Pre Match - Man Utd (H) - PL - Tues 20:00

[keniget]

I don't think things are as bad for them as everyone makes out. They've been in the mix for a top 4 finish for most of the season.

Was it Ragnick that says they're 6 years behind? That's an awfully long time in football and things can change quickly.

They'll have a bit of a clear out this summer with Pogba and a few others leaving. A good manager and a couple decent transfer windows and things will look at lot different.

Klopp and Guardiola could both be leaving in a couple years time, which will undoubtedly give other teams a chance to step up.

 

[Woland]

I think sacking their scouting team, the day after a bad result is part of the problem. Unless they had planned that anyway, but seems unlikely.

I saw it as a part of whatever rangnick is up to, preparing for Ten Haag. Hope you're right.

 

[Lastboyscout]

Honestly, that's one of the best long-buildup goals I've ever seen. So many of those so called "team goals" are just 20-30 safe passes followed by a sharp opening. Here we were genuinely probing from all directions, creating overloads, dragging United's team shape all over the place, pulling back and starting again – and the decisive lightning-quick 5-pass combination (Matip-Diaz -Matip-Mane-Salah) emerged naturally as a logical continuation of attacking down both flanks and then finally penetrating through the middle. By the time Matip stepped up for the first pass, you could throw a blanket over the 10 United outfield players, they were like a herd of sheep corralled into a pen. And Mane's pass was not just brilliant, but completely logical too – you could see he already had the idea when Diaz received the ball as he saw Mo ready to make the run out of the corner of his eye and also saw Maguire's (bad) position. I can't imagine how satisfying it is for everyone involved, from the players to the coaches, to create a goal like this – let alone do it in a must-win game against United.

I liked it so much, it's now my new avatar.

Matip's pass to Mane though. Wow.

 

[Red Bird]

I don't think things are as bad for them as everyone makes out. They've been in the mix for a top 4 finish for most of the season.

Was it Ragnick that says they're 6 years behind? That's an awfully long time in football and things can change quickly.

They'll have a bit of a clear out this summer with Pogba and a few others leaving. A good manager and a couple decent transfer windows and things will look at lot different.

Klopp and Guardiola could both be leaving in a couple years time, which will undoubtedly give other teams a chance to step up.

I think the problem is not having a structure in place and following it through. What was the justification in appointing David Moyes, for example? And after that misstep, van Gaal, then Mourinho, then Solskær were appointed, all in quick succession— what the bloody hell was the club hierarchy trying to achieve? They were (are) all so different and you can see that by the mishmash of players in that squad.

We at least gave Houlier and Benitez time, if not the resources. Rodgers who was also given time and space created his own problems by constantly, mostly covertly, whingeing about the transfer committee and with subsequent events highlighting his limitations it was time for him to leave Liverpool when he did.

 

[Red Bird]

I think sacking their scouting team, the day after a bad result is part of the problem. Unless they had planned that anyway, but seems unlikely.

I also think they haven’t actually made any players better (in a long time)— the opposite, in fact, with many getting worse.

 

[Woland]

Ten Haag has just been announced as the next boss anyways

 

[Hansern]

I saw it as a part of whatever rangnick is up to, preparing for Ten Haag. Hope you're right.

Sounds like a great guy to work with.

 

[dee]

The situation at United is as bad as it gets. They have 5 first team players out of contract this summer, with another 4 entering their last year (although Some have further one year options). Some of their long term signings are either dreadful or pushing for a move for greater game time.

The owners have focussed on summer spending sprees that have been disastrous at the expense of decaying infrastructure.

United are no longer likely to win anything in the coming seasons and qualification for UCL will be a challenge even with the new ‘cheat’ places available

To address this United have promoted John Murtough to DoF, who in turn has brought in Ralf Ragnick to advise. They appear to have identified and hired the next manager and are starting to reshape the talent acquisition function by removing the old scouting team. Rumour has it they want Paul Mitchel onboard to kick start.

Ragnick has already publicly stated they need 6-10 new faces which is a seismic change unlikely to click quickly.

They will be losing Matic, Mata, Lingaard, Pogba and Cavani for definite with greenwood sacked. So zero transfer income (although a sizeable saving in wages).

Outgoings on top of that are likely to be Heaton, Martial, Williams and Diallo with Rashford and Henderson considering jumping.

Finally De Gea, Ronaldo and Jones will also be entering into final years with no real appetite to pick up optional extensions. More “dead money” if they don’t cash in this summer

All in all up to 14 possible leavers with little money generation.

Add in that this will leave them with Maguire, Wan-bisaka and Shaw and you shudder

They are most definitely in the shit

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

They sacked their scouting team yesterday. They must be at least trying to improve that side of things

Their scouting team should have been sacked after spending 130 on Maguire and Wan Bissaka. That was the laziest "let's spend a fortune of flavour of the month players" spend ever. We got VVD, Robertson, Konate and Matip for less.

 

[The Nomad]

United officially appoint Andy Parsons as their new manager from the end of the season.

 

[dee]

Their scouting team should have been sacked after spending 130 on Maguire and Wan Bissaka. That was the laziest "let's spend a fortune of flavour of the month players" spend ever. We got VVD, Robertson, Konate and Matip for less.

Allegedly the scouting team advised against both signings.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

Allegedly the scouting team advised against both signings.

Ah fair enough then. Anybody with a pair of eyes could see it was crazy money.

 

[Markeh]

Wan-Bissaka looks like he’s waiting to be transformed into a defensive midfield monster like Sissoko but just like his failings at fullback I’m not sure a DM can get away with being shite on the ball anymore. Probably why it has never been attempted.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

 

[Judge Jules]

Wan-Bissaka looks like he’s waiting to be transformed into a defensive midfield monster like Sissoko but just like his failings at fullback I’m not sure a DM can get away with being shite on the ball anymore. Probably why it has never been attempted.

Wan-Bissaka went there with the rep of being a very good attacking fullback, then at Manure he turned into (when on form anyway) a similarly good defensive fullback but one who's completely and utterly forgotten how to attack. Poor sap doesn't know whether he's coming or going any more.

They're rapidly joining Everton as a graveyard for formerly decent players.

 

[Hansern]

Wasnt he quite helpless attacking wise for Palace as well? Or am I remembering that wrongly.

 

[dee]

Wan-Bissaka went there with the rep of being a very good attacking fullback, then at Manure he turned into (when on form anyway) a similarly good defensive fullback but one who's completely and utterly forgotten how to attack. Poor sap doesn't know whether he's coming or going any more.

They're rapidly joining Everton as a graveyard for formerly decent players.

I think a big part of his issue is United not having a CB ‘general’ to call the line. He seems to spend a lot of his time running toward goal trying to regain position

 

[Judge Jules]

Wasnt he quite helpless attacking wise for Palace as well? Or am I remembering that wrongly.

You've got me doubting myself now, but my recollection was that - as a converted winger - his attacking play was highly regarded when he was there and it was actually his defensive work that was considered to need improvement.

 

[Red Bird]

Wasnt he quite helpless attacking wise for Palace as well? Or am I remembering that wrongly.

He was.

That was my point in another post. Man U hasn't really made any players better than they were before they got there. Almost all seem initially to have burned brightly before sputtering into mediocrity.

 

[Judge Jules]

Not doubting myself any more. Just did a search on "Wan-Bissaka at Crystal Palace" and found a video on there entitled "Aaron Wan Bissaka - Amazing Runs - Defensive Skills - Crystal Palace". Can't get it to post on here but the player in that video was anything but hapless in attack.

 

[Fabio]

Not doubting myself any more. Just did a search on "Wan-Bissaka at Crystal Palace" and found a video on there entitled "Aaron Wan Bissaka - Amazing Runs - Defensive Skills - Crystal Palace". Can't get it to post on here but the player in that video was anything but hapless in attack.

Was it more youthful dynamism than technique though? I remember him being very raw, which palace used to great effect

 

[Judge Jules]

Judging by that vid it was a bit of both. There were a number of neat flicks and other nifty moves on it.

 

[mwake]

Is this the worst United team ever? I mean with the team that got relagated in the 70s they at least showed some fight and passion. This current United team just seem arrogant and lack passion to fight.

Lets be honest they were kinda lucky to beat Norwich before we trounced them and they lost to Everton before that, two teams they should be smashing.

Mentally they are broken. That's the first job of Ten Haag to raise morale and standards.

 

[Judge Jules]

When they went down in the 70s Tommy Docherty had taken over a fairly short time beforehand and did get them playing, albeit too late to save them (he brought them straight back up the following season). They were pretty awful until he arrived, though, and I suspect there's more technical ability in this current squad. What this squad doesn't have is a functioning pair of cojones between the lot of them.

 

[Markeh]

Was it more youthful dynamism than technique though? I remember him being very raw, which palace used to great effect

I think it’s this. From what i recall that was one of the ‘asks’ from United, to build on his raw talent, particularly the attacking output

 

[Hansern]

His limitations in possession and the passing game probably got hidden a bit for Palace as well. They didnt like much of the ball under ole' Hodgepodge.

 

[Markeh]

His limitations in possession and the passing game probably got hidden a bit for Palace as well. They didnt like much of the ball under ole' Hodgepodge.

It’s the old signing a keeper from a shit team scenario, you only ever really see them defending for their lives

 

[Brizzle]

Wasnt he quite helpless attacking wise for Palace as well? Or am I remembering that wrongly.

My palace supporting mate couldn't believe how much they got. He definitely did more attacking at Palace than he does at United but I recall he was very much known for 'you shalt not pass' which he can barely even do now, let alone contribute anywhere else on the pitch.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Is this the worst United team ever? I mean with the team that got relagated in the 70s they at least showed some fight and passion. This current United team just seem arrogant and lack passion to fight.

Lets be honest they were kinda lucky to beat Norwich before we trounced them and they lost to Everton before that, two teams they should be smashing.

Mentally they are broken. That's the first job of Ten Haag to raise morale and standards.

They're not shit, they're 8 points off third place. They're shit compared to us.

 

[Richey]

They're not shit, they're 8 points off third place. They're shit compared to us.

Basically, yes. And crucially they are also extremely shit compared to what they were not too long ago.

I'm not old enough to remember when they went down in the 70s but I am old enough to remember what they were like in the late 80s and very early 90s. They weren't very good at all. I'm not convinced that they are much worse now than they were then.