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Oncy

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[quote author=keniget link=topic=36492.msg964919#msg964919 date=1255850517]
I'd take a top 4 finish now if it was offered.
[/quote]

Sadly, so would I.

If we lose to the Scum next weekend, while the other CL chasing clubs win. We could find ourselves 6 points behind 4th place already.
 
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=36492.msg964917#msg964917 date=1255849823]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36492.msg964915#msg964915 date=1255848495]
you build a squad, it peaks to become the best it can, it goes through a transition and you build another one and so on, each time building around your best players at the time. during this time it helps if you win trophies so that the fans don't lose patience during the transition stage. wenger and fergie are the best examples of this.

rafa has done this twice so far. first he managed istanbul by adding to houllier's squad and more recently managed to build a squad that peaked last summer but failed to win trophies. he is now in the 3rd rebuilding phase in his time with us.

he can build a team around our existing crop of best players - reina, johnson, maybe one of skertel or agger, gerrard, yossi and torres.

i know he loves dirk but he is average, masch will be gone in the summer and the rest aren't good enough to be part of the core of a team to build around or are approaching an age where they will decline like carra.

i've not included aquaman as we really don't know what he's going to produce.

so we have 6 players to build around, the questions in my mind are is rafa good enough and will he be given a chance to even try?

as for winning the title this season, well how about we first start by beating someone that is likely to finish in the top 10.





[/quote]

You don't really need more than 8 core players though do you? Just look at Man utd's success over recent years, it's always included some squad fillers who do a good enough job of supporting the key core players. If we've got 6 already (arguably more), we're not that far away as evidenced by last years 2nd place.

The question is, are our squad fillers good enough to do the Fletcher/Evans/Park roles?

As for winning the title, there's no comeback (yet) from your last remark.
[/quote]

Kuyt, Insua and dare I say it, Lucas are good enough to be squad fillers.

Good post by Rage as it does feel like we're a transitional phase at the moment and our average squad age is getting younger. If Mascher does go as predicted this coming summer, then the top priority will be someone to replace him that compliments Aqualiani. The engine room is key to dominating matches and we haven't done enough of that against the better teams this season.

As for this season, the amazing thing is that we've lost 4 times already and yet still can't be ruled out of the race. Beat United next week and we're truly back in it. It's looking as if it is going to be most open title race in years and perhaps a points total in the low 80s may be enough.
 
Another bit of news for Oncy....

Giggs in running for Euro award

Giggs made his Manchester United debut in 1991
Veteran Manchester United winger Ryan Giggs is one of five British footballers nominated for the 2009 European Player of the Year award.

The 35-year-old joins Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard, Wayne Rooney and John Terry on the shortlist for the prize, known as the Ballon d'Or.

Cristiano Ronaldo, who won the award last year, is included but no Italian or German players have been selected.

The winner, chosen by world football writers, will be announced in December.

Giggs, who was named PFA Player of the Year last season, joins team-mates Rooney and Nemanja Vidic on the shortlist.

Chelsea also have three nominees - midfielder Lampard, defender Terry and striker Didier Drogba.

606: DEBATE
Who do you think deserves to win the award?
The other Premier League players on the list are forward Andrey Arshavin and midfielder Cesc Fabregas of Arsenal, with Liverpool striker Fernando Torres joining fellow nominee Gerrard.

Barcelona's Argentinian star Lionel Messi is one of the favourites to win the competition, organised by France Football magazine.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Full list of nominees:

Andrei Arshavin (Russia) Arsenal
Karim Benzema (France) Olympique Lyon then Real Madrid
Iker Casillas (Spain) Real Madrid
Cristiano Ronaldo (Portugal) Manchester United then Real Madrid
Diego (Brazil) Werder Bremen then Juventus
Didier Drogba (Ivory Coast) Chelsea
Edin Dzeko (Bosnia) VfL Wolfsburg
Samuel Eto'o (Cameroon) Barcelona then Inter Milan
Cesc Fabregas (Spain) Arsenal
Fernando Torres (Spain) Liverpool
Diego Forlan (Uruguay) Atletico Madrid
Steven Gerrard (England) Liverpool
Ryan Giggs (Wales) Manchester United
Yoann Gourcuff (France) Bordeaux
Thierry Henry (France) Barcelona
Zlatan Ibrahimovic (Sweden) Inter Milan then Barcelona
Andres Iniesta (Spain) Barcelona
Julio Cesar (Brazil) Inter Milan
Kaka (Brazil) AC Milan then Real Madrid
Frank Lampard (England) Chelsea
Maicon (Brazil) Inter Milan
Lionel Messi (Argentina) Barcelona
Luis Fabiano (Brazil) Sevilla
Franck Ribery (France) Bayern Munich
Wayne Rooney (England) Manchester United
John Terry (England) Chelsea
Nemanja Vidic (Serbia) Manchester United
David Villa (Spain) Valencia
Xavi (Spain) Barcelona
Yaya Toure (Ivory Coast) Barcelona
 
It will be a fucking scandal if he doesnt win it!
He played football of a standard seen before for much of last season.
Must be his year.
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36492.msg965011#msg965011 date=1255869633]
It should be Messi but Ronaldo could grab it if he carries on scoring goals for Real.
[/quote]

The award is for the 2008-09 season, isn't it?
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36492.msg965050#msg965050 date=1255874433]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36492.msg965011#msg965011 date=1255869633]
It should be Messi but Ronaldo could grab it if he carries on scoring goals for Real.
[/quote]

The award is for the 2008-09 season, isn't it?
[/quote]
No for the year 2009.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36492.msg964919#msg964919 date=1255850517]
I'd take a top 4 finish now if it was offered.
[/quote]

Same :'(
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36492.msg965066#msg965066 date=1255875493]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36492.msg965050#msg965050 date=1255874433]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36492.msg965011#msg965011 date=1255869633]
It should be Messi but Ronaldo could grab it if he carries on scoring goals for Real.
[/quote]

The award is for the 2008-09 season, isn't it?
[/quote]
No for the year 2009.
[/quote]

Bizarre. Still, it surely has to go to a Barca player after they won the treble. Xavi, Iniesta or Messi.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36492.msg964919#msg964919 date=1255850517]
I'd take a top 4 finish now if it was offered.
[/quote]

you think we'd get through a tough qualifier just after the world cup?
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=36492.msg965148#msg965148 date=1255889700]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36492.msg964919#msg964919 date=1255850517]
I'd take a top 4 finish now if it was offered.
[/quote]

you think we'd get through a tough qualifier just after the world cup?
[/quote]

It doesn't matter, at least current (and future) players would have the promise of CL football.

The way this season is panning out, I'd take that in a heartbeat.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36492.msg965186#msg965186 date=1255896205]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=36492.msg965148#msg965148 date=1255889700]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36492.msg964919#msg964919 date=1255850517]
I'd take a top 4 finish now if it was offered.
[/quote]

you think we'd get through a tough qualifier just after the world cup?
[/quote]

It doesn't matter, at least current (and future) players would have the promise of CL football.

The way this season is panning out, I'd take that in a heartbeat.
[/quote]

Me too. I honestly don't think we'll finish top, though.
 
We will win the league you bunch of disbelieving bellends.

We will get hammered by the Mancs, and after that, i don't see us losing another game.
aquilani4.jpg


*kneels and bows*
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=36492.msg965230#msg965230 date=1255902596]
When did we sign Frodo?
[/quote]

Ha ha. Thats exactly what I was thinking.

We need a white Wizard and a magical ring at this stage!
 
"Perplexed but not in despair" yet.

Keep the faith folks. Chin up your lads.
 
I don't think we'll win the league, but no fucking way would I 'take' a scenario where we don't win anything. It's only October, and we still have a big chance of winning three competitions, plus a small chance of winning the big one.

Right now, I'd 'take' finishing fifth and winning the CL. Or finishing fourth and winning the FA Cup. The point of it all is to win stuff, not just to 'maintain our status as a top 4 club' etc. Some of you are thinking more like businessmen than supporters.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36492.msg965331#msg965331 date=1255934271]
I don't think we'll win the league, but no fucking way would I 'take' a scenario where we don't win anything. It's only October, and we still have a big chance of winning three competitions, plus a small chance of winning the big one.

Right now, I'd 'take' finishing fifth and winning the CL. Or finishing fourth and winning the FA Cup. The point of it all is to win stuff, not just to 'maintain our status as a top 4 club' etc. Some of you are thinking more like businessmen than supporters.

[/quote]

Liverpool FC exists to win trophies.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36492.msg965331#msg965331 date=1255934271] Some of you are thinking more like businessmen than supporters.
[/quote]

I don't agree with that. In itself, no-one cares about our status as a "top 4 club"... what we do care about is that finishing in the top 4 plays it's part in enabling us to win things in the future.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36492.msg965355#msg965355 date=1255940231]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36492.msg965331#msg965331 date=1255934271] Some of you are thinking more like businessmen than supporters.
[/quote]

I don't agree with that. In itself, no-one cares about our status as a "top 4 club"... what we do care about is that finishing in the top 4 plays it's part in enabling us to win things in the future.
[/quote]

But when will that future ever come, if we give up after two months of each season? Gerrard only has another three or four seasons at the top level. I know it's only hypothetical, but I still think it's ridiculous to say, as a supporter, that you'd 'settle' for a top 4 finish when there are four trophies we could still win and most of the season's matches still to be played.

No doubt lots of people would have settled for a top 4 finish in January 2005, after Burnley had just knocked us out of the FA Cup. Maybe you should remember what happened four months after that?
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36492.msg965361#msg965361 date=1255941576]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36492.msg965355#msg965355 date=1255940231]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36492.msg965331#msg965331 date=1255934271] Some of you are thinking more like businessmen than supporters.
[/quote]

I don't agree with that. In itself, no-one cares about our status as a "top 4 club"... what we do care about is that finishing in the top 4 plays it's part in enabling us to win things in the future.
[/quote]

But when will that future ever come, if we give up after two months of each season? Gerrard only has another three or four seasons at the top level. I know it's only hypothetical, but I still think it's ridiculous to say, as a supporter, that you'd 'settle' for a top 4 finish when there are four trophies we could still win and most of the season's matches still to be played.
[/quote]

Firstly, who is talking about giving up after two months *every* single season? It's of course early doors and anything can happen, but playing the safe bet once when you feel the odds are stacked against you doesn't mean you're going to do it every single time.

Secondly, who is talking about the cups? As far as I'm aware, a top four finish only refers to the league and makes no assumptions about winnings cups or not winning cups.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36492.msg965361#msg965361 date=1255941576]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36492.msg965355#msg965355 date=1255940231]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36492.msg965331#msg965331 date=1255934271] Some of you are thinking more like businessmen than supporters.
[/quote]

I don't agree with that. In itself, no-one cares about our status as a "top 4 club"... what we do care about is that finishing in the top 4 plays it's part in enabling us to win things in the future.
[/quote]

But when will that future ever come, if we give up after two months of each season? Gerrard only has another three or four seasons at the top level. I know it's only hypothetical, but I still think it's ridiculous to say, as a supporter, that you'd 'settle' for a top 4 finish when there are four trophies we could still win and most of the season's matches still to be played.

No doubt lots of people would have settled for a top 4 finish in January 2005, after Burnley had just knocked us out of the FA Cup. Maybe you should remember what happened four months after that?

[/quote]

Agreed.
 
Last season we drew 13 and lost 2 games so we dropped 32 points.

We have dropped 12 points so far by losing 4 games. I dont see us dropping another 20 points this season and even if we did, we can still win the title.

We're still in the title race for sure.
 
[quote author=DHSC link=topic=36492.msg965376#msg965376 date=1255943041]
Last season we drew 13 and lost 2 games so we dropped 32 points.

We have dropped 12 points so far by losing 4 games. I dont see us dropping another 20 points this season and even if we did, we can still win the title.

We're still in the title race for sure.
[/quote]

I think prior to the Sunderland game we'd picked up more points than United had at the same stage last season.

Saturday was no worse than how we were playing when we went to Goodison in the Cup last season, not that it's an excuse, but we can only get better. It'll click, but we need to stick to the same formation and Rafa needs to sort centre mid and the fullbacks out. The central defenders are being horribly exposed.
 
I agree. We can't play any worse than how we did against Sunderland. I think our defence will improve with Agger back, and our midfield should get better with Aquilani.
 
I am fairly certain around this time last year Man U were behind us by seven points an we all know what happened then. Of course we are still well capable of winning the title.
But the likelihood of that happening decreases with every shit performance we put in.
Keep Gerrard and Torres fit and make Aqualini the super player that we all hope he is and we will be in the mix at the end.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36492.msg965355#msg965355 date=1255940231]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36492.msg965331#msg965331 date=1255934271] Some of you are thinking more like businessmen than supporters.
[/quote]

I don't agree with that. In itself, no-one cares about our status as a "top 4 club"... what we do care about is that finishing in the top 4 plays it's part in enabling us to win things in the future.
[/quote]

It's about an absolute minimum requirement, as a businessman, or a supporter.
Christ knows what would happen if we didn't. It could be the making of us as our value would drop and someone would buy us, or it could all collapse like a house of cards.
It's also not about comparing points from last year, it's not points we compete with it's other teams and this year there are at least two other teams that look like they can challenge for a top four spot.
It's also not about "we can't play any worse" . We may not be able to play any worse but many more at around the same level will cost us dearly.
I said at the start I worried about our ability to finish in the top four and that still stands. Everyone told me that City would not be a threat this year. They are, and they will spend in January too.
The squad looked way too thin on paper at the start, it looks even worse now. We have not backed up with a decent striker, which was at best foolish and at worst grossly negligent, and when we find ourselves in a position like yesterday there is no one we can call on to come off the bench and change a game.
There is now way too much pressure on Aqualani to deliver and quickly, and I suspect that will not happen (quickly).
Our one saving grace at the moment is that somehow we are no that far off the top, to counter that bit of optimism, nor are eight other teams, and six of those , including us, are serious contenders for a top four place.
We can't afford many more slip-ups to find ourselves in the Europa cup next year.

regards
 
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