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Poll Poll: 4th or win the EL ?

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Which scenario would you prefer or do you think we should prioritise ?

  • 4th Place or above

    Votes: 14 40.0%

  • Europa League (Winners qualify for the CL)

    Votes: 21 60.0%

  • FA Cup

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    35
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Agree with the Judge.

Prioritizing a Cup is always a bad idea because it's much harder. There are a plethora of teams vying and the best team doesn't always win.
One slip and our dreams could be over.

League should always come first. Aim to win, then 2nd, then 3rd, then 4th. If we are out of the running for all of those (ie we are Everton) then prioritize the EL and FA cup
 
Judge Jules said:
Prioritising "a trophy", as if they were all worth the same, isn't a point of view I will ever agree with. LFC exists to win the big trophies (the league and Bigears) specifically, and the way to do that is to prioritise the league and build ourselves up into consistent title challengers. Prioritising the Europa League, a knockout competition for which it's far harder to plan ahead than it is for the league, is a very risky option which makes no sense to me. There are no guarantees in football, but IMHO we should play the percentages and prioritise the competition (a) in which we have the best chance of exerting a degree of control over our own destiny and (b) which will have the greatest long-term effect on our future progress. That means shooting for the highest league position we can get as Priority One.
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We have a very young team, almost all of them dont have the experience of playing in a major final and winning one. I would argue that winning a Europa league and the confidence boost and experience it will give our squad and the manager and the personal growth associated with it would be worth more than the tangible monetary value associated with finishing higher in the premier league.
 
It's a respectable point of view, mate, and you argue it well, but I can't agree. As an illustration of why not, we're all still waiting for the beneficial effects of winning that (admittedly amazing) Treble under GH. I've nothing against winning the Europa League and will be delighted if we do so, but for the reasons I've explained above I believe it would be a mistake to prioritise it.
 
Judge Jules said:
It's a respectable point of view, mate, and you argue it well, but I can't agree. As an illustration of why not, we're all still waiting for the beneficial effects of winning that (admittedly amazing) Treble under GH. I've nothing against winning the Europa League and will be delighted if we do so, but for the reasons I've explained above I believe it would be a mistake to prioritise it.
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Istanbul 2005 😉
 
@LFCFansCorner: Liverpool drew Arsenal in the rehearsal draw for the FA Cup.

Lets hope it doesnt happen again later tonight.
 
As a matter of interest what would the situation be if we lost to Spurs in the EL final, and Spurs finished top four in league
 
Pretty sure the extra place would just go back to whoever it was taken from (ie some team from a country way down the qualifying rankings).
 
Surely this isn't even a discussion.
If the choice is between cl football (4th) and cl football and a European trophy (el) then it's a no brainier.
Perhaps the question should be "which should be concentrate on in terms of our best chance at achieving our goal?"

4th is looking tough but then we have a lot of easier games in theory in the league than the 9 games it would take to win the EL.
 
Yeah but by definition if there's no extra team in the groups stages the new place has to come from somewhere at some point back in the qualifying rounds. It couldn't just be a new place at no-one's expense.

Anyways...
 
And to answer the original question. Ideally both but I'd go for the trophy, it'll be close if we don't make 4th so Rodgers tenure will be 7th, 2nd and possibly 5th with 2 CL qualification seasons. That's a sign of improvement for me and shows the team is pushing in the right direction.
 
Silver Sean said:
Everyone is pretty obsessed with us finishing top four now we've turned the season around. But if it comes down to it I would love to see us lift the UEFA cup in Warsaw. That way we win a european trophy AND get into the CL.
There's some storied European teams still in it (and Everton).
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4th everytime but you should do a poll
 
If we get to Warsaw then I'm going for a week which will be boss for me, and I'll have lots of boss stories to tell you all, which will be boss for you.

So yeah, we should go for the EL.
 
Judge Jules said:
Prioritising "a trophy", as if they were all worth the same, isn't a point of view I will ever agree with. LFC exists to win the big trophies (the league and Bigears) specifically, and the way to do that is to prioritise the league and build ourselves up into consistent title challengers. Prioritising the Europa League, a knockout competition for which it's far harder to plan ahead than it is for the league, is a very risky option which makes no sense to me. There are no guarantees in football, but IMHO we should play the percentages and prioritise the competition (a) in which we have the best chance of exerting a degree of control over our own destiny and (b) which will have the greatest long-term effect on our future progress. That means shooting for the highest league position we can get as Priority One.
Click to expand...

The way I see it, the opponents we can get in the remaining stages (assuming we get past Besiktas) can be classified as follows:

Tier 1: EPL top 2 level (i.e. Man City / Chelsea) : None
Tier 2: EPL #3-#7 level: at least 8 to 10 clubs (Roma, Napoli, Sevilla, Villarreal, Wolfsburg, Monchengladbach, Spurs, etc.)
Tier 3 and below: the rest (not our concern here)

Let's assume that we always get bad draws, i.e. we get Tier 2 opponents every round after Besiktas; we don't get the shit easy draws. How does this schedule stack up against the league games? Our remaining league schedules against the Tier 1 and Tier 2 clubs (5 games) are: Arsenal (a), Man Utd (h), Man City (h), Chelsea (a), Southampton (a).

Opponents League Europa
Tier 1 (h) 1 -
Tier 1 (a) 1 -
Tier 2 (h) 1 3
Tier 2 (a) 2 3
Tier 2 👎 - 1

The path to the Europa now doesn't look as bad when you look at it this way.

The "measure of control" in the league is misleading as well by the way. In the Europa League, you're just subject to the luck of the draw - the game outcomes are within your control (well, more or less, but stuff like shitty refs are what you face in the league too).

In the league, you're subject to the results of other top 4 contenders as well as your own game outcomes. We could do very well in our games, but if clubs currently ahead of us match us in terms of points gained, then we could still end up short. A good example is the recent run we've had - while we've made good gains, Arsenal, Spurs, Soton and the Mancs have done pretty well too, resulting in the gap not narrowing as much or as quickly as we'd have liked.

Given the prize at stake, we have to push on both fronts. Besides, if I read the rules correctly, then, if we win the EL while the CL winner already qualifies for next season's CL through their domestic league position, we go straight into the CL group stages next season. No potential playoff round banana skin to contend with, no disruption to our pre-season, etc. As I think it's very, very likely that the CL winner this season will already qualify via their domestic league position, I consider this another huge plus to winning the EL.
 
I don't why we're even having this debate.

Clearly, Rafa is winning it with Napoli.

It's what he does.
 
Not that i'm usually wont to do this but IF we can get everyone up and playing well, which happily we do seem to do after Christmas with Rodgers, then IMHO we are one of the best teams in the Europa league and could well win the fucker...

Which would make me very very happy to boot.

Assuming we don't fuck it up against a decent Besiktas of course...

Ultimately the prize is finishing fourth and we should try everything to ensure that but if we are close and can progress I don't see why we should fear beating any of the teams in the EL.

This team was initially set up for extra depth to compete in the CL, we fucking blew it big time, but we have been a different team over these last 8 weeks or so... I'm sure we can do it..
 
studsup said:
The way I see it, the opponents we can get in the remaining stages (assuming we get past Besiktas) can be classified as follows:

Tier 1: EPL top 2 level (i.e. Man City / Chelsea) : None
Tier 2: EPL #3-#7 level: at least 8 to 10 clubs (Roma, Napoli, Sevilla, Villarreal, Wolfsburg, Monchengladbach, Spurs, etc.)
Tier 3 and below: the rest (not our concern here)

Let's assume that we always get bad draws, i.e. we get Tier 2 opponents every round after Besiktas; we don't get the shit easy draws. How does this schedule stack up against the league games? Our remaining league schedules against the Tier 1 and Tier 2 clubs (5 games) are: Arsenal (a), Man Utd (h), Man City (h), Chelsea (a), Southampton (a).

Opponents League Europa
Tier 1 (h) 1 -
Tier 1 (a) 1 -
Tier 2 (h) 1 3
Tier 2 (a) 2 3
Tier 2 👎 - 1

The path to the Europa now doesn't look as bad when you look at it this way.

The "measure of control" in the league is misleading as well by the way. In the Europa League, you're just subject to the luck of the draw - the game outcomes are within your control (well, more or less, but stuff like shitty refs are what you face in the league too).

In the league, you're subject to the results of other top 4 contenders as well as your own game outcomes. We could do very well in our games, but if clubs currently ahead of us match us in terms of points gained, then we could still end up short. A good example is the recent run we've had - while we've made good gains, Arsenal, Spurs, Soton and the Mancs have done pretty well too, resulting in the gap not narrowing as much or as quickly as we'd have liked.

Given the prize at stake, we have to push on both fronts. Besides, if I read the rules correctly, then, if we win the EL while the CL winner already qualifies for next season's CL through their domestic league position, we go straight into the CL group stages next season. No potential playoff round banana skin to contend with, no disruption to our pre-season, etc. As I think it's very, very likely that the CL winner this season will already qualify via their domestic league position, I consider this another huge plus to winning the EL.
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Good post but let's agree to disagree. The important point you leave out is the fact that you know what league fixtures you're facing, and when, right to the end of the season whereas in a Cup competition you only find that out round by round. That's bound to make a big difference.

Just to add I'm not advocating giving up on the Europa League by any means, nor do I imagine the club would do so anyway. It's less clear-cut than that, a matter of emphasis rather than simply putting all our eggs in one basket.
 
studsup said:
The way I see it, the opponents we can get in the remaining stages (assuming we get past Besiktas) can be classified as follows:

Tier 1: EPL top 2 level (i.e. Man City / Chelsea) : None
Tier 2: EPL #3-#7 level: at least 8 to 10 clubs (Roma, Napoli, Sevilla, Villarreal, Wolfsburg, Monchengladbach, Spurs, etc.)
Tier 3 and below: the rest (not our concern here)

Let's assume that we always get bad draws, i.e. we get Tier 2 opponents every round after Besiktas; we don't get the shit easy draws. How does this schedule stack up against the league games? Our remaining league schedules against the Tier 1 and Tier 2 clubs (5 games) are: Arsenal (a), Man Utd (h), Man City (h), Chelsea (a), Southampton (a).

Opponents League Europa
Tier 1 (h) 1 -
Tier 1 (a) 1 -
Tier 2 (h) 1 3
Tier 2 (a) 2 3
Tier 2 👎 - 1

The path to the Europa now doesn't look as bad when you look at it this way.

The "measure of control" in the league is misleading as well by the way. In the Europa League, you're just subject to the luck of the draw - the game outcomes are within your control (well, more or less, but stuff like shitty refs are what you face in the league too).

In the league, you're subject to the results of other top 4 contenders as well as your own game outcomes. We could do very well in our games, but if clubs currently ahead of us match us in terms of points gained, then we could still end up short. A good example is the recent run we've had - while we've made good gains, Arsenal, Spurs, Soton and the Mancs have done pretty well too, resulting in the gap not narrowing as much or as quickly as we'd have liked.

Given the prize at stake, we have to push on both fronts. Besides, if I read the rules correctly, then, if we win the EL while the CL winner already qualifies for next season's CL through their domestic league position, we go straight into the CL group stages next season. No potential playoff round banana skin to contend with, no disruption to our pre-season, etc. As I think it's very, very likely that the CL winner this season will already qualify via their domestic league position, I consider this another huge plus to winning the EL.
Click to expand...


Good post, but I think you're missing out on the number of games we have to play. There is less room for error in Europe, you simply can not have two bad games in a row, in fact you are unlikely to get away with one. You can in the league, assuming you do well enough in the rest of the games. There is an element of luck in Europe, that makes it risky and harder to predict.

But as, you and others have said, we should be looking at doing well in both.
 
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