Pre Match - West Ham (H) - Weds

[peekay]

Shit, I've been calling him Ramsey for weeks.

Who the fuck is Ramsey?

Is this my @doctor_mac Raheem Sterling moment?

He isn't called Ramsey Patterson or something mad?

We bought Ramsey over the summer but then swapped him for Patterson with Everton in the last hour of the transfer window. It was all hush hush to prevent the issues associated with Everton Liverpool transfer. The club only let select members of the public know. Rurik was informed by email by Julian Ward but he let it slip by mistake a couple of weeks ago.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

Trent has failed the test again.

What’s up with him ? It’s not as if he has suddenly become a lousy RB overnight. He was fine when we won the CL and the PL.

Why the sudden dip in form ?

I don’t think it’s tactical because he’s had lots of cover this match and still played poorly.

 

[rurikbird]

We bought Ramsey over the summer but then swapped him for Patterson with Everton in the last hour of the transfer window. It was all hush hush to prevent the issues associated with Everton Liverpool transfer. The club only let select members of the public know. Rurik was informed by email by Julian Ward but he let it slip by mistake a couple of weeks ago.

Yes, as long as they are both injured or playing for reserves no one would know the difference.

 

[rurikbird]

Trent has failed the test again.

What’s up with him ? It’s not as if he has suddenly become a lousy RB overnight. He was fine when we won the CL and the PL.

Why the sudden dip in form ?

I don’t think it’s tactical because he’s had lots of cover this match and still played poorly.

Some of his passing was good, no? I think it’s simple - he just doesn’t want to defend, he knows it’s not his strength and it brings him no joy. We talked about “De Bruyne at right-back” - well, this is why the actual De Bruyne or Pirlo don’t play right-back! It worked for us for a time, but it can’t work forever.

You can’t fool your subconscious nature - you may think you want something, you may try very hard to convince yourself, but in the end who you really are shows on the football pitch and Trent is not a defender, simple as. I will be really surprised if he manages to turn it around - I think at this point it’s all but inevitable he ends up in another position, at the very least a WB in a 3 at the back system. His comments about “playing the game, not the position” sealed it for me:



I just wish Klopp predicted this and moved proactively towards this evolution instead of being forced to do it because the status-quo is becoming unsustainable.

 

[StevieM]

Trent has failed the test again.

What’s up with him ? It’s not as if he has suddenly become a lousy RB overnight. He was fine when we won the CL and the PL.

Why the sudden dip in form ?

I don’t think it’s tactical because he’s had lots of cover this match and still played poorly.

I feel like these sort of things happen regularly to young sports stars that break through at a high level early in their career - like a bowler having to redevelop their run up, a batsman their stance, a golfer their swing, etc

Patch if bad form, where his weaknesses are being brutally exposed and every single thing he does is being overanalysed to death.

Maybe it’s like getting the yips in golf or like a striker overthinking finishing - that moment of hesitation to think about whether to take a step to close down is all it takes for an error to be amplified.

It must be incredibly hard to be consistently good - so it’s not surprising it’s happening.

I’d imagine it’ll just take time for him to play back into form, whereas the expectation is that it’ll be instant.

You’ve also got to think that the right CB and the right sided midfielder changing regularly doesn’t help.

 

[KopRed]

His passes have not been great recently. And he was a liability in defence, even with better cover. That desperate failed pull back of Benrahma was sad. And I don't think Benrahma is even that good a player?

He is beginning to look like a luxury player. When teams are doing well, he will add an additional unpredictability and range to the team. When teams are not doing well and have to dig in, he can't be rely upon.

 

[King Binny]

 

[Frogfish]

Where’s this Scottish kid? I’m never going to remember his name until i see him play.

Ramsey scored in his first game back, for the U21s.

 

[Frogfish]

I can't recall the last time he played well. Even Trent as woeful as he is at times has the occasional game where he looks class. Fabinho has been playing as if he's heavily sedated for months now.

There is usually a 4-6 week period every season where he's dreadful and then he snaps out of it, so far he hasn't snapped out of it this year. The real problem isn't so much that he's playing badly its that we can't replace him.

That would be a few days ago vs. City. How old are you? I'd be a little worried with that memory loss and go see a doctor (not Dr. Mac, he can't help you).

 

[Frogfish]

We bought Ramsey over the summer but then swapped him for Patterson with Everton in the last hour of the transfer window. It was all hush hush to prevent the issues associated with Everton Liverpool transfer. The club only let select members of the public know. Rurik was informed by email by Julian Ward but he let it slip by mistake a couple of weeks ago.

And now he's blabbing away in this thread ! I'm afraid he'll lose his ITK status.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

Some of his passing was good, no? I think it’s simple - he just doesn’t want to defend, he knows it’s not his strength and it brings him no joy. We talked about “De Bruyne at right-back” - well, this is why the actual De Bruyne or Pirlo don’t play right-back! It worked for us for a time, but it can’t work forever.

You can’t fool your subconscious nature - you may think you want something, you may try very hard to convince yourself, but in the end who you really are shows on the football pitch and Trent is not a defender, simple as. I will be really surprised if he manages to turn it around - I think at this point it’s all but inevitable he ends up in another position, at the very least a WB in a 3 at the back system. His comments about “playing the game, not the position” sealed it for me:



I just wish Klopp predicted this and moved proactively towards this evolution instead of being forced to do it because the status-quo is becoming unsustainable.

Wow he really said that ? When was this ? Recently ?

That means we've got to buy a world class right back to replace Trent, if he's moved into a different position.

So it's one world class midfielder, forward and a RB now. FSG - "You're having a laff fellas!"

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

On 2nd thought, can Trent play the Jude Bellingham role ? What if he's converted into one ? Can he dribble ? Shoot and defend ? Play box to box ?

Or create a new Pirlo/Dunga position for him ? We don't play with that sort of system though.

Hmm..food for thought.

 

[tomasjj]

Seems to have forgotten that it is a team game, and that he is no Beckham, going on those words.

 

[tomasjj]

Fabinho was good against City, getting back into it.
What he then doesn´t need is another position to play, on the left side of midfield.
He needs to be in his regular spot to recapture his form.

 

[Hansern]

Some of his passing was good, no? I think it’s simple - he just doesn’t want to defend, he knows it’s not his strength and it brings him no joy. We talked about “De Bruyne at right-back” - well, this is why the actual De Bruyne or Pirlo don’t play right-back! It worked for us for a time, but it can’t work forever.

You can’t fool your subconscious nature - you may think you want something, you may try very hard to convince yourself, but in the end who you really are shows on the football pitch and Trent is not a defender, simple as. I will be really surprised if he manages to turn it around - I think at this point it’s all but inevitable he ends up in another position, at the very least a WB in a 3 at the back system. His comments about “playing the game, not the position” sealed it for me:



I just wish Klopp predicted this and moved proactively towards this evolution instead of being forced to do it because the status-quo is becoming unsustainable.

I think a move to 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 would actually suit us pretty good going forward. I dont think Klopp has favored 3 at the back through out his managerial career, so I'm not sure its something that would happen with him in charge.

For Trent, if there is no way back as a RB in this team then he could play the role Elliott has been playing these last few games I reckon. I'm not sure if I'd want him in central midfield given his defensive limitations.

For example, in a 4-2-2-2 or a 4-4-2.

Alisson
Gomez Konate Virgil Robbo
Fabinho Thiago
Trent Diaz
Salah Firmino

 

[Modo]

I am beginning to think you think everyone is shit in this team. Jones is one of the best young players in Europe - he proved it for us in the pandemic season. Needs a few games to get back into 100% form, hope Klopp starts him in the next game.

Nah, I don't think all of them are shit. Only about 80% (with an error margin of about 20%).
The pandemic season was like 1.5 years ago and the league was already in the bag.
I'll start backing him more when he stops doing his hold the ball routine every game.

 

[KopRed]

Tsimikas was really good. It used to be our most worrisome position.

 

[Hansern]

Indeed. Shame we dont have any real competition for Trent and the RB spot.

 

[iseered]

People say move Trent to midfield, but our midfielders do a lot of defending. Thiago, Hendo, Fabinho, Milner, defend, defend, defend. Wherever you put Trent he will be expected to defend. He got away with in the past because the team did so well as a unit, but now that he's forced to pick up the slack it's a problem.

Either we get back to working as a perfect collective, or Trent learns how to defend. Moving him won't change much.

 

[tomasjj]

he needs to get off the bong, and a proper kick up the arse
no more of this primadonna shite

 

[Hansern]

He switches off and gets into a daze during games. It seems to have happened after he had Covid.
I wonder if he still feels some long Covid effects that is hampering him. He isnt a good defender in all honesty, but some of his decision making and judgement of the ball etc seems to be different these days.
Small percentages like this can have great impacts on your game at top level I reckon.

Might not be anything in it, but I have thought for a long time that he has struggled even more after Covid.

 

[keniget]

Like others, I saw him in pre-season and thought he'd put too much weight / muscle on.

Beyond that, I've on / off wondered if the hype has gone to his head a bit too much. He scored earlier in the season and there were shades of that classic Stevie Me celebration in him.... but perhaps I'm reading into things too much.

I'm not sure what the solution is but he's too good a player to give up on (as it feels like some are at the point of doing).

I'd hope that when we finally buy a couple midfielders and Klopp figures out how to get the best out of Nunez, Diaz and co that it'll all settle down.

 

[Donavan Ried]

Trent the weak spot again and as a result, Gomez back to being indecisive and rash.

Any remotely biggish game I'd put Milner or another at rightback. Trent got loads of protection today and was still all over the place when asked to defend.

Could we not trade Gomez for Arsenal's version of VVD, Saliba ...?

I have no idea how TAA can be regarded as the Best RB in the world. Some of these Football writes and Pundit need to stop hitting the chronic so hard

 

[Donavan Ried]

Some of his passing was good, no? I think it’s simple - he just doesn’t want to defend, he knows it’s not his strength and it brings him no joy. We talked about “De Bruyne at right-back” - well, this is why the actual De Bruyne or Pirlo don’t play right-back! It worked for us for a time, but it can’t work forever.

You can’t fool your subconscious nature - you may think you want something, you may try very hard to convince yourself, but in the end who you really are shows on the football pitch and Trent is not a defender, simple as. I will be really surprised if he manages to turn it around - I think at this point it’s all but inevitable he ends up in another position, at the very least a WB in a 3 at the back system. His comments about “playing the game, not the position” sealed it for me:



I just wish Klopp predicted this and moved proactively towards this evolution instead of being forced to do it because the status-quo is becoming unsustainable.

Part of the game is defending

 

[Brizzle]

For me one of the biggest changes in Trent is his positioning when we have the ball. Our trademark used to be him & Robbo hugging the touchline, switching the play relentlessly and overlapping their respective wide forward. More often than not Trent is 'in between the lines' of the penalty area and so when we are attacking down the left we have no option to switch and stretch the play. He also very rarely overlaps Mo, which I suspect is down to confidence in defending/tracking back.

We need him back to his lethal best in attack which would in turn make opposition teams have to be more conservative down that side of the pitch. His current positioning and way of playing the role is breaking a fundamental part of our system.

 

[Donavan Ried]

I think a move to 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 would actually suit us pretty good going forward. I dont think Klopp has favored 3 at the back through out his managerial career, so I'm not sure its something that would happen with him in charge.

For Trent, if there is no way back as a RB in this team then he could play the role Elliott has been playing these last few games I reckon. I'm not sure if I'd want him in central midfield given his defensive limitations.

For example, in a 4-2-2-2 or a 4-4-2.

Alisson
Gomez Konate Virgil Robbo
Fabinho Thiago
Trent Diaz
Salah Firmino

Would Trent try to get back and help the right back out as Elliot does..? I think not

 

[Squiggles]

Henderson also had a low cross diverted on to the crossbar by Zouma, who injured himself in the process. “That’s how your cat feels,” sang the Kop as the defender received lengthy treatment.

 

[Donavan Ried]

For me one of the biggest changes in Trent is his positioning when we have the ball. Our trademark used to be him & Robbo hugging the touchline, switching the play relentlessly and overlapping their respective wide forward. More often than not Trent is 'in between the lines' of the penalty area and so when we are attacking down the left we have no option to switch and stretch the play. He also very rarely overlaps Mo, which I suspect is down to confidence in defending/tracking back.

We need him back to his lethal best in attack which would in turn make opposition teams have to be more conservative down that side of the pitch. His current positioning and way of playing the role is breaking a fundamental part of our system.

Drop the "which I suspect is down to confidence in defending/tracking back." and you are spot on

 

[King Binny]

 

[mark1975]

Drop the "which I suspect is down to confidence in defending/tracking back." and you are spot on

Quite, I don't think it's down to confidence at all, he's just got more and more lax defensively as he's got more and more progressive offensively. It's a no brainer and it's a blindspot that really infuriates me with Klopp.

I don't agree with your assessment though that he can't and won't defend from higher up the pitch. He has enough defensive nous to play in midfield, he knows how to put a foot in, he might not be as naturally defensively inclined and sometimes he needs a rocket up his arse to point out the blatantly obvious on the pitch, but he would provide a solid flank with a solid right back behind him.