shouldn't have.
You are the one who's skewing facts when you're claiming that he's scored 2 goals.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=46134.msg1405797#msg1405797 date=1317133871]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=46134.msg1405796#msg1405796 date=1317133556]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=46134.msg1405794#msg1405794 date=1317133458]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=46134.msg1405790#msg1405790 date=1317131655]
There's a difference between not rating someone, and being happy when they fail and deliberately skewing facts to suit your agenda.
But carry on if you wish...
[/quote]
How am I skewing facts. Fact is he didn't score.
[/quote]
But you're happy he didn't get the credit for it?
[/quote]
I'm indifferent, he didn't get the goal and he shouldn't have.
You are the one who's skewing facts when you're claiming that he's scored 2 goals.
[/quote]
Ehhh... no I didn't.
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=46134.msg1405796#msg1405796 date=1317133556]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=46134.msg1405794#msg1405794 date=1317133458]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=46134.msg1405790#msg1405790 date=1317131655]
There's a difference between not rating someone, and being happy when they fail and deliberately skewing facts to suit your agenda.
But carry on if you wish...
[/quote]
How am I skewing facts. Fact is he didn't score.
[/quote]
But you're happy he didn't get the credit for it?
[/quote]
I'm indifferent, he didn't get the goal and he shouldn't have.
You are the one who's skewing facts when you're claiming that he's scored 2 goals.
[/quote]
Ehhh... no I didn't.
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=46134.msg1405798#msg1405798 date=1317133906]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=46134.msg1405797#msg1405797 date=1317133871]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=46134.msg1405796#msg1405796 date=1317133556]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=46134.msg1405794#msg1405794 date=1317133458]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=46134.msg1405790#msg1405790 date=1317131655]
There's a difference between not rating someone, and being happy when they fail and deliberately skewing facts to suit your agenda.
But carry on if you wish...
[/quote]
How am I skewing facts. Fact is he didn't score.
[/quote]
But you're happy he didn't get the credit for it?
[/quote]
I'm indifferent, he didn't get the goal and he shouldn't have.
You are the one who's skewing facts when you're claiming that he's scored 2 goals.
[/quote]
Ehhh... no I didn't.
[/quote]
Well I guess someone else is. Why are you bothering me then?
[quote author=Modo link=topic=46134.msg1405797#msg1405797 date=1317133871]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=46134.msg1405796#msg1405796 date=1317133556]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=46134.msg1405794#msg1405794 date=1317133458]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=46134.msg1405790#msg1405790 date=1317131655]
There's a difference between not rating someone, and being happy when they fail and deliberately skewing facts to suit your agenda.
But carry on if you wish...
[/quote]
How am I skewing facts. Fact is he didn't score.
[/quote]
But you're happy he didn't get the credit for it?
[/quote]
I'm indifferent, he didn't get the goal and he shouldn't have.
You are the one who's skewing facts when you're claiming that he's scored 2 goals.
[/quote]
Ehhh... no I didn't.
[/quote]
Well I guess someone else is. Why are you bothering me then?
Because of the way you're happy when one of our players fail and deliberately skewing facts to suit your agenda.
We're going around in circles here. I'm out.
We're going around in circles here. I'm out.
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