Pre Match - West Ham (H) - Weds

[rurikbird]

Wow he really said that ? When was this ? Recently ?

That means we've got to buy a world class right back to replace Trent, if he's moved into a different position.

So it's one world class midfielder, forward and a RB now. FSG - "You're having a laff fellas!"

It speaks to the depth of England’s men’s team that it made it to the final of Euro 2020 despite an injury to Trent Alexander-Arnold, who could credibly claim to be the best right back in the world right now. At 24, the young defender has not just won every club competition going with Liverpool, his hometown side, he has also contributed to the recent reinvention of the right back position, from dutiful defender to all-round creative threat. “I never like to play the position, I play the game,” Alexander-Arnold says. “You play the position, it limits you. It’s like playing with shackles on. I’ve always thought that with a sensible mind, play the game, get in positions that will hurt the opposition, and at the same time do the defensive work you need to do. It’s more: Play the game how it needs to be played.” — Oliver Franklin-Wallis, British GQ

https://www.gq.com/story/2022-world-cup-portfolio

Published on October 11, but clearly taken before the season start.

 

[dogboy]

Was Trent that poor? It seems every mistake or non sprint is magnified out of proportion. There were worse players wearing red last night.

 

[Frogfish]

Was Trent that poor? It seems every mistake or non sprint is magnified out of proportion. There were worse players wearing red last night.

Yes he was. And no I don't think anyone was worse.

 

[dogboy]

Yes he was. And no I don't think anyone was worse.

Fabinho for one. And he only played 20 minutes or so.

 

[mark1975]

Fabinho for one. And he only played 20 minutes or so.

He wasn't "worse". He was sluggish again like he has been off and on, but he didn't get targeted nor did he repeatedly show himself as lacking when attacked, Trent did. Everything that came down his side in the second half where they got one on one with him, resulted in anxious moments at the back. And he got a lot more protection last night than he has been lately. And that's the issue. If he doesn't get the protection then teams get a bypass into the box, if he does get protection and teams occasionally breach that, they get a bypass into the box. If he's attacked, I'd say his success rate on the edge of our box is less than half. He's poor. Players just coast past him.

Look at it this way, we faced the best team we've faced in the league so far on Sunday and kept them out, there were few moments down the right side where I thought we were going to get done, and that was Milner against one of the best left sided forwards in the game. Move forward a game with Trent back there, and all of the anxieties that have dogged us all season returned. And he wasn't up against anyone of real quality. It's not just him it effects, it's the whole backline. They suddenly look at sixes and sevens, doubts creep in, mistakes happen and so on.

It's a massive, massive issue and it's not being exaggerated or magnified, he's a fucking awful defender and to add insult to injury, he's now got lazy with it too.

Klopp should have put him in midfield years ago.

 

[jan]

Fabinho's form this season has been a big concern tbf

 

[iseered]

He wasn't "worse". He was sluggish again like he has been off and on, but he didn't get targeted nor did he repeatedly show himself as lacking when attacked, Trent did. Everything that came down his side in the second half where they got one on one with him, resulted in anxious moments at the back. And he got a lot more protection last night than he has been lately. And that's the issue. If he doesn't get the protection then teams get a bypass into the box, if he does get protection and teams occasionally breach that, they get a bypass into the box. If he's attacked, I'd say his success rate on the edge of our box is less than half. He's poor. Players just coast past him.

Look at it this way, we faced the best team we've faced in the league so far on Sunday and kept them out, there were few moments down the right side where I thought we were going to get done, and that was Milner against one of the best left sided forwards in the game. Move forward a game with Trent back there, and all of the anxieties that have dogged us all season returned. And he wasn't up against anyone of real quality. It's not just him it effects, it's the whole backline. They suddenly look at sixes and sevens, doubts creep in, mistakes happen and so on.

It's a massive, massive issue and it's not being exaggerated or magnified, he's a fucking awful defender and to add insult to injury, he's now got lazy with it too.

Klopp should have put him in midfield years ago.

Agree with everything but the last line. He still needs to learn how to defend in midfield, just like all our other midfielders.

 

[Hansern]

Trent wasnt very good yesterday but he wasnt at fault for Gomez having several brain farts including the penalty.

Fabinho was poor as well. Players run past him with ease these days. He really need to step up and build on the City performance.

I'd bench Trent against Forest if Konate is back btw.

 

[Frogfish]

Well done Tsimi but zero for Trent. Wow. just wow.

 

[Frogfish]

Fabinho for one. And he only played 20 minutes or so.

Nope. He let them past 3 times I think ... but at least he countered that with some good play & tackles/ball winning.

 

[Whaddapie]

TAA was at fault for the two best (non-penalty) chances that they created last night... He deliberately moved away from the long, high cross that the bloke volleyed right at Ali with about 20 minutes left, and then looked pitiful in that attempted 'tackle' for the chance that Millie saved us from, having initially positioned himself to win the ball.

He's always been poor at the back, but at least he used to try... This season (and much of last), he's swanning around the pitch like he feels that he's too good to be bothered to defend. And it's infuriating. He's a liability now. He reminds me of Emre f#$%ing Can at this point.

 

[rurikbird]

TAA was at fault for the two best (non-penalty) chances that they created last night... He deliberately moved away from the long, high cross that the bloke volleyed right at Ali with about 20 minutes left, and then looked pitiful in that attempted 'tackle' for the chance that Millie saved us from, having initially positioned himself to win the ball.

He's always been poor at the back, but at least he used to try... This season (and much of last), he's swanning around the pitch like he feels that he's too good to be bothered to defend. And it's infuriating. He's a liability now. He reminds me of Emre f#$%ing Can at this point.

He’s starting to remind me of Glen Johnson…

 

[Judge Jules]

It speaks to the depth of England’s men’s team that it made it to the final of Euro 2020 despite an injury to Trent Alexander-Arnold, who could credibly claim to be the best right back in the world right now. At 24, the young defender has not just won every club competition going with Liverpool, his hometown side, he has also contributed to the recent reinvention of the right back position, from dutiful defender to all-round creative threat. “I never like to play the position, I play the game,” Alexander-Arnold says. “You play the position, it limits you. It’s like playing with shackles on. I’ve always thought that with a sensible mind, play the game, get in positions that will hurt the opposition, and at the same time do the defensive work you need to do. It’s more: Play the game how it needs to be played.” — Oliver Franklin-Wallis, British GQ

https://www.gq.com/story/2022-world-cup-portfolio

Published on October 11, but clearly taken before the season start.

I find that bolded bit slightly worrying. I'm all for players using their initiative at times, but Trent seems to be saying he'll always prioritise that ahead of team plans and formations, and overall sounds a little bit up himself here. You're there for the team, lad, not the other way around.

 

[rurikbird]

We should have probably moved the Trent discussion into a separate thread… now we have like 3 separate conversations in here. Oh well.

 

[Delinquent]

I think Modo had it right when he said that Trent just doesn't look like he enjoys playing right back any more. He's become something of a showman and doesn't seem to see any glory in good defending - only in attacking numbers.

So, the natural inclination seems to be to play him in midfield. The thing is, I'm not convinced he'd be much good there, since so much of his effectiveness has come from his role in Klopp's system. Be it overlapping Salah or arriving from deep to whip in those vicious crosses. I don't think it's any coincidence that Trent's attacking returns have plummeted since he's been spending more time higher up the pitch. His tendency has been to drift infield, which has not only nullified one of his biggest weapons, but it's exposed some limitations to his game. His main threat of late has come from set pieces outside the box.

I don't really see how he slots neatly into any of the positions in our current midfield, either withdrawn or advanced. Perhaps he'd learn a new role over time, but I don't think there are any guarantees from what we've seen thus far.

 

[SummerOnions]

He tracked back great one time last night - our corner or throw or whatever went bad and he legged it back and recovered great. I'm not sure it's so straightforward that he doesn't care to defend I just think he is positionally shit

 

[darkstarexodus]

TAA was at fault for the two best (non-penalty) chances that they created last night... He deliberately moved away from the long, high cross that the bloke volleyed right at Ali with about 20 minutes left, and then looked pitiful in that attempted 'tackle' for the chance that Millie saved us from, having initially positioned himself to win the ball.

He's always been poor at the back, but at least he used to try... This season (and much of last), he's swanning around the pitch like he feels that he's too good to be bothered to defend. And it's infuriating. He's a liability now. He reminds me of Emre f#$%ing Can at this point.

This is the problem for me. I can live with a player failing when they give their best. I can live with Tactical tradeoffs that don't always come off.

But it's brutal to see a lack of effort.

 

[Fabio]

It's so frustrating because he could be a top tier fullback, or a middling midfielder. You'd think he'd try and cement himself as an all timer at rb

 

[mom]

Whether Trent enjoys playing RB or not shouldn’t make a difference. He’s a servant of the club and is paid handsomely to play where we ask him too. The absolute minimum we should get from Trent or any other player in any position is 100% effort and commitment. I’m not sure he’s giving that right now when it comes to his defensive duties

 

[StevieM]

Sell him to City, RM or PSG FOR £70m+

 

[Delinquent]

Whether Trent enjoys playing RB or not shouldn’t make a difference. He’s a servant of the club and is paid handsomely to play where we ask him too. The absolute minimum we should get from Trent or any other player in any position is 100% effort and commitment. I’m not sure he’s giving that right now when it comes to his defensive duties

I agree, but that's a fan's view. In practice, if you don't enjoy what you're doing then that's likely to reflect in your performances. There are obviously consummate professionals out there whose determination and professional pride see them give 100% whatever role they're given. Milner is a prime example. But I don't think Trent is one of those. Like most players, he needs to enjoy what he's doing to perform, and I think it's become pretty clear that he doesn't enjoy (or has become fed up of) defending. He sees his talents better utilised further up the pitch.

I agree with Fabs - I think if he wants to become an all-time great at this club then he needs to refocus his efforts on his current position and what he needs to do to excel there. Maybe a failed spell in midfield would help him to do that.

 

[Frogfish]

......... I don't think it's any coincidence that Trent's attacking returns have plummeted since he's been spending more time higher up the pitch. His tendency has been to drift infield, which has not only nullified one of his biggest weapons, but it's exposed some limitations to his game. His main threat of late has come from set pieces outside the box.

I don't really see how he slots neatly into any of the positions in our current midfield, either withdrawn or advanced. Perhaps he'd learn a new role over time, but I don't think there are any guarantees from what we've seen thus far.

That is exactly the situation we have. Klopp's team is evolving and his position, & formation Trent used to play in, seems to be one of those under threat. Trent moving into midfield more isn't a coincidence or likely him doing it off his own back, because of course the coaching staff see and know this. I'm sure I read somewhere that Klopp said it was under his instruction? However he no longer seems suited to RB whilst clearly hasn't found his footing with his midfield dalliance. More than any other player he is looking like the odd one out.

This is surely on Klopp, gone are Trent's overlapping runs and being more central more of the time means there are far fewer dangerous crosses coming in - reflected in his zero assists so far this season.
This also affects Nunez's chances by limiting the number of balls that would suit both his aerial ability and those 6 yd goal poaching opportunities he thrives on.

 

[the count]

 

[Judge Jules]

Always enjoy these. Thanks for posting. A few observations:

1. For a whole variety of reasons I really like the way Jürgen and some of our players make a point of greeting other club staff;
2. Nunez is one of those who do it and has a more settled look about him - the other players were made up for him when he scored;
3. Thiago's another and has a kind of quiet authority which helps the group ethos - I can see why Bayern were sorry to see him go.