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Post-Match - Sunderland (H)

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people complain about the strength of our sqaud but we can afford to keep a 20 million pound CM on the bench and not give him a sniff. THAT'S strength in depth 😉
 
The thing about Aquilani is, he seems to give the ball away under no pressure what so ever, he's talented just don't think the prem is gonna be suited to him, and he doesn't offer any sort of presence to our midfield
 
ryan

aquilani has been a pretty shit replacement so far.
it is hard to tell how much of that is down to himself, rafa, or just bad luck.
but the fact is he has hardly played all season.
when he has played he has been both awful and awesome.

as you say yourself we have many important positions to fill.
why did we go for this particular gamble?

it seems to me that rafa made an error in his risk/reward analysis.
it is of course easy to say that after the season we have had,
but many people expressed concern when we sold alonso and bought aquilani.

why did we sell a perfectly good player, and buy an injured, unproven one?
the sale may have been forced upon benitez, but what he did with the money was up to him.
 
[quote author=iseeredpeople link=topic=39532.msg1077781#msg1077781 date=1269819201]
ryan

aquilani has been a pretty shit replacement so far.
it is hard to tell how much of that is down to himself, rafa, or just bad luck.
but the fact is he has hardly played all season.
when he has played he has been both awful and awesome.

as you say yourself we have many important positions to fill.
why did we go for this particular gamble?

it seems to me that rafa made an error in his risk/reward analysis.
it is of course easy to say that after the season we have had,
but many people expressed concern when we sold alonso and bought aquilani.

why did we sell a perfectly good player, and buy an injured, unproven one?
the sale may have been forced upon benitez, but what he did with the money was up to him.
[/quote]

The Alonso sale was inevitable. As was finding and buying a replacement.

The Aquilani signing will be judged over longer than one season fortunately. The fact we've had such a gay season makes the focuc on him a touch unfair in my view.

He, like so very many midfielders needs time to adapt to the league. If Fernando, Stevie and Glenjo are fit all season long, then we're in the 4 and in the CL. The need to srutinise whether Aqui's a success or not is markedly less then.
 
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39532.msg1077778#msg1077778 date=1269819060]
The thing about Aquilani is, he seems to give the ball away under no pressure what so ever, he's talented just don't think the prem is gonna be suited to him, and he doesn't offer any sort of presence to our midfield
[/quote]

he was giving the ball away because he was desparate to prove something to rafa for leaving him out. with the pompy masterclass people could have pointed to that game and said well it was aqua that made that performance happen but today he was left out and the first half was just as good and I think that's what frustrated aqua and his frustrated transfered itself into miss placed passes.
 
In Aquilani's favour, it's a lot more difficult to ping passes around and look the part when your options are Nabil, N'Gog and a tired Babel.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39532.msg1077785#msg1077785 date=1269819390]
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39532.msg1077778#msg1077778 date=1269819060]
The thing about Aquilani is, he seems to give the ball away under no pressure what so ever, he's talented just don't think the prem is gonna be suited to him, and he doesn't offer any sort of presence to our midfield
[/quote]

he was giving the ball away because he was desparate to prove something to rafa for leaving him out. with the pompy masterclass people could have pointed to that game and said well it was aqua that made that performance happen but today he was left out and the first half was just as good and I think that's what frustrated aqua and his frustrated transfered itself into miss placed passes.
[/quote]


I wasn't on about just today mate, in most of the games, he gives the ball away too easily
 
aqua would have featured more if he had recovered faster from his injury, now in the business end of the season rafa is going for the safe option. aqua will figure more next season, if he doesn't get injuried or sold and I wouldn't rule out either.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39532.msg1077786#msg1077786 date=1269819474]
In Aquilani's favour, it's a lot more difficult to ping passes around and look the part when your options are Nabil, N'Gog and a tired Babel.
[/quote]

He was probably pissed about not starting and when he came on looking to make a big impact...we had the foot well
and truly off the peddle so he couldn't really get going with the lack of tempo throughout the side.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39532.msg1077786#msg1077786 date=1269819474]
In Aquilani's favour, it's a lot more difficult to ping passes around and look the part when your options are Nabil, N'Gog and a tired Babel.
[/quote]

that may be but attempted back heeled nutmegs are a 'little' ill advised in dangerous areas.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39532.msg1077738#msg1077738 date=1269815287]
Spidey...

Ryan Babel's goals in the league this season: 3.

Two of which came in injury time against Hull in a 6-1 drubbing.
The other came against Portsmouth in a 4-1 rape-athon.

He also still has no clue how to beat a man.

Calm down.
[/quote]

3 more than Lucas, who has played 28 games in CM.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39532.msg1077756#msg1077756 date=1269817696]
Forgot to mention this earlier...

Rafa's pre-match "Stevie G needs to up his game" sting, certainly did the trick. That was his best performance of the season by miles. Sometimes he needs a well-timed kick up the hole.

That's management that Rafa gets zero credit for unsurprisingly.
[/quote]
What a load of bollix.

Gerrard played great because he was in the centre of things.

I said from game one our central 4 should have been

Masher--------Gerrard

--------Yossi---------

--------Torres--------

And I still maintain with that we would be alot closer. Without Alonso Gerrard doesn't get enough quality ball to feet. Lucas and Masher just can't do.

Rafa saying he needed to step up had nothing to do with it. Gerrard playing in the middle had everything to do with it.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39532.msg1077738#msg1077738 date=1269815287]
Spidey...

Ryan Babel's goals in the league this season: 3.

Two of which came in injury time against Hull in a 6-1 drubbing.
The other came against Portsmouth in a 4-1 rape-athon.

He also still has no clue how to beat a man.

Calm down.
[/quote]

My biggest issue with Babs is when he turns, puts his head down and barrels towards defenders with reckless abandon and has no idea of his teammates positioning or where he is on the pitch. When he is passing and moving without the ball instead of trying to take defenders of the dribble all the time he is much more effective.
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=39532.msg1077818#msg1077818 date=1269826934]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39532.msg1077738#msg1077738 date=1269815287]
Spidey...

Ryan Babel's goals in the league this season: 3.

Two of which came in injury time against Hull in a 6-1 drubbing.
The other came against Portsmouth in a 4-1 rape-athon.

He also still has no clue how to beat a man.

Calm down.
[/quote]

3 more than Lucas, who has played 28 games in CM.
[/quote]

One's a defensive midfielder, the other's a winger/striker.

You could put a pillow to sleep Dreamy.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39532.msg1077828#msg1077828 date=1269831591]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=39532.msg1077818#msg1077818 date=1269826934]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39532.msg1077738#msg1077738 date=1269815287]
Spidey...

Ryan Babel's goals in the league this season: 3.

Two of which came in injury time against Hull in a 6-1 drubbing.
The other came against Portsmouth in a 4-1 rape-athon.

He also still has no clue how to beat a man.

Calm down.
[/quote]

3 more than Lucas, who has played 28 games in CM.
[/quote]

One's a defensive midfielder, the other's a winger/striker.

You could put a pillow to sleep Dreamy.
[/quote]

Lucas is a "box to box" CM who has 1 assist and zero goals in 28 games.

Even Masher hsa more than that.

And thats a rich comment coming from you.

I could give you a paper cup and you could find a way to over analysis it.
 
Ryan, if Mascherano plays behind Lucas, which he clearly does, and Mascherano is a defensive midfielder, what does that make Lucas?
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=39532.msg1077835#msg1077835 date=1269832801]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39532.msg1077828#msg1077828 date=1269831591]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=39532.msg1077818#msg1077818 date=1269826934]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39532.msg1077738#msg1077738 date=1269815287]
Spidey...

Ryan Babel's goals in the league this season: 3.

Two of which came in injury time against Hull in a 6-1 drubbing.
The other came against Portsmouth in a 4-1 rape-athon.

He also still has no clue how to beat a man.

Calm down.
[/quote]

3 more than Lucas, who has played 28 games in CM.
[/quote]

One's a defensive midfielder, the other's a winger/striker.

You could put a pillow to sleep Dreamy.
[/quote]

Lucas is a "box to box" CM who has 1 assist and zero goals in 28 games.

Even Masher hsa more than that.

And thats a rich comment coming from you.

I could give you a paper cup and you could find a way to over analysis it.
[/quote]

There's no such thing as a box-to-box midfielder in football these days Dreamy.

Welcome to 2010.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39532.msg1077784#msg1077784 date=1269819379]
[quote author=iseeredpeople link=topic=39532.msg1077781#msg1077781 date=1269819201]
ryan

aquilani has been a pretty shit replacement so far.
it is hard to tell how much of that is down to himself, rafa, or just bad luck.
but the fact is he has hardly played all season.
when he has played he has been both awful and awesome.

as you say yourself we have many important positions to fill.
why did we go for this particular gamble?

it seems to me that rafa made an error in his risk/reward analysis.
it is of course easy to say that after the season we have had,
but many people expressed concern when we sold alonso and bought aquilani.

why did we sell a perfectly good player, and buy an injured, unproven one?
the sale may have been forced upon benitez, but what he did with the money was up to him.
[/quote]

The Alonso sale was inevitable. As was finding and buying a replacement.

The Aquilani signing will be judged over longer than one season fortunately. The fact we've had such a gay season makes the focuc on him a touch unfair in my view.

He, like so very many midfielders needs time to adapt to the league. If Fernando, Stevie and Glenjo are fit all season long, then we're in the 4 and in the CL. The need to srutinise whether Aqui's a success or not is markedly less then.

[/quote]

Agree with that completely.

If Ronaldo had Evra, Ronaldo and Rooney out for long periods last season, they wouldn't have been in an all together dissimilar position from us now. One thing I do agree with you on profusely is that the injuries we've suffered do not get enough of a mention on this board. Yes - our squad should be better equipped to deal with it, but still, regardless of the replacements, you cannot lose such key players and expect it to not have a terrible effect on the team. After all, the term 'irreplaceable' does exist for a reason.

However it's far from the excuse Benitez needs to justify this car-crash of a season. It's simply an under-estimated factor.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=39532.msg1077842#msg1077842 date=1269840979]
Ryan, if Mascherano plays behind Lucas, which he clearly does, and Mascherano is a defensive midfielder, what does that make Lucas?
[/quote]

I wouldn't necessarily say that Mascherano plays behind him. Depends on the game really, but let's take the last one they played togethor - Old Trafford - both played as defensive shields/midfielders.
 
Macherano has been behind Lucas recently, because Aquilani's good performances displayed to Rafa that we could be more adventourous in the CM area and thus Lucas has been given a more attacking licence in recent weeks.

Prior to that I'd say they played at a similar depth.
 
How many United fans were wearing green and yellow scarves the other day? 12-15,000? More?

After the game, when everyone has either gone home or flicked channels, this is what SOS can produce:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1507803/LFC_NO_YANKS_PROTEST.jpg

Less than 150 people out of 42,000, and one of them is in a fucking jester hat.

Which, based on today's showing, is precisely the attire SoS should be wearing.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=39532.msg1077846#msg1077846 date=1269842120]
You don't think that the majority of the time, Mascherano plays behind Lucas?
[/quote]

He probably has, but it's not really the point; When Rafa deploys them for the most part, it's as defensive/holding/shields.

It goes back to the banks of midfielders that exist in football today, I think I wrote something about this a few weeks back (I'll try and find it), but Lucas and Masher play as defensive midfielders. Like Mikel, Denilson, Carrick, Palacios, etc etc. Gerrard, Lampard, Modric, etc play in the next attacking bank as attacking midfielders.

Lucas plays in one, Aquilani plays in the other. Anyone can compare their output in terms of goals and assists if they like, but it's lazy, ignorant and misses the point by... Well, miles really.
 
Only thing that I didnt get is why pick El-Zhar over Pacheco. Unless Pacheco is away for international duty again. It would have been nice to see him get El-Zhar's minutes in yesterday's game.
 
[quote author=DHSC link=topic=39532.msg1077852#msg1077852 date=1269843677]
Only thing that I didnt get is why pick El-Zhar over Pacheco. Unless Pacheco is away for international duty again. It would have been nice to see him get El-Zhar's minutes in yesterday's game.
[/quote]

We'll be looking to sell El Zhar in the summer most likely and a few minutes here and there helps I suppose.
 
As for Lucas, I'm not so certain it's a given that Masher plays behind him all the time. It might just be my poor memory, but I do remember seeing Masher roaming quite freely (in an attempt to start play as well as doing the whole destroyer thing) earlier this season, whereas Lucas tends to be a lot more disciplined and holds his position, particularly when the team isn't playing well. That said, some time ago Lucas described his role in the team along the lines of a second defensive midfielder, implying that he has greater licence to get forward, at least on paper, and we've seen examples of this recently.

Either way, it doesn't really matter in the context of this argument. He doesn't get more assists and goals because he hasn't been particularly good.
 
The way we lined up today, is the way forward in our last 6 games.

We don't need two defensive midfielders, it should be enough with Mascher.
Kuyt, Benny or Aqua can play behind Torres.

If have to go for the win in our last away games, and to do that we need to attack. We can't wait for our one chance and let the opposition come at us.

Go for the win, get 3 points.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39532.msg1077858#msg1077858 date=1269845170]
[quote author=DHSC link=topic=39532.msg1077852#msg1077852 date=1269843677]
Only thing that I didnt get is why pick El-Zhar over Pacheco. Unless Pacheco is away for international duty again. It would have been nice to see him get El-Zhar's minutes in yesterday's game.
[/quote]

We'll be looking to sell El Zhar in the summer most likely and a few minutes here and there helps I suppose.
[/quote]

Oh Keni you cynic, you!

It's more likely his value will drop prospective buyers will realise how average he is when he plays.
 
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=39532.msg1077871#msg1077871 date=1269847618]
The way we lined up today, is the way forward in our last 6 games.

We don't need two defensive midfielders, it should be enough with Mascher.
Kuyt, Benny or Aqua can play behind Torres.

If have to go for the win in our last away games, and to do that we need to attack. We can't wait for our one chance and let the opposition come at us.

Go for the win, get 3 points.
[/quote]

With the ever cautious Rafa, I think Kuyt will play behind Torres to offer some defensive nous as long as Gerrard is playing in midfield.
 
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