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PL Opposition Tidbits

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Markeh said:
do you reckon uefa would be furious if we played the reserves against madrid? the champions league format is shite and ripe for that sort of shenanigans.
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I'm sure there's rules against it, so probably, but there is worthwhile advantage at finishing as high up the table as possible, both to avoid the playoffs and I think you are then seeded better for the next tie.

I have to say I'm enjoying the format way more than I thought. I'm still cynical about the two/three extra games, but as a format it's good fun all round.
 
Markeh said:
do you reckon uefa would be furious if we played the reserves against madrid? the champions league format is shite and ripe for that sort of shenanigans.
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The big F U would be if the teams competing in the world club cup send their reserves.
 
Squiggles said:
I'm sure there's rules against it, so probably, but there is worthwhile advantage at finishing as high up the table as possible, both to avoid the playoffs and I think you are then seeded better for the next tie.

I have to say I'm enjoying the format way more than I thought. I'm still cynical about the two/three extra games, but as a format it's good fun all round.
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sounds like i’m the old grump that doesn’t like the new format but yea also very cynical about the extra games.

the competition did need a change so i guess we’ll see just how well all these new aspects work in practice. i do recall hearing that there’s no dropout to the europa league now too, be interesting to see how that competition fares.
 
rubans said:
Yeah meant 16 on top. like I said new format is going to take getting used to and can't even remember some of the usually known qualification metrics. I don't think it will last too long, will be either refined or reverted I reckon.
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No chance it will be reverted. That would be admitting you got something wrong and mean fewer games and lower UEFA income.
 
Modo said:
The big F U would be if the teams competing in the world club cup send their reserves.
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I disagree. But I agree with the tenor of your post.

And I disagree because that is too unlikely to even contemplate. Let alone write out as an opinion.
 
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Frogfish said:
No chance it will be reverted. That would be admitting you got something wrong and mean fewer games and lower UEFA income.
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They have reverted it before, more likely refined with an extra league round. I think back then was 17 games to final which is 4 less than last season’s winners of 13. Unlikely but with player strikes looming with FIFA club cup, this isn’t fixed and lot depends on how it goes.
 
At what point is Man Us continual losses scrutinised?
A football finance expert has said that he can’t explain how Manchester United avoided breaking PSR.
Stefan Borson said that the latest three-season period (2021/22, 2022/23 and 2023/24) would/should have seen them break the rules.
However, Borson saying that Manchester United were allowed two special allowances that made the difference.
The football finance expert stating that these allowances are ‘relatively exceptional’ when it comes to what is allowed.
Whilst clubs such as Everton and Forest have been hit with points deductions and others such as Newcastle United have had to sell promising players to stay within PSR limitations, Manchester United have stayed the right side of PSR due to these bafflingly allowed allowances.
Stefan Borson speaking to Talksport about Manchester United and PSR – 7 August 2024:
“Manchester United is very interesting because we do have quite a lot of information about Manchester United because of their quarterly report in the US and so we know that they’ve told us that the end of year results will have a £660million top line and about £140m EBITDA.
“It also tells us certain things about their costs. Bottom line is when you drag that down on the three-year assessment, Manchester United would have failed PSR for the season just gone, save for two things.
“One, they were given, it appears, an exceptional allowance of £40m for Covid in 2022, which no other club had.
“The most any other club had was about £1m in that year. We dont know how they got it.
“On top of that it seems they’ve been given allowance for around £35m of exceptional costs relating to the share sale to (INEOS CEO Sir Jim) Ratcliffe which to be honest, the Glazers should have paid that themselves anyway given they were the main beneficiary.
“But we know from the numbers that it was £35m and the only way in which they can make the 23/24 PSR numbers and this is not just my view but the view of multiple people who run the numbers, is by having these allowances.
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bluebell said:
At what point is Man Us continual losses scrutinised?
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I said this in the Football Finance thread in September. Wonder if I’m one of his “people who run the numbers”? Keep up, Stefan!

‘Update on United. I've done a bit of Googling to see if I could get hold of the detail because I didn't follow how they were not in breach and I suggested above they might have done a deal on some of their costs. And it turns out that they have agreed with the Premier League that they can make an adjustment for Covid costs in 2021-22 (i.e. after restrictions were lifted) to the tune of around £40m, and a further agreement to add back costs related to Radcliffe's investment, on which they somehow spunked £45m (I'm guessing that includes costs on other takeover bids). So they're basically allowed total losses of £190m. Which stinks.
The fact they agreed an adjustment for 2021-22 suggests they may have been over the limit last year (I had them right on the edge, by my estimates) but they are definitely over this year.
I'm actually sympathetic on the takeover stuff - the Club shouldn't have paid that, it should have been billed to the holding companies - but the covid stuff is taking the piss, and they should be up before the beak, possibly 2 years running.’
 
Beamrider said:
I said this in the Football Finance thread in September. Wonder if I’m one of his “people who run the numbers”? Keep up, Stefan!

‘Update on United. I've done a bit of Googling to see if I could get hold of the detail because I didn't follow how they were not in breach and I suggested above they might have done a deal on some of their costs. And it turns out that they have agreed with the Premier League that they can make an adjustment for Covid costs in 2021-22 (i.e. after restrictions were lifted) to the tune of around £40m, and a further agreement to add back costs related to Radcliffe's investment, on which they somehow spunked £45m (I'm guessing that includes costs on other takeover bids). So they're basically allowed total losses of £190m. Which stinks.
The fact they agreed an adjustment for 2021-22 suggests they may have been over the limit last year (I had them right on the edge, by my estimates) but they are definitely over this year.
I'm actually sympathetic on the takeover stuff - the Club shouldn't have paid that, it should have been billed to the holding companies - but the covid stuff is taking the piss, and they should be up before the beak, possibly 2 years running.’
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they have to pay off ETH and his backroom staff plus paying SP for Amorim and his backroom staff, which might cost all in all £30m+... Come Jan, they should not be allowed to spend.
 
bluebell said:
they have to pay off ETH and his backroom staff plus paying SP for Amorim and his backroom staff, which might cost all in all £30m+... Come Jan, they should not be allowed to spend.
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They've got the kind of complex group structure where they can shift assets around to create false profit if they need to. The PL tried to get the clubs to outlaw that but they wouldn't vote for it.
So if they've told Amorim he can spend then they will.
But in principle you are correct, and they'd need to sell to buy in Jan.
 
Just to add that the compensation to Sporting would be spread over the life of the manager's contract, as with a transfer fee. So they wouldn't take the full hit in one go.
Clubs also sometimes put the current manager on gardening leave rather than paying him off up front as it allows them to spread the cost and, if he takes a new job, can also allow them to avoid having to pay salary from that point on. It will all depend what's allowed in his contract, but chances are he and his agent would have negotiated a full pay-off if they were to sack him.
 
Amorim feels like a right manager at a wrong time for United. He is a dogmatic coach with strong ideas about his style of play who doesn’t tolerate indiscipline or anything that undermines his vision. You hire someone like that in the summer, give them time to implement their ideas and power over who to sign and who to sell and reap the rewards of a team unified under a single vision.

That is NOT the situation at United. He is being hired mid-season after Ten Hag spent most of the transfer budget on players he wanted, most of whom bar Ugarte are completely wrong for Amorim’s system, and he can’t even start working until next month because United apparently cannot work around a 30-day notice in his release clause. And even before he walks in the door he is already being put in an awkward position of having to decide whether to keep one of Ten Hag’s staff as assistant (Van Nistelrooy). About half of United’s squad including their most highly paid players (Casemiro, Rashford, De Ligt etc) are decidedly not suitable for Amorim’s 3-4-3 and due to the financial commitments made by the previous regime he will not have flexibility to replace them quickly if at all.

I think Amorim could do well in a right team and right situation. But at United it looks like he is being set up for failure. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he backs out.
 
rurikbird said:
Amorim feels like a right manager at a wrong time for United. He is a dogmatic coach with strong ideas about his style of play who doesn’t tolerate indiscipline or anything that undermines his vision. You hire someone like that in the summer, give them time to implement their ideas and power over who to sign and who to sell and reap the rewards of a team unified under a single vision.

That is NOT the situation at United. He is being hired mid-season after Ten Hag spent most of the transfer budget on players he wanted, most of whom bar Ugarte are completely wrong for Amorim’s system, and he can’t even start working until next month because United apparently cannot work around a 30-day notice in his release clause. And even before he walks in the door he is already being put in an awkward position of having to decide whether to keep one of Ten Hag’s staff as assistant (Van Nistelrooy). About half of United’s squad including their most highly paid players (Casemiro, Rashford, De Ligt etc) are decidedly not suitable for Amorim’s 3-4-3 and due to the financial commitments made by the previous regime he will not have flexibility to replace them quickly if at all.

I think Amorim could do well in a right team and right situation. But at United it looks like he is being set up for failure. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he backs out.
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He won't back out :

1. Can't be worse than ETH.
2. £££££
3. Exposure & experience even if it goes Tits up.
4. United will give him time (2-3 years as per ETH)
5. £££££
 
It’s dead funny they’ve been penny pinching, sacking staff, stopping stewards lunches and all that. Then waste many, many, many multiples of that sacking Erik.
 
rurikbird said:
Amorim feels like a right manager at a wrong time for United. He is a dogmatic coach with strong ideas about his style of play who doesn’t tolerate indiscipline or anything that undermines his vision. You hire someone like that in the summer, give them time to implement their ideas and power over who to sign and who to sell and reap the rewards of a team unified under a single vision.

That is NOT the situation at United. He is being hired mid-season after Ten Hag spent most of the transfer budget on players he wanted, most of whom bar Ugarte are completely wrong for Amorim’s system, and he can’t even start working until next month because United apparently cannot work around a 30-day notice in his release clause. And even before he walks in the door he is already being put in an awkward position of having to decide whether to keep one of Ten Hag’s staff as assistant (Van Nistelrooy). About half of United’s squad including their most highly paid players (Casemiro, Rashford, De Ligt etc) are decidedly not suitable for Amorim’s 3-4-3 and due to the financial commitments made by the previous regime he will not have flexibility to replace them quickly if at all.

I think Amorim could do well in a right team and right situation. But at United it looks like he is being set up for failure. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he backs out.
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Noticed he was at the helm when they sold Ugarte to PSG. Now it's gone full circle and he gets Ugarte back amongst other dross so it's kind of hilarious.
 
KopRed said:
Noticed he was at the helm when they sold Ugarte to PSG. Now it's gone full circle and he gets Ugarte back amongst other dross so it's kind of hilarious.
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To be fair, I don’t think he sold him because he wanted to get rid. Ugarte is probably the only recent United purchase that unquestionably fits Amorim’s way of playing.

TBH I think tactically Amorim is close to the worst fit imaginable for the current United side - the key positions in his system are where they are most lacking in quality (centre-forward, hard-working #10’s, creative and durable wing-backs and press-resistant CBs) and their key players and most recent purchases will be redundant. He will either have to severily compromise his principles (and he doesn’t seem the type) or burn it all down and start again.
 
rurikbird said:
To be fair, I don’t think he sold him because he wanted to get rid. Ugarte is probably the only recent United purchase that unquestionably fits Amorim’s way of playing.

TBH I think Amorim is close to the worst fit imaginable for the current United side - the key positions in his system are where they are most lacking in quality (centre-forward, hard-working #10’s, creative and durable wing-backs and press-resistant CBs) and their key players and most recent purchases will be redundant. He will either have to severily compromise his principles (and he doesn’t seem the type) or burn it all down and start again.
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Sounds like a perfect fit then..
 
Suprised Amorim took the job to be honest, It’s a big risk on his side much easier jobs on horizon of he had waited but guess he feels he’s the one to fix United.
 
rubans said:
Suprised Amorim took the job to be honest, It’s a big risk on his side much easier jobs on horizon of he had waited but guess he feels he’s the one to fix United.
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The West Ham trip showed that he is far less principled that he tries to appear.
 
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