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Non Existent Midfield

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A lack of competitive games during pre-season has cost us today.

Not Alonso not being there, not Stevie not playing in the centre, not any number of things you wanna whinge about.

We looked way off the mark with match fitness.

Rightly or wrongly we play stupid fixtures halfway round the world & they mean fuck all, the players dont get used to playing with each other in the way they should & dont gel properly.

Last season was the one exception to this in Rafa's term & we came so damn close because of it. I'm not surprised we reverted to our normal disjointed selves at the start of this season, just disappointed.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35266.msg925966#msg925966 date=1250454965]
[quote author=Paddy link=topic=35266.msg925962#msg925962 date=1250454800]
I'm not over-reacting about the midfield as a whole. It's just I don't want a repeat of today. It was the most disappointing part of our whole performance. I wish they had of tried a bit harder.
[/quote]No it wasnt.
[/quote]

Maybe not for you but it was for me. Mascherano and Lucas had something to prove today after Alonso left and Aquilani has been brought in as the replacemeny. Palacios and Huddlestone were miles better than the pair of them.
 
I'm with Oncy. Their back had every one of our front 4 in their pockets- until Yossi came on. The movement was useless, there was no understanding between them whatsoever. Lucas and Masher weren't the biggest problem today. CBs and Front four for me. Lucas was our best player (discounting Yossi's cameo).
 
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=35266.msg925959#msg925959 date=1250454474]
Agreed Onky, roll on Stoke!

I do hope we sell Voronin though, and add a quality attacker to the squad. Our bench today was horrible.

I want us to play 442 against Stoke, but i doubt Rafa will do that.
[/quote]

i was pretty happy to see kelly and spearing on the bench instead of some bullshit like plessis and degen. but then the camera panned over to voronin and well fuck. who the fuck does he think he is coming back to liverpool with his stupid haircut and now he's also sporting a fucking chav tan. fuck me
 
it was a terible opening fixture for us, in hindsight. we weren't ready for it. the mancs and chelsea would have got battered by spurs today.
 
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=35266.msg925981#msg925981 date=1250455683]
it was a terible opening fixture for us, in hindsight. we weren't ready for it. the mancs and chelsea would have got battered by spurs today.
[/quote]Yup.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35266.msg925984#msg925984 date=1250455834]
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=35266.msg925981#msg925981 date=1250455683]
it was a terible opening fixture for us, in hindsight. we weren't ready for it. the mancs and chelsea would have got battered by spurs today.
[/quote]Yup.
[/quote]

Yes, the mighty spurs would have turned over anyone today, they were in scintillating form.

Hang on, no they weren't, we just put out an imbalanced team, as we will have to frequently this season, when any one of a number of key players get injured.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=35266.msg926013#msg926013 date=1250457372]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35266.msg925984#msg925984 date=1250455834]
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=35266.msg925981#msg925981 date=1250455683]
it was a terible opening fixture for us, in hindsight. we weren't ready for it. the mancs and chelsea would have got battered by spurs today.
[/quote]Yup.
[/quote]

Yes, the mighty spurs would have turned over anyone today, they were in scintillating form.

Hang on, no they weren't, we just put out an imbalanced team, as we will have to frequently this season, when any one of a number of key players get injured.
[/quote]Jesus. Even the most sensible of posters are talking rubbish today.
 
The team we had out today was perfectly capable of beating spurs, we just lacked the urgency and sharpness that characterises us at our best.

We'll win on wednesday night.
 
spurs would have given anyone a good game today and in case anyone missed it they turned most good teams over at home last season as well. it was an awful opening fixture to be given especially after our preseason. it's over now, lets lick our wounds and bounce back as soon as humanly possible.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=35266.msg926013#msg926013 date=1250457372]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35266.msg925984#msg925984 date=1250455834]
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=35266.msg925981#msg925981 date=1250455683]
it was a terible opening fixture for us, in hindsight. we weren't ready for it. the mancs and chelsea would have got battered by spurs today.
[/quote]Yup.
[/quote]

Yes, the mighty spurs would have turned over anyone today, they were in scintillating form.

Hang on, no they weren't, we just put out an imbalanced team, as we will have to frequently this season, when any one of a number of key players get injured.
[/quote]

i say it because chelsea and the mancs looked as shite and disjointed as we did. fortunately for them, they were playing at home against very inferior opposition, and will be much better equipped to deal with spurs at a later date.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35266.msg926037#msg926037 date=1250458557]
spurs would have given anyone a good game today and in case anyone missed it they turned most good teams over at home last season as well. it was an awful opening fixture to be given especially after our preseason. it's over now, lets lick our wounds and bounce back as soon as humanly possible.
[/quote]Thats the one. They were very good today. They'll beat a bunch of top sides this year.
 
If Alonso had played instead of Lucas, the game would have been very different today. There's nothing for our forward line to feed off. Lucas keeps things tidy, with quick one touch (sideways) pasing but we need more than that. Some invention, a creative spark, which we only saw when Yossi came on. For me, the midfield is key. We don't have anyone until Aquilani is fit unless we give Spearing a runout. Gerrard was quiet. Maybe not 100% fit. Kuyt was his industrious non-deadly self and Babel, I just dont know. I like Babel running with the ball into the oppositions penalty box but its not often enough. The game seems to drift by him far too easily.
 
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=35266.msg926043#msg926043 date=1250458688]
i say it because chelsea and the mancs looked as shite and disjointed as we did. fortunately for them, they were playing at home against very inferior opposition, and will be much better equipped to deal with spurs at a later date.
[/quote]

Yea, I get it, but we knew we had a big game to start. There's no point being happy to not have a CL qualifier, if we aren't somewhat clicking when the season starts with significant opposition.

I'm not saying it's the end of the world, but Spurs were equally as disjointed through the first half hour of the game, and we let them play themselves into it, because we were even more so. I don't think its a fait accompli that Chelsea or the Mancs would have lost to them.
 
[quote author=D.Winchester link=topic=35266.msg926082#msg926082 date=1250460532]
If Alonso had played instead of Lucas, the game would have been very different today. There's nothing for our forward line to feed off. Lucas keeps things tidy, with quick one touch (sideways) pasing but we need more than that. Some invention, a creative spark, which we only saw when Yossi came on. For me, the midfield is key. We don't have anyone until Aquilani is fit unless we give Spearing a runout. Gerrard was quiet. Maybe not 100% fit. Kuyt was his industrious non-deadly self and Babel, I just dont know. I like Babel running with the ball into the oppositions penalty box but its not often enough. The game seems to drift by him far too easily.

[/quote]

forget alonso he's gone. it's irrelavent what would have happened 'if' alonso was in midfield we may as well starting saying what would have happened if barnes were on the wing.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35266.msg926017#msg926017 date=1250457554]
Jesus. Even the most sensible of posters are talking rubbish today.
[/quote]

I know it seems like an uncharacteristic overreaction Oncy, but for whatever reason I'm bitterly disappointed with this summer. Unless something significant happens before the end of the window, I just don't see why there is such confidence that we'll win the league. I wish I did.

Go on, hand me the kool aid.
 
[quote author= link=topic=35266.msg926088#msg926088 date=1250460864]
[quote author=D.Winchester link=topic=35266.msg926082#msg926082 date=1250460532]
If Alonso had played instead of Lucas, the game would have been very different today. There's nothing for our forward line to feed off. Lucas keeps things tidy, with quick one touch (sideways) pasing but we need more than that. Some invention, a creative spark, which we only saw when Yossi came on. For me, the midfield is key. We don't have anyone until Aquilani is fit unless we give Spearing a runout. Gerrard was quiet. Maybe not 100% fit. Kuyt was his industrious non-deadly self and Babel, I just dont know. I like Babel running with the ball into the oppositions penalty box but its not often enough. The game seems to drift by him far too easily.

[/quote]

forget alonso he's gone. it's irrelavent what would have happened 'if' alonso was in midfield we may as well starting saying what would have happened if barnes were on the wing.
[/quote]
The point I was making is that I fear we're not gonna do well with a midfield consisting of Lucas and Masch. I hope they prove me worng and play a blinder from now on. Factor in Kuyt with that and there's not much creativity at all.
 
[quote author=D.Winchester link=topic=35266.msg926090#msg926090 date=1250461286]
The point I was making is that I fear we're not gonna do well with a midfield consisting of Lucas and Masch. I hope they prove me worng and play a blinder from now on. Factor in Kuyt with that and there's not much invention at all.

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35266.msg926088#msg926088 date=1250460864]
[quote author=D.Winchester link=topic=35266.msg926082#msg926082 date=1250460532]
If Alonso had played instead of Lucas, the game would have been very different today. There's nothing for our forward line to feed off. Lucas keeps things tidy, with quick one touch (sideways) pasing but we need more than that. Some invention, a creative spark, which we only saw when Yossi came on. For me, the midfield is key. We don't have anyone until Aquilani is fit unless we give Spearing a runout. Gerrard was quiet. Maybe not 100% fit. Kuyt was his industrious non-deadly self and Babel, I just dont know. I like Babel running with the ball into the oppositions penalty box but its not often enough. The game seems to drift by him far too easily.

[/quote]

forget alonso he's gone. it's irrelavent what would have happened 'if' alonso was in midfield we may as well starting saying what would have happened if barnes were on the wing.
[/quote]
[/quote]

you don't know that, masher and alonso had to learn each other strengths the same goes for lucas and masher. wait ten games and then make your mind up.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=35266.msg926089#msg926089 date=1250461041]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35266.msg926017#msg926017 date=1250457554]
Jesus. Even the most sensible of posters are talking rubbish today.
[/quote]

I know it seems like an uncharacteristic overreaction Oncy, but for whatever reason I'm bitterly disappointed with this summer. Unless something significant happens before the end of the window, I just don't see why there is such confidence that we'll win the league. I wish I did.

Go on, hand me the kool aid.
[/quote]Cant. Need to keep it to pour over Rafa in may.
 
Too many players having an off day today, not just the midfield (other than Pepe). It was a tough opening fixture. I'm confident with everyone fit we can make a fist of the title.
 
Chelsea didn't look disjointed. They battered Hull for 90mins and it was only poor finishing that meant it was left so late. I didn't see the whole Utd game but for the first 20mins they were peppering Brum's goal.

Spurs are of course a different proposition to the relegation fodder, particularly at WHL, but when you struggle to string more than two passes together, you're going to find it hard going against anyone.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=35266.msg926013#msg926013 date=1250457372]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35266.msg925984#msg925984 date=1250455834]
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=35266.msg925981#msg925981 date=1250455683]
it was a terible opening fixture for us, in hindsight. we weren't ready for it. the mancs and chelsea would have got battered by spurs today.
[/quote]Yup.
[/quote]

Yes, the mighty spurs would have turned over anyone today, they were in scintillating form.

Hang on, no they weren't, we just put out an imbalanced team, as we will have to frequently this season, when any one of a number of key players get injured.
[/quote]

You obviously didn't watch the perofrmances by Chelsea and United this weekend then.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35266.msg926126#msg926126 date=1250468616]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=35266.msg926013#msg926013 date=1250457372]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35266.msg925984#msg925984 date=1250455834]
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=35266.msg925981#msg925981 date=1250455683]
it was a terible opening fixture for us, in hindsight. we weren't ready for it. the mancs and chelsea would have got battered by spurs today.
[/quote]Yup.
[/quote]

Yes, the mighty spurs would have turned over anyone today, they were in scintillating form.

Hang on, no they weren't, we just put out an imbalanced team, as we will have to frequently this season, when any one of a number of key players get injured.
[/quote]

You obviously didn't watch the perofrmances by Chelsea and United this weekend then.
[/quote]

Spurs were determined and fighting for every inch, they were impressive with real speed.

Chelsea & Manc were unbalanced too but they did have more shots at goal then us.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=35266.msg925974#msg925974 date=1250455366]
I'm with Oncy. Their back had every one of our front 4 in their pockets- until Yossi came on. The movement was useless, there was no understanding between them whatsoever. Lucas and Masher weren't the biggest problem today. CBs and Front four for me. Lucas was our best player (discounting Yossi's cameo).
[/quote]

I'm with you guys as well, I thought Mascher and Lucas were at least sufficient today. Lucas had some great tackles and Mascher was solid. I think the midfield is getting a lot of heat and Torres, Babel, and Kuyt are being left off the hook for "not being given good service." I counted several times that Torres received the ball at the top of the box with room to operate and fumbled the ball away clumsily.

Our finishers were horrible today any way you cut it.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35266.msg925950#msg925950 date=1250453699]
That midfield beat Manchester United 4-1 at old trafford a few months back.

This ONE game reaction is ludicrous.


[/quote]

That was also only one game...and I´d rather play Lucas/Mascherano against Man U than against Tottenham. Can´t see the Lucas/Mascherano pairing have the drive that we need in midfield. Who´s going to be our playmaker? I´m sorry but I just can´t see Lucas as the player who dictates a game (attacking-wise) and Aquilani will need time. It´s going to be a tough season and that was my opinion before the game against Spurs. We lack creativity, a striker and a decent back-up goalkeeper (if Reina gets injured God forbid!). And I´m also worried about Aggers injury record.

It´s my first day back at work so hopefully that´s why I am a bit gloomy.
 
Lucas didn't have a bad game. He just wasn't able to do what we needed, and that was to be that plant in the centre of the pitch, that was gonna impose himself and maintain possession of the ball, by always being available to receive the ball when nothing else was on.
 
[quote author=Ossi link=topic=35266.msg926338#msg926338 date=1250507662]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35266.msg925950#msg925950 date=1250453699]
That midfield beat Manchester United 4-1 at old trafford a few months back.

This ONE game reaction is ludicrous.


[/quote]

That was also only one game...and I´d rather play Lucas/Mascherano against Man U than against Tottenham. Can´t see the Lucas/Mascherano pairing have the drive that we need in midfield. Who´s going to be our playmaker? I´m sorry but I just can´t see Lucas as the player who dictates a game (attacking-wise) and Aquilani will need time. It´s going to be a tough season and that was my opinion before the game against Spurs. We lack creativity, a striker and a decent back-up goalkeeper (if Reina gets injured God forbid!). And I´m also worried about Aggers injury record.

It´s my first day back at work so hopefully that´s why I am a bit gloomy.
[/quote]

Cavalieri is a decent enough backup keeper from what I've seen.
 
[quote author=Anita link=topic=35266.msg926339#msg926339 date=1250507779]
Lucas didn't have a bad game. He just wasn't able to do what we needed, and that was to be that plant in the centre of the pitch, that was gonna impose himself and maintain possession of the ball, by always being available to receive the ball when nothing else was on.
[/quote]

Exactly the way I saw it, he didn't do anything overly *wrong"..but I saw Mascherano, Gerrard, Benayoun and everyone else who played centrally on the ball, whereas I can hardly remember Lucas on it. He just wasn't there and available to receive the ball when his team-mates were being closed down, and also settled for a quick sideways pass to a team-mate each time he had it.

He needs to do way more in games where the midfield battle really is a *battle*
 
[quote author=Anita link=topic=35266.msg926339#msg926339 date=1250507779]
Lucas didn't have a bad game. He just wasn't able to do what we needed, and that was to be that plant in the centre of the pitch, that was gonna impose himself and maintain possession of the ball, by always being available to receive the ball when nothing else was on.
[/quote]

Exactly that
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35266.msg926353#msg926353 date=1250509173]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=35266.msg926339#msg926339 date=1250507779]
Lucas didn't have a bad game. He just wasn't able to do what we needed, and that was to be that plant in the centre of the pitch, that was gonna impose himself and maintain possession of the ball, by always being available to receive the ball when nothing else was on.
[/quote]

Exactly that
[/quote]

Exactly. He wasn´t able to do what we needed and he won´t be in the future I´m afraid.
 
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