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pennant has a moan

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"He would tell me to go to the byline and beat a man, but sometimes you don't have to. I prefer to take the politics out of the game."


Politics?????

Also, the comments about Kuyt playing on the wing are invalid. The stat's would show how much more effective Kuyt has been compared to Pennent.

Silly boy.
 
It's all in the past, but as a couple of others have said , he makes some valid points , and just says what everyone already knows Rafa is a control freak and has his untouchables.

I think he was hard done to when he came back from injury. Before he was getting plenty of plaudits and MOM awards from this board. People acknowledged he was improving his work rate game on game and working for the team. Then, as many before and since, he was deemed persona none gratis .

Perhaps he wasn't quite good enough, but he was improving all the time, and doing what was asked of him, even though it was stifling his natural game.

regards
 
I'd disagree with some of that, old mate, but I'm not sure how much it actually matters anyway.  The plain fact is that others have been in the same position but have knuckled down to working for the manager - been professional, in other words.  I think Pennant tried for a while, but ultimately he just wasn't mature enough to sustain the effort required, something for which this rather juvenile whinge from him now provides further evidence.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36082.msg952878#msg952878 date=1254146082]
I'd disagree with some of that, old mate, but I'm not sure how much it actually matters anyway. The plain fact is that others have been in the same position but have knuckled down to working for the manager - been professional, in other words. I think Pennant tried for a while, but ultimately he just wasn't mature enough to sustain the effort required, something for which this rather juvenile whinge from him now provides further evidence.
[/quote]
You are quite right, it doesn't matter at all no, it's all water under the bridge. It's just more ammunition for people (like me) that feel Rafa lacks something in the man-management side of his persona.
I think it's unfair to say he Pennant not sustain the effort, he never had the opportunity to after the injury

regards
 
Pennant was patted and stroked and cuddled by Steve Bruce and still his 'natural game' was rarely better than mediocre. I don't know why we bought the silly little git.
 
Pennant once again trying to blame others for his own failings. If he had been willing to work on his game (and for the team) like Yossi, Riera and Kuyt have, then maybe Rafa would have given him a few more chances.

I give it a couple of months before he's pictured swigging from a half empty bottle of whiskey again.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=36082.msg952901#msg952901 date=1254147829]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36082.msg952878#msg952878 date=1254146082]
I'd disagree with some of that, old mate, but I'm not sure how much it actually matters anyway. The plain fact is that others have been in the same position but have knuckled down to working for the manager - been professional, in other words. I think Pennant tried for a while, but ultimately he just wasn't mature enough to sustain the effort required, something for which this rather juvenile whinge from him now provides further evidence.
[/quote]
You are quite right, it doesn't matter at all no, it's all water under the bridge. It's just more ammunition for people (like me) that feel Rafa lacks something in the man-management side of his persona.
I think it's unfair to say he Pennant not sustain the effort, he never had the opportunity to after the injury

regards
[/quote]

Some solid points, but the one thing I would highlight is that I dont think Benitez himself feels that he is lacking in man-management skills.....rather I think this actually is his conscious man management approach in all its glory ie dont be their mates, always focus on what can be improved, dont mollycoddle them.

As Gerrard points out, its remarkably similar to Cappello - at best it fosters highly professional, respectful relationships, at worst it feels cold, detached and callous.
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=36082.msg952920#msg952920 date=1254148849]
I give it a couple of months before he's pictured swigging from a half empty bottle of whiskey again.
[/quote]

You'd have to have a VERY positive outlook to consider that particular bottle half-full
 
[quote author=grjt link=topic=36082.msg952923#msg952923 date=1254149241]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=36082.msg952901#msg952901 date=1254147829]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36082.msg952878#msg952878 date=1254146082]
I'd disagree with some of that, old mate, but I'm not sure how much it actually matters anyway. The plain fact is that others have been in the same position but have knuckled down to working for the manager - been professional, in other words. I think Pennant tried for a while, but ultimately he just wasn't mature enough to sustain the effort required, something for which this rather juvenile whinge from him now provides further evidence.
[/quote]
You are quite right, it doesn't matter at all no, it's all water under the bridge. It's just more ammunition for people (like me) that feel Rafa lacks something in the man-management side of his persona.
I think it's unfair to say he Pennant not sustain the effort, he never had the opportunity to after the injury

regards
[/quote]

Some solid points, but the one thing I would highlight is that I dont think Benitez himself feels that he is lacking in man-management skills.....rather I think this actually is his conscious man management approach in all its glory ie dont be their mates, always focus on what can be improved, dont mollycoddle them.

As Gerrard points out, its remarkably similar to Cappello - at best it fosters highly professional, respectful relationships, at worst it feels cold, detached and callous.
[/quote]

I agree (that's twice in a week now), it is his chosen way , and to some extent generally I think it is the right approach in the majority of cases. However to be a great motivator, you have to recognise what makes everyone tick and when to put an arm around and when not to, when to kick them in the arse and when to stop. Shanks could do exactly that

regards
 
I'm not sure there were so many cocky little twits around in those days. As Souness noted recently, there was certainly more respect for the senior pros and the manager among the squad in his era.
 
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36082.msg952916#msg952916 date=1254148718]
Pennant was patted and stroked and cuddled by Steve Bruce and still his 'natural game' was rarely better than mediocre. I don't know why we bought the silly little git.
[/quote]

The persistent story at the time was that Rafa wanted Alves but the board, while prepared to back the deal overall, wouldn't provide the cash all at once as Seville wanted. Meanwhile we had a fairly major hole to plug on the right wing so, against that background, I think Rafa felt Pennant was a chance worth taking.
 
He's a lazy player who resents the discipline required to play at the highest level. I doubt even Messi thinks his 'natural game' is being left to do as he pleases. Pennant should go back to playing park football if he thinks his 'natural game' is so precious. Good players want to be coached.
 
My point was, dear chums, regardless of how annoying Pennant may or may not be to you individually , Pennant clearly did do things the Rafa way and had brought into it, but for what? To be more or less completely discarded when he came back from injury.
Surely the point of a disciplinarian regime is to reward people who do what they are told.
Its fairly basic stuff Cesar Millan might make a better hand of it

regards
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=36082.msg953025#msg953025 date=1254158789]
My point was, dear chums, regardless of how annoying Pennant may or may not be to you individually , Pennant clearly did do things the Rafa way and had brought into it, but for what? To be more or less completely discarded when he came back from injury.
Surely the point of a disciplinarian regime is to reward people who do what they are told.
Its fairly basic stuff Cesar Millan might make a better hand of it

regards
[/quote]

i remember carra saying he was the the laziest trainer in the squad, and we all know what rafa would make of that. he didn't buy into the rafa way at all.
 
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=36082.msg953028#msg953028 date=1254158954]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=36082.msg953025#msg953025 date=1254158789]
My point was, dear chums, regardless of how annoying Pennant may or may not be to you individually , Pennant clearly did do things the Rafa way and had brought into it, but for what? To be more or less completely discarded when he came back from injury.
Surely the point of a disciplinarian regime is to reward people who do what they are told.
Its fairly basic stuff Cesar Millan might make a better hand of it

regards
[/quote]

i remember carra saying he was the the laziest trainer in the squad, and we all know what rafa would make of that. he didn't buy into the rafa way at all.

[/quote]

He started in a fairly lazy way and started to work harder , in the end he worked like a ..... well he worked very hard.
You have a short memory

regards
 
Fuck Pennant.

He was alright but I don't think he was harshly treated. His assertion that his best ever game was against Milan suggests he doesn't have the intelligence to carry out the orders of Rafael Benitez, which has to be duty of all our players.

Yossi and Dirk are better in his position anyway.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=36082.msg953030#msg953030 date=1254159200]
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=36082.msg953028#msg953028 date=1254158954]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=36082.msg953025#msg953025 date=1254158789]
My point was, dear chums, regardless of how annoying Pennant may or may not be to you individually , Pennant clearly did do things the Rafa way and had brought into it, but for what? To be more or less completely discarded when he came back from injury.
Surely the point of a disciplinarian regime is to reward people who do what they are told.
Its fairly basic stuff Cesar Millan might make a better hand of it

regards
[/quote]

i remember carra saying he was the the laziest trainer in the squad, and we all know what rafa would make of that. he didn't buy into the rafa way at all.

[/quote]

He started in a fairly lazy way and started to work harder , in the end he worked like a ..... well he worked very hard.
You have a short memory

regards

regards

regards
[/quote]

at the end of the day, i don't think rafa wants players to be obedient, i reckon he wants them to understand why he does things the way he does, and it's clear from that interview that pennant didn't get it. i would have played him more, but rafa is rafa. you never know what happened behind the scenes as well; pennant may have shown a lot of bad attitude.
 
So in 2007/08 all us thick twats voted Pennant as our 6th best player despite him having played half the games as most of those above him. Bearing in mind he was not a popular purchase from day 1.
As I said short memories, or perhaps a case of give a dog a bad name.......probably
Pennant has a fucking point and everyone knows it


Despite Pennant only making 17 appearances
Mascher 25
Gerrard 34
Torres 33
Kuyt 31
Hyppia 27
Yossi 31
Carra 35

need I go on?

Player of the Season 07/08

FINAL TABLE:

1. Mascherano.............................................93 points
2. Gerrard.....................................................88 points
3. Torres.......................................................80 points
4. Kuyt..........................................................36 points
5. Hyypia.......................................................31 points
6. Pennant.....................................................26 points
7. Benayoun...................................................25 points
8. Carragher...................................................22 points
9. Skrtel.........................................................21 points
10.Babel.........................................................20 points
11.Reina........................................................16 points
12.Lucas.........................................................14 points
13.Aurelio......................................................11 points
14.Alonso.......................................................8 points
15.Voronin/Finnan/Crouch............................7 points
16.Arbeloa......................................................5 points
17.Sissoko/Itandje..........................................4 points
18.Plessis........................................ ...............3 points
19.Kewell......................................... .............. 2 points
20.Hobbs/El Zhar.............................................1 point.
 
I can't think of one person who was disappointed to lose him, even on a free.

I think that says more, Vlad. The only stigma attached to him, IMO, was he was never going to be good enough.

In his defence he should've played more when Dirk was sincerely out of form, I will say that.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36082.msg953045#msg953045 date=1254160413]
I can't think of one person who was disappointed to lose him, even on a free.

I think that says more, Vlad. The only stigma attached to him, IMO, was he was never going to be good enough.

In his defence he should've played more when Dirk was sincerely out of form, I will say that.
[/quote]

Of course I wasn't dissapointed, and no one else was , because by the time he went he had been left in the wilderness for a season.
I am not here to stick up for pennant as I think he was a great player, he wasn't, but not as bad a people like to think, as I have demonstrated, he's just another that got a raw deal

regards
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=36082.msg953058#msg953058 date=1254162488]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36082.msg953045#msg953045 date=1254160413]
I can't think of one person who was disappointed to lose him, even on a free.

I think that says more, Vlad. The only stigma attached to him, IMO, was he was never going to be good enough.

In his defence he should've played more when Dirk was sincerely out of form, I will say that.
[/quote]

Of course I wasn't dissapointed, and no one else was , because by the time he went he had been left in the wilderness for a season.
I am not here to stick up for pennant as I think he was a great player, he wasn't, but not as bad a people like to think, as I have demonstrated, he's just another that got a raw deal

regards
[/quote]

Who cares though, really?
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=36082.msg953058#msg953058 date=1254162488]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36082.msg953045#msg953045 date=1254160413]
I can't think of one person who was disappointed to lose him, even on a free.

I think that says more, Vlad. The only stigma attached to him, IMO, was he was never going to be good enough.

In his defence he should've played more when Dirk was sincerely out of form, I will say that.
[/quote]

he's just another that got a raw deal

regards
[/quote]

Who are the others that have got raw deals in your opinion Vlad?
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=36082.msg953058#msg953058 date=1254162488]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36082.msg953045#msg953045 date=1254160413]
I can't think of one person who was disappointed to lose him, even on a free.

I think that says more, Vlad. The only stigma attached to him, IMO, was he was never going to be good enough.

In his defence he should've played more when Dirk was sincerely out of form, I will say that.
[/quote]

Of course I wasn't dissapointed, and no one else was , because by the time he went he had been left in the wilderness for a season.
I am not here to stick up for pennant as I think he was a great player, he wasn't, but not as bad a people like to think, as I have demonstrated, he's just another that got a raw deal

regards
[/quote]

Most players who are sold or upgraded think that they have a raw deal. It's football. The ball is round and all that. At the end of the day, he made millions from us so it can't be all bad. He's so good, who does he play for again? Glenn Johnson has almost scored as many as he has and that pretty much sums up his contribution. The bar got raised and he didn't rise with it.
 
At the beginning of his career Pennant signs for the Arse, thinks he should be playing more, manager gets rid. Some success follows at middling clubs. When he signs for us, years later, the sequence of events at the Arse repeats itself. For all Pennant's attempt to justify his reaction to Rafa by bigging up Wenger, both of them came to the same conclusion about him.
 
Yes, the volte-face about Wenger really was pathetic. He's bad-mouthed him plenty of times in the past. The following - from 2007 - is one of his more moderate critiques of how poor little Jermaine always gets a raw deal:

Jermaine Pennant believes part of the reason he failed to make the grade under Arsene Wenger at Arsenal is because he is English.

Pennant became the most expensive teenager in the country when the Gunners invested £2million in his fledgling talents to sign the 16-year-old from Notts County in January 1999.

But he was unable to force his way into Wenger's plans and, after rebuilding his career with Birmingham, attracted the interest of Rafael Benitez who brought him to Anfield in a £6.7million deal in summer 2006.

The winger, who will not be involved when the Reds take on his former club on Sunday as he recovers from surgery on a stress fracture to his right tibia, still feels the odds are stacked against home-grown players under Wenger.

He told The Independent: "There has got to be something. If you look now there are no English players in the squad, apart from Theo (Walcott) and he's not a regular, even though he's been there for a while now.

"I always felt we got overlooked. The facts speak for themselves. There are no English players in that team so he must have something, not necessarily against them, but that they don't fit into his philosophy.

"He likes the foreign players more. Maybe he believes their attributes are better. And that's his choice."

Despite failing to make his mark in North London, Pennant has few regrets over his switch to Highbury and admits the club did everything they could to help him settle.

He added: "You can't say no to a club like Arsenal. I just thought 'It's got to be the right move'.

"And, looking back, it wasn't a bad one, although, with hindsight, maybe I should have stayed at Notts County for another year, played for the first team, maybe it would have helped me at Arsenal more.

"They tried to make things as easy as possible for me. But I was there for almost seven years and I made five first-team starts and a handful of appearances coming on as a sub. And that did take its toll."
Click to expand...

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11670_2828559,00.html#
 
Again: Here's Pennant from two years ago -

"Arsene's never sat me down and said this is what I want, this is what I want to sort out, so I've been more or less left to wonder if I've got a future here,"
Click to expand...

And here's pennant from a few day's ago -

He said: “Wenger was more relaxed than Benitez, he would give me proper advice.
Click to expand...

All about man management, isn't it, Jermaine?
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=36082.msg953102#msg953102 date=1254164820]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=36082.msg953058#msg953058 date=1254162488]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36082.msg953045#msg953045 date=1254160413]
I can't think of one person who was disappointed to lose him, even on a free.

I think that says more, Vlad. The only stigma attached to him, IMO, was he was never going to be good enough.

In his defence he should've played more when Dirk was sincerely out of form, I will say that.
[/quote]

he's just another that got a raw deal

regards
[/quote]

Who are the others that have got raw deals in your opinion Vlad?
[/quote]

Fair question, but I can't be arsed Rafa. I think two or three are easy to work out, but anyone who has a hole in their arse would realise that Pennant might be more than a little bitter and more than a bit thick, but there is more than just an element of truth in what he says.
 
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