Pacheco
- Thread starter mr_moo
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Status
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=44673.msg1310055#msg1310055 date=1301914457]
Tougher test for him next week as Norwich travel to Swansea who are a decent team and have only conceded 9 goals at home all season.
[/quote]
The only way for a player to improve is to play competitive football. Pacheco will improve at Norwich. The lad is out to prove a point and I expect him to do well.
Tougher test for him next week as Norwich travel to Swansea who are a decent team and have only conceded 9 goals at home all season.
[/quote]
The only way for a player to improve is to play competitive football. Pacheco will improve at Norwich. The lad is out to prove a point and I expect him to do well.
If he gets promoted with Norwich this season, would you like to see him kept there another season? A season in the premiership would do him wonders, and maybe he'd come back ready for our first team. Saying that, the main worry is that after being away from the club for 1.5years, would he want to come back?
even if patches is absolutely AMAZING in his loan spell I still don't know where he fits here.
a) he is not a wide midfielder
(I would have thought we've had our fill of trying to convert strikers)
b) our front line is 50m +
so he'll come here and sit on the bench, AGAIN.
a) he is not a wide midfielder
(I would have thought we've had our fill of trying to convert strikers)
b) our front line is 50m +
so he'll come here and sit on the bench, AGAIN.
He should have been breaking into the first team by now. I'm not saying that's necessarily his fault though.
Looks like a decent performance in his game for Norwich:
Can be found here:
http://milankakabaros.blogspot.com/
Looks like a decent performance in his game for Norwich:
Can be found here:
http://milankakabaros.blogspot.com/
The biggest problem that arose in Pacheco's attempt to break into the first team is that none of Rafa, Roy(especially), and it seems Kenny too have a clue where he plays best. If he isn't playing in the whole then his best position is undoubtedly the LWF role. It is quite unfortunate for him that we just bought a world class player who excels in the same exact positions. But watching Roy try and shoehorn him into the RW just because he is right footed was painful. Its clear to anyone who has spent sometime watching him that he is that special type of player that can cut in on his strong foot effectively because he can always cross or shoot. He was instrumental for Spains U19s from that position and I have no doubt that he would have been a better option out there than Maxi and Cole this year, or even Yossi last year. Its a shame as we needed his input but unfortunately I'm relatively sure his Liverpool career is now over, especially if we address the LW spot this summer, which we'd be mad not to.
[quote author=Shelvey link=topic=44673.msg1310191#msg1310191 date=1301932410]
The biggest problem that arose in Pacheco's attempt to break into the first team is that none of Rafa, Roy(especially), and it seems Kenny too have a clue where he plays best. If he isn't playing in the whole then his best position is undoubtedly the LWF role. It is quite unfortunate for him that we just bought a world class player who excels in the same exact positions. But watching Roy try and shoehorn him into the RW just because he is right footed was painful. Its clear to anyone who has spent sometime watching him that he is that special type of player that can cut in on his strong foot effectively because he can always cross or shoot. He was instrumental for Spains U19s from that position and I have no doubt that he would have been a better option out there than Maxi and Cole this year, or even Yossi last year. Its a shame as we needed his input but unfortunately I'm relatively sure his Liverpool career is now over, especially if we address the LW spot this summer, which we'd be mad not to.
[/quote]
With Gerrard out surely an opportunity to play him there though ?
The biggest problem that arose in Pacheco's attempt to break into the first team is that none of Rafa, Roy(especially), and it seems Kenny too have a clue where he plays best. If he isn't playing in the whole then his best position is undoubtedly the LWF role. It is quite unfortunate for him that we just bought a world class player who excels in the same exact positions. But watching Roy try and shoehorn him into the RW just because he is right footed was painful. Its clear to anyone who has spent sometime watching him that he is that special type of player that can cut in on his strong foot effectively because he can always cross or shoot. He was instrumental for Spains U19s from that position and I have no doubt that he would have been a better option out there than Maxi and Cole this year, or even Yossi last year. Its a shame as we needed his input but unfortunately I'm relatively sure his Liverpool career is now over, especially if we address the LW spot this summer, which we'd be mad not to.
[/quote]
With Gerrard out surely an opportunity to play him there though ?
sure:
Meireles Lucas
Kuyt Suarez Pacheco
Carroll
with Suarez and Pacheco being interchangeable looks very good but I think Kenny must also have been unaware of his best position. Its all been a mess in the way we have handled him and I think losing him will be the last failure that can be attributed to the previous regime.
Meireles Lucas
Kuyt Suarez Pacheco
Carroll
with Suarez and Pacheco being interchangeable looks very good but I think Kenny must also have been unaware of his best position. Its all been a mess in the way we have handled him and I think losing him will be the last failure that can be attributed to the previous regime.
He is a support striker and that is where he should play or be sold, it's like we never learn our lesson, how many strikers have we had that should have played through the middle but were shunted out wide just to get them in the team. I'd advocate keeping him because;
A) he is younger and cheaper than cole
B) Suarez can't play every game
But while patches is waiting for Suarez to get injured he is sitting on the bench not developing and can we even guarantee he would play even if Suarez WERE to get injured, I'm pretty sure kenny would use a more experienced player. If patches wants to develop he'll have to move on.
A) he is younger and cheaper than cole
B) Suarez can't play every game
But while patches is waiting for Suarez to get injured he is sitting on the bench not developing and can we even guarantee he would play even if Suarez WERE to get injured, I'm pretty sure kenny would use a more experienced player. If patches wants to develop he'll have to move on.
I know it was the Championship and I know it was only one game but surely Pacheco is good enough to be playing premier league football. We should have loaned him out all year, just like Cleverly and Wellbeck have been. If Norwich go up he should spend the year with them next year and get games under his belt.
Can he be any worse than Maxi as a sub option for us? Very odd that Kenny has used him more as he is very quick to place his confidence in our younger players.
Can he be any worse than Maxi as a sub option for us? Very odd that Kenny has used him more as he is very quick to place his confidence in our younger players.
I think it is very disingenous of all those questioning Kenny's thinking in not playing Pacheco, especially when he has been quick to give other youth players like Kelly, Wilson, Spearing and Shelvey a chance to shine.
Now Dani may turn out to be a fine player in the future but it is clear that his developement has stalled and while he looked decent in the clip of his Norwich debut he was hardly pulling up trees either. Remember, it was the Championship, and lots of our lesser lights have had staring cameo roles in Championship sides while out on loan before only for their Liverpool and Premiership careers to come to nothing.
Personally I think it is way over the top to be thinking of him as the messiah, though no doubt many of the people claiming he is so is also calling for Stirling and Suso to play in the first team.
If it is all right with you I will chose to agree with the opinion of someone who has played and managed at the highest level of the game, for forty odd years.
Now Dani may turn out to be a fine player in the future but it is clear that his developement has stalled and while he looked decent in the clip of his Norwich debut he was hardly pulling up trees either. Remember, it was the Championship, and lots of our lesser lights have had staring cameo roles in Championship sides while out on loan before only for their Liverpool and Premiership careers to come to nothing.
Personally I think it is way over the top to be thinking of him as the messiah, though no doubt many of the people claiming he is so is also calling for Stirling and Suso to play in the first team.
If it is all right with you I will chose to agree with the opinion of someone who has played and managed at the highest level of the game, for forty odd years.
[quote author=the count link=topic=44673.msg1310232#msg1310232 date=1301941396]
I think it is very disingenous of all those questioning Kenny's thinking in not playing Pacheco, especially when he has been quick to give other youth players like Kelly, Wilson, Spearing and Shelvey a chance to shine.
Now Dani may turn out to be a fine player in the future but it is clear that his developement has stalled and while he looked decent in the clip of his Norwich debut he was hardly pulling up trees either. Remember, it was the Championship, and lots of our lesser lights have had staring cameo roles in Championship sides while out on loan before only for their Liverpool and Premiership careers to come to nothing.
Personally I think it is way over the top to be thinking of him as the messiah, though no doubt many of the people claiming he is so is also calling for Stirling and Suso to play in the first team.
If it is all right with you I will chose to agree with the opinion of someone who has played and managed at the highest level of the game, for forty odd years.
[/quote]
Here's your answer:
Kelly - Scouse
Wilson - Scottish
Spearing - Scouse
Shelvey - English
That's why. It seems a bit mad I admit but I somehow believe that the English/British youth players are more preferred than the foreigners.
Kelly has deserved it, but I can't see another player on that list that is more deserving than Pacheco.
I think it is very disingenous of all those questioning Kenny's thinking in not playing Pacheco, especially when he has been quick to give other youth players like Kelly, Wilson, Spearing and Shelvey a chance to shine.
Now Dani may turn out to be a fine player in the future but it is clear that his developement has stalled and while he looked decent in the clip of his Norwich debut he was hardly pulling up trees either. Remember, it was the Championship, and lots of our lesser lights have had staring cameo roles in Championship sides while out on loan before only for their Liverpool and Premiership careers to come to nothing.
Personally I think it is way over the top to be thinking of him as the messiah, though no doubt many of the people claiming he is so is also calling for Stirling and Suso to play in the first team.
If it is all right with you I will chose to agree with the opinion of someone who has played and managed at the highest level of the game, for forty odd years.
[/quote]
Here's your answer:
Kelly - Scouse
Wilson - Scottish
Spearing - Scouse
Shelvey - English
That's why. It seems a bit mad I admit but I somehow believe that the English/British youth players are more preferred than the foreigners.
Kelly has deserved it, but I can't see another player on that list that is more deserving than Pacheco.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44673.msg1310235#msg1310235 date=1301942238]
[quote author=the count link=topic=44673.msg1310232#msg1310232 date=1301941396]
I think it is very disingenous of all those questioning Kenny's thinking in not playing Pacheco, especially when he has been quick to give other youth players like Kelly, Wilson, Spearing and Shelvey a chance to shine.
Now Dani may turn out to be a fine player in the future but it is clear that his developement has stalled and while he looked decent in the clip of his Norwich debut he was hardly pulling up trees either. Remember, it was the Championship, and lots of our lesser lights have had staring cameo roles in Championship sides while out on loan before only for their Liverpool and Premiership careers to come to nothing.
Personally I think it is way over the top to be thinking of him as the messiah, though no doubt many of the people claiming he is so is also calling for Stirling and Suso to play in the first team.
If it is all right with you I will chose to agree with the opinion of someone who has played and managed at the highest level of the game, for forty odd years.
[/quote]
Here's your answer:
Kelly - Scouse
Wilson - Scottish
Spearing - Scouse
Shelvey - English
That's why. It seems a bit mad I admit but I somehow believe that the English/British youth players are more preferred than the foreigners.
Kelly has deserved it, but I can't see another player on that list that is more deserving than Pacheco.
[/quote]So Kenny is a racist. Right!
[quote author=the count link=topic=44673.msg1310232#msg1310232 date=1301941396]
I think it is very disingenous of all those questioning Kenny's thinking in not playing Pacheco, especially when he has been quick to give other youth players like Kelly, Wilson, Spearing and Shelvey a chance to shine.
Now Dani may turn out to be a fine player in the future but it is clear that his developement has stalled and while he looked decent in the clip of his Norwich debut he was hardly pulling up trees either. Remember, it was the Championship, and lots of our lesser lights have had staring cameo roles in Championship sides while out on loan before only for their Liverpool and Premiership careers to come to nothing.
Personally I think it is way over the top to be thinking of him as the messiah, though no doubt many of the people claiming he is so is also calling for Stirling and Suso to play in the first team.
If it is all right with you I will chose to agree with the opinion of someone who has played and managed at the highest level of the game, for forty odd years.
[/quote]
Here's your answer:
Kelly - Scouse
Wilson - Scottish
Spearing - Scouse
Shelvey - English
That's why. It seems a bit mad I admit but I somehow believe that the English/British youth players are more preferred than the foreigners.
Kelly has deserved it, but I can't see another player on that list that is more deserving than Pacheco.
[/quote]So Kenny is a racist. Right!
[quote author=the count link=topic=44673.msg1310237#msg1310237 date=1301942348]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44673.msg1310235#msg1310235 date=1301942238]
[quote author=the count link=topic=44673.msg1310232#msg1310232 date=1301941396]
I think it is very disingenous of all those questioning Kenny's thinking in not playing Pacheco, especially when he has been quick to give other youth players like Kelly, Wilson, Spearing and Shelvey a chance to shine.
Now Dani may turn out to be a fine player in the future but it is clear that his developement has stalled and while he looked decent in the clip of his Norwich debut he was hardly pulling up trees either. Remember, it was the Championship, and lots of our lesser lights have had staring cameo roles in Championship sides while out on loan before only for their Liverpool and Premiership careers to come to nothing.
Personally I think it is way over the top to be thinking of him as the messiah, though no doubt many of the people claiming he is so is also calling for Stirling and Suso to play in the first team.
If it is all right with you I will chose to agree with the opinion of someone who has played and managed at the highest level of the game, for forty odd years.
[/quote]
Here's your answer:
Kelly - Scouse
Wilson - Scottish
Spearing - Scouse
Shelvey - English
That's why. It seems a bit mad I admit but I somehow believe that the English/British youth players are more preferred than the foreigners.
Kelly has deserved it, but I can't see another player on that list that is more deserving than Pacheco.
[/quote]So Kenny is a racist. Right!
[/quote]
No, but every now and then a person working with the youths or someone involved in the club comes out and says that we need to develop more English players etc.
I think it's the system.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44673.msg1310235#msg1310235 date=1301942238]
[quote author=the count link=topic=44673.msg1310232#msg1310232 date=1301941396]
I think it is very disingenous of all those questioning Kenny's thinking in not playing Pacheco, especially when he has been quick to give other youth players like Kelly, Wilson, Spearing and Shelvey a chance to shine.
Now Dani may turn out to be a fine player in the future but it is clear that his developement has stalled and while he looked decent in the clip of his Norwich debut he was hardly pulling up trees either. Remember, it was the Championship, and lots of our lesser lights have had staring cameo roles in Championship sides while out on loan before only for their Liverpool and Premiership careers to come to nothing.
Personally I think it is way over the top to be thinking of him as the messiah, though no doubt many of the people claiming he is so is also calling for Stirling and Suso to play in the first team.
If it is all right with you I will chose to agree with the opinion of someone who has played and managed at the highest level of the game, for forty odd years.
[/quote]
Here's your answer:
Kelly - Scouse
Wilson - Scottish
Spearing - Scouse
Shelvey - English
That's why. It seems a bit mad I admit but I somehow believe that the English/British youth players are more preferred than the foreigners.
Kelly has deserved it, but I can't see another player on that list that is more deserving than Pacheco.
[/quote]So Kenny is a racist. Right!
[/quote]
No, but every now and then a person working with the youths or someone involved in the club comes out and says that we need to develop more English players etc.
I think it's the system.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44673.msg1310240#msg1310240 date=1301942792]
No, but every now and then a person working with the youths or someone involved in the club comes out and says that we need to develop more English players etc.
I think it's the system.
[/quote]There is a huge difference between trying to develope an English/British core and not using a player because he doesn't come from there and if you will excuse me but I think it is preposperous to suggest such a thing.
I would suggest that a more likely explanation is that Kenny, like his predecessors Rafa and Roy, simply don't think he is good enough right now.
No, but every now and then a person working with the youths or someone involved in the club comes out and says that we need to develop more English players etc.
I think it's the system.
[/quote]There is a huge difference between trying to develope an English/British core and not using a player because he doesn't come from there and if you will excuse me but I think it is preposperous to suggest such a thing.
I would suggest that a more likely explanation is that Kenny, like his predecessors Rafa and Roy, simply don't think he is good enough right now.
Didn't Mavinga or someone mention that Roy preferred English youngsters and it certainly looks like Kenny is following suit.
Kelly - Scouse
Wilson - Scottish
Spearing - Scouse
Shelvey - English
None of the above players have pulled up trees apart from Kelly.
Pacheco has been a standout player for the Reserves for a while. Whatever happened nobody can really say. Stating that his development has stagnated is pure conjecture.
Pacheco should have been given a run but that's easy when you're not chasing results to get out of the relegation zone.
He couldn't do any worse than Joe Cole or Maxi now could he?
Kelly - Scouse
Wilson - Scottish
Spearing - Scouse
Shelvey - English
None of the above players have pulled up trees apart from Kelly.
Pacheco has been a standout player for the Reserves for a while. Whatever happened nobody can really say. Stating that his development has stagnated is pure conjecture.
Pacheco should have been given a run but that's easy when you're not chasing results to get out of the relegation zone.
He couldn't do any worse than Joe Cole or Maxi now could he?
[quote author=the count link=topic=44673.msg1310246#msg1310246 date=1301943457]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44673.msg1310240#msg1310240 date=1301942792]
No, but every now and then a person working with the youths or someone involved in the club comes out and says that we need to develop more English players etc.
I think it's the system.
[/quote]There is a huge difference between trying to develope an English/British core and not using a player because he doesn't come from there and if you will excuse me but I think it is preposperous to suggest such a thing.
I would suggest that a more likely explanation is that Kenny, like his predecessors Rafa and Roy, simply don't think he is good enough right now.
[/quote]
Granted, but why is he on the bench now and again?
Why was he an instant success in his début game for Norwich?
Why is Spearing in the team and not Pacheco, despite being shite?
I guess we'll just have to wait and see how he does for Norwich in the next seven games.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44673.msg1310240#msg1310240 date=1301942792]
No, but every now and then a person working with the youths or someone involved in the club comes out and says that we need to develop more English players etc.
I think it's the system.
[/quote]There is a huge difference between trying to develope an English/British core and not using a player because he doesn't come from there and if you will excuse me but I think it is preposperous to suggest such a thing.
I would suggest that a more likely explanation is that Kenny, like his predecessors Rafa and Roy, simply don't think he is good enough right now.
[/quote]
Granted, but why is he on the bench now and again?
Why was he an instant success in his début game for Norwich?
Why is Spearing in the team and not Pacheco, despite being shite?
I guess we'll just have to wait and see how he does for Norwich in the next seven games.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44673.msg1310249#msg1310249 date=1301943833]
[quote author=the count link=topic=44673.msg1310246#msg1310246 date=1301943457]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44673.msg1310240#msg1310240 date=1301942792]
No, but every now and then a person working with the youths or someone involved in the club comes out and says that we need to develop more English players etc.
I think it's the system.
[/quote]There is a huge difference between trying to develope an English/British core and not using a player because he doesn't come from there and if you will excuse me but I think it is preposperous to suggest such a thing.
I would suggest that a more likely explanation is that Kenny, like his predecessors Rafa and Roy, simply don't think he is good enough right now.
[/quote]
Granted, but why is he on the bench now and again? We have a small squad and he makes his way up the pecking order occasionally
Why has was he a success in his début game for Norwich? Perhaps because he is a championship level player at the moment, just like Anderson, Hamill, Koncheskey, Mellor etc
Why is Spearing in the team and not Pacheco, despite being shite? Would that be the shite Spearing of the Brom game or the Mom contender Spearing aginst Sunderland?
I guess we'll just have to wait and see how he does for Norwich in the next seven games. I really hope he is brilliant for them but it still doesn't necessarily mean he is going to be our saviour next season
[/quote]
[quote author=the count link=topic=44673.msg1310246#msg1310246 date=1301943457]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44673.msg1310240#msg1310240 date=1301942792]
No, but every now and then a person working with the youths or someone involved in the club comes out and says that we need to develop more English players etc.
I think it's the system.
[/quote]There is a huge difference between trying to develope an English/British core and not using a player because he doesn't come from there and if you will excuse me but I think it is preposperous to suggest such a thing.
I would suggest that a more likely explanation is that Kenny, like his predecessors Rafa and Roy, simply don't think he is good enough right now.
[/quote]
Granted, but why is he on the bench now and again? We have a small squad and he makes his way up the pecking order occasionally
Why has was he a success in his début game for Norwich? Perhaps because he is a championship level player at the moment, just like Anderson, Hamill, Koncheskey, Mellor etc
Why is Spearing in the team and not Pacheco, despite being shite? Would that be the shite Spearing of the Brom game or the Mom contender Spearing aginst Sunderland?
I guess we'll just have to wait and see how he does for Norwich in the next seven games. I really hope he is brilliant for them but it still doesn't necessarily mean he is going to be our saviour next season
[/quote]
When he played for us he looked nervous, indecisive and somewhat out of his depth. Moving to norwich on loan will hopefully improve his confidence and give him more game time, which in turn will hopefully benefit us long term.
It's really not that complicated.
It's really not that complicated.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44673.msg1310209#msg1310209 date=1301937864]
He is a support striker
[/quote]
A lot of his positive play comes from cutting in from the left. A la David Villa or Pedro when Torres was dropped, both of which he looked surprisingly similar to in style when playing LWF for Spain u19s last summer, which worked very well for both Spain teams last summer. Plus if you noticed when playing support striker for Norwich most of his contributions came from the left. So we'll just add this to the your list of incorrect statements you've preached and ignore the rest of the post.
He is a support striker
[/quote]
A lot of his positive play comes from cutting in from the left. A la David Villa or Pedro when Torres was dropped, both of which he looked surprisingly similar to in style when playing LWF for Spain u19s last summer, which worked very well for both Spain teams last summer. Plus if you noticed when playing support striker for Norwich most of his contributions came from the left. So we'll just add this to the your list of incorrect statements you've preached and ignore the rest of the post.
Don't get me wrong sunny, I think he could be very good, but I also think this loan move is exactly what he needs and find it odd everything is being overly scrutinised.
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=44673.msg1310270#msg1310270 date=1301949787]
Don't get me wrong sunny, I think he could be very good, but I also think this loan move is exactly what he needs and find it odd everything is being overly scrutinised.
[/quote]
X2
Don't get me wrong sunny, I think he could be very good, but I also think this loan move is exactly what he needs and find it odd everything is being overly scrutinised.
[/quote]
X2
So Roy's racist too then. Blimey.
S
Squiggles
Guest
You can only presume that Pacheco has a bit of an attitude and it a lazy trainer.
He fell out with Riera and has showed up late before. Kenny is keen to give youth a chance to shine, but only if they knuckle down and work for it.
If he cannot force his way into our current squad then you have to say the chances are he never will. Not unless something dramatic happens anyway.
He fell out with Riera and has showed up late before. Kenny is keen to give youth a chance to shine, but only if they knuckle down and work for it.
If he cannot force his way into our current squad then you have to say the chances are he never will. Not unless something dramatic happens anyway.
Do you genuinely believe we went for Cole over Aquilani purely because one was English and the other wasn't?
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=44673.msg1310292#msg1310292 date=1301954133]
Do you genuinely believe we went for Cole over Aquilani purely because one was English and the other wasn't?
[/quote]
Might be a bit strong but he was definitely shafted because of Cole.
Do you genuinely believe we went for Cole over Aquilani purely because one was English and the other wasn't?
[/quote]
Might be a bit strong but he was definitely shafted because of Cole.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
