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I can think of several who would.
Ones revered by the Liverpool fans.
Ones revered by the Liverpool fans.
Michael Owen's Comments
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They'd never have got themselves into such a situation in the first place though.
The guy has lost the supposed peak years of his career to injury at Newcastle (not even when they were actually half decent), his beloved England career is over and he's had to sell his soul to the devil to avoid the ignominy of joining a side like Stoke - and he got a shit deal out of that one too.
I think it's safe to say that Michael Owen has paid for whatever crimes he committed against Liverpool and then some. Let it be.
I think it's safe to say that Michael Owen has paid for whatever crimes he committed against Liverpool and then some. Let it be.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=41761.msg1170569#msg1170569 date=1283809643]
The guy has lost the supposed peak years of his career to injury at Newcastle (not even when they were actually half decent), his beloved England career is over and he's had to sell his soul to the devil to avoid the ignominy of joining a side like Stoke - and he got a shit deal out of that one too.
I think it's safe to say that Michael Owen has paid for whatever crimes he committed against Liverpool and then some. Let it be.
[/quote]
It's not over yet
The guy has lost the supposed peak years of his career to injury at Newcastle (not even when they were actually half decent), his beloved England career is over and he's had to sell his soul to the devil to avoid the ignominy of joining a side like Stoke - and he got a shit deal out of that one too.
I think it's safe to say that Michael Owen has paid for whatever crimes he committed against Liverpool and then some. Let it be.
[/quote]
It's not over yet
When Kevin Keegan announced halfway through the season that he would be leaving for Hamburg in the summer, he went immediately from hero to zero.
I think that was why Owen was not honest with the fans in his last season. He kept stating that he fully intended to sign an extension to his contract, and made up silly excuses as to why he hadn't. Refugee has already mentioned one of them, that his agent was on holiday.
Owen obviously didn't want the sudden unpopularity that an honest announcement of his plans would have brought down on his head.
Although I understand his thinking, I still can't quite find it in myself to forgive him for being less than honest with us.
I think that was why Owen was not honest with the fans in his last season. He kept stating that he fully intended to sign an extension to his contract, and made up silly excuses as to why he hadn't. Refugee has already mentioned one of them, that his agent was on holiday.
Owen obviously didn't want the sudden unpopularity that an honest announcement of his plans would have brought down on his head.
Although I understand his thinking, I still can't quite find it in myself to forgive him for being less than honest with us.
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=41761.msg1170467#msg1170467 date=1283799800]
Why?
He was running his contract down, how many times over the previous year did he say he would sort his contract out and never did?
He fucked us not once by leaving us for buttons.
Not even Twice by going to Newcastle when he could have 'done a Macher' and held out for Liverpool.
But THREE times by signing for the team we fucking hate the most in all the World.
But clap away by all means.
He's just (only just) below Doiuff in my list followed by Intanjie and now Macherano, and Macherano's only on there because he refused to play v City and all the fucking whinging he's done about us since!
[/quote]
How absurd. All you've concentrated on are the aspects leading to his departure. Have you forgotten the many many times Micheal Owen has scored for Liverpool, won games for Liverpool and more importantly won trophies for Liverpool. Vlad had it spot on the facts and emotions to his rise as a Liverpool hero to his downfall to a Liverpool zero, hence the claps and applause for a well written post.
I would bet that you are one of those people that burnt the Gerrard shirt when you heard he was leaving for Chelsea.
Why?
He was running his contract down, how many times over the previous year did he say he would sort his contract out and never did?
He fucked us not once by leaving us for buttons.
Not even Twice by going to Newcastle when he could have 'done a Macher' and held out for Liverpool.
But THREE times by signing for the team we fucking hate the most in all the World.
But clap away by all means.
He's just (only just) below Doiuff in my list followed by Intanjie and now Macherano, and Macherano's only on there because he refused to play v City and all the fucking whinging he's done about us since!
[/quote]
How absurd. All you've concentrated on are the aspects leading to his departure. Have you forgotten the many many times Micheal Owen has scored for Liverpool, won games for Liverpool and more importantly won trophies for Liverpool. Vlad had it spot on the facts and emotions to his rise as a Liverpool hero to his downfall to a Liverpool zero, hence the claps and applause for a well written post.
I would bet that you are one of those people that burnt the Gerrard shirt when you heard he was leaving for Chelsea.
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=41761.msg1170467#msg1170467 date=1283799800]
Why?
He was running his contract down, how many times over the previous year did he say he would sort his contract out and never did?
He fucked us not once by leaving us for buttons.
Not even Twice by going to Newcastle when he could have 'done a Macher' and held out for Liverpool.
But THREE times by signing for the team we fucking hate the most in all the World.
But clap away by all means.
He's just (only just) below Doiuff in my list followed by Intanjie and now Macherano, and Macherano's only on there because he refused to play v City and all the fucking whinging he's done about us since!
[/quote]
That , if I might say so Asbo, is Naive in the extreme ,you must live in a very simple, but lovely, world.
We all agree on the second point, but if you can't see the Hobson's Choice of either being consigned to the scrap heap or accepting an unexpected life ring being thrown to you by (sadly) the most successful club of the last two decades and not grabbing it with both hands, the you must also be a bit daft.
The main point I disagree with is that he always intended to go, and ran his contract down. I honest;y don't believe he did so with any great intentions, other than seeing what his options were going to be, given Ged was on a downward spiral and had been for some months (and it's very rare I disagree with my bro' 🙂 ) I firmly believe it was Rafa who actually made the decision for him, but history will have to be my judge on that.
As has been said by almost everyone else , regardless of their stance, for what he did for Liverpool Football Club, he deserves a little more respect than some people , you included , give him.
regards
Why?
He was running his contract down, how many times over the previous year did he say he would sort his contract out and never did?
He fucked us not once by leaving us for buttons.
Not even Twice by going to Newcastle when he could have 'done a Macher' and held out for Liverpool.
But THREE times by signing for the team we fucking hate the most in all the World.
But clap away by all means.
He's just (only just) below Doiuff in my list followed by Intanjie and now Macherano, and Macherano's only on there because he refused to play v City and all the fucking whinging he's done about us since!
[/quote]
That , if I might say so Asbo, is Naive in the extreme ,you must live in a very simple, but lovely, world.
We all agree on the second point, but if you can't see the Hobson's Choice of either being consigned to the scrap heap or accepting an unexpected life ring being thrown to you by (sadly) the most successful club of the last two decades and not grabbing it with both hands, the you must also be a bit daft.
The main point I disagree with is that he always intended to go, and ran his contract down. I honest;y don't believe he did so with any great intentions, other than seeing what his options were going to be, given Ged was on a downward spiral and had been for some months (and it's very rare I disagree with my bro' 🙂 ) I firmly believe it was Rafa who actually made the decision for him, but history will have to be my judge on that.
As has been said by almost everyone else , regardless of their stance, for what he did for Liverpool Football Club, he deserves a little more respect than some people , you included , give him.
regards
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=41761.msg1170467#msg1170467 date=1283799800]
Not even Twice by going to Newcastle when he could have 'done a Macher' and held out for Liverpool.
He's just (only just) below Doiuff in my list followed by Intanjie and now Macherano, and Macherano's.
[/quote]
Interesting.... you hate two people for doing exactly the opposite things. Its easy to be a super-fan and say everyone must put Liverpool before everything else in the world. So its morally wrong (according to you) if a player does not do something that benefits Liverpool?
Comparing Masher and Owen to Diouf isa bit very idiotic.
We have a player who was the definition of a "dickhead" and had no respect for Liverpool or Liverpool fans. He spat on the fans, the players and referees. He picked up fights in the dressing room. On the field he was an expensive failure. He was a disappointment in every aspect when it came to football, and he didn't even have the dignity to behave well off the field when things were not going well for him professionally.
You are comparing him to Owen and Mascherano who played with heart and delivered results for Liverpool for several years. They were very close to being the best in their profession when they played for us. The guys respected Liverpool fans and have always spoken well about us in spite of moving away. But these two are still comparable to Diouf - Why? What is their crime? They left Liverpool?
Your magnanimity and broad mindedness shocks me! Just move on...
Not even Twice by going to Newcastle when he could have 'done a Macher' and held out for Liverpool.
He's just (only just) below Doiuff in my list followed by Intanjie and now Macherano, and Macherano's.
[/quote]
Interesting.... you hate two people for doing exactly the opposite things. Its easy to be a super-fan and say everyone must put Liverpool before everything else in the world. So its morally wrong (according to you) if a player does not do something that benefits Liverpool?
Comparing Masher and Owen to Diouf is
We have a player who was the definition of a "dickhead" and had no respect for Liverpool or Liverpool fans. He spat on the fans, the players and referees. He picked up fights in the dressing room. On the field he was an expensive failure. He was a disappointment in every aspect when it came to football, and he didn't even have the dignity to behave well off the field when things were not going well for him professionally.
You are comparing him to Owen and Mascherano who played with heart and delivered results for Liverpool for several years. They were very close to being the best in their profession when they played for us. The guys respected Liverpool fans and have always spoken well about us in spite of moving away. But these two are still comparable to Diouf - Why? What is their crime? They left Liverpool?
Your magnanimity and broad mindedness shocks me! Just move on...
Comparing Mascherano to Diouf is ludicrous, you're 100% right about that.
Mascherano for a time gave this club 100%, but he took an opportunity to deprive this club for his personal benefit. You've argued that he had the right to do so, that his 'favour' in staying at this club on massive wages for an extra year after losing Alonso made it acceptable to shaft us a year later. And you have every right to that opinion, even if I respectfully don't share it.
But I think your comparing Mascherano to Owen is nearly as bad as Asbo's likening Owen's to Diouf.The service rendered by Owen to this club is worth more than the service of Mascher and Diouf put together multiplied by 10.That's why the boos saddened me; and I doubt I'll be saddened by any boos received by Mascherano.Though I doubt he'll be worried by that, as long as our best players keep leaving there's little chance of him returning to Anfield with Barca.
Mascherano for a time gave this club 100%, but he took an opportunity to deprive this club for his personal benefit. You've argued that he had the right to do so, that his 'favour' in staying at this club on massive wages for an extra year after losing Alonso made it acceptable to shaft us a year later. And you have every right to that opinion, even if I respectfully don't share it.
But I think your comparing Mascherano to Owen is nearly as bad as Asbo's likening Owen's to Diouf.The service rendered by Owen to this club is worth more than the service of Mascher and Diouf put together multiplied by 10.That's why the boos saddened me; and I doubt I'll be saddened by any boos received by Mascherano.Though I doubt he'll be worried by that, as long as our best players keep leaving there's little chance of him returning to Anfield with Barca.
Always liked Owen. He did plenty for us as many have said, we had the best out of him though; he's been a crock ever since.
Still can't get over why he went to the Toon, what possessed him?
Still can't get over why he went to the Toon, what possessed him?
I just thought people might be getting bored with Lady GaGa, so I changed my avatar to Dr. Alice Roberts who is on many BBC TV documentaries at the moment ranging from archaeology to medicine. She has university degrees coming out of her ears but what appeals to me is that she has the air of a nice friendly hippie girl.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Roberts
One of the documentary series she did was called "The Incredible Human Journey" and showed how homo sapiens had emerged from Africa and spread around the world, using genetic and archaeological evidence of the spread of what was originally only a small group of our ancestors.
An interesting episode was about the origin of the Chinese people. Chinese academics had originally contested that the Chinese people were descended from that first small group who left Africa, and evolved completely separately. This is still the official government position on the subject. However, using the latest advanced genetic techniques, some Chinese scientists are concluding that the Chinese are descended from the same people from Africa as everybody else.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Roberts
One of the documentary series she did was called "The Incredible Human Journey" and showed how homo sapiens had emerged from Africa and spread around the world, using genetic and archaeological evidence of the spread of what was originally only a small group of our ancestors.
An interesting episode was about the origin of the Chinese people. Chinese academics had originally contested that the Chinese people were descended from that first small group who left Africa, and evolved completely separately. This is still the official government position on the subject. However, using the latest advanced genetic techniques, some Chinese scientists are concluding that the Chinese are descended from the same people from Africa as everybody else.
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=41761.msg1170668#msg1170668 date=1283854297]
Whether we left Africa earlier or later, it does not really matter. All of us are from the same stock.
[/quote]
Yes, we are all descended from a creature that looked something like Wayne Rooney. 😉
Whether we left Africa earlier or later, it does not really matter. All of us are from the same stock.
[/quote]
Yes, we are all descended from a creature that looked something like Wayne Rooney. 😉
[quote author=Portly link=topic=41761.msg1170670#msg1170670 date=1283854448]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=41761.msg1170668#msg1170668 date=1283854297]
Whether we left Africa earlier or later, it does not really matter. All of us are from the same stock.
[/quote]
Yes, we are all descended from a creature that looked something like Wayne Rooney. 😉
[/quote]
Scarier still that we all might have looked like Drogba.... with the morals of Rooney!
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=41761.msg1170668#msg1170668 date=1283854297]
Whether we left Africa earlier or later, it does not really matter. All of us are from the same stock.
[/quote]
Yes, we are all descended from a creature that looked something like Wayne Rooney. 😉
[/quote]
Scarier still that we all might have looked like Drogba.... with the morals of Rooney!
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=41761.msg1170467#msg1170467 date=1283799800]
Why?
He was running his contract down, how many times over the previous year did he say he would sort his contract out and never did?
He fucked us not once by leaving us for buttons.
Not even Twice by going to Newcastle when he could have 'done a Macher' and held out for Liverpool.
But THREE times by signing for the team we fucking hate the most in all the World.
But clap away by all means.
He's just (only just) below Doiuff in my list followed by Intanjie and now Macherano, and Macherano's only on there because he refused to play v City and all the fucking whinging he's done about us since!
[/quote]
I don't particularly remember him saying he wass definitely going to sign a new contract the season before he left, but I do remember him saying that he would never leave on a Bosman, and to be fair to him, he didn't!
Why?
He was running his contract down, how many times over the previous year did he say he would sort his contract out and never did?
He fucked us not once by leaving us for buttons.
Not even Twice by going to Newcastle when he could have 'done a Macher' and held out for Liverpool.
But THREE times by signing for the team we fucking hate the most in all the World.
But clap away by all means.
He's just (only just) below Doiuff in my list followed by Intanjie and now Macherano, and Macherano's only on there because he refused to play v City and all the fucking whinging he's done about us since!
[/quote]
I don't particularly remember him saying he wass definitely going to sign a new contract the season before he left, but I do remember him saying that he would never leave on a Bosman, and to be fair to him, he didn't!
I do remember his agent being on holiday for 6 months, so all negotiations were on hold. He could have at least had the balls to be a bit more open and honest, and in my eyes that would have enabled him to do what he did without the sour taste.
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=41761.msg1170796#msg1170796 date=1283876982]
I do remember his agent being on holiday for 6 months, so all negotiations were on hold. He could have at least had the balls to be a bit more open and honest, and in my eyes that would have enabled him to do what he did without the sour taste.
[/quote]
Isn't that what Masher did? He said he wanted out and refused to sign a new contract.....the reaction was not any different.
Its not possible to please everybody. They both got what they wanted. They were a bit ruthless about it......but hey we live in a competitive world.
I do remember his agent being on holiday for 6 months, so all negotiations were on hold. He could have at least had the balls to be a bit more open and honest, and in my eyes that would have enabled him to do what he did without the sour taste.
[/quote]
Isn't that what Masher did? He said he wanted out and refused to sign a new contract.....the reaction was not any different.
Its not possible to please everybody. They both got what they wanted. They were a bit ruthless about it......but hey we live in a competitive world.
[quote author=Portly link=topic=41761.msg1170814#msg1170814 date=1283878976]
The difference was that Owen kept telling journalists that he was going to sign a contract extension eventually, while Mascherano never pretended that he wanted to do that.
[/quote]
Ya....thats what i meant. Loch Ness said that Owen wouldn't be getting as much shit if he was honest and said he had no intention of signing a contract.
I doubt that would have been the case....see Masher.
1. Whenever what the fans want and what the player wants differ, the player usually gets his way.
2. The fans are usually unhappy about that....
To state that it would have been different if they were a bit more honest is bollox....i'm not buying it.
The difference was that Owen kept telling journalists that he was going to sign a contract extension eventually, while Mascherano never pretended that he wanted to do that.
[/quote]
Ya....thats what i meant. Loch Ness said that Owen wouldn't be getting as much shit if he was honest and said he had no intention of signing a contract.
I doubt that would have been the case....see Masher.
1. Whenever what the fans want and what the player wants differ, the player usually gets his way.
2. The fans are usually unhappy about that....
To state that it would have been different if they were a bit more honest is bollox....i'm not buying it.
You have a point, Julian..
You dont have to buy it, but what you said was that you didnt have a problem wth it.
I do.
Doesnt change anything though.
The main difference for me is the value of the contribution of each player; Mascherano doesnt have an FA Cup named after him, and Owen wasnt plucked from a West Ham bench where he didnt get a single game.
You dont have to buy it, but what you said was that you didnt have a problem wth it.
I do.
Doesnt change anything though.
The main difference for me is the value of the contribution of each player; Mascherano doesnt have an FA Cup named after him, and Owen wasnt plucked from a West Ham bench where he didnt get a single game.
[quote author=Portly link=topic=41761.msg1170814#msg1170814 date=1283878976]
The difference was that Owen kept telling journalists that he was going to sign a contract extension eventually, while Mascherano never pretended that he wanted to do that.
[/quote]
Resounding nail/head interface.
The difference was that Owen kept telling journalists that he was going to sign a contract extension eventually, while Mascherano never pretended that he wanted to do that.
[/quote]
Resounding nail/head interface.
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41761.msg1170820#msg1170820 date=1283880287]
The main difference for me is the value of the contribution of each player; Mascherano doesnt have an FA Cup named after him, and Owen wasnt plucked from a West Ham bench where he didnt get a single game.
[/quote]
I can understand your (and many others) point of view on the reasoning behind the bad blood involved in the two transfers....but i think its something that needs to be taken on the chin. Its not really worth the histrionics that is being shown in the forums and in the stadium ....to the effect of "how dare you leave us, when we needed you....BOOOOOOOOO"
I agree that Owen has done more for Liverpool. Its clearly not debatable. But Liverpool didn't do Masher any favor by signing him. We got on opportunity thanks to the very poor handling of a world class player at West Ham. Masher had a very very impressive world cup before that and everybody in football knew who he was. As a confident young bloke, i doubt he thought his career was doomed. He needs to have had at least that much self belief to make it as far as he has done. There were many top clubs in for him, and Rafa convinced him(with a bag of stones) to play for us. His wage at 35,000 pounds a week was nearly half of what players his ability were getting paid. I really don't see how we went out of the way to accommodate Masher, who was allegedly in a desperate situation.
In the end they both served us well, when they were here. I will choose to remember them for that. 3 years is a significant amount of time spent working for our club.
The main difference for me is the value of the contribution of each player; Mascherano doesnt have an FA Cup named after him, and Owen wasnt plucked from a West Ham bench where he didnt get a single game.
[/quote]
I can understand your (and many others) point of view on the reasoning behind the bad blood involved in the two transfers....but i think its something that needs to be taken on the chin. Its not really worth the histrionics that is being shown in the forums and in the stadium ....to the effect of "how dare you leave us, when we needed you....BOOOOOOOOO"
I agree that Owen has done more for Liverpool. Its clearly not debatable. But Liverpool didn't do Masher any favor by signing him. We got on opportunity thanks to the very poor handling of a world class player at West Ham. Masher had a very very impressive world cup before that and everybody in football knew who he was. As a confident young bloke, i doubt he thought his career was doomed. He needs to have had at least that much self belief to make it as far as he has done. There were many top clubs in for him, and Rafa convinced him(with a bag of stones) to play for us. His wage at 35,000 pounds a week was nearly half of what players his ability were getting paid. I really don't see how we went out of the way to accommodate Masher, who was allegedly in a desperate situation.
In the end they both served us well, when they were here. I will choose to remember them for that. 3 years is a significant amount of time spent working for our club.
Julian, Mascher let himself down by refusing to play a game of football. It was at that point people turned en mass. Before then, I would say the majority were quite sympathetic towards his predicament with his family. Owen never refused to play, and stating a desire to leave would not have brought out an angry mob, especially after 8 great seasons and single handedly winning trophies.
Any and all ill-will that I feel towards either Mascher or Owen are due to the nature of each departure... The lies. The refusing to play. During their time here, they were wonderful servants to the club, and should be respected for all that they did for LFC. Their achievements on the field should not be denegrated because they left us in none-too-pleasing manners. Likewise, their undoubted quality as LFC players should not make them immune to the critisisim they each deserve (imho) for the way things ended with each of them.
I doubt that any 'real world' fan would critisise a top, top player for having their head turned by Real or Barca, especially under the circumstances that have existed at Anfield for the past decade or more - Had each acted more honestly / professionally as they navigated their way out of LFC, I think most of us would not begrudge them the move. 'Cept the United part, of course!
Vlad / Portly / any other "mature" gents out there: The interweb didn't exist in the mid-80's, so I don't know if Graeme Souness or Rushy were denounced like this when they chose to leave Anfield (at a time when we ruled the world) way back when... What are your recollections of the time?
I doubt that any 'real world' fan would critisise a top, top player for having their head turned by Real or Barca, especially under the circumstances that have existed at Anfield for the past decade or more - Had each acted more honestly / professionally as they navigated their way out of LFC, I think most of us would not begrudge them the move. 'Cept the United part, of course!
Vlad / Portly / any other "mature" gents out there: The interweb didn't exist in the mid-80's, so I don't know if Graeme Souness or Rushy were denounced like this when they chose to leave Anfield (at a time when we ruled the world) way back when... What are your recollections of the time?
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