Match Thread - West Ham V Liverpool Fa Cup Fourth Round

[Arn]

If you give a permanent place in your defence to a man who can't tackle, it's never going to end well. I have seen us give away so many goals over the years because of Lucas's inability to tackle properly, that I am just fed up with him. I agree that Lucas had a good game tonight, but the tackling thing is always going to let him down. He's not going to learn how to do it at this stage in his career.

The thing is that he makes it so easy for referees with the sheer clumsiness. If you look at Flanno's performance tonight, he was quite rough but he largely got away with it.

So the player that make the most successful tackles a game in the PL year in year out can't tackle?

If Lucas can't tackle then there isn't a single player in the league that can. The stats says that he is the best when it comes down to successful tackles and in this case the stats says it all.

But don't make that truth stop you spreading lies about Lucas.

If someone should be banned then it is members like you that spread lies about our players, like Lucas in this case. If you want to discuss football then at least be man enough to tell the truth but you and the rest of the Lucas haters don't have balls enough to do that.

It is time that the moderators ban some of the members that spread lies about our players and talk shit about them that is imagined up. You are one of them that should be banned.

 

[Arn]

Fuck off for good.

THAT is not a joke.

If someone should be banned then it is you. I'm not breaking against any rule but you and a lot of others do. You attack people without any good reason at all. You are not alone doing that. I'm sorry to say that I don't.

 

[gkmacca]

Hopefully we'll look back on this short and rather pitiful FA Cup run and see it as a bit of a godsend, seeing as it's allowed Klopp to see a few buds of recovery in the form of Brannagan, Stewart, Smith, Chirivella and, if he can ever learn not to keep falling down, Teixeira. We need a squad full of Klopp disciples to make this team progress, so the willingness of these younger players bodes well.

But unless we win the League Cup we could easily have nothing to play for by next month, so it's going to be a tough old time until the summer. If, like me, you feel that the spine of this team needs to be replaced, then at best or we can look forward to between now and June are a few positive signs around the edges. Give Kent and Ojo more chances, keep on with the cup kids...and brng Yesil back asap!!!

 

[Best Believe It]

It's been nice to see the progression of Teixeira, Stewart and Ilori across the cup games. Brad Smith seemed to fit in from the start but the other three got visibly better each game. Good to see.

 

[Nir.Barak]

Hopefully we'll look back on this short and rather pitiful FA Cup run and see it as a bit of a godsend, seeing as it's allowed Klopp to see a few buds of recovery in the form of Brannagan, Stewart, Smith, Chirivella and, if he can ever learn not to keep falling down, Teixeira. We need a squad full of Klopp disciples to make this team progress, so the willingness of these younger players bodes well.

But unless we win the League Cup we could easily have nothing to play for by next month, so it's going to be a tough old time until the summer. If, like me, you feel that the spine of this team needs to be replaced, then at best or we can look forward to between now and June are a few positive signs around the edges. Give Kent and Ojo more chances, keep on with the cup kids...and brng Yesil back asap!!!

Amen.
Unfortunately it will be Lallana, Milner, Moreno, Sakho, Lucas, Can week in, week out 'till May redeems us from this season.

 

[rurikbird]

Amen.
Unfortunately it will be Lallana, Milner, Moreno, Sakho, Lucas, Can week in, week out 'till May redeems us from this season.

Just want to remind everybody that Can is 22, younger than Teixeira and same age as Stewart. Moreno is 23, Origi only 20.

Klopp in his career has never been afraid to give young players a chance if they deserve it. I agree with Macca, I hope this FA Cup run will be a springboard for some of our young players to show they have a future here.

 

[rurikbird]

Where is the MOM thread? I can't wait to place Lucas on top of the list, he's been really magnificent in this game. Probably the single best CB performance of the season by a Liverpool player. Who would have thought...

 

[Jack D Rips]

Just want to remind everybody that Can is 22, younger than Teixeira and same age as Stewart. Moreno is 23, Origi only 20.

Klopp in his career has never been afraid to give young players a chance if they deserve it. I agree with Macca, I hope this FA Cup run will be a springboard for some of our young players to show they have a future here.

Yep. The main disappointment in last nights result for me, is that I may not get the opportunity to watch these "fringe" players again for a while. Some of the football they played last night, especially in the first half, was fantastic to watch.

I hope he uses them in the Europa league, and gives them time in the league as well.

 

[Silver Sean]

Our second team is better than our first team. I'd rather watch them than the shower of tits we usually see. Apart from Benteke who I fucking hate. Thick, immobile, and utterly shit. I hated him at Villa, was gutted when we signed him and hate him now. I wish he would just fuck off.

Generally a good performance, a tough defeat and somewhat undeserved. Lucas was imperious at the back. I'd happily have those two full backs play every week.
Will have given Klopp and better idea of who to keep and who to flog too.
Oh well, onward and upward.

 

[ILD]

So the player that make the most successful tackles a game in the PL year in year out can't tackle?

If Lucas can't tackle then there isn't a single player in the league that can. The stats says that he is the best when it comes down to successful tackles and in this case the stats says it all.

But don't make that truth stop you spreading lies about Lucas.

If someone should be banned then it is members like you that spread lies about our players, like Lucas in this case. If you want to discuss football then at least be man enough to tell the truth but you and the rest of the Lucas haters don't have balls enough to do that.

It is time that the moderators ban some of the members that spread lies about our players and talk shit about them that is imagined up. You are one of them that should be banned.

Arn, will you give over about fans telling 'lies'. You're totally missing the point here. The match thread was littered with posts praising Lucas and many awarded him our MOTM. Surely you can understand the frustration of Lucas giving away a needless free to allow them a chance to score in the last kick of the game? Lucas has been here close to a decade and we've had a decade of silly little fouls like that. I'm a big Lucas fan btw and he was excellent last night.

Once again you claim people don't support the club because in your view they hate Lucas. Look in the mirror buddy. You seem to care about Lucas first and the club second. Always on a crusade to defend him before even showing frustration to losing the game. It's mad. I don't know how you even enjoy football that way.

 

[keniget]

I think we need to sell Lucas and rid ourselves of these arguments.

 

[6TimesaRed]

I think we need to sell Lucas and rid ourselves of these arguments.

Burn him... He is Witch that's had many under his spell for years..

We would not get much for him anyway..

 

[ILD]

I think we need to sell Lucas and rid ourselves of these arguments.

Yep.

Most of us 'get' it though. Lucas Foot Soldiers like Arn pop up every now again though.

 

[Portly]

There's no way I hate Lucas. He's a nice family guy. He never causes trouble or features in shock revelations in the press. He follows the manager's instructions which I think is why he has always been selected by a succession of managers. His reading of the game is good and he works hard.

But he can't tackle. This is surely a fatal flaw in a defensive midfielder. When an opponent gets past Lucas, he just sticks his leg out and trips him up. It's always obvious to the referee. Lucas grins sheepishly. Free kick, goal.

 

[Grjt2]

There's no way I hate Lucas. He's a nice family guy. He never causes trouble or features in shock revelations in the press. He follows the manager's instructions which I think is why he has always been selected by a succession of managers. His reading of the game is good and he works hard.

But he can't tackle. This is surely a fatal flaw in a defensive midfielder. When an opponent gets past Lucas, he just sticks his leg out and trips him up. It's always obvious to the referee. Lucas grins sheepishly. Free kick, goal.

Exactly.

I mean, I know this is the Premier era where everything is either "OMG he is da best eva!!!!1!" or "Fuck dat man he is total shit I am better - serious" but what part can anyone disagree with on the Lucas criticism in this thread?

Basically it was there-or-thereabouts a man of the match performance (with the bonus of being whilst playing out of position)..... which he then ruined with a brainless challenge. So basically, his Liverpool career in microcosm...decent, with flashes of excellence, undermined by tackling and challenge-making spackerdom, moving at snails pace.

 

[Portly]

Xavier Mascherano is my idea of a defensive midfielder! 😉

 

[manwithnoname]

Exactly.

I mean, I know this is the Premier era where everything is either "OMG he is da best eva!!!!1!" or "Fuck dat man he is total shit I am better - serious" but what part can anyone disagree with on the Lucas criticism in this thread?

Basically it was there-or-thereabouts a man of the match performance (with the bonus of being whilst playing out of position)..... which he then ruined with a brainless challenge. So basically, his Liverpool career in microcosm...decent, with flashes of excellence, undermined by tackling and challenge-making spackerdom, moving at snails pace.

I don't think it was his career in a microcosm at all. It was far better. He played really well, organised the defence, led and cajoled and communicated. He made several great blocks and challenges, and apart from the occasional stupid pass, used the ball well.

The challenge at the end was brainless and costly, yes. But Lucas makes those challenges every game, but usually doesn't play anywhere near as well. He's a limited, mediocre player who has played at this club for far longer than his talent merits.

Last night was a great performance, which is rare for him because he's not a very good player, with his usual stupid fouls and mistakes.

 

[kingjulian]

Call me old fashioned....when one of our defenders puts in the best defensive performance of the season, we used to come out of the game with a clean sheet or keep it down to a one goal draw against a far superior team at the very least.

These days "single best defensive performance of the season" is awarded to players who are part of a team that ends up 1-2 against West fucking Ham, and furthermore the player awarded with said award is directly responsible for the oppositions winning goal.

The standards have always been set low when assessing Lucas.... "Oh, did you see how well he made that sideways pass...."etc. But this thread is among the lowest of lows when it comes to Lucas worshipping from certain fans.

 

[kingjulian]

I don't think it was his career in a microcosm at all. It was far better. He played really well, organised the defence, led and cajoled and communicated. He made several great blocks and challenges, and apart from the occasional stupid pass, used the ball well.

The challenge at the end was brainless and costly, yes. But Lucas makes those challenges every game, but usually doesn't play anywhere near as well. He's a limited, mediocre player who has played at this club for far longer than his talent merits.

Last night was a great performance, which is rare for him because he's not a very good player, with his usual stupid fouls and mistakes.

I agree with this...word for word.

 

[Tinto]

Call me old fashioned....when one of our defenders puts in the best defensive performance of the season, we used to come out of the game with a clean sheet or keep it down to a one goal draw against a far superior team at the very least.

These days "single best defensive performance of the season" is awarded to players who are part of a team that ends up 2-1 against West fucking Ham, and furthermore the player awarded with said award is directly responsible for the oppositions winning goal.

The standards have always been set low when assessing Lucas.... "Oh, did you see how well he made that sideways pass...."etc. But this thread is among the lowest of lows when it comes to Lucas worshipping from certain fans.

So Lucas didn't play well yesterday?

 

[Grjt2]

I don't think it was his career in a microcosm at all. It was far better. He played really well, organised the defence, led and cajoled and communicated. He made several great blocks and challenges, and apart from the occasional stupid pass, used the ball well.

The challenge at the end was brainless and costly, yes. But Lucas makes those challenges every game, but usually doesn't play anywhere near as well. He's a limited, mediocre player who has played at this club for far longer than his talent merits.

Last night was a great performance, which is rare for him because he's not a very good player, with his usual stupid fouls and mistakes.

I think my bigger point was the rebuttal that he'd been treated unfairly in the thread - where he was actually largely lauded for his out of position performance, and rightly castigated for the stupidity at the end. I understand your point because it was largely a well above par performance - but then it depends on your opinion of him as a player. However, I thought he was slow and functional for the most part - surprisingly intuitive in his positionning and blocking, and safe with the ball. There were some really good bits but that was ruined by his brainless challenge - it sums him up for me.

 

[Portly]

It often happens over the years that a particular player causes a strong division of opinions as to whether he is any good or not. There used to be a similar debate over Danny Murphy.

My opinion is that when there is uncertainty like this, it probably means the club could find somebody better whom everybody agrees is good!

 

[Modo]

And people say I have an agenda. Jesus Christ. Does every praise of Lucas have to end with a "but"?

Yes, he caused the set piece we conceded from.
No, he wasn't at fault for the goal.
Yes, we would have won if Benteke hadn't shat himself in front of goal.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

It often happens over the years that a particular player causes a strong division of opinions as to whether he is any good or not. There used to be a similar debate over Danny Murphy.

My opinion is that when there is uncertainty like this, it probably means the club could find somebody better whom everybody agrees is good!

That can be the case, but there was similar division over Kuyt, and I think it's evident that those that didn't rate Kuyt at the time were wrong.

We could definitely do better than Lucas, but it doesn't look to be as easy as people are making out, given that we haven't managed it yet.

 

[manwithnoname]

That can be the case, but there was similar division over Kuyt, and I think it's evident that those that didn't rate Kuyt at the time were wrong.

We could definitely do better than Lucas, but it doesn't look to be as easy as people are making out, given that we haven't managed it yet.

We haven't fucking tried. There's a dozen better holding midfielders than him in the Premiership already.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

We haven't fucking tried. There's a dozen better holding midfielders than him in the Premiership already.

But, why not? Do all of our managers of the past decade have an inability to see what others see? Or is replacing him just a lower priority?

Henderson, Allen, Gerrard and Can, to name a few have been tried out and none have performed as well as him in that role.

 

[manwithnoname]

But, why not? Do all of our managers of the past decade have an inability to see what others see? Or is replacing him just a lower priority?

Henderson, Allen, Gerrard and Can, to name a few have been tried out and none have performed as well as him in that role.

I have no idea. Other priorities maybe? Whatever, it's been a mistake that hasn't been fixed since Mascherano left. Lucas as a first team regular has guaranteed a finish around 7th or worse. That says it all. He's a very average player and is getting worse.

 

[mark1975]

I don't want to come across as defending Lucas no matter what but it was noticeable tonight how much organising, encouraging and when needed bollocking Lucas did tonight. He was invaluable to the inexperienced players.
It's sad that a defensive midfielder that has seen better days showed the rest of our centre halves how to lead and defend tonight.
I hope that Klopp gives more chances to the youngsters as they have showed more bottle , desire and skill than most of the so called first team.

Fair enough mate. Last night's posts were partly frustration, he performed well and saved us on numerous occasions too. He fights for the team and is a good example to youngsters in that respect. I do think there is a fair point to be made about how frustrating he can be though, but as you say, he's a DM and probably just put in our best centre back performance of the season. It's a shame that the focus ended up being on him for the wrong reasons.

You're right about the youngsters aswell, a few of them deserve a run. I'm hugely impressed with Stewart and have always been a big fan of Tex (though at his age, it's make or break this season). Smith is another who has a good chance of making it if he can cut out a few lapses in his game.

 

[tombrown]

Hopefully we'll look back on this short and rather pitiful FA Cup run and see it as a bit of a godsend, seeing as it's allowed Klopp to see a few buds of recovery in the form of Brannagan, Stewart, Smith, Chirivella and, if he can ever learn not to keep falling down, Teixeira. We need a squad full of Klopp disciples to make this team progress, so the willingness of these younger players bodes well.

But unless we win the League Cup we could easily have nothing to play for by next month, so it's going to be a tough old time until the summer. If, like me, you feel that the spine of this team needs to be replaced, then at best or we can look forward to between now and June are a few positive signs around the edges. Give Kent and Ojo more chances, keep on with the cup kids...and brng Yesil back asap!!!

Just to be pedantic - even if we do win the league cup, there may not be anything to play for, as clearly its not worth playing for a trophy we have already won.

 

[davud graham]

Fair enough mate. Last night's posts were partly frustration, he performed well and saved us on numerous occasions too. He fights for the team and is a good example to youngsters in that respect. I do think there is a fair point to be made about how frustrating he can be though, but as you say, he's a DM and probably just put in our best centre back performance of the season. It's a shame that the focus ended up being on him for the wrong reasons.

You're right about the youngsters aswell, a few of them deserve a run. I'm hugely impressed with Stewart and have always been a big fan of Tex (though at his age, it's make or break this season). Smith is another who has a good chance of making it if he can cut out a few lapses in his game.

I'd like to think that some of the younger players did well enough to put pressure on the likes of Can, Lallana and Moreno to perform better or risk being dropped. I find Can quite frustrating and even though he shows glimpses of real quality , too often he lets himself down with a sloppy pass or not tracking back quickly enough or just being unaware of whats's going on around him.
The lads who played last night and in the previous cup games have shown the desire needed though admittedly some of them are a bit raw but that's to be expected with such inexperience. You almost always get more effort and willingness from players trying to 'make it' as opposed to the players who think they already have.