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NFL Regular & Post Season Thread

I don't like Favre, but I don't think he really was the chief culprit in losing the game.

He didn't get the coverage he needed, there were a host of failures elsewhere on the field, especially with fumbles, and he shouldn't even have needed to throw on that down.

The viking's total lack of ball security isn't completely Favre's fault.
 
Um it was Favre's fault. toooo long have I heard the it's not his fault excuse.

1998 against Atlanta.
2007 against the Giants
2008 for the Jets repeatedly
2009 against the Saints.

thats four games in which I remember Favre throwing picks to end his teams season. And as for last night ahh, the simple 5 yard run out of bounds would have won the game for his team (or throwing it out of bounds or anything sensible). If you know anything about the QB position you know you don't throw late over the middle of the field. On a boot leg non the less....its really the biggest rookie mistake.

Brett Favre's career in conclusion: Great great Arm, Guts and toughness to a fault (he hurt his teams a number of times keeping his streak alive) and a meh QB. Didn't bother learning the position for years and when he finally played it properly he had his best year of his career. Until it all fell apart when he reverted to Brett Favre 101.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=35654.msg1042736#msg1042736 date=1264454884]
I don't like Favre, but I don't think he really was the chief culprit in losing the game.

He didn't get the coverage he needed, there were a host of failures elsewhere on the field, especially with fumbles, and he shouldn't even have needed to throw on that down.

The viking's total lack of ball security isn't completely Favre's fault.
[/quote]

Sorry, but he was, and here's why...

They brought him in to win the Super Bowl. They got him, so that when they had 3:41 left in the Conference Final and they were driving to win the game, he would get it done.

Yesterday, regardless of what went before (and yes, they repeatedly shot themselves in the foot), he had one play, to get about 7 yards, to set up the game-winning kick. As the play unfolded, he had three options: 1. Run it himself, and get approx 8 - 10 yards - Would have put them in FG range, 2. Take the easy 7 - 8 yard pass to the wide open WR to his right - Would have put them in FG range, or 3. Try something incredibly risky (throw back across the field AND his own body, into coverage, which EVERYBODY knows you NEVER do), to try and pick up a few extra yards.

Which did ol' gunslinger choose? The idotic option. Why? 'Cos that's what he does when it matters...

I also loved how his foot was borderline crushed as he came off the field, having thrown his first stupid interception, only for him to recover miraculously in time for the next series.
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=35654.msg1042692#msg1042692 date=1264450139]
ha ha ... ok D, who do you hate more Favre or the Cowboys? 🙂

Interesting article comparing the '91 Cowboys vs the '09 Cowboys (I mentioned this earlier in the thread after the Vikings humbled the team). It's an interesting read for anyone who grew up on Emmit, Troy and Irvin. What amazed me most is that Miles Austin is the same size as Irvin - players looked much bigger back then, or I was much smaller!

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/news/story?id=4851270
[/quote]

I've told you a million times, Avy... I don't hate the Cowboys. You just think I do 'cos I don't worship them! 🙂 If you're being fair to me, I think you'll acknowledge that I just call it like I see it when it comes to them, and I also give credit where it's due.

I'd heard that comparison being bandies around he recently... Certainly, they COULD become a top, top team in the next few seasons - They've got a good, mostly young team, and the right addition / subtraction here and there, and they absolutely could challange for the title.
 
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=35654.msg1042761#msg1042761 date=1264457382]
Um it was Favre's fault. toooo long have I heard the it's not his fault excuse.

1998 against Atlanta.
2007 against the Giants
2008 for the Jets repeatedly
2009 against the Saints.

Don't forget 2003 Vs Philadelphia in the playoffs, too. Another idiotic pick that led to the game winning field goal.

thats four games in which I remember Favre throwing picks to end his teams season. And as for last night ahh, the simple 5 yard run out of bounds would have won the game for his team (or throwing it out of bounds or anything sensible). If you know anything about the QB position you know you don't throw late over the middle of the field. On a boot leg non the less....its really the biggest rookie mistake.

It's not so much that he went over the middle - That's not the mistake by itself... It's the way he was running the opposite direction and threw it across his body & into coverage over the middle. Stupid.

Brett Favre's career in conclusion: Great great Arm, Guts and toughness to a fault (he hurt his teams a number of times keeping his streak alive) and a meh QB. Didn't bother learning the position for years and when he finally played it properly he had his best year of his career. Until it all fell apart when he reverted to Brett Favre 101.
[/quote]

As you can tell, I don't like the guy, but he most certainly is NOT "a meh QB". He's been brilliant for most of his career. A sure fire and deserved HOFer.
 
I'm talking about the nuances of playing the QB position. The picking out the best option, going through the reads, not going over the middle late (and yes even without going across his body its a mistake because he went over the middle late), late game drives, being safer with the football as the game gets bigger and tougher, taking the easy option when its there, knowing when to audible (without doing the same predictable run to throw audible everytime), understanding and trusting your greatest weapons and making them thrive (like he has so clearly failed with AP, any audibles to the run ever?). Its just not enough for him to be a good QB. He has a great ARM and its gotten him through the years.

If you compare what Peyton does and Favre does as a QB. You have one guy who studies consistently, constantly lifts his team, and makes the right decisions most of the time; which is the whole basis of the position. Favre isn't anywhere close despite having a stronger arm (even now). Accuracy, time management, great decision making, and winning those are the pillars of the QB position. Favre justs a renegade thats done amazingly well on his physical talents and charisma.

He can officially be labeled a compiler now.
 
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=35654.msg1042771#msg1042771 date=1264458741]
I'm talking about the nuances of playing the QB position. The picking out the best option, going through the reads, not going over the middle late (and yes even without going across his body its a mistake because he went over the middle late), late game drives, being safer with the football as the game gets bigger and tougher, taking the easy option when its there, knowing when to audible (without doing the same predictable run to throw audible everytime), understanding and trusting your greatest weapons and making them thrive (like he has so clearly failed with AP, any audibles to the run ever?). Its just not enough for him to be a good QB. He has a great ARM and its gotten him through the years.

If you compare what Peyton does and Favre does as a QB. You have one guy who studies consistently, constantly lifts his team, and makes the right decisions most of the time; which is the whole basis of the position. Favre isn't anywhere close despite having a stronger arm (even now). Accuracy, time management, great decision making, and winning those are the pillars of the QB position. Favre justs a renegade thats done amazingly well on his physical talents and charisma.

He can officially be labeled a compiler now.
[/quote]

Of course Favre is a very different QB, but if you put Manning behind an O line as porous as the vikings was in this last game, and put him on his arse again and again and again, he won't have time to make his reads, and he'll cough up interceptions, sometimes even multiple interceptions, as he has in several games. The difference is when Favre does it, because he is immensely unlikable, it's always completely his fault, and seen as his intrinsic error. He was very unrattled, right till the end. It's lazy to attribute the last error as the prime one, and that's what we're seeing here.
 
1st Quarter 256 91.4 1206 1924 62.7 13884 N/A 7.2 98 46
2nd Quarter 255 85.8 1652 2716 60.8 18970 N/A 7.0 147 92
3rd Quarter 250 92.4 1311 2058 63.7 15217 N/A 7.4 111 57
4th Quarter 235 81.5 1275 2085 61.2 14399 N/A 6.9 102 83

games/qb rating/attempts/completions/completion %/yards//yards per attempt/tds/ints

he's considerably worse in the 4th quarter than in the other quarters. He also throws way more picks. I know he average, but he definately isnt a great QB, hes an okay QB with a great Arm, a compilers career and he has been in the spotlight for a hell of a long time in a position known not for its longevity. All that makes him HOF, its definately not his ability to win, his clutch accomplishments or his improvement of his team and players. He's an HOF as much because of "the love of the game" repeated every 5 minutes that he's playing as for what he's done on the field. He's the most.
 
@farky

Um, Favre is the most loved guy in America and nothing is his fault.

And Peyton had a lot of pressure against the Jets without falling apart and making incorrect decisions. He stuck with his game and won with such greats as Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie.

Every great Qb has a good O-line.

The Vikings were the most talented team and the truth is he had an adverse effect on that Offense, we didn't hear much more about the Brett Favre Brad Childress mix up again, because America loves Favre, but that run vs. pass fight went on the whole season. And when Favre got his way Vikings got dumped. Then again Childress isn't very wiley as he has never used Chester Taylor properly since AP's arrival.
 
The comments about Favre in this thread are way over the top. Vikings don't get near the Conference Finals without him. He, amazingly considering he was the heart-and-soul of the Packers for umpteen years, became absolutely integral to that team almost overnight.

The interception was a stupid, awful play and one I'm sure he'll regret as long as he lives. However, he was hit on almost 1/3 of his dropbacks, had absolutely no pass protection at all. He didn't have the greatest game by his standards but to place the blame at his feet is ridiculous. Moreover, the Saints offensive line did a great job against the Vikings front 7 and gave Brees good protection throughout the game.

Adrian Peterson on the other hand deserves shooting. If he had washed the lube off his hands from jerking off before the game, Vikings walk off the field easy winners. Absolutely brilliant skill set and an electrifying player but there is absolutely no excuse for his consistent and continual turnovers. And the fumble that was awarded to Favre was Peterson's fault, too.
 
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=35654.msg1042813#msg1042813 date=1264469986]
The comments about Favre in this thread are way over the top. Vikings don't get near the Conference Finals without him. He, amazingly considering he was the heart-and-soul of the Packers for umpteen years, became absolutely integral to that team almost overnight.

No they're not. He needs to take a large portion of the blame for the result. Yes, he's had a fantastic year and was undoubtedly the reason that the Vikings got that far... If he deserves praise for the latter (which he most certainly does), he warrants critisism for the former.

The interception was a stupid, awful play and one I'm sure he'll regret as long as he lives. However, he was hit on almost 1/3 of his dropbacks, had absolutely no pass protection at all. He didn't have the greatest game by his standards but to place the blame at his feet is ridiculous. Moreover, the Saints offensive line did a great job against the Vikings front 7 and gave Brees good protection throughout the game.

No it's not. He was getting battered, yes. But on the play that ultimately condemned the Vikings to another loss in the big game, he wasn't... He just choose poorly and it cost his team.

Adrian Peterson on the other hand deserves shooting. If he had washed the lube off his hands from jerking off before the game, Vikings walk off the field easy winners. Absolutely brilliant skill set and an electrifying player but there is absolutely no excuse for his consistent and continual turnovers. And the fumble that was awarded to Favre was Peterson's fault, too.

So, Goldenballs has 2 interceptions, but should be blameless, while A.D. lost two fumbles and deserves shooting..? How does that work?
[/quote]

Farve is a legend, who has been nostly brilliant throughout his career. I've already said that... Unfortunately, the undelined portion of your thread above, with which you damn A.D. could also apply, word for word to BF's big game performances since the Super Bowl, and there's been lots of 'em...
 
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=35654.msg1042771#msg1042771 date=1264458741]
I'm talking about the nuances of playing the QB position. The picking out the best option, going through the reads, not going over the middle late (and yes even without going across his body its a mistake because he went over the middle late), late game drives, being safer with the football as the game gets bigger and tougher, taking the easy option when its there, knowing when to audible (without doing the same predictable run to throw audible everytime), understanding and trusting your greatest weapons and making them thrive (like he has so clearly failed with AP, any audibles to the run ever?). Its just not enough for him to be a good QB. He has a great ARM and its gotten him through the years.

If you compare what Peyton does and Favre does as a QB. You have one guy who studies consistently, constantly lifts his team, and makes the right decisions most of the time; which is the whole basis of the position. Favre isn't anywhere close despite having a stronger arm (even now). Accuracy, time management, great decision making, and winning those are the pillars of the QB position. Favre justs a renegade thats done amazingly well on his physical talents and charisma.

He can officially be labeled a compiler now.
[/quote]

You're WAAAAAAAY off here, mate. You (seem to) hate him too much to be objective on this...

Manning may go down as the greatest QB of all time by the time he quits, and there's nobody who compares particularly favourably to him in the modern game, so Farve's not alone there.

Also, if you don't think that Farve can (and has) lift(ed) his team, you just haven't been watching - He's unquestionably been the best player on that team this season, and there are many people here who feel that the NFL's most talented team lost yesterday... Everywhere he's been, he's been the heart and soul of the team.

Though I (obviously) feel he is overrated by many, I think you're equally as guilty of underrating him - A renegade with a strong arm describes the likes of Ryan Leaf or JaMarcus Russell. He's so much more than that.

Oh, and I'm sorry, but simply going over the middle is NOT a mistake in and of itself. It just isn't. It all depends on the circumstances. Many, many enormous games have been won late by going over the middle...
 
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=35654.msg1042820#msg1042820 date=1264472780]
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=35654.msg1042813#msg1042813 date=1264469986]
The comments about Favre in this thread are way over the top. Vikings don't get near the Conference Finals without him. He, amazingly considering he was the heart-and-soul of the Packers for umpteen years, became absolutely integral to that team almost overnight.

No they're not. He needs to take a large portion of the blame for the result. Yes, he's had a fantastic year and was undoubtedly the reason that the Vikings got that far... If he deserves praise for the latter (which he most certainly does), he warrants critisism for the former.

The interception was a stupid, awful play and one I'm sure he'll regret as long as he lives. However, he was hit on almost 1/3 of his dropbacks, had absolutely no pass protection at all. He didn't have the greatest game by his standards but to place the blame at his feet is ridiculous. Moreover, the Saints offensive line did a great job against the Vikings front 7 and gave Brees good protection throughout the game.

No it's not. He was getting battered, yes. But on the play that ultimately condemned the Vikings to another loss in the big game, he wasn't... He just choose poorly and it cost his team.

Adrian Peterson on the other hand deserves shooting. If he had washed the lube off his hands from jerking off before the game, Vikings walk off the field easy winners. Absolutely brilliant skill set and an electrifying player but there is absolutely no excuse for his consistent and continual turnovers. And the fumble that was awarded to Favre was Peterson's fault, too.

So, Goldenballs has 2 interceptions, but should be blameless, while A.D. lost two fumbles and deserves shooting..? How does that work?
[/quote]

Farve is a legend, who has been nostly brilliant throughout his career. I've already said that... Unfortunately, the undelined portion of your thread above, with which you damn A.D. could also apply, word for word to BF's big game performances since the Super Bowl, and there's been lots of 'em...
[/quote]

I don't believe Favre should be blameless for the loss. Certainly not, and apologies if I came across that way. However, I felt some of the comments in this thread were well over the top. I also agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of Favre's options on that interception play and think he's foolish for not having run for five yards. I do think the battering he took throughout the game affected his decisionmaking and the injured ankle is likely why he opted not to run. Not an excuse, but I do think it's a contributing reason. From the second that ball left his hand I knew it was a pick. It was a wobbly throw and an awful decision.

That being said, I was far more frustrated with the O-line and Peterson who, while an exciting player, has (if I'm not mistaken) fumbled more than any other NFL running back in the time since he entered the league. And despite suggesting Peterson needs shooting, I don't actually believe that. Just needed to vent. This was a team with amazing potential and who were just one play away from making it to the big game. I think next year will see them struggle (at least relative to this year) regardless of whether Favre returns or not.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=35654.msg1042581#msg1042581 date=1264427128]
Thank you sir. My boys will do you proud. Them Saints - [glow=red,2,300]HOLY COW, WE'RE THE NFC CHAMPS[/glow] ;D - are gonna go marchin' in. 8)
[/quote]
Congratulations Judge on seeing your boys make the Superbowl. We (whisper it quietly) like the Colts in my house, but we are all hoping for a Saints win in 2 weeks time.
 
No worries. I don't get seriously pissy with most internet stuff. Get pissy with running backs who can't hold onto the ball though.... 😉

Seriously though, best of luck to the Saints and I hope for a good game in two weeks.
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=35654.msg1042847#msg1042847 date=1264485058]
D - I was joking

A - Favre doesn't deserve that kind of bollocking. You make it seem like he's Trent Dilfer.
[/quote]

I know, mate.

So what's next? Mavericks look ok, but the Stars are falling apart... Just like the Celtics and Bruins, actually.
 
See Tebow pulled his pants down taking snaps under center at SB practice.

Still, having his own advert during Superbowl should make up for that...
 
Stars screwed up big time by letting go of Tippet I think ... I never liked Crawford, who I feel underachieved big time whereever he's coached (yup even with the Avs, where he should have won more than one Cup with that team). Only hope for the season is that we a) scrape the 8th seed and b) don't trade Modano.

Mavericks are going to be very dangeorus in the playoffs. I think they match up well with the Lakers, Spurs and Nuggets. Whether they can make a deep run or not depends mostly again on Dirk and Jet, but I think with Marion and Howard and Gooden (who I think was an excellent pick up) will be the difference between this team and past Mavs teams ...
 
I'll admit to being wrong in the Favre argument but everyone overrates him imo, so I don't mind having to speak harshly. And I kinda hate how much love he gets (around me)

Colts are going to dominate this game aren't they. At least thats my opinion of a truly undefeatedable team (every time they've tried at least).
 
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=35654.msg1043772#msg1043772 date=1264552439]
I'll admit to being wrong in the Favre argument but everyone overrates him imo, so I don't mind having to speak harshly. And I kinda hate how much love he gets (around me)

Colts are going to dominate this game aren't they. At least thats my opinion of a truly undefeatedable team (every time they've tried at least).
[/quote]

I dunno, mate. I think that many are overlooking the Saints as they perpare to annoit Peyton as the second coming...

He's even less mobile than Farve, so if the Saints can get to him like they got to Farve, they's got a great chance of winning. I fancy them to surprise people.
 
Think Peyton will adjust better but I am expecting a great game Saint can win. Just Peyton is playing amazingly well now.

I love Perry Cox
 
Super Bowls are frequently disappointing from an entertainment POV unless you're a fan of one of the two teams. Last couple years have been great so let's hope the trend continues.
 
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=35654.msg1043809#msg1043809 date=1264567229]
Think Peyton will adjust better but I am expecting a great game Saint can win. Just Peyton is playing amazingly well now.

I love Perry Cox
[/quote]

Saints will have a Pro-Bowl QB on the field too, you know. Damn straight we can win this thing.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=35654.msg1043902#msg1043902 date=1264588448]
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=35654.msg1043809#msg1043809 date=1264567229]
Think Peyton will adjust better but I am expecting a great game Saint can win. Just Peyton is playing amazingly well now.

I love Perry Cox
[/quote]

Saints will have a Pro-Bowl QB on the field too, you know. Damn straight we can win this thing.
[/quote]

There is a difference between a Pro Bowl QB and a "Been there, done that 1st ballot HOFer and one of the greatest the game has ever seen" QB. That being said, Brees can easily lead the Saints to a huge blow out win - only time will tell.
 
I'm actually expecting a great game.

The last few Super Bowls have been fantastic, there is lot more parity in the league recently, and come on its the Super Bowl, any team is gonna be up for that.

Saints to win.
 
So LTW, why doesn't Jerry just buy Gillette's half of Liverpool and invest a stadium for his good friend Tom Hicks???
 
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=35654.msg1044491#msg1044491 date=1264652693]
So LTW, why doesn't Jerry just buy Gillette's half of Liverpool and invest a stadium for his good friend Tom Hicks???
[/quote]

If only Jerry had bought Liverpool and not G&H, we'd be set. The man just knows how to take care of a franchise. I know people hate him, but what he's done in 20 years of ownership is fantastic.
 
[quote author=MC Golgotha link=topic=35654.msg1044574#msg1044574 date=1264677084]

First thing he'd do is sack Kenny.
[/quote]

Only if Kenny hadn't won anything in approx. 15 years...
 
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