ryan is 100% correct, how anyone can watch us week in and week out and come to the conclusion that masher is more important to the team and how we play is anyones guess.
Mascherano vs Alonso
- Thread starter SaintGeorge67
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Status
Ryan is not remotely "correct", neither are you or the rest who've rushed in to call others clueless. Without Mascher beside him, Xabi would have had to do way more of the defensive stuff - at which he's not nearly as good - as would others around them. He's been every bit as important to the balance of our side as Xabi. It would be interesting to ask our opponents which of the two they'll be more relieved not to have to face. A pound to a penny says the answer wouldn't suit you, or those who agree with you, one little bit.
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=34999.msg915605#msg915605 date=1249000974]
Mascherano doesn't play football, he stops others from playing, it's much easier to find another mascherano than it is Alonso.
[/quote]
Sorry Skully but I see his point. I actually feel the same way (except when Mascher goes on one of them runs that occasionally works, throwing the opposing team's defense into chaose ;D). I've felt that Spearing might be able to replace Masch.
I remember in a few games last season.. eventhough either Gerrard or Torres was in the team, there was a time where Alonso was injured. The game was screaming for Alonso's passing.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34999.msg915776#msg915776 date=1249035156]
Ryan is not remotely "correct", neither are you or the rest who've rushed in to call others clueless. Without Mascher beside him, Xabi would have had to do way more of the defensive stuff - at which he's not nearly as good - as would others around them. He's been every bit as important to the balance of our side as Xabi. It would be interesting to ask our opponents which of the two they'll be more relieved not to have to face. A pound to a penny says the answer wouldn't suit you, or those who agree with you, one little bit.
[/quote]
Simply put, they're both good together.
Now that it (again) looks like Xabi is going.. my head tells me Lucas is gonna play more, while my heart hopes that it's Spearing.
Mascherano doesn't play football, he stops others from playing, it's much easier to find another mascherano than it is Alonso.
[/quote]
Sorry Skully but I see his point. I actually feel the same way (except when Mascher goes on one of them runs that occasionally works, throwing the opposing team's defense into chaose ;D). I've felt that Spearing might be able to replace Masch.
I remember in a few games last season.. eventhough either Gerrard or Torres was in the team, there was a time where Alonso was injured. The game was screaming for Alonso's passing.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34999.msg915776#msg915776 date=1249035156]
Ryan is not remotely "correct", neither are you or the rest who've rushed in to call others clueless. Without Mascher beside him, Xabi would have had to do way more of the defensive stuff - at which he's not nearly as good - as would others around them. He's been every bit as important to the balance of our side as Xabi. It would be interesting to ask our opponents which of the two they'll be more relieved not to have to face. A pound to a penny says the answer wouldn't suit you, or those who agree with you, one little bit.
[/quote]
Simply put, they're both good together.
Now that it (again) looks like Xabi is going.. my head tells me Lucas is gonna play more, while my heart hopes that it's Spearing.
I think pitting Masher and Alonso against each other is a relatively pointless exercise. The point is that one is a rare breed of footballer while the other is the best at what he does. We could easily find a like-for-like replacement for Mascherano because defensive midfielders have become increasingly common. We may struggle to find someone who is as adept as Mascherano, but we wouldn't be short of options. Alonso, on the other hand, is not so replaceable. He is a Rolls Royce of a footballer and anyone who is even remotely comparable is a mainstay in their respective team and therefore unattainable.
In short, selling Alonso requires us to reconfigure our team, which as we know with Rafa, is a risky process. Selling Mascherano would not. I think that is the crux of it really.
In short, selling Alonso requires us to reconfigure our team, which as we know with Rafa, is a risky process. Selling Mascherano would not. I think that is the crux of it really.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34999.msg915776#msg915776 date=1249035156]
Ryan is not remotely "correct", neither are you or the rest who've rushed in to call others clueless. Without Mascher beside him, Xabi would have had to do way more of the defensive stuff - at which he's not nearly as good - as would others around them. He's been every bit as important to the balance of our side as Xabi. It would be interesting to ask our opponents which of the two they'll be more relieved not to have to face. A pound to a penny says the answer wouldn't suit you, or those who agree with you, one little bit.
[/quote]
Chelsea identified Alonso as the man to stop when they beat us comfortably towards the end of last season. I think they were vindicated by the result.
Ryan is not remotely "correct", neither are you or the rest who've rushed in to call others clueless. Without Mascher beside him, Xabi would have had to do way more of the defensive stuff - at which he's not nearly as good - as would others around them. He's been every bit as important to the balance of our side as Xabi. It would be interesting to ask our opponents which of the two they'll be more relieved not to have to face. A pound to a penny says the answer wouldn't suit you, or those who agree with you, one little bit.
[/quote]
Chelsea identified Alonso as the man to stop when they beat us comfortably towards the end of last season. I think they were vindicated by the result.
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=34999.msg915871#msg915871 date=1249044139]
I think pitting Masher and Alonso against each other is a relatively pointless exercise. The point is that one is a rare breed of footballer while the other is the best at what he does. We could easily find a like-for-like replacement for Mascherano because defensive midfielders have become increasingly common. We may struggle to find someone who is as adept as Mascherano, but we wouldn't be short of options. Alonso, on the other hand, is not so replaceable. He is a Rolls Royce of a footballer and anyone who is even remotely comparable is a mainstay in their respective team and therefore unattainable.
In short, selling Alonso requires us to reconfigure our team, which as we know with Rafa, is a risky process. Selling Mascherano would not. I think that is the crux of it really.
[/quote]
Everything you say about Xabi applies at least as much, if not more, to Mascher. I don't see the increasing numbers of DMs you claim are out there and, even if we were to find one, you yourself admit they're not going to be as good. The discussions about who would replace each of them have named possible alternatives for Xabi but none for Mascher. QED.
As for the Chelsea game, Hiddink said in an interview that a key factor was closing Stevie down. I don't recall him saying anything comparable about Xabi. I do however recall one of the Tottenham players (may have been Ledley King but I can't remember exactly) singling Mascherano out as a player "everyone" hated to see in the Liverpool line-up.
I think pitting Masher and Alonso against each other is a relatively pointless exercise. The point is that one is a rare breed of footballer while the other is the best at what he does. We could easily find a like-for-like replacement for Mascherano because defensive midfielders have become increasingly common. We may struggle to find someone who is as adept as Mascherano, but we wouldn't be short of options. Alonso, on the other hand, is not so replaceable. He is a Rolls Royce of a footballer and anyone who is even remotely comparable is a mainstay in their respective team and therefore unattainable.
In short, selling Alonso requires us to reconfigure our team, which as we know with Rafa, is a risky process. Selling Mascherano would not. I think that is the crux of it really.
[/quote]
Everything you say about Xabi applies at least as much, if not more, to Mascher. I don't see the increasing numbers of DMs you claim are out there and, even if we were to find one, you yourself admit they're not going to be as good. The discussions about who would replace each of them have named possible alternatives for Xabi but none for Mascher. QED.
As for the Chelsea game, Hiddink said in an interview that a key factor was closing Stevie down. I don't recall him saying anything comparable about Xabi. I do however recall one of the Tottenham players (may have been Ledley King but I can't remember exactly) singling Mascherano out as a player "everyone" hated to see in the Liverpool line-up.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34999.msg915878#msg915878 date=1249045670]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=34999.msg915871#msg915871 date=1249044139]
I think pitting Masher and Alonso against each other is a relatively pointless exercise. The point is that one is a rare breed of footballer while the other is the best at what he does. We could easily find a like-for-like replacement for Mascherano because defensive midfielders have become increasingly common. We may struggle to find someone who is as adept as Mascherano, but we wouldn't be short of options. Alonso, on the other hand, is not so replaceable. He is a Rolls Royce of a footballer and anyone who is even remotely comparable is a mainstay in their respective team and therefore unattainable.
In short, selling Alonso requires us to reconfigure our team, which as we know with Rafa, is a risky process. Selling Mascherano would not. I think that is the crux of it really.
[/quote]
Everything you say about Xabi applies at least as much, if not more, to Mascher. I don't see the increasing numbers of DMs you claim are out there and, even if we were to find one, you yourself admit they're not going to be as good. The discussions about who would replace each of them have named possible alternatives for Xabi but none for Mascher. QED.
As for the Chelsea game, Hiddink said in an interview that a key factor was closing Stevie down. I don't recall him saying anything comparable about Xabi. I do however recall one of the Tottenham players (may have been Ledley King but I can't remember exactly) singling Mascherano out as a player "everyone" hated to see in the Liverpool line-up.
[/quote]
It's a given that teams have to stop Gerrrard. If you watch the game closely though, you can see that much ot the focus is on breaking us down early. Cutting us off at the source. if you will. Alonso was pretty much marked out of the game. I can't remember which player it was who commented on their instructions but I definitely read it somewhere.
Anyway, that's a side issue.
Forgive me, but I can't be arsed to compile lists of like-for-like (which was the point I was making) replacements for each player. Suffice to say I could compile a lot longer one for Masher than I could Alonso. (Aquilani and the like do not count as they are not like-for-like replacements.) If I were then to remove the players from those lists who are unattainable then there wouldn't be ANYONE left who could come in and replicate what Alonso does. On the other hand, there are many players out there who do what Mascherano does to almost the same level. There are also a number who do what he does and a lot more besides.
The point I'm making is that removing one disrupts the WAY we play. Mascherano is not key to our formation or how we play the game. He's just excellent at what he does. Alonso is excellent at what he does, but he is also pivotal to how we play. He is the conductor of the orchestrar.
I didn't want to get into this discussion becuase it means trying to pick the bones out of superb players. Both are fantastic, but losing one requires a change in personnel, while losing the other requires a change in philosophy. I guess it's down to personal opinion what people feel is the bigger risk but on the evidence I've seen, I'm a lot more comfortable with sticking to a style and formation that took the best part of four years to settle on, than I am with further experimentation. As many have pointed out already - it could end up being a positive change, and for that reason I'm excited, but I'm also incredibly apprehensive because it could just as easily go the other way.
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=34999.msg915871#msg915871 date=1249044139]
I think pitting Masher and Alonso against each other is a relatively pointless exercise. The point is that one is a rare breed of footballer while the other is the best at what he does. We could easily find a like-for-like replacement for Mascherano because defensive midfielders have become increasingly common. We may struggle to find someone who is as adept as Mascherano, but we wouldn't be short of options. Alonso, on the other hand, is not so replaceable. He is a Rolls Royce of a footballer and anyone who is even remotely comparable is a mainstay in their respective team and therefore unattainable.
In short, selling Alonso requires us to reconfigure our team, which as we know with Rafa, is a risky process. Selling Mascherano would not. I think that is the crux of it really.
[/quote]
Everything you say about Xabi applies at least as much, if not more, to Mascher. I don't see the increasing numbers of DMs you claim are out there and, even if we were to find one, you yourself admit they're not going to be as good. The discussions about who would replace each of them have named possible alternatives for Xabi but none for Mascher. QED.
As for the Chelsea game, Hiddink said in an interview that a key factor was closing Stevie down. I don't recall him saying anything comparable about Xabi. I do however recall one of the Tottenham players (may have been Ledley King but I can't remember exactly) singling Mascherano out as a player "everyone" hated to see in the Liverpool line-up.
[/quote]
It's a given that teams have to stop Gerrrard. If you watch the game closely though, you can see that much ot the focus is on breaking us down early. Cutting us off at the source. if you will. Alonso was pretty much marked out of the game. I can't remember which player it was who commented on their instructions but I definitely read it somewhere.
Anyway, that's a side issue.
Forgive me, but I can't be arsed to compile lists of like-for-like (which was the point I was making) replacements for each player. Suffice to say I could compile a lot longer one for Masher than I could Alonso. (Aquilani and the like do not count as they are not like-for-like replacements.) If I were then to remove the players from those lists who are unattainable then there wouldn't be ANYONE left who could come in and replicate what Alonso does. On the other hand, there are many players out there who do what Mascherano does to almost the same level. There are also a number who do what he does and a lot more besides.
The point I'm making is that removing one disrupts the WAY we play. Mascherano is not key to our formation or how we play the game. He's just excellent at what he does. Alonso is excellent at what he does, but he is also pivotal to how we play. He is the conductor of the orchestrar.
I didn't want to get into this discussion becuase it means trying to pick the bones out of superb players. Both are fantastic, but losing one requires a change in personnel, while losing the other requires a change in philosophy. I guess it's down to personal opinion what people feel is the bigger risk but on the evidence I've seen, I'm a lot more comfortable with sticking to a style and formation that took the best part of four years to settle on, than I am with further experimentation. As many have pointed out already - it could end up being a positive change, and for that reason I'm excited, but I'm also incredibly apprehensive because it could just as easily go the other way.
I couldn't agree more about not wanting to change our style. That's EXACTLY why I'm desperate for Mascher to stay, and it continues to surprise me that some sensible football-watchers like you can't seem to see the extent of the change which Mascher's departure would force on us. He's so damn good at what he does that it frees others - notably Xabi himself - to play in the style to which you draw attention.
Without Mascher (and it has to be he, as there simply isn't another one as good out there) everyone, but everyone is going to have to take on more of the hard defensive graft that, at present, Mascher sorts for them. In that event I can't see how we'll be able to avoid a change of style, with so many players who currently can bomb forward (in the certain knowledge that Mascher will be there behind them taking care of business) simply not able to play with such freedom any more.
Without Mascher (and it has to be he, as there simply isn't another one as good out there) everyone, but everyone is going to have to take on more of the hard defensive graft that, at present, Mascher sorts for them. In that event I can't see how we'll be able to avoid a change of style, with so many players who currently can bomb forward (in the certain knowledge that Mascher will be there behind them taking care of business) simply not able to play with such freedom any more.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34999.msg915888#msg915888 date=1249047689]
I couldn't agree more about not wanting to change our style. That's EXACTLY why I'm desperate for Mascher to stay, and it continues to surprise me that some sensible football-watchers like you can't seem to see the extent of the change which Mascher's departure would force on us. He's so damn good at what he does that it frees others - notably Xabi himself - to play in the style to which you draw attention.
Without Mascher (and it has to be he, as there simply isn't another one as good out there) everyone, but everyone is going to have to take on more of the hard defensive graft that, at present, Mascher sorts for them. In that event I can't see how we'll be able to avoid a change of style, with so many players who currently can bomb forward (in the certain knowledge that Mascher will be there behind them taking care of business) simply not able to play with such freedom any more.
[/quote]
That's a little patronising JJ. I consider your viewpoint equally baffling.
You seem to be under the impression that our defence require baby-sitting. A defensive midfielder is there to plug the gaps, break up attacks, support the defence. That doesn't mean we can't rely on the defence to do their job from time to time. There are plenty of combative midfielders out there who could slot into our team without requiring too much tinkering.
Anyway, like I said, I'm not in the habit of denigrating our star players so I won't labour the point. I don't think we're going to agree.
I couldn't agree more about not wanting to change our style. That's EXACTLY why I'm desperate for Mascher to stay, and it continues to surprise me that some sensible football-watchers like you can't seem to see the extent of the change which Mascher's departure would force on us. He's so damn good at what he does that it frees others - notably Xabi himself - to play in the style to which you draw attention.
Without Mascher (and it has to be he, as there simply isn't another one as good out there) everyone, but everyone is going to have to take on more of the hard defensive graft that, at present, Mascher sorts for them. In that event I can't see how we'll be able to avoid a change of style, with so many players who currently can bomb forward (in the certain knowledge that Mascher will be there behind them taking care of business) simply not able to play with such freedom any more.
[/quote]
That's a little patronising JJ. I consider your viewpoint equally baffling.
You seem to be under the impression that our defence require baby-sitting. A defensive midfielder is there to plug the gaps, break up attacks, support the defence. That doesn't mean we can't rely on the defence to do their job from time to time. There are plenty of combative midfielders out there who could slot into our team without requiring too much tinkering.
Anyway, like I said, I'm not in the habit of denigrating our star players so I won't labour the point. I don't think we're going to agree.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34999.msg915888#msg915888 date=1249047689]
I couldn't agree more about not wanting to change our style. That's EXACTLY why I'm desperate for Mascher to stay, and it continues to surprise me that some sensible football-watchers like you can't seem to see the extent of the change which Mascher's departure would force on us. He's so damn good at what he does that it frees others - notably Xabi himself - to play in the style to which you draw attention.
Without Mascher (and it has to be he, as there simply isn't another one as good out there) everyone, but everyone is going to have to take on more of the hard defensive graft that, at present, Mascher sorts for them. In that event I can't see how we'll be able to avoid a change of style, with so many players who currently can bomb forward (in the certain knowledge that Mascher will be there behind them taking care of business) simply not able to play with such freedom any more.
[/quote]
That sounds about right to me JJ.
I couldn't agree more about not wanting to change our style. That's EXACTLY why I'm desperate for Mascher to stay, and it continues to surprise me that some sensible football-watchers like you can't seem to see the extent of the change which Mascher's departure would force on us. He's so damn good at what he does that it frees others - notably Xabi himself - to play in the style to which you draw attention.
Without Mascher (and it has to be he, as there simply isn't another one as good out there) everyone, but everyone is going to have to take on more of the hard defensive graft that, at present, Mascher sorts for them. In that event I can't see how we'll be able to avoid a change of style, with so many players who currently can bomb forward (in the certain knowledge that Mascher will be there behind them taking care of business) simply not able to play with such freedom any more.
[/quote]
That sounds about right to me JJ.
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=34999.msg915894#msg915894 date=1249048602]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34999.msg915888#msg915888 date=1249047689]
I couldn't agree more about not wanting to change our style. That's EXACTLY why I'm desperate for Mascher to stay, and it continues to surprise me that some sensible football-watchers like you can't seem to see the extent of the change which Mascher's departure would force on us. He's so damn good at what he does that it frees others - notably Xabi himself - to play in the style to which you draw attention.
Without Mascher (and it has to be he, as there simply isn't another one as good out there) everyone, but everyone is going to have to take on more of the hard defensive graft that, at present, Mascher sorts for them. In that event I can't see how we'll be able to avoid a change of style, with so many players who currently can bomb forward (in the certain knowledge that Mascher will be there behind them taking care of business) simply not able to play with such freedom any more.
[/quote]
That's a little patronising JJ. I consider your viewpoint equally baffling.
You seem to be under the impression that our defence require baby-sitting. A defensive midfielder is there to plug the gaps, break up attacks, support the defence. That doesn't mean we can't rely on the defence to do their job from time to time. There are plenty of combative midfielders out there who could slot into our team without requiring too much tinkering.
Anyway, like I said, I'm not in the habit of denigrating our star players so I won't labour the point. I don't think we're going to agree.
[/quote]
Sorry if you feel I was being patronising. My intention was the opposite. Maybe insults have become so commonplace on here that it's too much of a change to try and be complimentary while disagreeing.
I haven't been saying or implying anything about our defence, so I don't know where you get that stuff about "babysitting" from. The point I've been making, and stand by, is that a DM as outstanding as Mascher lifts from our more attacking players' shoulders much of the responsibility they would otherwise have to share for supporting the defence, something you yourself recognise as necessary.
You go on to suggest that all those "combative midfielders" are much of a muchness. They aren't. For one thing few of them concentrate on defence as much as Mascher, and for another none of them are as good at it as he is. For both those reasons he's tailor-made for the 2 in Rafa's 4-2-3-1 system, the one you are rightly (if that's not patronising) so keen on keeping, in a way that others won't be. Rafa's dash to London to sign him up in the first place suggests he might be on my side on this one.
So no, we're not going to agree. If Mascher does go, though, I just hope you turn out to be right.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34999.msg915888#msg915888 date=1249047689]
I couldn't agree more about not wanting to change our style. That's EXACTLY why I'm desperate for Mascher to stay, and it continues to surprise me that some sensible football-watchers like you can't seem to see the extent of the change which Mascher's departure would force on us. He's so damn good at what he does that it frees others - notably Xabi himself - to play in the style to which you draw attention.
Without Mascher (and it has to be he, as there simply isn't another one as good out there) everyone, but everyone is going to have to take on more of the hard defensive graft that, at present, Mascher sorts for them. In that event I can't see how we'll be able to avoid a change of style, with so many players who currently can bomb forward (in the certain knowledge that Mascher will be there behind them taking care of business) simply not able to play with such freedom any more.
[/quote]
That's a little patronising JJ. I consider your viewpoint equally baffling.
You seem to be under the impression that our defence require baby-sitting. A defensive midfielder is there to plug the gaps, break up attacks, support the defence. That doesn't mean we can't rely on the defence to do their job from time to time. There are plenty of combative midfielders out there who could slot into our team without requiring too much tinkering.
Anyway, like I said, I'm not in the habit of denigrating our star players so I won't labour the point. I don't think we're going to agree.
[/quote]
Sorry if you feel I was being patronising. My intention was the opposite. Maybe insults have become so commonplace on here that it's too much of a change to try and be complimentary while disagreeing.
I haven't been saying or implying anything about our defence, so I don't know where you get that stuff about "babysitting" from. The point I've been making, and stand by, is that a DM as outstanding as Mascher lifts from our more attacking players' shoulders much of the responsibility they would otherwise have to share for supporting the defence, something you yourself recognise as necessary.
You go on to suggest that all those "combative midfielders" are much of a muchness. They aren't. For one thing few of them concentrate on defence as much as Mascher, and for another none of them are as good at it as he is. For both those reasons he's tailor-made for the 2 in Rafa's 4-2-3-1 system, the one you are rightly (if that's not patronising) so keen on keeping, in a way that others won't be. Rafa's dash to London to sign him up in the first place suggests he might be on my side on this one.
So no, we're not going to agree. If Mascher does go, though, I just hope you turn out to be right.
Well if Masher goes as well, then neither of us will be vindicated as they'll both be gone and it'll be impossible to judge the impact of their losses individually. I think we can both agree that that would be disastrous though.
I was just pointing out that while Masher is just about the best at what he does, there are a number of other superb defensive midfielders operating in other leagues, who could come in and perform the same role. A new role would have to be created if Alonso leaves, and it could very well mean a step away from the 4-2-3-1 formation which is what concerns me. As has been mentioned though, that could turn out to be a positive thing - you just never know.
I was just pointing out that while Masher is just about the best at what he does, there are a number of other superb defensive midfielders operating in other leagues, who could come in and perform the same role. A new role would have to be created if Alonso leaves, and it could very well mean a step away from the 4-2-3-1 formation which is what concerns me. As has been mentioned though, that could turn out to be a positive thing - you just never know.
Crikey lads, lets drope the 'is a cunt' and 'hasnt a fucking clue' lark, lets have some reasoned debate 😉
From a personal point of view, I have a 'Biscan-kinda-love' for Mascher, he's my favourite player because I love his ethic.
Leaving all that aside, if both players were the same age then I would prefer Alonso. Its been muted before that its easier to find someone that can stop play than someone that can dictate play with his distribution. I agree whole-heartedly with that statement.
Alonso is one of the finest midfield player makers in the world.
Mascher is one of the finest defensive midfielders in the world.
They are both on a par in terms of quality in their position so I'd pick the playmaker.
However Mascher is almost 3 years younger, so there is the question valuation.
On the other hand Given how close we are to the title, the next year or two are vital and Alonso will be by no means past-it in those 2 years.
Ultimately, I'd sacrifice Mascherano for the chance of keeping Xabi for the next 2-3 years and drive at that title. Mascherano is massive in Europe and the big games but we play 17 other teams in the Premiership and Alonso will help open them up to take all those 3-pointers.
From a personal point of view, I have a 'Biscan-kinda-love' for Mascher, he's my favourite player because I love his ethic.
Leaving all that aside, if both players were the same age then I would prefer Alonso. Its been muted before that its easier to find someone that can stop play than someone that can dictate play with his distribution. I agree whole-heartedly with that statement.
Alonso is one of the finest midfield player makers in the world.
Mascher is one of the finest defensive midfielders in the world.
They are both on a par in terms of quality in their position so I'd pick the playmaker.
However Mascher is almost 3 years younger, so there is the question valuation.
On the other hand Given how close we are to the title, the next year or two are vital and Alonso will be by no means past-it in those 2 years.
Ultimately, I'd sacrifice Mascherano for the chance of keeping Xabi for the next 2-3 years and drive at that title. Mascherano is massive in Europe and the big games but we play 17 other teams in the Premiership and Alonso will help open them up to take all those 3-pointers.
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=34999.msg915872#msg915872 date=1249044285]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34999.msg915776#msg915776 date=1249035156]
Ryan is not remotely "correct", neither are you or the rest who've rushed in to call others clueless. Without Mascher beside him, Xabi would have had to do way more of the defensive stuff - at which he's not nearly as good - as would others around them. He's been every bit as important to the balance of our side as Xabi. It would be interesting to ask our opponents which of the two they'll be more relieved not to have to face. A pound to a penny says the answer wouldn't suit you, or those who agree with you, one little bit.
[/quote]
Chelsea identified Alonso as the man to stop when they beat us comfortably towards the end of last season. I think they were vindicated by the result.
[/quote]
Was that the game that they man marked Gerrard for 180 minutes?
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34999.msg915776#msg915776 date=1249035156]
Ryan is not remotely "correct", neither are you or the rest who've rushed in to call others clueless. Without Mascher beside him, Xabi would have had to do way more of the defensive stuff - at which he's not nearly as good - as would others around them. He's been every bit as important to the balance of our side as Xabi. It would be interesting to ask our opponents which of the two they'll be more relieved not to have to face. A pound to a penny says the answer wouldn't suit you, or those who agree with you, one little bit.
[/quote]
Chelsea identified Alonso as the man to stop when they beat us comfortably towards the end of last season. I think they were vindicated by the result.
[/quote]
Was that the game that they man marked Gerrard for 180 minutes?
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=34999.msg915991#msg915991 date=1249065786]
One is an athlete.
The other is a footballer.
We need more footballers in this side.
Bye bye Mascherano,
End of.
[/quote]
you could use a breathmint.
One is an athlete.
The other is a footballer.
We need more footballers in this side.
Bye bye Mascherano,
End of.
[/quote]
you could use a breathmint.
[quote author=barrymac20 link=topic=34999.msg915983#msg915983 date=1249065136]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=34999.msg915872#msg915872 date=1249044285]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34999.msg915776#msg915776 date=1249035156]
Ryan is not remotely "correct", neither are you or the rest who've rushed in to call others clueless. Without Mascher beside him, Xabi would have had to do way more of the defensive stuff - at which he's not nearly as good - as would others around them. He's been every bit as important to the balance of our side as Xabi. It would be interesting to ask our opponents which of the two they'll be more relieved not to have to face. A pound to a penny says the answer wouldn't suit you, or those who agree with you, one little bit.
[/quote]
Chelsea identified Alonso as the man to stop when they beat us comfortably towards the end of last season. I think they were vindicated by the result.
[/quote]
Was that the game that they man marked Gerrard for 180 minutes?
[/quote]
Errr... no. If you're referring to the Champions League double-header then Gerrard only played the first game, remember? He was well marshalled by Essien, as was Xabi in the second.
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=34999.msg915872#msg915872 date=1249044285]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34999.msg915776#msg915776 date=1249035156]
Ryan is not remotely "correct", neither are you or the rest who've rushed in to call others clueless. Without Mascher beside him, Xabi would have had to do way more of the defensive stuff - at which he's not nearly as good - as would others around them. He's been every bit as important to the balance of our side as Xabi. It would be interesting to ask our opponents which of the two they'll be more relieved not to have to face. A pound to a penny says the answer wouldn't suit you, or those who agree with you, one little bit.
[/quote]
Chelsea identified Alonso as the man to stop when they beat us comfortably towards the end of last season. I think they were vindicated by the result.
[/quote]
Was that the game that they man marked Gerrard for 180 minutes?
[/quote]
Errr... no. If you're referring to the Champions League double-header then Gerrard only played the first game, remember? He was well marshalled by Essien, as was Xabi in the second.
I agree with Del. I think Masher is one of best, if not *the* best, at what he does... but it is easier to replace a defensive midfielder these days than a playmaker - there are far more DM's on the market. I don't really think that specific point can be disputed to be honest.
Well, it clearly can. Witness the number of debates that take place about it here and elsewhere, likewise the fact that specific names have been suggested as alternatives for Xabi but not for Mascher, which is no accident.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34999.msg916030#msg916030 date=1249070558]
Well, it clearly can. Witness the number of debates that take place about it here and elsewhere, likewise the fact that specific names have been suggested as alternatives for Xabi but not for Mascher, which is no accident.
[/quote]
I have witnessed those debates and most of the names put forward are not genuine candidates... unless you think the likes of Cattermole and Noble are playmakers in the mould of Alonso.
Like it or not, there are more DM's around right now.
Well, it clearly can. Witness the number of debates that take place about it here and elsewhere, likewise the fact that specific names have been suggested as alternatives for Xabi but not for Mascher, which is no accident.
[/quote]
I have witnessed those debates and most of the names put forward are not genuine candidates... unless you think the likes of Cattermole and Noble are playmakers in the mould of Alonso.
Like it or not, there are more DM's around right now.
Agree about Cattermole and Noble but Pirlo, Aquilani, Xavi and even the return of Gerrard to that position have also been mentioned, while alternatives to Mascher have been conspicuous by their absence. That's partly because not all DMs are the same and he's in a class of his own in that position, but it's also to do with the fact that the penny-in-the-slot assumption that there are more DMs simply doesn't stand up.
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=34999.msg916041#msg916041 date=1249073370]
To find a DM of the same quality as Mascher, will be just as difficult a task as finding Xabi's replacement.
It's crazy (imo) to think that it would be easy to replace Mascher.
[/quote]
You're missing the point. No-one is suggesting that Masher would be easy to replace.
What is being suggested is that there would be a much larger pool to choose from in his case, than in Alonso's. Furthermore, replacing Alonso would require us to change the way we play to accommodate his replacement, resulting in possible disruption to the team as it adjusts to the changes. A replacement for Masher would likely slot into our current system, without adversely affecting the way we play.
To find a DM of the same quality as Mascher, will be just as difficult a task as finding Xabi's replacement.
It's crazy (imo) to think that it would be easy to replace Mascher.
[/quote]
You're missing the point. No-one is suggesting that Masher would be easy to replace.
What is being suggested is that there would be a much larger pool to choose from in his case, than in Alonso's. Furthermore, replacing Alonso would require us to change the way we play to accommodate his replacement, resulting in possible disruption to the team as it adjusts to the changes. A replacement for Masher would likely slot into our current system, without adversely affecting the way we play.
as has been said by some there is only one DM in the world who I rate on a par, if not slightly better than Mascher and that is Yaya Toure - he is awesome.
Back to the question, I would rather have mascher than alonso
Back to the question, I would rather have mascher than alonso
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=34999.msg916045#msg916045 date=1249073882]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=34999.msg916041#msg916041 date=1249073370]
To find a DM of the same quality as Mascher, will be just as difficult a task as finding Xabi's replacement.
It's crazy (imo) to think that it would be easy to replace Mascher.
[/quote]
You're missing the point. No-one is suggesting that Masher would be easy to replace.
What is being suggested is that there would be a much larger pool to choose from in his case, than in Alonso's. Furthermore, replacing Alonso would require us to change the way we play to accommodate his replacement, resulting in possible disruption to the team as it adjusts to the changes. A replacement for Masher would likely slot into our current system, without adversely affecting the way we play.
[/quote]
I'm not mate.
Sorry Del i just don't think we would be selecting from a much larger pool of players. Who's out there that could do the job then iyo?
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=34999.msg916041#msg916041 date=1249073370]
To find a DM of the same quality as Mascher, will be just as difficult a task as finding Xabi's replacement.
It's crazy (imo) to think that it would be easy to replace Mascher.
[/quote]
You're missing the point. No-one is suggesting that Masher would be easy to replace.
What is being suggested is that there would be a much larger pool to choose from in his case, than in Alonso's. Furthermore, replacing Alonso would require us to change the way we play to accommodate his replacement, resulting in possible disruption to the team as it adjusts to the changes. A replacement for Masher would likely slot into our current system, without adversely affecting the way we play.
[/quote]
I'm not mate.
Sorry Del i just don't think we would be selecting from a much larger pool of players. Who's out there that could do the job then iyo?
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=34999.msg916049#msg916049 date=1249074073]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=34999.msg916045#msg916045 date=1249073882]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=34999.msg916041#msg916041 date=1249073370]
To find a DM of the same quality as Mascher, will be just as difficult a task as finding Xabi's replacement.
It's crazy (imo) to think that it would be easy to replace Mascher.
[/quote]
You're missing the point. No-one is suggesting that Masher would be easy to replace.
What is being suggested is that there would be a much larger pool to choose from in his case, than in Alonso's. Furthermore, replacing Alonso would require us to change the way we play to accommodate his replacement, resulting in possible disruption to the team as it adjusts to the changes. A replacement for Masher would likely slot into our current system, without adversely affecting the way we play.
[/quote]
I'm not mate.
Sorry Del i just don't think we would be selecting from a much larger pool of players. Who's out there that could do the job then iyo?
[/quote]Just give up mate. You're wasting your time.
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=34999.msg916045#msg916045 date=1249073882]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=34999.msg916041#msg916041 date=1249073370]
To find a DM of the same quality as Mascher, will be just as difficult a task as finding Xabi's replacement.
It's crazy (imo) to think that it would be easy to replace Mascher.
[/quote]
You're missing the point. No-one is suggesting that Masher would be easy to replace.
What is being suggested is that there would be a much larger pool to choose from in his case, than in Alonso's. Furthermore, replacing Alonso would require us to change the way we play to accommodate his replacement, resulting in possible disruption to the team as it adjusts to the changes. A replacement for Masher would likely slot into our current system, without adversely affecting the way we play.
[/quote]
I'm not mate.
Sorry Del i just don't think we would be selecting from a much larger pool of players. Who's out there that could do the job then iyo?
[/quote]Just give up mate. You're wasting your time.
- Status
