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Messi

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[quote author=keniget link=topic=33810.msg877469#msg877469 date=1243508058]
It's been said for a while that Iniesta needs to add more goals to his game (before that the same was said about Messi - not anymore though obviously). He acts the provider a lot, but he definitely has the ability to get on the scoresheet more often and it's something I'd like to see him improve upon.

I noticed one or two omissions in your comparison, most notably in the Espanyol game where Messi won and took a pen in the last minute to win the game, but really, if we're talking in the language of goals and assists, there is no point in making any comparisions. Iniesta's 5 goals / 10 assists simply do not stand up to Messi's 38 goals / 16 assists.

It doesn't matter though. Both are wonderful players, neither of which we'll ever get, but in hypothetical wonderland, I'd be over the moon to get either.
[/quote]

I didnt omit anything Ken, if i didnt post it it wasnt on the webby i was using to refer to. Apologies if you think i was trying to sway a case, i wasnt. My whole point was that you are right regards impact, in fact it was more than i thought, i cant argue that, but it isnt a chasm given the differing positions. Anyhoo....
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33810.msg877474#msg877474 date=1243508232]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33810.msg877467#msg877467 date=1243507983]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33810.msg877449#msg877449 date=1243507402]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33810.msg877427#msg877427 date=1243506575]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=33810.msg877369#msg877369 date=1243502874]
There have been more than a few games in which Barca have passed the ball around struggling until Messi has come up with a few bits of magic to win them the game.

I can kinda get the the tendency to view Messi as a bit one dimensional - he can be quite often and I actually didn't think he was all that last night - but he is without a doubt the star of that team and they rely on him immensely.

Iniesta is a wonderful, wonderful player and I've not been shy in raving about him either, but given the choice of who to bring to Liverpool, it really would be Messi every time.
[/quote]
I just did a bit of a comparison, and you are right, Messi does win more games, but there isnt much in it, and being as one played (all these games) at WF and the other at CM its still quite interesting to see there isnt a huge difference.
My point being if Iniesta played all season where Henry plays i dont think there would have been such a huge difference.
(this only includes games that one or the other affected the scoreline and i only went to christmas because i got real bored)
SANTANDER 1-1 -

Iniesta earns pen.
GIJON 6-1 -

Iniesta assist for first goal
Messi assist Iniesta goal
Iniesta assist Messi goal
Messi goal
BETIS 3-2 -

Messi assist
ESPANYOL 1-2 -

Messi goal
ATLETICO 6-1 -

Iniesta assist
Messi wins a pen
Messi goal
Iniesta Assist
ALMERIA 5-0 -

Iniesta assist
Iniesta assist
Messi assist
MALAGA 1-4 -

Messi goal
VALLADOLID 6-0 -

Messi assist
Messi assist
Iniesta assist
RECREATIVO 0-2 -

Messi goal
SEVILLE 0-3 -

Messi goal
Messi goal
MADRID - 2-0 -

Messi goal
MALLORCA 3-1 -

Iniesta goal
Iniesta assist
OSOSUNA 2-3 -

Messi assist
Iniesta assist
Messi goal
DEPORTIVO 5-0

Messi goal
NUMANCIA 4-1

Iniesta assist
Iniesta assist
Messi Goal
Messi goal...
and so it goes on and on. The one thing i did notice was how many assists Xavi and Alves have, its fucking loads.
Suffice it to say that in Henry, Eto'o, Alves, Messi, Iniesta and Xavi they have a very real threat from fucking everywhere....oh and id still take Iniesta.

-----------------------------------Reina-----------------------------------
Arbeloa------------Agger--------------------Carragher---------Insua
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------Mascherano-------------------------------
----------------Gerrard--------------------------Alonso-----------------
Kuyt--------------------------Torres-----------------------------Iniesta

Fucking lovely.
[/quote]

you say 'jesus wept' and then proceed to put inesta in a left forward position.
[/quote]

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!!?!
I know full well where he plays, my comment regarding Dirk was OBVIOUSLY a joke, hence Keniget saying HA in his next post you unbearably thick annoying stat heavy gonad!
[/quote]

are you on your period or something? fucking hell calm down I just misread the previous post.
[/quote]

You didnt 'Misread' it, you read it and missed the humour, because you (as is abundantly clear) do not have a sense of humour.

POSTER A (after witnessing the Gerrard FA cup final) - Great game, i thought Gerrard had a shocker though.
YOU - How can you say that, he scored 2 goals and was at the heart of everythzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33810.msg877479#msg877479 date=1243508393]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33810.msg877474#msg877474 date=1243508232]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33810.msg877467#msg877467 date=1243507983]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33810.msg877449#msg877449 date=1243507402]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33810.msg877427#msg877427 date=1243506575]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=33810.msg877369#msg877369 date=1243502874]
There have been more than a few games in which Barca have passed the ball around struggling until Messi has come up with a few bits of magic to win them the game.

I can kinda get the the tendency to view Messi as a bit one dimensional - he can be quite often and I actually didn't think he was all that last night - but he is without a doubt the star of that team and they rely on him immensely.

Iniesta is a wonderful, wonderful player and I've not been shy in raving about him either, but given the choice of who to bring to Liverpool, it really would be Messi every time.
[/quote]
I just did a bit of a comparison, and you are right, Messi does win more games, but there isnt much in it, and being as one played (all these games) at WF and the other at CM its still quite interesting to see there isnt a huge difference.
My point being if Iniesta played all season where Henry plays i dont think there would have been such a huge difference.
(this only includes games that one or the other affected the scoreline and i only went to christmas because i got real bored)
SANTANDER 1-1 -

Iniesta earns pen.
GIJON 6-1 -

Iniesta assist for first goal
Messi assist Iniesta goal
Iniesta assist Messi goal
Messi goal
BETIS 3-2 -

Messi assist
ESPANYOL 1-2 -

Messi goal
ATLETICO 6-1 -

Iniesta assist
Messi wins a pen
Messi goal
Iniesta Assist
ALMERIA 5-0 -

Iniesta assist
Iniesta assist
Messi assist
MALAGA 1-4 -

Messi goal
VALLADOLID 6-0 -

Messi assist
Messi assist
Iniesta assist
RECREATIVO 0-2 -

Messi goal
SEVILLE 0-3 -

Messi goal
Messi goal
MADRID - 2-0 -

Messi goal
MALLORCA 3-1 -

Iniesta goal
Iniesta assist
OSOSUNA 2-3 -

Messi assist
Iniesta assist
Messi goal
DEPORTIVO 5-0

Messi goal
NUMANCIA 4-1

Iniesta assist
Iniesta assist
Messi Goal
Messi goal...
and so it goes on and on. The one thing i did notice was how many assists Xavi and Alves have, its fucking loads.
Suffice it to say that in Henry, Eto'o, Alves, Messi, Iniesta and Xavi they have a very real threat from fucking everywhere....oh and id still take Iniesta.

-----------------------------------Reina-----------------------------------
Arbeloa------------Agger--------------------Carragher---------Insua
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------Mascherano-------------------------------
----------------Gerrard--------------------------Alonso-----------------
Kuyt--------------------------Torres-----------------------------Iniesta

Fucking lovely.
[/quote]

you say 'jesus wept' and then proceed to put inesta in a left forward position.
[/quote]

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!!?!
I know full well where he plays, my comment regarding Dirk was OBVIOUSLY a joke, hence Keniget saying HA in his next post you unbearably thick annoying stat heavy gonad!
[/quote]

are you on your period or something? fucking hell calm down I just misread the previous post.
[/quote]

You didnt 'Misread' it, you read it and missed the humour, because you (as is abundantly clear) do not have a sense of humour.

POSTER A (after witnessing the Gerrard FA cup final) - Great game, i thought Gerrard had a shocker though.
YOU - How can you say that, he scored 2 goals and was at the heart of everythzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
[/quote]

nope I misread post. although I don't know what's worse, a lack of humour or the inability to read.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33810.msg877482#msg877482 date=1243508554]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33810.msg877479#msg877479 date=1243508393]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33810.msg877474#msg877474 date=1243508232]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33810.msg877467#msg877467 date=1243507983]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33810.msg877449#msg877449 date=1243507402]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33810.msg877427#msg877427 date=1243506575]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=33810.msg877369#msg877369 date=1243502874]
There have been more than a few games in which Barca have passed the ball around struggling until Messi has come up with a few bits of magic to win them the game.

I can kinda get the the tendency to view Messi as a bit one dimensional - he can be quite often and I actually didn't think he was all that last night - but he is without a doubt the star of that team and they rely on him immensely.

Iniesta is a wonderful, wonderful player and I've not been shy in raving about him either, but given the choice of who to bring to Liverpool, it really would be Messi every time.
[/quote]
I just did a bit of a comparison, and you are right, Messi does win more games, but there isnt much in it, and being as one played (all these games) at WF and the other at CM its still quite interesting to see there isnt a huge difference.
My point being if Iniesta played all season where Henry plays i dont think there would have been such a huge difference.
(this only includes games that one or the other affected the scoreline and i only went to christmas because i got real bored)
SANTANDER 1-1 -

Iniesta earns pen.
GIJON 6-1 -

Iniesta assist for first goal
Messi assist Iniesta goal
Iniesta assist Messi goal
Messi goal
BETIS 3-2 -

Messi assist
ESPANYOL 1-2 -

Messi goal
ATLETICO 6-1 -

Iniesta assist
Messi wins a pen
Messi goal
Iniesta Assist
ALMERIA 5-0 -

Iniesta assist
Iniesta assist
Messi assist
MALAGA 1-4 -

Messi goal
VALLADOLID 6-0 -

Messi assist
Messi assist
Iniesta assist
RECREATIVO 0-2 -

Messi goal
SEVILLE 0-3 -

Messi goal
Messi goal
MADRID - 2-0 -

Messi goal
MALLORCA 3-1 -

Iniesta goal
Iniesta assist
OSOSUNA 2-3 -

Messi assist
Iniesta assist
Messi goal
DEPORTIVO 5-0

Messi goal
NUMANCIA 4-1

Iniesta assist
Iniesta assist
Messi Goal
Messi goal...
and so it goes on and on. The one thing i did notice was how many assists Xavi and Alves have, its fucking loads.
Suffice it to say that in Henry, Eto'o, Alves, Messi, Iniesta and Xavi they have a very real threat from fucking everywhere....oh and id still take Iniesta.

-----------------------------------Reina-----------------------------------
Arbeloa------------Agger--------------------Carragher---------Insua
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------Mascherano-------------------------------
----------------Gerrard--------------------------Alonso-----------------
Kuyt--------------------------Torres-----------------------------Iniesta

Fucking lovely.
[/quote]

you say 'jesus wept' and then proceed to put inesta in a left forward position.
[/quote]

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!!?!
I know full well where he plays, my comment regarding Dirk was OBVIOUSLY a joke, hence Keniget saying HA in his next post you unbearably thick annoying stat heavy gonad!
[/quote]

are you on your period or something? fucking hell calm down I just misread the previous post.
[/quote]

You didnt 'Misread' it, you read it and missed the humour, because you (as is abundantly clear) do not have a sense of humour.

POSTER A (after witnessing the Gerrard FA cup final) - Great game, i thought Gerrard had a shocker though.
YOU - How can you say that, he scored 2 goals and was at the heart of everythzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
[/quote]

nope I misread post. although I don't know what's worse, a lack of humour or the inability to read.
[/quote]

At least you ally it with an unbelievable good grace and refusal to get riled up.
i looked up indefatigability in the dictionary and there was these two pictures.

s_spider.jpg


_40127544_students_203152.gif
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33810.msg877491#msg877491 date=1243508851]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33810.msg877482#msg877482 date=1243508554]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33810.msg877479#msg877479 date=1243508393]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33810.msg877474#msg877474 date=1243508232]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33810.msg877467#msg877467 date=1243507983]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33810.msg877449#msg877449 date=1243507402]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33810.msg877427#msg877427 date=1243506575]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=33810.msg877369#msg877369 date=1243502874]
There have been more than a few games in which Barca have passed the ball around struggling until Messi has come up with a few bits of magic to win them the game.

I can kinda get the the tendency to view Messi as a bit one dimensional - he can be quite often and I actually didn't think he was all that last night - but he is without a doubt the star of that team and they rely on him immensely.

Iniesta is a wonderful, wonderful player and I've not been shy in raving about him either, but given the choice of who to bring to Liverpool, it really would be Messi every time.
[/quote]
I just did a bit of a comparison, and you are right, Messi does win more games, but there isnt much in it, and being as one played (all these games) at WF and the other at CM its still quite interesting to see there isnt a huge difference.
My point being if Iniesta played all season where Henry plays i dont think there would have been such a huge difference.
(this only includes games that one or the other affected the scoreline and i only went to christmas because i got real bored)
SANTANDER 1-1 -

Iniesta earns pen.
GIJON 6-1 -

Iniesta assist for first goal
Messi assist Iniesta goal
Iniesta assist Messi goal
Messi goal
BETIS 3-2 -

Messi assist
ESPANYOL 1-2 -

Messi goal
ATLETICO 6-1 -

Iniesta assist
Messi wins a pen
Messi goal
Iniesta Assist
ALMERIA 5-0 -

Iniesta assist
Iniesta assist
Messi assist
MALAGA 1-4 -

Messi goal
VALLADOLID 6-0 -

Messi assist
Messi assist
Iniesta assist
RECREATIVO 0-2 -

Messi goal
SEVILLE 0-3 -

Messi goal
Messi goal
MADRID - 2-0 -

Messi goal
MALLORCA 3-1 -

Iniesta goal
Iniesta assist
OSOSUNA 2-3 -

Messi assist
Iniesta assist
Messi goal
DEPORTIVO 5-0

Messi goal
NUMANCIA 4-1

Iniesta assist
Iniesta assist
Messi Goal
Messi goal...
and so it goes on and on. The one thing i did notice was how many assists Xavi and Alves have, its fucking loads.
Suffice it to say that in Henry, Eto'o, Alves, Messi, Iniesta and Xavi they have a very real threat from fucking everywhere....oh and id still take Iniesta.

-----------------------------------Reina-----------------------------------
Arbeloa------------Agger--------------------Carragher---------Insua
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------Mascherano-------------------------------
----------------Gerrard--------------------------Alonso-----------------
Kuyt--------------------------Torres-----------------------------Iniesta

Fucking lovely.
[/quote]

you say 'jesus wept' and then proceed to put inesta in a left forward position.
[/quote]

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!!?!
I know full well where he plays, my comment regarding Dirk was OBVIOUSLY a joke, hence Keniget saying HA in his next post you unbearably thick annoying stat heavy gonad!
[/quote]

are you on your period or something? fucking hell calm down I just misread the previous post.
[/quote]

You didnt 'Misread' it, you read it and missed the humour, because you (as is abundantly clear) do not have a sense of humour.

POSTER A (after witnessing the Gerrard FA cup final) - Great game, i thought Gerrard had a shocker though.
YOU - How can you say that, he scored 2 goals and was at the heart of everythzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
[/quote]

nope I misread post. although I don't know what's worse, a lack of humour or the inability to read.
[/quote]

At least you ally it with an unbelievable good grace and refusal to get riled up.
i looked up indefatigability in the dictionary and there was these two pictures.

s_spider.jpg


_40127544_students_203152.gif

[/quote]

bren can get to me but its taken him years to do it.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33810.msg877475#msg877475 date=1243508236]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=33810.msg877469#msg877469 date=1243508058]
It's been said for a while that Iniesta needs to add more goals to his game (before that the same was said about Messi - not anymore though obviously). He acts the provider a lot, but he definitely has the ability to get on the scoresheet more often and it's something I'd like to see him improve upon.

I noticed one or two omissions in your comparison, most notably in the Espanyol game where Messi won and took a pen in the last minute to win the game, but really, if we're talking in the language of goals and assists, there is no point in making any comparisions. Iniesta's 5 goals / 10 assists simply do not stand up to Messi's 38 goals / 16 assists.

It doesn't matter though. Both are wonderful players, neither of which we'll ever get, but in hypothetical wonderland, I'd be over the moon to get either.
[/quote]

I didnt omit anything Ken, if i didnt post it it wasnt on the webby i was using to refer to. Apologies if you think i was trying to sway a case, i wasnt. My whole point was that you are right regards impact, in fact it was more than i thought, i cant argue that, but it isnt a chasm given the differing positions. Anyhoo....
[/quote]

I wasn't trying to imply that you did it purposely - just pointing it out.

Like you say, they fulfil different roles for the team, so it's not an entirely fair comparison anyways.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=33810.msg877498#msg877498 date=1243509030]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33810.msg877475#msg877475 date=1243508236]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=33810.msg877469#msg877469 date=1243508058]
It's been said for a while that Iniesta needs to add more goals to his game (before that the same was said about Messi - not anymore though obviously). He acts the provider a lot, but he definitely has the ability to get on the scoresheet more often and it's something I'd like to see him improve upon.

I noticed one or two omissions in your comparison, most notably in the Espanyol game where Messi won and took a pen in the last minute to win the game, but really, if we're talking in the language of goals and assists, there is no point in making any comparisions. Iniesta's 5 goals / 10 assists simply do not stand up to Messi's 38 goals / 16 assists.

It doesn't matter though. Both are wonderful players, neither of which we'll ever get, but in hypothetical wonderland, I'd be over the moon to get either.
[/quote]

I didnt omit anything Ken, if i didnt post it it wasnt on the webby i was using to refer to. Apologies if you think i was trying to sway a case, i wasnt. My whole point was that you are right regards impact, in fact it was more than i thought, i cant argue that, but it isnt a chasm given the differing positions. Anyhoo....
[/quote]

I wasn't trying to imply that you did it purposely - just pointing it out.

Like you say, they fulfil different roles for the team, so it's not an entirely fair comparison anyways.
[/quote]

it has to be said though iniesta has matured into a truly world class talent.
to stand out amongst the likes of henry, eto'o messi etc is no mean feat.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33810.msg877124#msg877124 date=1243469049]
All this is decided on one game is it?

Ronaldo doesn't need to prove himself to anyone.
[/quote]

How about 40 odd goals this season?

Your biggest draw back on Messi was not scoring on the biggest stage.

He did that and you still knock him.
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=33810.msg878060#msg878060 date=1243572292]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33810.msg877124#msg877124 date=1243469049]
All this is decided on one game is it?

Ronaldo doesn't need to prove himself to anyone.
[/quote]

How about 40 odd goals this season?

Your biggest draw back on Messi was not scoring on the biggest stage.

He did that and you still knock him.
[/quote]

Where have I "knocked him"?
 
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