Paisley vs. Ferguson

[Bradley]

Re: Paisely vs. Ferguson

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=33825.msg877624#msg877624 date=1243513891]
[quote author=leftpeg link=topic=33825.msg877530#msg877530 date=1243510117]
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=33825.msg877512#msg877512 date=1243509486]
He was lucky to be trusted with another job after what happened to him at St Mirren.
[/quote]

But who could argue that whoever did trust him with another job showed reasonable judgement and acumen?
[/quote]

I'm not knocking his results, but he broke every rule in the book at St Mirren, was made to look a prat in court and would be hounded out of the game today if he was caught doing the same things. The big thing he learned at that time was to exploit his connections and cover his tracks, but he's still the same old shady character.
[/quote]

What did he get up to at St Mirren?

 

[Spionkop69]

Re: Paisely vs. Ferguson

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=33825.msg877624#msg877624 date=1243513891]
[quote author=leftpeg link=topic=33825.msg877530#msg877530 date=1243510117]
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=33825.msg877512#msg877512 date=1243509486]
He was lucky to be trusted with another job after what happened to him at St Mirren.
[/quote]

But who could argue that whoever did trust him with another job showed reasonable judgement and acumen?
[/quote]

I'm not knocking his results, but he broke every rule in the book at St Mirren, was made to look a prat in court and would be hounded out of the game today if he was caught doing the same things. The big thing he learned at that time was to exploit his connections and cover his tracks, but he's still the same old shady character.
[/quote]

Your knowledge of these types of shady doings bring that extra dimension to the site. Its like we all know he's dodgt and you bring an element of "truth" to it all. I like!

 

[vantage]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33825.msg877605#msg877605 date=1243512358]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=33825.msg877602#msg877602 date=1243512177]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33825.msg877592#msg877592 date=1243512045]
Imagine if Le Chacal tripped and fell down the stairs.
[/quote]

There'd be a loud clunk from all that gold he had stashed away in his pockets.
[/quote]

I'm trying to keep my digs to one a day Sheiky, you're not helping though mate.
[/quote]

Go for it mate. He'll be OK.

 

[mark1975]

Re: Paisely vs. Ferguson

[quote author=leftpeg link=topic=33825.msg877443#msg877443 date=1243507202]
Nobody can seriously knock Ferguson's record as a manager. Even his achievements at Aberdeen were remarkable. However, Bob's six titles in nine seasons, arguably when the English top-flight was more competitive than it is now (when it's a 3 or 4 horse race every year) stands out and may never be bettered. Throw in his 3 European Cups in 5 years and he is, for me, the greatest club manager of all time. With the exception of his signing of the King, he did all of this on a relatively small budget. And perhaps most importantly, he did so with good grace and humour. Ferguson might be a Knight, but Bob was a gentleman.

Ferguson has the numerical edge because he's been there for so long. Bob didn't have such longevity because we had Shankly before him and Fagan after him. That's the stuff that dynasties are built on.
[/quote]

Great post that Peggy.

 

[gkmacca]

After one internal complaint too many, the board at St Mirren started to investigate what young Ginsoak had actually been up to and were startled at how many scams and skirmishes he'd been involved in. He'd arranged secret unauthorised payments to some of his own players. He'd assaulted a member of staff. He'd leaked information to a local hack in return for 'special' payments. He accepted payment from a third party for use of the club's social rooms. He routinely abused his expense account. He was caught 'giving information about the match score (of his own team) to a bookie prior to matches'. He was also found to have had ongoing 'arrangements' with agents over unauthorised payments as part of transfer deals. The club then found out that he'd not only been talking to Aberdeen behind their backs but also calling certain players into his office to discuss what their transfer deals would involve if he went there and took them with him, so they decided to get rid of him in the least messy way by concentrating on the breach of contract. Then Ginsoak had the gall to protest, taking the club to an unfair dismissal tribunal, where, to his embarrassment, even more dirt came out, including confirmed accounts of staff maltreatment and abuse of his position. An example was his intimidating behaviour towards his office secretary because he wanted players to get some expenses tax free and she, quite properly, had queried whether that was legal. He didn't speak to her for six weeks, confiscated her keys, locked her out of her own office and communicated only through a 17-year-old assistant. The tribunal threw out his complaint and gave him no leave of appeal, concluding that Ginsoak was 'particularly petty' and 'immature'. The local press later branded him a liar for denying in court that he'd been tapped up when proof was then found to confirm that he HAD been.

So, fine, he goes on to have a great career, and certainly proves himself as a manager, so now St Mirren are routinely mocked for having sacked him, whereas in reality they were the last club to stand up to him. Little tricks like sending referee Phillip Don's daughter match tickets for the directors' box at OT, birthday presents and club merchandise plus a pair of tickets for the 1994 FA Cup Final, and inviting Don's son to travel up from North London throughout one summer to use the OT gym and physio unit because, er, he was into athletics - all while Don was refereeing his matches? No suggestion, m'lud, that Don himself was anything other than upright and professional, but would anyone other than Ginsoak get away with this, and so many other, shady antics? What he learned from St Mirren was to do things like get on the LMA and rule it, buy friendships and get his retaliation in first. He became far cannier, and slippier, but no less crooked.

 

[Bradley]

Cheers, was that all in a BBC documentary a few years back?

A lot of it seems familiar.

 

[gkmacca]

Well, I was careful to keep it 'public domain'. I doubt the Don story was but it's widely known and has been confirmed by very good sources. The thing is that St Mirren and the tribunal just saw a bloke acting illegitimately. Since then, clubs and authorities see Slur Alex and experience temporary blindness when it comes to the actual facts.

 

[peekay]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=33825.msg877660#msg877660 date=1243517315]
After one internal complaint too many, the board at St Mirren started to investigate what young Ginsoak had actually been up to and were startled at how many scams and skirmishes he'd been involved in. He'd arranged secret unauthorised payments to some of his own players. He'd assaulted a member of staff. He'd leaked information to a local hack in return for 'special' payments. He accepted payment from a third party for use of the club's social rooms. He routinely abused his expense account. He was caught 'giving information about the match score (of his own team) to a bookie prior to matches'. He was also found to have had ongoing 'arrangements' with agents over unauthorised payments as part of transfer deals. The club then found out that he'd not only been talking to Aberdeen behind their backs but also calling certain players into his office to discuss what their transfer deals would involve if he went there and took them with him, so they decided to get rid of him in the least messy way by concentrating on the breach of contract. Then Ginsoak had the gall to protest, taking the club to an unfair dismissal tribunal, where, to his embarrassment, even more dirt came out, including confirmed accounts of staff maltreatment and abuse of his position. An example was his intimidating behaviour towards his office secretary because he wanted players to get some expenses tax free and she, quite properly, had queried whether that was legal. He didn't speak to her for six weeks, confiscated her keys, locked her out of her own office and communicated only through a 17-year-old assistant. The tribunal threw out his complaint and gave him no leave of appeal, concluding that Ginsoak was 'particularly petty' and 'immature'. The local press later branded him a liar for denying in court that he'd been tapped up when proof was then found to confirm that he HAD been.

So, fine, he goes on to have a great career, and certainly proves himself as a manager, so now St Mirren are routinely mocked for having sacked him, whereas in reality they were the last club to stand up to him. Little tricks like sending referee Phillip Don's daughter match tickets for the directors' box at OT, birthday presents and club merchandise plus a pair of tickets for the 1994 FA Cup Final, and inviting Don's son to travel up from North London throughout one summer to use the OT gym and physio unit because, er, he was into athletics - all while Don was refereeing his matches? No suggestion, m'lud, that Don himself was anything other than upright and professional, but would anyone other than Ginsoak get away with this, and so many other, shady antics? What he learned from St Mirren was to do things like get on the LMA and rule it, buy friendships and get his retaliation in first. He became far cannier, and slippier, but no less crooked.

[/quote]

I dont care if this is true or not. I believe every word you say about him 😀

 

[dirtyho]

Read this on another forum.
Made me laugh...

Ode to Slur Alex

Twenty three years he's been chasing his dreams, Nineteen league titles at the theatre of screams. One more after this, three more european cups, One sour faced Scot and a team of cock ups. A scots false messiah who bought a knighthood, They once wanted him out and bayed for his blood. And lest we forget his ego of course, Brought their club to its knees for the sake of a horse. His interviews teach us how not to behave, Contempt that makes Busby turn in his grave. So always remember as a blind devotee, What took him six years took the king Kenny three. And what will hurt most of his glories bygone, What took him twelve seasons took a fat spaniard one.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Haha.

 

[doctor_mac]

haha like it.

 

[H]

May 28, 2009
Forever In Our Shadow
"Are you watching Merseyside" the assembled United masses sang before the game in Rome last night. Yes, we are. And how we enjoyed it.

The United fan base have this unhealthy obsession with Liverpool, with everything they do being measured against our own achievements. They cannot play a single game without their fans singing about Liverpool. Everything they strive for exists at the other end of the M62. The odd blog from myself does not constitute hypocrisy on that front. We go to the game to support our own side and very rarely sing about others unless we happen to be playing them. The hatred and jealousy United fans have for us doesn't allow them to do that.

After living in our shadow for so long, they can now see The Lying Rag blazing down just a few steps away. Just a couple more strides and they'll walk from that shadow and cast one of their own as the most successful club in the land. They can see the light, and last night missed a huge opportunity to take another huge step away from that darkness.


Alex Ferguson postponed his retirement a number of years ago for one reason only; to win more European Cups.

He has continually stated himself, that to be classed as a truly great side you have to win at least 2 European Cups with the same group of players. You have to win the big one more than once. Thus far he has managed to win it twice, but with each being almost a decade apart. Last night was his chance to achieve his dream and allow self congratulation of drawing alongside the man that casts a constant shadow over him; Bob Paisley.

Ferguson will not rest until he's equalled or surpassed the European Cup haul of Sir Bob. No matter how many league titles he wins, it's the European Cup that really matters, and the trophy that is still the holy grail for all, no matter what anyone says. It may be becoming a tedious competition, with the repetitive nature of playing sides from your own country time and time again, but it's still the one that sets apart the good sides from the great sides. Alex Ferguson will tell you exactly the same.

Arsenal and Chelsea have won the league in recent years, but neither of them have a European Cup to their name. Alex Ferguson has 11 league titles under his belt, but only 2 European Cups; and that hurts him. It also highlights just how special those European successes are.

There are 14 managers that have won 2 European Cups; Alex Ferguson just remains a name amongst that 14, with only one manager standing over the rest having amassed a collection of 3 European Cups. That man is Bob Paisley.

Ferguson might not admit it publically, but he knows that Bob Paisley is the greatest manager of all time. He knows that what Bob achieved in his time at Liverpool will never be surpassed.

Paisley - 6 league titles and 3 European Cups in 9 years

Ferguson - 11 league titles and 2 European Cups in 22 years

If Paisley had another 13 years in charge of Liverpool, giving him a 22 year reign, imagine how many European Cups he could have brought home.

He won the equivalent of 1 European Cup every 3 years. Ferguson has 1 every 10 years.

He won the league 2 out of 3 seasons. Ferguson has won it 1 in 2.

It's not even a contest.

Barcelona last night exposed the lack of "greatness" about this current Manchester United side. The majesty of Iniesta and Xavi in midfield making the axis of Carrick and Anderson look second rate. That's £35m worth of Carrick and Anderson by the way.

£70m rated Ronaldo, £30m purchases Rooney and Berbatov and a £30m striker in Carlos Tevez all on the field for the last half an hour and could do nothing to even threat the Barcelona goal. £160m worth of attacking talent that offered hardly anything. A side put together for vast amounts and completely outclassed by Barcelona.

Where does Ferguson go from here? Open the cheque book again?

This summer is absolutely massive for both Manchester United and Liverpool. We are both level on 18 league titles and as closely matched on the field as we have been in decades. The moves made in the transfer market this summer by both clubs will be crucial in who takes the advantage come next May.

But one advantage I'm convinced Alex Ferguson will never hold, is the one that really matters when separating success from greatness; European Cup glory. We're staying on our perch Alex.

Liverpool 5-3 Man Utd

Forever In Our Shadow

Paul Jones
Times Fanzine Fanzone

 

[Jürgen4PM]

He writes some great articles.

 

[keniget]

There has been some absolutely absurd nonsense written after the final.

I mean, it was hugely enjoyable and funny, but when you start trying to make serious points centred around "where do they go from here?", it all starts to become a little cringeworthy. They've just won the title three seasons in a row and picked up other trophies including the CL. The simple fact is that Ronaldo was the only one to turn on the night and Fergie got it horribly wrong. There is nothing more to it.