I thought Utd were finished when Mark Draper conspired to pillage them 3-1 at Villa Park, opening day '96 (?). I think that was the 'you win nothing with kids' year.
Man Utd Dominance about to end?
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Someone should make a vdeo compilation of the 11 times that fuckslur has raised the title.
And every year when someone talks about the end of their dominance, he should be strapped into a chair with his eyelids propped open and made to do A Clockwork Orange until he either becomes a drooling dribbling mess or vows never EVER to mention it again.
And every year when someone talks about the end of their dominance, he should be strapped into a chair with his eyelids propped open and made to do A Clockwork Orange until he either becomes a drooling dribbling mess or vows never EVER to mention it again.
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=38295.msg1028582#msg1028582 date=1262825649]
Someone should make a vdeo compilation of the 11 times that fuckslur has raised the title.
And every year when someone talks about the end of their dominance, he should be strapped into a chair with his eyelids propped open and made to do A Clockwork Orange until he either becomes a drooling dribbling mess or vows never EVER to mention it again.
[/quote]
*shudders violently*
Someone should make a vdeo compilation of the 11 times that fuckslur has raised the title.
And every year when someone talks about the end of their dominance, he should be strapped into a chair with his eyelids propped open and made to do A Clockwork Orange until he either becomes a drooling dribbling mess or vows never EVER to mention it again.
[/quote]
*shudders violently*
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=38295.msg1028591#msg1028591 date=1262826406]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=38295.msg1028582#msg1028582 date=1262825649]
Someone should make a vdeo compilation of the 11 times that fuckslur has raised the title.
And every year when someone talks about the end of their dominance, he should be strapped into a chair with his eyelids propped open and made to do A Clockwork Orange until he either becomes a drooling dribbling mess or vows never EVER to mention it again.
[/quote]
*shudders violently*
[/quote]
wow, menon has turned venom... ominous
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=38295.msg1028582#msg1028582 date=1262825649]
Someone should make a vdeo compilation of the 11 times that fuckslur has raised the title.
And every year when someone talks about the end of their dominance, he should be strapped into a chair with his eyelids propped open and made to do A Clockwork Orange until he either becomes a drooling dribbling mess or vows never EVER to mention it again.
[/quote]
*shudders violently*
[/quote]
wow, menon has turned venom... ominous
I've never been one to write United off but I think even the thought of the Clockwork-style punishment should put anyone off doing so.
How about we just win the title instead?
*looks at league table*
Oh.
*looks at league table*
Oh.
Well they are not going anywhere are they.
I think the best we can hope for is that they stick with Fergie for too long as he continues his desent into a delusional piss-stained old man.
Like Brian Clough in his later days at Forest.
Just waiting for the tell tale green sweater...
I think the best we can hope for is that they stick with Fergie for too long as he continues his desent into a delusional piss-stained old man.
Like Brian Clough in his later days at Forest.
Just waiting for the tell tale green sweater...
[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=38295.msg1028633#msg1028633 date=1262841354]
Well they are not going anywhere are they.
I think the best we can hope for is that they stick with Fergie for too long as he continues his desent into a delusional piss-stained old man.
Like Brian Clough in his later days at Forest.
Just waiting for the tell tale green sweater...
[/quote]
hahaha, green sweater.... hmmm
will a blue shirt and a buzzard do?
I knoe...... it is a discoloured hornbill.
Well they are not going anywhere are they.
I think the best we can hope for is that they stick with Fergie for too long as he continues his desent into a delusional piss-stained old man.
Like Brian Clough in his later days at Forest.
Just waiting for the tell tale green sweater...
[/quote]
hahaha, green sweater.... hmmm
will a blue shirt and a buzzard do?
I knoe...... it is a discoloured hornbill.
Hes clearly gone mad!
Hes taken to wearing a buzzard on his arm, yet the press still suck his balls and call them ice cream.
Hes taken to wearing a buzzard on his arm, yet the press still suck his balls and call them ice cream.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38295.msg1027775#msg1027775 date=1262775138]
[quote author=Tinto link=topic=38295.msg1027748#msg1027748 date=1262773725]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38295.msg1027730#msg1027730 date=1262772448]
The way I see it Tinto is United were weakened strongly this summer and they haven't collapsed in the same manner we have. Which is quite the achievement given they've lost two of the world's best attacking talents and bought it in an average winger from Wigan.
I'm talking about tactics, outlook, motivation, instilling self-belief. All other criteria from which managers can successfully be judged upon, but often get pushed aside whenever money is mentioned.
[/quote]
United still have the 2nd highest wage bill though and so, being 2nd is par for the course. Ferguson might still bring back the title for them this season but I wonder how they will do when City overtake them in salary spend and are hoarding more and more of the good players as City eventually will.
[/quote]
Chelsea arguably had and maybe even still have a better squad, and United are still giving them a run for their money, so the City spend is neither here nor there, teams will adapt, as they have with Chelsea. Everyone expected Chelsea dominance, and while no one can argue they've become a force, they haven't had it all their own way, they've just made the league and it's teams more competitive, which has been good for the league as a whole, particularly with regards to European dominance.
As Squiggs just said, the real test is Fergie's departure.
[/quote]
I think Ferguson has proved he's the critical factor. That manc squad is not even comparable, on paper, to the Chelsea one. I don't really think it compares too favourably to City or maybe even Spurs but they are a much better team than the latter two and a realistic threat to Chelsea.
So long as he's at the helm they'll be the team to beat or at least one of them.
[quote author=Tinto link=topic=38295.msg1027748#msg1027748 date=1262773725]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38295.msg1027730#msg1027730 date=1262772448]
The way I see it Tinto is United were weakened strongly this summer and they haven't collapsed in the same manner we have. Which is quite the achievement given they've lost two of the world's best attacking talents and bought it in an average winger from Wigan.
I'm talking about tactics, outlook, motivation, instilling self-belief. All other criteria from which managers can successfully be judged upon, but often get pushed aside whenever money is mentioned.
[/quote]
United still have the 2nd highest wage bill though and so, being 2nd is par for the course. Ferguson might still bring back the title for them this season but I wonder how they will do when City overtake them in salary spend and are hoarding more and more of the good players as City eventually will.
[/quote]
Chelsea arguably had and maybe even still have a better squad, and United are still giving them a run for their money, so the City spend is neither here nor there, teams will adapt, as they have with Chelsea. Everyone expected Chelsea dominance, and while no one can argue they've become a force, they haven't had it all their own way, they've just made the league and it's teams more competitive, which has been good for the league as a whole, particularly with regards to European dominance.
As Squiggs just said, the real test is Fergie's departure.
[/quote]
I think Ferguson has proved he's the critical factor. That manc squad is not even comparable, on paper, to the Chelsea one. I don't really think it compares too favourably to City or maybe even Spurs but they are a much better team than the latter two and a realistic threat to Chelsea.
So long as he's at the helm they'll be the team to beat or at least one of them.
What a load of fucking bollocks re: United's squad.
The purple-nosed cunt is a great manager, but to imply that his squad isn't a match for City! Fuck off. Like he's some kind of fucking football alchemist who can turn shit into trophies.
He's a brilliant manager, but he can still only produce when he has a squad of players good enough.
Look how ordinary they were when, Rooney and all, Chelsea's Mourinho blew away. There's been seasons when Chelsea, Arsenal and even Liverpool were superior
The purple-nosed cunt is a great manager, but to imply that his squad isn't a match for City! Fuck off. Like he's some kind of fucking football alchemist who can turn shit into trophies.
He's a brilliant manager, but he can still only produce when he has a squad of players good enough.
Look how ordinary they were when, Rooney and all, Chelsea's Mourinho blew away. There's been seasons when Chelsea, Arsenal and even Liverpool were superior
And I'd like this on record;
They won't win the title this year, it *is* the beginning of the end for Slur Alex and United's dominance
Ronaldo has not been replaced and they lack quality in midfield
Plus Vidic is off
They won't win the title this year, it *is* the beginning of the end for Slur Alex and United's dominance
Ronaldo has not been replaced and they lack quality in midfield
Plus Vidic is off
[quote author=Glock link=topic=38295.msg1028647#msg1028647 date=1262845885]
We should stop talking about Manure and concentrate more on chasing Rafa out of Liverpool.
[/quote]
Is this your opinion or Doc_Rules?
We should stop talking about Manure and concentrate more on chasing Rafa out of Liverpool.
[/quote]
Is this your opinion or Doc_Rules?
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38295.msg1028696#msg1028696 date=1262856596]
And I'd like this on record;
They won't win the title this year, it *is* the beginning of the end for Slur Alex and United's dominance
Ronaldo has not been replaced and they lack quality in midfield
Plus Vidic is off
[/quote]
Bravo for sticking out your neck Brendan.
(hopefully it will not be a jinxed prediction)
And I'd like this on record;
They won't win the title this year, it *is* the beginning of the end for Slur Alex and United's dominance
Ronaldo has not been replaced and they lack quality in midfield
Plus Vidic is off
[/quote]
Bravo for sticking out your neck Brendan.
(hopefully it will not be a jinxed prediction)
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38295.msg1028656#msg1028656 date=1262850139]
What a load of fucking bollocks re: United's squad.
The purple-nosed cunt is a great manager, but to imply that his squad isn't a match for City! Fuck off. Like he's some kind of fucking football alchemist who can turn shit into trophies.
He's a brilliant manager, but he can still only produce when he has a squad of players good enough.
Look how ordinary they were when, Rooney and all, Chelsea's Mourinho blew away. There's been seasons when Chelsea, Arsenal and even Liverpool were superior
[/quote]
Ha, the only real difference is Ronaldo has gone. Their midfield has been wank for ages and they've had almost nothing in reserve.
Ferguson has made a success of that team on the basis of Ronaldo/Rooney and a team philosophy that bully's other teams with their attacking intent.
You stack those individual players up against the Chelsea or Spurs or City squad and, one on one, they look to come up short. But put them on the pitch and they constantly get results - whether new faces step in or not.
I certainly couldn't be bothered arguing the merits of individual players but suffice to say I think in Mascher, Reina, Gerrard, Torres we have four players who would walk into their starting team with no questions asked. Additionally you could make arguments for Johnson, Carra and Agger to get on the pitch for them. From the other side I could see Rooney, Evra and Vidic being certain starters.
No doubt everyone would have their own opinions - we all know you do. But for me you stack those players beside one another - plus the bench - and you don't get an explanation of why they're playing like a title threat and we're playing like a top 10 team.
What a load of fucking bollocks re: United's squad.
The purple-nosed cunt is a great manager, but to imply that his squad isn't a match for City! Fuck off. Like he's some kind of fucking football alchemist who can turn shit into trophies.
He's a brilliant manager, but he can still only produce when he has a squad of players good enough.
Look how ordinary they were when, Rooney and all, Chelsea's Mourinho blew away. There's been seasons when Chelsea, Arsenal and even Liverpool were superior
[/quote]
Ha, the only real difference is Ronaldo has gone. Their midfield has been wank for ages and they've had almost nothing in reserve.
Ferguson has made a success of that team on the basis of Ronaldo/Rooney and a team philosophy that bully's other teams with their attacking intent.
You stack those individual players up against the Chelsea or Spurs or City squad and, one on one, they look to come up short. But put them on the pitch and they constantly get results - whether new faces step in or not.
I certainly couldn't be bothered arguing the merits of individual players but suffice to say I think in Mascher, Reina, Gerrard, Torres we have four players who would walk into their starting team with no questions asked. Additionally you could make arguments for Johnson, Carra and Agger to get on the pitch for them. From the other side I could see Rooney, Evra and Vidic being certain starters.
No doubt everyone would have their own opinions - we all know you do. But for me you stack those players beside one another - plus the bench - and you don't get an explanation of why they're playing like a title threat and we're playing like a top 10 team.
Great post. I agree with all that.
Our team currently adds up to less than the sum of its parts. Rafa has to take the blame for that.
Ferguson always gets that extra 10% out of his sides, simply because he is the best manager out there and commands that respect.
Thing is with Rafa you only need one or two cogs in the machine to be broken for it to grind to a hault, Ferguson has had worse squads than this one but always kept things ticking over and more often than not, winning.
I cant remember a United side that looked as clueless, confidence shaken and devoid of ideas as we have (on many occassions!) during the last 20 years.
Our team currently adds up to less than the sum of its parts. Rafa has to take the blame for that.
Ferguson always gets that extra 10% out of his sides, simply because he is the best manager out there and commands that respect.
Thing is with Rafa you only need one or two cogs in the machine to be broken for it to grind to a hault, Ferguson has had worse squads than this one but always kept things ticking over and more often than not, winning.
I cant remember a United side that looked as clueless, confidence shaken and devoid of ideas as we have (on many occassions!) during the last 20 years.
While only time will tell the effects on United of their economic situation and how the Glazers manage them, I actually think it's smart for them not to try to snatch everything on the market, get involved in too many bidding wars, etc. That kind of inflationary pressure will only hurt their economics long-term and this method, though it may mean they have the odd stretch where they go without major trophies, also ensures that they invest in youth (whether through the ranks or by purchasing from elsewhere) and avoid the "Galactico" syndrome.
As for the other point, their squad is very strong (you'd be mental not to admit it) but is not, man-for-man, the strongest around. However, they play with such conviction and chemistry that they consistently punch above their already formidable weight. It will be very difficult for Ferguson's successor to maintain that kind of spirit and attitude.
(I actually think we've had periods, albeit short ones and certainly not this season, where Rafa has instilled that same kind of character and style into our team. Unfortunately, we haven't been able to maintain the consistency required to reach the top. It's these periods [and a lack of superior alternatives] that give me pause when thinking about binning Benitez.)
As for the other point, their squad is very strong (you'd be mental not to admit it) but is not, man-for-man, the strongest around. However, they play with such conviction and chemistry that they consistently punch above their already formidable weight. It will be very difficult for Ferguson's successor to maintain that kind of spirit and attitude.
(I actually think we've had periods, albeit short ones and certainly not this season, where Rafa has instilled that same kind of character and style into our team. Unfortunately, we haven't been able to maintain the consistency required to reach the top. It's these periods [and a lack of superior alternatives] that give me pause when thinking about binning Benitez.)
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=38295.msg1029404#msg1029404 date=1262931307]
While only time will tell the effects on United of their economic situation and how the Glazers manage them, I actually think it's smart for them not to try to snatch everything on the market, get involved in too many bidding wars, etc. That kind of inflationary pressure will only hurt their economics long-term and this method, though it may mean they have the odd stretch where they go without major trophies, also ensures that they invest in youth (whether through the ranks or by purchasing from elsewhere) and avoid the "Galactico" syndrome.
As for the other point, their squad is very strong (you'd be mental not to admit it) but is not, man-for-man, the strongest around. However, they play with such conviction and chemistry that they consistently punch above their already formidable weight. It will be very difficult for Ferguson's successor to maintain that kind of spirit and attitude.
(I actually think we've had periods, albeit short ones and certainly not this season, where Rafa has instilled that same kind of character and style into our team. Unfortunately, we haven't been able to maintain the consistency required to reach the top. It's these periods [and a lack of superior alternatives] that give me pause when thinking about binning Benitez.)
[/quote]
Per your last paragraph, we did it for lengthy periods post Christmas last season.
This is the perplexity regarding Benitez for me; did we over achieve last season or are we under achieving this season? I think the squad of players we had last season was good but it performed even better than expected for lengthy periods and played some sensational football; the best football I've seen from a Liverpool team in 15 years. From that you could conclude that Rafa is therefore capable of getting the team playing at the level required for the title.
However, it's the only time he's done that in the league for a truly extended period of time. We've performed very well at times under Rafa but never as consistently as the 2nd half of last season. Can you say that he's therefore good enough or was it a one off where everything just worked?
While only time will tell the effects on United of their economic situation and how the Glazers manage them, I actually think it's smart for them not to try to snatch everything on the market, get involved in too many bidding wars, etc. That kind of inflationary pressure will only hurt their economics long-term and this method, though it may mean they have the odd stretch where they go without major trophies, also ensures that they invest in youth (whether through the ranks or by purchasing from elsewhere) and avoid the "Galactico" syndrome.
As for the other point, their squad is very strong (you'd be mental not to admit it) but is not, man-for-man, the strongest around. However, they play with such conviction and chemistry that they consistently punch above their already formidable weight. It will be very difficult for Ferguson's successor to maintain that kind of spirit and attitude.
(I actually think we've had periods, albeit short ones and certainly not this season, where Rafa has instilled that same kind of character and style into our team. Unfortunately, we haven't been able to maintain the consistency required to reach the top. It's these periods [and a lack of superior alternatives] that give me pause when thinking about binning Benitez.)
[/quote]
Per your last paragraph, we did it for lengthy periods post Christmas last season.
This is the perplexity regarding Benitez for me; did we over achieve last season or are we under achieving this season? I think the squad of players we had last season was good but it performed even better than expected for lengthy periods and played some sensational football; the best football I've seen from a Liverpool team in 15 years. From that you could conclude that Rafa is therefore capable of getting the team playing at the level required for the title.
However, it's the only time he's done that in the league for a truly extended period of time. We've performed very well at times under Rafa but never as consistently as the 2nd half of last season. Can you say that he's therefore good enough or was it a one off where everything just worked?
Though I've generally defended Rafa on here, I'd say he'll only finally have proven himself to be good enough if/when he brings the title back to Anfield. It's to his credit that he himself has now openly said as much.
IMO our line-up and form last season from the Real Madrid CL tie onwards were probably somewhere near what Rafa had always been working towards, and subsequent events (Alonso's exit, a cut-down transfer kitty, this season's injuries) have conspired against him. That said, this season's team selections and his apparent inability (and that of his coaching team) to reignite the players' confidence are his responsibility. For all Ferguson's dictatorial tendencies, he has also shown an ability to adapt to changing circumstances when the need to do so has been too great for him to brush aside in his usual way. Were Rafa's LFC career to end tomorrow I'd have to say that, with the glorious exception of Istanbul, an inability to similarly adapt had turned out to be his Achilles heel.
IMO our line-up and form last season from the Real Madrid CL tie onwards were probably somewhere near what Rafa had always been working towards, and subsequent events (Alonso's exit, a cut-down transfer kitty, this season's injuries) have conspired against him. That said, this season's team selections and his apparent inability (and that of his coaching team) to reignite the players' confidence are his responsibility. For all Ferguson's dictatorial tendencies, he has also shown an ability to adapt to changing circumstances when the need to do so has been too great for him to brush aside in his usual way. Were Rafa's LFC career to end tomorrow I'd have to say that, with the glorious exception of Istanbul, an inability to similarly adapt had turned out to be his Achilles heel.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=38295.msg1029406#msg1029406 date=1262934706]
Per your last paragraph, we did it for lengthy periods post Christmas last season.
This is the perplexity regarding Benitez for me; did we over achieve last season or are we under achieving this season? I think the squad of players we had last season was good but it performed even better than expected for lengthy periods and played some sensational football; the best football I've seen from a Liverpool team in 15 years. From that you could conclude that Rafa is therefore capable of getting the team playing at the level required for the title.
However, it's the only time he's done that in the league for a truly extended period of time. We've performed very well at times under Rafa but never as consistently as the 2nd half of last season. Can you say that he's therefore good enough or was it a one off where everything just worked?
[/quote]
That was the primary period I had in mind though there have been other, shorter, periods during his reign. As for the answer to your question: it's what keeps me up at night!
Per your last paragraph, we did it for lengthy periods post Christmas last season.
This is the perplexity regarding Benitez for me; did we over achieve last season or are we under achieving this season? I think the squad of players we had last season was good but it performed even better than expected for lengthy periods and played some sensational football; the best football I've seen from a Liverpool team in 15 years. From that you could conclude that Rafa is therefore capable of getting the team playing at the level required for the title.
However, it's the only time he's done that in the league for a truly extended period of time. We've performed very well at times under Rafa but never as consistently as the 2nd half of last season. Can you say that he's therefore good enough or was it a one off where everything just worked?
[/quote]
That was the primary period I had in mind though there have been other, shorter, periods during his reign. As for the answer to your question: it's what keeps me up at night!
I'd have thought a pharmacist could do better than that. 😉
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38295.msg1027702#msg1027702 date=1262770230]
It's all bollocks. United are and always will be (at least under Fergie) a massive force, even with a fairly average side they have the same footballing philosophy and it works everytime. Chelsea have come and shaken it up, but it hasn't stopped United winning the title a couple of times, and the same will go for City.
The main issue is for the likes of us who are on the fringe of things and proven to not be able to put up consistent, sustainable challenges for the title. The main competition now is on the fringe of the top four, with Villa, Spurs and City there or thereabouts and capable of beating anyone on their day. United will still be the ones in the hunt in April.
[/quote]
Man U have been poor in most games this season and only really played well twice: Spurs away and Wigan at home. Their football has been predictable, lacking invention and one-dimensional. Heaven help them if Rooney gets injured. He may be over-rated but he's carrying them on his own most weeks.
Their squad has never been thinner either. Leaving aside "the new Cantona" £30m+ Berbatov, if Rooney's injured they've got...er...Danny Wellbeck. This lad will not only not make the England squad for the World Cup as Ferguson laughably said, he'll never make the grade at Premier League level. Vidic may be ponderous and slow but Brown and Evans in the middle of their back four are laughably poor.
They always get outplayed by teams that play good football and they will keep dropping points and will not challenge for the title and may well yet struggle to make 4th place.
Watch this space
It's all bollocks. United are and always will be (at least under Fergie) a massive force, even with a fairly average side they have the same footballing philosophy and it works everytime. Chelsea have come and shaken it up, but it hasn't stopped United winning the title a couple of times, and the same will go for City.
The main issue is for the likes of us who are on the fringe of things and proven to not be able to put up consistent, sustainable challenges for the title. The main competition now is on the fringe of the top four, with Villa, Spurs and City there or thereabouts and capable of beating anyone on their day. United will still be the ones in the hunt in April.
[/quote]
Man U have been poor in most games this season and only really played well twice: Spurs away and Wigan at home. Their football has been predictable, lacking invention and one-dimensional. Heaven help them if Rooney gets injured. He may be over-rated but he's carrying them on his own most weeks.
Their squad has never been thinner either. Leaving aside "the new Cantona" £30m+ Berbatov, if Rooney's injured they've got...er...Danny Wellbeck. This lad will not only not make the England squad for the World Cup as Ferguson laughably said, he'll never make the grade at Premier League level. Vidic may be ponderous and slow but Brown and Evans in the middle of their back four are laughably poor.
They always get outplayed by teams that play good football and they will keep dropping points and will not challenge for the title and may well yet struggle to make 4th place.
Watch this space
[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=38295.msg1029394#msg1029394 date=1262924148]
Great post. I agree with all that.
Our team currently adds up to less than the sum of its parts. Rafa has to take the blame for that.
Ferguson always gets that extra 10% out of his sides, simply because he is the best manager out there and commands that respect.
Thing is with Rafa you only need one or two cogs in the machine to be broken for it to grind to a hault, Ferguson has had worse squads than this one but always kept things ticking over and more often than not, winning.
I cant remember a United side that looked as clueless, confidence shaken and devoid of ideas as we have (on many occassions!) during the last 20 years.
[/quote]
You clearly didn't get to see our last three games against them then presumably? And you appeared to have also missed their laughable performance against Third Division Leeds last weekend
Great post. I agree with all that.
Our team currently adds up to less than the sum of its parts. Rafa has to take the blame for that.
Ferguson always gets that extra 10% out of his sides, simply because he is the best manager out there and commands that respect.
Thing is with Rafa you only need one or two cogs in the machine to be broken for it to grind to a hault, Ferguson has had worse squads than this one but always kept things ticking over and more often than not, winning.
I cant remember a United side that looked as clueless, confidence shaken and devoid of ideas as we have (on many occassions!) during the last 20 years.
[/quote]
You clearly didn't get to see our last three games against them then presumably? And you appeared to have also missed their laughable performance against Third Division Leeds last weekend
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