One of the reasons why we lost the title

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=33758.msg875273#msg875273 date=1243330346]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33758.msg875270#msg875270 date=1243330261]
Good Post.

If Parry hadn't signed Keane, then we could all be sitting here celebrating our glorious title winning campaign.
[/quote]

Repeating it doesn't make it true you know.
[/quote]

IMO it is a good post.

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33758.msg875272#msg875272 date=1243330345]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=33758.msg875216#msg875216 date=1243326296]
Maybe you should have worded the title - One of the reasons why we lost the title Part 1: Robbie Keane


[/quote]

One of the reasons why we lost the title

One of the reasons why we lost the title Part 1: Robbie Keane

what's the difference?
[/quote]

I think spidey might be irony-blind.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33758.msg875280#msg875280 date=1243330758]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=33758.msg875273#msg875273 date=1243330346]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33758.msg875270#msg875270 date=1243330261]
Good Post.

If Parry hadn't signed Keane, then we could all be sitting here celebrating our glorious title winning campaign.
[/quote]

Repeating it doesn't make it true you know.
[/quote]

IMO it is a good post.
[/quote]

You're wrong about everything though Rafa

 

[spider-Neil]

I don't think the keane signing cost us the title but I do think it was ill advised to attemt to break up the gerrard torres axis and (okay hindsight is 20/20) but the money used for keane/riera/dossena/degen could have been used in a wide player of world class ability. but what's done is done, hopefully rafa will learn from a disasterous summer spending.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=33758.msg875284#msg875284 date=1243330883]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33758.msg875280#msg875280 date=1243330758]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=33758.msg875273#msg875273 date=1243330346]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33758.msg875270#msg875270 date=1243330261]
Good Post.

If Parry hadn't signed Keane, then we could all be sitting here celebrating our glorious title winning campaign.
[/quote]

Repeating it doesn't make it true you know.
[/quote]

IMO it is a good post.
[/quote]

You're wrong about everything though Rafa
[/quote]

Fuck off Rosco, Powell and Rafa are both geniuses !

 

[red_maradona]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33758.msg875288#msg875288 date=1243331008]
I don't think the keane signing cost us the title but I do think it was ill advised to attemt to break up the gerrard torres axis and (okay hindsight is 20/20) but the money used for keane/riera/dossena/degen could have been used in a wide player of world class ability. but what's done is done, hopefully rafa will learn from a disasterous summer spending.
[/quote]

= 35 million :'( :'( :'( :'(

 

[ibromurph]

[quote author=red_maradona link=topic=33758.msg875297#msg875297 date=1243331425]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33758.msg875288#msg875288 date=1243331008]
I don't think the keane signing cost us the title but I do think it was ill advised to attemt to break up the gerrard torres axis and (okay hindsight is 20/20) but the money used for keane/riera/dossena/degen could have been used in a wide player of world class ability. but what's done is done, hopefully rafa will learn from a disasterous summer spending.
[/quote]

= 35 million :'( :'( :'( :'(
[/quote]

= 35 million + a pack of Hubba Bubba :'( :'( :'( :'(

 

[spider-Neil]

the weird thing is despite a disaterous summer in regards to signings we went on to record our highest points tally in the league (post '92) where as with the horrible 'summer of 03' we finished 5th.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=33758.msg875281#msg875281 date=1243330805]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33758.msg875272#msg875272 date=1243330345]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=33758.msg875216#msg875216 date=1243326296]
Maybe you should have worded the title - One of the reasons why we lost the title Part 1: Robbie Keane


[/quote]

One of the reasons why we lost the title

One of the reasons why we lost the title Part 1: Robbie Keane

what's the difference?
[/quote]

I think spidey might be irony-blind.
[/quote]

"Think"?

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=33758.msg875323#msg875323 date=1243333172]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=33758.msg875281#msg875281 date=1243330805]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33758.msg875272#msg875272 date=1243330345]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=33758.msg875216#msg875216 date=1243326296]
Maybe you should have worded the title - One of the reasons why we lost the title Part 1: Robbie Keane


[/quote]

One of the reasons why we lost the title

One of the reasons why we lost the title Part 1: Robbie Keane

what's the difference?
[/quote]

I think spidey might be irony-blind.
[/quote]

"Think"?
[/quote]

isn't irony another metal like zincy?

 

[rage]

many reasons i suppose and i agree it was a good post, no use burying our head in the sand over it or doing a rafa4pm and blaming parry for signing keane (as if!)

my take on it - one of the worst transfer windows for us since houllier's fuck up. degen, dossena, keane, n'gog, reserve keeper and riera cost us 40 odd million. failing to sell pennant, voronin, itandje and the entire barry shit also cost us.

not the only reason but it sure as hell contributed to the 4 points we came up short with pretty much the season before team.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=rage link=topic=33758.msg875432#msg875432 date=1243340466]
many reasons i suppose and i agree it was a good post, no use burying our head in the sand over it or doing a rafa4pm and blaming parry for signing keane (as if!)

my take on it - one of the worst transfer windows for us since houllier's fuck up. degen, dossena, keane, n'gog, reserve keeper and riera cost us 40 odd million. failing to sell pennant, voronin, itandje and the entire barry shit also cost us.

not the only reason but it sure as hell contributed to the 4 points we came up short with pretty much the season before team.
[/quote]

without meaning to do a 'bren hex' (patent TM) rafa can't POSSIBLE have a worse summer again.

 

[cochyn]

[quote author=Roger REDerer link=topic=33758.msg875150#msg875150 date=1243323274]
Dear Silly People,

Please read my post CAREFULLY.

regards,
Roger
[/quote]

well as requested i have read your post and for once it was not silly. I am impressed!!

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=cochyn link=topic=33758.msg875448#msg875448 date=1243341670]
[quote author=Roger REDerer link=topic=33758.msg875150#msg875150 date=1243323274]
Dear Silly People,

Please read my post CAREFULLY.

regards,
Roger
[/quote]

well as requested i have read your post and for once it was not silly. I am impressed!!
[/quote]

There's a myriad of reasons why we lost the title though.

If I was tempted to single out one reason, I'd put it down to experience. We proved in the second half of the season that the quality was more than there, but when we at the top we seemed clueless as to how to stay there, it was like it was all too good to be true. United hardly setting the Premiership alight, while we were in the lofty position of top of the league but struggling to sustain it while in a position of power, we seemed to play better when under pressure and knowing what we HAD to do, much like in the CL in the past.

The second half of the season should serve as a massive focal point for our emergence as title challengers and should act as a major part of our learning curve, we learned how to play and score against the big sides, as opposed to our smash and grab attempts of past seasons, we played and often out-played the more talented sides in Europe and the Premiership, that's been the big difference for us and the difference between us being challengers and also rans.

Hopefully this season will be the stepping stone to something great.

I don't buy into this whole Keane thing though, it was a contributory factor, but not solely his fault, the whole affair was a farce.

 

[Rosco]

I don't blame Keane, I blame the person that bought him.

We had the opportunity to add a top talent, we failed to do that. Ultimately it cost us.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=33758.msg875457#msg875457 date=1243342446]
[quote author=cochyn link=topic=33758.msg875448#msg875448 date=1243341670]
[quote author=Roger REDerer link=topic=33758.msg875150#msg875150 date=1243323274]
Dear Silly People,

Please read my post CAREFULLY.

regards,
Roger
[/quote]

well as requested i have read your post and for once it was not silly. I am impressed!!
[/quote]

There's a myriad of reasons why we lost the title though.

If I was tempted to single out one reason, I'd put it down to experience. We proved in the second half of the season that the quality was more than there, but when we at the top we seemed clueless as to how to stay there, it was like it was all too good to be true. United hardly setting the Premiership alight, while we were in the lofty position of top of the league but struggling to sustain it while in a position of power, we seemed to play better when under pressure and knowing what we HAD to do, much like in the CL in the past.

The second half of the season should serve as a massive focal point for our emergence as title challengers and should act as a major part of our learning curve, we learned how to play and score against the big sides, as opposed to our smash and grab attempts of past seasons, we played and often out-played the more talented sides in Europe and the Premiership, that's been the big difference for us and the difference between us being challengers and also rans.

Hopefully this season will be the stepping stone to something great.

I don't buy into this whole Keane thing though, it was a contributory factor, but not solely his fault, the whole affair was a farce.
[/quote]

experience is definately a factor we have been no where near a challenge for years, this season may well serve us providing we put ourselves in the position again. we went backwards the following season twice when we secured more than 80 points (under gh and rafa).

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=33758.msg875459#msg875459 date=1243342596]
I don't blame Keane, I blame the person that bought him.

We had the opportunity to add a top talent, we failed to do that. Ultimately it cost us.
[/quote]

Pretty much, the whole thing was a cock up, the position, the price, fucking up of our best partnership.. etc.

It was a completely fruitless exercise and ultimately a rather costly, pointless Summer transfer window.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=33758.msg875459#msg875459 date=1243342596]
I don't blame Keane, I blame the person that bought him.

We had the opportunity to add a top talent, we failed to do that. Ultimately it cost us.
[/quote]

well technically we did add top talent unless you number yourself amongst those who thought/think keane is shite.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=33758.msg875464#msg875464 date=1243342803]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=33758.msg875459#msg875459 date=1243342596]
I don't blame Keane, I blame the person that bought him.

We had the opportunity to add a top talent, we failed to do that. Ultimately it cost us.
[/quote]

Pretty much, the whole thing was a cock up, the position, the price, fucking up of our best partnership.. etc.

It was a completely fruitless exercise and ultimately a rather costly, pointless Summer transfer window.
[/quote]

there are many that are being wise after the event, LOADS of people were calling for rafa to go 4-4-2.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33758.msg875466#msg875466 date=1243342817]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=33758.msg875459#msg875459 date=1243342596]
I don't blame Keane, I blame the person that bought him.

We had the opportunity to add a top talent, we failed to do that. Ultimately it cost us.
[/quote]

well technically we did add top talent unless you number yourself amongst those who thought/think keane is shite.
[/quote]

Un fucking real

 

[keniget]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33758.msg875466#msg875466 date=1243342817]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=33758.msg875459#msg875459 date=1243342596]
I don't blame Keane, I blame the person that bought him.

We had the opportunity to add a top talent, we failed to do that. Ultimately it cost us.
[/quote]

well technically we did add top talent unless you number yourself amongst those who thought/think keane is shite.
[/quote]

Errr... where have you been for the last year?

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=33758.msg875471#msg875471 date=1243343001]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33758.msg875466#msg875466 date=1243342817]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=33758.msg875459#msg875459 date=1243342596]
I don't blame Keane, I blame the person that bought him.

We had the opportunity to add a top talent, we failed to do that. Ultimately it cost us.
[/quote]

well technically we did add top talent unless you number yourself amongst those who thought/think keane is shite.
[/quote]

Errr... where have you been for the last year?
[/quote]

I was fishing 😉

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33758.msg875468#msg875468 date=1243342880]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=33758.msg875464#msg875464 date=1243342803]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=33758.msg875459#msg875459 date=1243342596]
I don't blame Keane, I blame the person that bought him.

We had the opportunity to add a top talent, we failed to do that. Ultimately it cost us.
[/quote]

Pretty much, the whole thing was a cock up, the position, the price, fucking up of our best partnership.. etc.

It was a completely fruitless exercise and ultimately a rather costly, pointless Summer transfer window.
[/quote]

there are many that are being wise after the event, LOADS of people were calling for rafa to go 4-4-2.
[/quote]

I wasn't Neil.

I've never advocated puttting Gerrard back into centre midfield, nor limitting Torres' game by having a partner 'alongside' him. He thrives on space and having an intelligent player behind him.

The only feasable reason for buying Keane was as an either/or for Torres and Gerrard, that third option for when injury and fatigue came into play, which is why at £20m it was all bit fucking ridiculous. I swear Rafa didn't know how or where to play Keane. And as a manager who's preferred one upfront throughout his career, you have to question why he'd suddenly want to go against all that at the cost of one of the best partnerships in Europe. Though of course, for those who don't want to question Rafa over it all, there's always the fallback option - Blame Rick Parry.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=33758.msg875475#msg875475 date=1243343078]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33758.msg875468#msg875468 date=1243342880]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=33758.msg875464#msg875464 date=1243342803]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=33758.msg875459#msg875459 date=1243342596]
I don't blame Keane, I blame the person that bought him.

We had the opportunity to add a top talent, we failed to do that. Ultimately it cost us.
[/quote]

Pretty much, the whole thing was a cock up, the position, the price, fucking up of our best partnership.. etc.

It was a completely fruitless exercise and ultimately a rather costly, pointless Summer transfer window.
[/quote]

there are many that are being wise after the event, LOADS of people were calling for rafa to go 4-4-2.
[/quote]

I wasn't Neil.

I've never advocated puttting Gerrard back into centre midfield, nor limitting Torres' game by having a partner 'alongside' him. He thrives on space and having an intelligent player behind him.

The only feasable reason for buying Keane was as an either/or for Torres and Gerrard, that third option for when injury and fatigue came into play, which is why at £20m it was all bit fucking ridiculous. I swear Rafa didn't know how or where to play Keane. And as a manager who's preferred one upfront throughout his career, you have to question why he'd suddenly want to go against all that at the cost of one of the best partnerships in Europe.
[/quote]

well, I've always been an advocate of gerrard playing further up field (I think I was one of the first to suggest this) and I haven't ever really rated keane (hence my bet) I definately wanted rafa to go for a wide player but once keane was actually BOUGHT we should have done our best to get the best out of him (keane) otherwise what a monumental waste of money and time.

 

[mark1975]

Can't argue with that, though I did want Keane to succeed once he'd signed, as I've always liked him as a player and because he's a red.

It just didn't work out, and most of us had our reservations from day one, whether it be a question of his quality or a question of how and where he would play, it was a prime example of one of those moments where there were obvious issues and Rafa seemed blind to it.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=33758.msg875485#msg875485 date=1243343530]
Can't argue with that, though I did want Keane to succeed once he'd signed, as I've always liked him as a player and because he's a red.

It just didn't work out, and most of us had our reservations from day one, whether it be a question of his quality or a question of how and where he would play, it was a prime example of one of those moments where there were obvious issues and Rafa seemed blind to it.
[/quote]

we seem to be in for tevez I think he (tevez) would suit our system a HELL of a lot better than keane.

 

[the count]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=33758.msg875459#msg875459 date=1243342596]
I don't blame Keane, I blame the person that bought him.

We had the opportunity to add a top talent, we failed to do that. Ultimately it cost us.
[/quote]

Your'e right.
Good job Parry is gone, eh Ross?

 

[Avmenon]

Do people actually believe that?

 

[manwithnoname]

well, I've always been an advocate of gerrard playing further up field (I think I was one of the first to suggest this) and I haven't ever really rated keane (hence my bet) I definately wanted rafa to go for a wide player but once keane was actually BOUGHT we should have done our best to get the best out of him (keane) otherwise what a monumental waste of money and time.

Ahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha!

 

[doctor_mac]

I think to give credit to our opponents (much as it pains me), the fact that Utd reeled off the victories in tight games for most of the season, and particularly when we were playing before them, and setting down the marker at the end of the season, was another reason we lost. They didn't panic when behind to Spurs, Villa and Wigan.

We did show league winning form in the run in, but unfortunately the scum held their nerve.