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Pre Match - Spurs (A) - Sat 17:30

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Actually my opinion was that we let this one slide...as obviously nothing will come out of it.

But if we are appealing/asking for audio log etc, then I wish we would go all in?

Starting with Darren England being on the payroll of one of the competitors 2 days before the game.
1. Why did he choose to put the still image for the VaR decision making when the rule clearly states not to do so?
2. What is the chronology of the supposed miscommunication on the offside goal. Is there any attempted cover up?
3. Are the two clear infringement of the rules above in anyway connected to the said UAE game and the pay involved? How much was the pay involved (both tangible and intangible....where did he stay, who did he meet?)

Then with the FA as well

1. Is the FA willing to investigate England on PGMOL on those lines?
2. If they are not willing to investigate, then is there any connection with this and their poor attempts to enforce financial fair play rule.

We should put the FA in a position where they have no choice but to throw the PGMOL under the bus or make Darren England the scapegoat.


That's a bit nutty, but I just hope that if they take the legal route then don't do half arsed stuff and embarrass ourselves further. Lawyer up properly....
 
binomial said:
I mean I've no idea how the appeal process works, I'd assume the FA would want us to collate a whole bunch of overriding evidence bullet pointing why it wasn't deemed worthy of a red & from the images I can't see how it's overturned. Whereas the Mac one every man and his dog could see from any image any angle, it was never a red.

I actually think the Virgil red was less worthy than Jones' because he's attempting to play the ball and it's in no way a dangerous tackle.
Click to expand...

Nah.. Virgil went through the player to get the ball - Curtis went through the ball to get the player.
 
kingjulian said:
Actually my opinion was that we let this one slide...as obviously nothing will come out of it.

But if we are appealing/asking for audio log etc, then I wish we would go all in?

Starting with Darren England being on the payroll of one of the competitors 2 days before the game.
1. Why did he choose to put the still image for the VaR decision making when the rule clearly states not to do so?
2. What is the chronology of the supposed miscommunication on the offside goal. Is there any attempted cover up?
3. Are the two clear infringement of the rules above in anyway connected to the said UAE game and the pay involved? How much was the pay involved (both tangible and intangible....where did he stay, who did he meet?)

Then with the FA as well

1. Is the FA willing to investigate England on PGMOL on those lines?
2. If they are not willing to investigate, then is there any connection with this and their poor attempts to enforce financial fair play rule.

We should put the FA in a position where they have no choice but to throw the PGMOL under the bus or make Darren England the scapegoat.


That's a bit nutty, but I just hope that if they take the legal route then don't do half arsed stuff and embarrass ourselves further. Lawyer up properly....
Click to expand...
I think part of the objective of the LFC statement is to stop this becoming a "throw one person under the bus" type of exercise. The PGMOL statement that this was "serious human error" does just that and points a finger at England saying he fucked up, but our statement says that is not acceptable, as, regardless of human error, there should be enough process that guards against it.

Also, logically, how can PGMOL state "this was down to human error" and "there will be a complete investigation"? Logically, by their own words, they have already arrived at the conclusion before the investigation has taken place (if it ever does).
 
peterhague said:
No.

Again: why?
Click to expand...
Generally people who try to change the game have no real experience of playing the game.. Remembering back to the WC in the US in 94 when they wanted in introduce four 25 minute quarters instead of 2 halfs

For some reason you think a leg breaking tackle only deserves a penalty.... Or if some bellend walks up and headbutts say Alisson, our players react and a massive brawl starts where people are beating the shit out of each other... What happens then? A penalty shoot out?
 
kingjulian said:
Actually my opinion was that we let this one slide...as obviously nothing will come out of it.

But if we are appealing/asking for audio log etc, then I wish we would go all in?

Starting with Darren England being on the payroll of one of the competitors 2 days before the game.
1. Why did he choose to put the still image for the VaR decision making when the rule clearly states not to do so?
2. What is the chronology of the supposed miscommunication on the offside goal. Is there any attempted cover up?
3. Are the two clear infringement of the rules above in anyway connected to the said UAE game and the pay involved? How much was the pay involved (both tangible and intangible....where did he stay, who did he meet?)

Then with the FA as well

1. Is the FA willing to investigate England on PGMOL on those lines?
2. If they are not willing to investigate, then is there any connection with this and their poor attempts to enforce financial fair play rule.

We should put the FA in a position where they have no choice but to throw the PGMOL under the bus or make Darren England the scapegoat.


That's a bit nutty, but I just hope that if they take the legal route then don't do half arsed stuff and embarrass ourselves further. Lawyer up properly....
Click to expand...

We need to be putting pressure on this. And I hope some online sleuths start connecting these dots. It is fucked up. The VAR team was jet lagged from an all expenses paid trip to UAE, making bank (probably way over market rate - should they have to declare this? I think so) and lots of goodwill with the City owners.

Imagine if John Henry was paying to a bunch of refs to referee some dodgy New York City 5 a side 2 days before City play. Wild.
 
Richard Keys - From his Blog

PGMOL is now in crisis

PUBLISHED: MONDAY, 02 OCTOBER 2023
Let’s be kind. It pushes the bounds of credibility to suggest that Darren England and his colleagues in VAR believed that Luis Diaz’s goal had been given and that they were simply confirming that it should stand. That somewhere there was a confusion of messages. That the most horrendous of errors can somehow be put down to a ‘momentary lapse in concentration’.

According to my Daily Mail today - and their breakdown of what happened entitled ‘story of a shambles’, England and his assistant Dan Cook applied lines as usual and saw the goal was onside. (No they didn’t). The Mail goes on to claim that England and Cook thought the on-field decision was ‘goal’ when it was actually offside. (No they didn’t). So - claim the Mail - when they told ref Simon Hooper ‘check complete’ they mistakenly confirmed that the offside decision should stand. (Nonsense).
The Mail complete this section of their story by saying that PGMOL insiders have described the incident as a ‘momentary lapse of concentration’. Stop digging guys. Please. This ‘leaked’ version of events is almost as embarrassing as the decision itself. Oh - and the broadcaster that exposed the mess, that the Mail don’t want to name, was beINSPORTS.
I know people in the U.K. were confused by their coverage. Your host broadcaster missed the incident and went into meltdown when they saw our tweet. They knew they had to discuss it which is why they also missed the start of the second-half. It had nothing to do with long ad-breaks.
Anyway, it’s impossible for the above ‘leaked’ version of events to be true. The guys in the bunker are in constant contact with on-field officials. They would’ve known exactly what they were checking for. We all saw the assistants’ flag go up. We all knew the goal had been disallowed. VAR would’ve heard the officials talking about the decision. VAR simply didn’t do it’s job properly. This was human error. A horrendous error and had nothing to do with the equipment.
I’m going to generous here and say that I have some sympathy for England and Cook - in fact, all the guys in VAR. Why? Because current match-day officials shouldn’t be in VAR and how long have I been saying that for?
It’s unfair to ask them to learn a skill that takes years to become good at in - what was it, four extra days of summer training Howard Webb told us? And there’s the occasional match-day appearance of course, but Webb claimed the four extra days would end the VAR errors. Remember?
Watching football on tv for professional reasons takes years to become proficient at. You learn to look for things that aren’t obvious to the casual game watcher. Instinct helps. It’s different. I’m sorry - it just is. Maybe that’s why Andy and I saw immediately that Diaz’s goal was good - and that was without a replay.
Refs should be allowed to concentrate on getting better at what they do on the field and junk VAR responsibilities.
I’ve said this before - VAR should be staffed by people like Chris Foy, Mark Halsey, Peter Walton - X-refs who know the laws and can be trained to understand the skill of watching the game on tv as a pro. We need full-time specialist VAR operators.
Right now people like Foy and Walton are being sent out every Monday to make excuses for a catalogue of errors committed previous weekend. What a waste of time. Surely it would be better to divert funds into constructively trying to make things better - not paying people to trot out well rehearsed excuses for poor match-day performances?
Why are we even drawing lines? What’s wrong with embracing the semi-automated WC technology that’s being used so successfully in the CL? I’ve heard that the PL weren’t interested in it because it’s costly to implement. I hope that’s not true. Costly? We’re talking about the richest league in the world here. How costly will Saturday’s meltdown ultimately prove to be for everybody? Especially Liverpool, who have every right to express their frustration.
And Liverpool weren’t alone - 24 hours after the incident at Spurs, Steve Cooper and Thomas Franck were lamenting another day of errors. Cooper of all people, who’s the most tolerant of all the PL managers - I guess because his dad was a ref. And a very good one.
Howard Webb (showbiz showbiz showbiz) has got to get a grip. Already this season the PGMOL has admitted to mistakes on 14 occasions. That’s mind boggling - 14 times already. And that’s not to mention others that they should’ve admitted.
I welcomed Webb’s return to our game. I genuinely thought he’d make a positive difference. He hasn’t.
Granted - he inherited a lot of this mess from his arrogant predecessor Mike Riley, who surrounded himself with incompetents in order that his own inadequacies weren’t shown up. Do you remember Riley being forced into a climbdown over the use of monitors? And his instructions to refs when he was forced to change that they should always go with decisions made by VAR? Some of these habits continue today.
Webb has got to get tough and fire some of the people he inherited that simply aren’t good enough. If you don’t know who they are I can help there Howard. I probably hear more about the frustrations of the good people than you do. Leaks eh? No. The PGMOL wouldn’t have leakers. Ah. Wait a minute…..
If you want genuine transparency Howard, junk the scripted tv shows with the carefully chosen inserts and let us all hear what happens when a ref goes to the monitor. And don’t hide behind saying FIFA won’t allow it. Push the case. If there is nothing to hide - why not?
And the recent habit of allowing officials to ref overseas has got to stop. Why is this happening? Is it so the boys can earn an extra few quid? It can’t be anything else. That’s not a good reason. Pay them more at home.
That Michael Oliver was in the UAE on Thursday and therefore couldn’t ref Saturday was a disgrace. As we know, England and Cook were with him. If Oliver was too tired to ref (he was 4th at Spurs) why were England and Cook asked to work VAR? Is this job not considered to be as important as taking the whistle? I think we’ve found out now that it is.
I make the trip to and from the Middle East frequently. It’s tiring when the turn around is as tight as the guys were forced into. And I’m not suggesting for a moment a late night might’ve been had, but a few of the PGMOL guys have got form when it comes to that sort of thing. Anyone else remember ‘Indonesia-gate’ - the ‘boozy charity trip to Indonesia’ as The Lying Rag described it? I’m sure Martin Atkinson does. He’s one of Oliver’s bosses now.
Never has there been a time when our refs were so poor. And this is after spending millions on coaching, life-style, salaries, match-fees, dietary requirements…..I could go on.
Never has there been a time when confidence in the PGMOL has been so low. We are in a crisis. And please don’t tell me the scrutiny is unfair. It isn’t. In any other business if people aren’t doing their jobs - they’re out.
Refs wanted a more important match-day role. They wanted higher profiles. Well they’ve got both. Howard Webb has got to cut out his open-necked media appearances and get down to basics - get his hands dirty and get a grip on an organisation that is failing. And failing badly.
 
Irishanfield said:
Generally people who try to change the game have no real experience of playing the game.. Remembering back to the WC in the US in 94 when they wanted in introduce four 25 minute quarters instead of 2 halfs

For some reason you think a leg breaking tackle only deserves a penalty.... Or if some bellend walks up and headbutts say Alisson, our players react and a massive brawl starts where people are beating the shit out of each other... What happens then? A penalty shoot out?
Click to expand...

You think someone pulling back a player just outside the box in the last 5 seconds of injury time when he would probably have gone on to score and win his team the league title for the first time in his club's history should be punished by a having the opposing team face the resulting free kick with 9 defenders instead of 10 defenders and almost certainly defending it successfully.

And you call that justice??

The point is that reducing a team to 10 players in order to punish a player is totally arbitrary.

If the team should be punished, a penalty or even multiple penalties, is a more rational way of redressing the balance. If the player should be punished, then that player should suffer a lengthy ban and/or fine.

Sending him off instead is a totally unreliable way of achieving either of those goals.
 
mark1975 said:
So I hear we're racists now. What the club's official line on this? Should we all be racists now? I'm a busy man
Click to expand...

I'm getting a tshirt printed.
Duno what others are doing.


Honestly, I think players get vile racist abuse on an almost daily basis. This IS NOT an excuse to be racist or that nothing should be done about it.
However, I think this is part of Spurs seeking to put pressure back on LFC and away from the mass of issues.
 
737Max said:
Richard Keys - From his Blog

PGMOL is now in crisis

PUBLISHED: MONDAY, 02 OCTOBER 2023
Let’s be kind. It pushes the bounds of credibility to suggest that Darren England and his colleagues in VAR believed that Luis Diaz’s goal had been given and that they were simply confirming that it should stand. That somewhere there was a confusion of messages. That the most horrendous of errors can somehow be put down to a ‘momentary lapse in concentration’.

According to my Daily Mail today - and their breakdown of what happened entitled ‘story of a shambles’, England and his assistant Dan Cook applied lines as usual and saw the goal was onside. (No they didn’t). The Mail goes on to claim that England and Cook thought the on-field decision was ‘goal’ when it was actually offside. (No they didn’t). So - claim the Mail - when they told ref Simon Hooper ‘check complete’ they mistakenly confirmed that the offside decision should stand. (Nonsense).
The Mail complete this section of their story by saying that PGMOL insiders have described the incident as a ‘momentary lapse of concentration’. Stop digging guys. Please. This ‘leaked’ version of events is almost as embarrassing as the decision itself. Oh - and the broadcaster that exposed the mess, that the Mail don’t want to name, was beINSPORTS.
I know people in the U.K. were confused by their coverage. Your host broadcaster missed the incident and went into meltdown when they saw our tweet. They knew they had to discuss it which is why they also missed the start of the second-half. It had nothing to do with long ad-breaks.
Anyway, it’s impossible for the above ‘leaked’ version of events to be true. The guys in the bunker are in constant contact with on-field officials. They would’ve known exactly what they were checking for. We all saw the assistants’ flag go up. We all knew the goal had been disallowed. VAR would’ve heard the officials talking about the decision. VAR simply didn’t do it’s job properly. This was human error. A horrendous error and had nothing to do with the equipment.
I’m going to generous here and say that I have some sympathy for England and Cook - in fact, all the guys in VAR. Why? Because current match-day officials shouldn’t be in VAR and how long have I been saying that for?
It’s unfair to ask them to learn a skill that takes years to become good at in - what was it, four extra days of summer training Howard Webb told us? And there’s the occasional match-day appearance of course, but Webb claimed the four extra days would end the VAR errors. Remember?
Watching football on tv for professional reasons takes years to become proficient at. You learn to look for things that aren’t obvious to the casual game watcher. Instinct helps. It’s different. I’m sorry - it just is. Maybe that’s why Andy and I saw immediately that Diaz’s goal was good - and that was without a replay.
Refs should be allowed to concentrate on getting better at what they do on the field and junk VAR responsibilities.
I’ve said this before - VAR should be staffed by people like Chris Foy, Mark Halsey, Peter Walton - X-refs who know the laws and can be trained to understand the skill of watching the game on tv as a pro. We need full-time specialist VAR operators.
Right now people like Foy and Walton are being sent out every Monday to make excuses for a catalogue of errors committed previous weekend. What a waste of time. Surely it would be better to divert funds into constructively trying to make things better - not paying people to trot out well rehearsed excuses for poor match-day performances?
Why are we even drawing lines? What’s wrong with embracing the semi-automated WC technology that’s being used so successfully in the CL? I’ve heard that the PL weren’t interested in it because it’s costly to implement. I hope that’s not true. Costly? We’re talking about the richest league in the world here. How costly will Saturday’s meltdown ultimately prove to be for everybody? Especially Liverpool, who have every right to express their frustration.
And Liverpool weren’t alone - 24 hours after the incident at Spurs, Steve Cooper and Thomas Franck were lamenting another day of errors. Cooper of all people, who’s the most tolerant of all the PL managers - I guess because his dad was a ref. And a very good one.
Howard Webb (showbiz showbiz showbiz) has got to get a grip. Already this season the PGMOL has admitted to mistakes on 14 occasions. That’s mind boggling - 14 times already. And that’s not to mention others that they should’ve admitted.
I welcomed Webb’s return to our game. I genuinely thought he’d make a positive difference. He hasn’t.
Granted - he inherited a lot of this mess from his arrogant predecessor Mike Riley, who surrounded himself with incompetents in order that his own inadequacies weren’t shown up. Do you remember Riley being forced into a climbdown over the use of monitors? And his instructions to refs when he was forced to change that they should always go with decisions made by VAR? Some of these habits continue today.
Webb has got to get tough and fire some of the people he inherited that simply aren’t good enough. If you don’t know who they are I can help there Howard. I probably hear more about the frustrations of the good people than you do. Leaks eh? No. The PGMOL wouldn’t have leakers. Ah. Wait a minute…..
If you want genuine transparency Howard, junk the scripted tv shows with the carefully chosen inserts and let us all hear what happens when a ref goes to the monitor. And don’t hide behind saying FIFA won’t allow it. Push the case. If there is nothing to hide - why not?
And the recent habit of allowing officials to ref overseas has got to stop. Why is this happening? Is it so the boys can earn an extra few quid? It can’t be anything else. That’s not a good reason. Pay them more at home.
That Michael Oliver was in the UAE on Thursday and therefore couldn’t ref Saturday was a disgrace. As we know, England and Cook were with him. If Oliver was too tired to ref (he was 4th at Spurs) why were England and Cook asked to work VAR? Is this job not considered to be as important as taking the whistle? I think we’ve found out now that it is.
I make the trip to and from the Middle East frequently. It’s tiring when the turn around is as tight as the guys were forced into. And I’m not suggesting for a moment a late night might’ve been had, but a few of the PGMOL guys have got form when it comes to that sort of thing. Anyone else remember ‘Indonesia-gate’ - the ‘boozy charity trip to Indonesia’ as The Lying Rag described it? I’m sure Martin Atkinson does. He’s one of Oliver’s bosses now.
Never has there been a time when our refs were so poor. And this is after spending millions on coaching, life-style, salaries, match-fees, dietary requirements…..I could go on.
Never has there been a time when confidence in the PGMOL has been so low. We are in a crisis. And please don’t tell me the scrutiny is unfair. It isn’t. In any other business if people aren’t doing their jobs - they’re out.
Refs wanted a more important match-day role. They wanted higher profiles. Well they’ve got both. Howard Webb has got to cut out his open-necked media appearances and get down to basics - get his hands dirty and get a grip on an organisation that is failing. And failing badly.
Click to expand...

Hairy hands claiming he's got special telly watching skills is quite the reach.
 
mark1975 said:
So I hear we're racists now. What the club's official line on this? Should we all be racists now? I'm a busy man
Click to expand...
While the pricks who posted the racist comments I just get the way spurs issued their statement as using something more of an excuse to deflect from what happened in the game..
Does anyone know when the comments were posted but the statement was issued 2 days after the game...
 
peterhague said:
You think someone pulling back a player just outside the box in the last 5 seconds of injury time when he would probably have gone on to score and win his team the league title for the first time in his club's history should be punished by a having the opposing team face the resulting free kick with 9 defenders instead of 10 defenders and almost certainly defending it successfully.

And you call that justice??

The point is that reducing a team to 10 players in order to punish a player is totally arbitrary.

If the team should be punished, a penalty or even multiple penalties, is a more rational way of redressing the balance. If the player should be punished, then that player should suffer a lengthy ban and/or fine.

Sending him off instead is a totally unreliable way of achieving either of those goals.
Click to expand...
So are you saying their should be a penalty shoot out if multiple players are sent off for a brawl? So say just 2 players are throwing punches at each other... A penalty each? What about if two players on the same team get into fight? Give the opposition 2 penalties?

I done replying to your retarded idea now... Goodluck with this new sport you are trying to get off the ground.. Not sure what you are going to call it but retardball has a bit of ring to it
 
Guarantee the racist comments aren't even comments, just the same old emoji's of a certain animal used by the same 3-4 bot accounts.....same accounts that abused Son Saka Rashford etc. Now they're back.

These aren't people and on the off chance one is, they aren't fans associated with any club....probably some angry geezer that lost out on a bet.

Were there fans in the stadium chanting racial abuse? No. Has there ever been an incident of crowd trouble in this country with regards to racial abuse? No.

This is something over Insta/twitter.....as it always is, so the post needs to be reported so the social media company take action.....they then get the police to trace the address and find the AI company responsible and shut them down. Job done.
 
Last edited:
05a299574a5073a181b3784cc13f8be81bc119e3.jpeg
 
Irishanfield said:
So are you saying their should be a penalty shoot out if multiple players are sent off for a brawl? So say just 2 players are throwing punches at each other... A penalty each? What about if two players on the same team get into fight? Give the opposition 2 penalties?

I done replying to your retarded idea now... Goodluck with this new sport you are trying to get off the ground.. Not sure what you are going to call it but retardball has a bit of ring to it
Click to expand...

You're talking about edge cases, and the nature of those is that they probably require specific responses.

A brawl might best be handled by enforced substitutions to relieve the tension, and then serious repercussions for the players involved in terms of bans and fines.

You see, if you just apply a bit of common sense the appropriate rules reveal themselves quite easily.
 
If significant human error is the cause then use the automated system for line calls.

Subjective calls should be in the hands of independents not other refs backing up their pals.
 
Gary Neville heard the audio at the time, then his reaction after the match tells you everything, it was to spew his diatribe about the lines, and what angles they use, and the positions of the cameras and so forth. So he, having heard the audio, was under no illusions that the decision from VAR was offside. No hint of the communication being silent or unclear or ambiguous at all.

It's only after the fact that PGMOL have put out their laughable excuse of miscommunication, and four people all just suffering simultaneous episodes of deafness and blindness and retardation. It did not happen, it could not happen. What obviously happened is the var referee is a fucking paedophile and a fucking cunt, he knew the on field decision, and with the intention of fucking us he surmised that it was sufficiently close call for him to stick with the on field decision, and communicated that clearly to the referee, which Neville also heard.

This is why they they have had to sound even more stupid by saying there was a fucking rule which stopped them telling the referee about the mistake. Utter bullshit, the rules don't even say that, you don't need to be a lawyer to realise they don't say that, there is no such protocol in the laws of the game except the one invented now by the other bald paedophile dermot gallagher. The VAR referee intentionally stuck with the off side. This is why there was no subsequent communication afterwards about the "oh fucking shit we made a huge mistake", because there was no mistake. It's fucking impossible to make that mistake, but if you are stupid enough to believe it could happen, then it is definitely fucking impossible that the var ref would just sit there in silence and say absolutely nothing to nobody. It's amazing, I don't know what planet the fake news are even living on anymore to lap this story up.

It was a deliberate fucking act of bias. The outcome is prison. It has to be prison.
 
dantes said:
Gary Neville heard the audio at the time, then his reaction after the match tells you everything, it was to spew his diatribe about the lines, and what angles they use, and the positions of the cameras and so forth. So he, having heard the audio, was under no illusions that the decision from VAR was offside. No hint of the communication being silent or unclear or ambiguous at all.

It's only after the fact that PGMOL have put out their laughable excuse of miscommunication, and four people all just suffering simultaneous episodes of deafness and blindness and retardation. It did not happen, it could not happen. What obviously happened is the var referee is a fucking paedophile and a fucking cunt, he knew the on field decision, and with the intention of fucking us he surmised that it was sufficiently close call for him to stick with the on field decision, and communicated that clearly to the referee, which Neville also heard.

This is why they they have had to sound even more stupid by saying there was a fucking rule which stopped them telling the referee about the mistake. Utter bullshit, the rules don't even say that, you don't need to be a lawyer to realise they don't say that, there is no such protocol in the laws of the game except the one invented now by the other bald paedophile dermot gallagher. The VAR referee intentionally stuck with the off side. This is why there was no subsequent communication afterwards about the "oh fucking shit we made a huge mistake", because there was no mistake. It's fucking impossible to make that mistake, but if you are stupid enough to believe it could happen, then it is definitely fucking impossible that the var ref would just sit there in silence and say absolutely nothing to nobody. It's amazing, I don't know what planet the fake news are even living on anymore to lap this story up.

It was a deliberate fucking act of bias. The outcome is prison. It has to be prison.
Click to expand...

Lock him up!!!!
Lock him up!!!!

Make Football Great Again.
 
It says a lot that figureheads for our rivals are not letting go of this. It is huge.
 
Brizzle said:
It says a lot that figureheads for our rivals are not letting go of this. It is huge.
Click to expand...

It's because it was so blatant - and let's be honest, there's NO WAY this was a just human mistake.
They've freaking given Man U a penalty after a final whistle.
Glad our club has the balls to go over this shit.
 
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