Malaysia vs Liverpool

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46130.msg1366369#msg1366369 date=1310905340]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46130.msg1366367#msg1366367 date=1310905239]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46130.msg1366363#msg1366363 date=1310904982]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46130.msg1366358#msg1366358 date=1310904488]
He's not our best midfielder bar Gerrard.

Stop typing such utter fucking shite.
[/quote]

I missed where it said that, but he has the ability to be our next best creative midfielder behind Gerrard. Who else is there? Lucas, Adam and Ming bring different qualities to the side.

It's pretty clear you don't rate the lad, but don't exaggerate the truth, we all know that Rafa struggled to get him into the team and Roy sent him on loan, I wouldn't put much emphasis on that though, it's not like either of them were infallible when it came to decision making. When he did play he showed he had quality, all this talk about him being too lightweight for Premiership is bollocks based on him being injury prone, when he came into the side he settled in after a couple of games and played well.
[/quote]

mark, it is based on him shitting out of tackles, which for a CM is a...problem.
[/quote]

When he came into the side under Rafa he ended up playing the advanced role, it's not an issue if the system is right. He's no more a shithouse than the likes of Garcia were and he certainly can't be any worse than Harry Kewell was on that note, we've got enough steel in the side for it to not be a major issue.
[/quote]

to be fair he is no worse than meireles in this regard.

 

[Gary25]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46130.msg1366365#msg1366365 date=1310905147]
my worry is less about carroll and more the defenders who will use him as an excuse to hoof it. The defenders were picking passes yesterday but they were under almost no pressure.
[/quote]

It's his lack of movement and shocking touches that have me a touch worried. I know he's not a Tevez or Suarez, buzzing all over the place but a bit of a fucking movement and willingness to work defenders wouldn't go amiss, Andy.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46130.msg1366372#msg1366372 date=1310905470]
[quote author=the_dude link=topic=46130.msg1366366#msg1366366 date=1310905226]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46130.msg1366365#msg1366365 date=1310905147]
my worry is less about carroll and more the defenders who will use him as an excuse to hoof it. The defenders were picking passes yesterday but they were under almost no pressure.
[/quote]

if we get off to a good start this coming season, hopefully the whole team will be confident enough to not panic under pressure and pass it up the pitch
[/quote]

the odd diagonal ball is fine but when hoofs become a preferred method for distribution, that's a problem as you giving away possession and not allowing yourself to build momentum. it happened under crouch and it happened under heskey.
[/quote]

I doubt Kenny would let that happen Neil, his basic footballing principles are pass and move and I'm sure he'll let his players know if they're shirking his methods.

 

[Rosco]

Well he wasn't going to improve those at Glasto or wherever else he was drinking all summer .... what did you expect ?

 

[the_dude]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46130.msg1366372#msg1366372 date=1310905470]
[quote author=the_dude link=topic=46130.msg1366366#msg1366366 date=1310905226]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46130.msg1366365#msg1366365 date=1310905147]
my worry is less about carroll and more the defenders who will use him as an excuse to hoof it. The defenders were picking passes yesterday but they were under almost no pressure.
[/quote]

if we get off to a good start this coming season, hopefully the whole team will be confident enough to not panic under pressure and pass it up the pitch
[/quote]

the odd diagonal ball is fine but when hoofs become a preferred method for distribution, that's a problem as you giving away possession and not allowing yourself to build momentum. it happened under crouch and it happened under heskey.
[/quote]

yep. i do think that with our central midfield being stronger the defenders will have more options to play a passing game as opposed to just twatting it up the pitch. can see the likes of adam and gerrard coming deep to get the ball and carry it with them

 

[Modo]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46130.msg1366358#msg1366358 date=1310904488]
He's not our best midfielder bar Gerrard.

Stop typing such utter fucking shite.
[/quote]

I wrote that and I sincerely believe it's true and it's not based on his performance yesterday. I've rated him since he joined.
Getting rid of Aquilani because of Cole was IMO Hodgson's biggest mistake.

 

[OLD_Lewy]

aquamans suffering from downing syndrome - being underrated and overrated by many, he's not shite but he's not amazing either

i dont get the negativity towards jonjo, i almost deffo overrate him just because i have a gut feeling he'll be great for us in the future, but he's certainly not shown any reason to put him down, he makes some great passes and always gets stuck in when the opposition has the ball, and i dont think he's ever been in the in the bottom 50% of our team in regard to performances in game, whether thats because he's a decent player or cause we have lots of shite is a different matter

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46130.msg1366378#msg1366378 date=1310905687]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46130.msg1366372#msg1366372 date=1310905470]
[quote author=the_dude link=topic=46130.msg1366366#msg1366366 date=1310905226]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46130.msg1366365#msg1366365 date=1310905147]
my worry is less about carroll and more the defenders who will use him as an excuse to hoof it. The defenders were picking passes yesterday but they were under almost no pressure.
[/quote]

if we get off to a good start this coming season, hopefully the whole team will be confident enough to not panic under pressure and pass it up the pitch
[/quote]

the odd diagonal ball is fine but when hoofs become a preferred method for distribution, that's a problem as you giving away possession and not allowing yourself to build momentum. it happened under crouch and it happened under heskey.
[/quote]

I doubt Kenny would let that happen Neil, his basic footballing principles are pass and move and I'm sure he'll let his players know if they're shirking his methods.
[/quote]

well, we'll see...
this is one of the main reasons why I want agger to start over skrtel despite skrtel being stronger on the ball.

 

[spider-Neil]

not saying I rate aqua one way or the other but to be the second best midfielder after gerrard he'd have to be better than;

lucas
spearing
meireles
adam
jonjo

is he? he can't be far away

 

[doctor_mac]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46130.msg1366367#msg1366367 date=1310905239]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46130.msg1366363#msg1366363 date=1310904982]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46130.msg1366358#msg1366358 date=1310904488]
He's not our best midfielder bar Gerrard.

Stop typing such utter fucking shite.
[/quote]

I missed where it said that, but he has the ability to be our next best creative midfielder behind Gerrard. Who else is there? Lucas, Adam and Ming bring different qualities to the side.

It's pretty clear you don't rate the lad, but don't exaggerate the truth, we all know that Rafa struggled to get him into the team and Roy sent him on loan, I wouldn't put much emphasis on that though, it's not like either of them were infallible when it came to decision making. When he did play he showed he had quality, all this talk about him being too lightweight for Premiership is bollocks based on him being injury prone, when he came into the side he settled in after a couple of games and played well.
[/quote]

mark, it is based on him shitting out of tackles, which for a CM is a...problem.
[/quote]

....Ming.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=46130.msg1366388#msg1366388 date=1310906227]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46130.msg1366367#msg1366367 date=1310905239]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46130.msg1366363#msg1366363 date=1310904982]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46130.msg1366358#msg1366358 date=1310904488]
He's not our best midfielder bar Gerrard.

Stop typing such utter fucking shite.
[/quote]

I missed where it said that, but he has the ability to be our next best creative midfielder behind Gerrard. Who else is there? Lucas, Adam and Ming bring different qualities to the side.

It's pretty clear you don't rate the lad, but don't exaggerate the truth, we all know that Rafa struggled to get him into the team and Roy sent him on loan, I wouldn't put much emphasis on that though, it's not like either of them were infallible when it came to decision making. When he did play he showed he had quality, all this talk about him being too lightweight for Premiership is bollocks based on him being injury prone, when he came into the side he settled in after a couple of games and played well.
[/quote]

mark, it is based on him shitting out of tackles, which for a CM is a...problem.
[/quote]

....Ming.
[/quote]

him too. it means you have to play a holding midfielder or risk being over run.

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=Modo link=topic=46130.msg1366382#msg1366382 date=1310905833]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46130.msg1366358#msg1366358 date=1310904488]
He's not our best midfielder bar Gerrard.

Stop typing such utter fucking shite.
[/quote]

I wrote that and I sincerely believe it's true and it's not based on his performance yesterday. I've rated him since he joined.
Getting rid of Aquilani because of Cole was IMO Hodgson's biggest mistake.
[/quote]

I can see why you said that. Aqua put on a midfield masterclass yesterday. If he can do that in the league, he can be our Xavi.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=46130.msg1366360#msg1366360 date=1310904568]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46130.msg1366358#msg1366358 date=1310904488]
He's not our best midfielder bar Gerrard.

Stop typing such utter fucking shite.
[/quote]

Who said he was?
[/quote]

Modo.

 

[spider-Neil]

if ming and aqua could tackle then you could think about dropping lucas and squeezing them into the side as it is I think kenny is going to go with lucas and adam to support gerrard (when he plays).

 

[FoxForceFive]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46130.msg1366328#msg1366328 date=1310900382]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=46130.msg1366276#msg1366276 date=1310893493]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=46130.msg1366275#msg1366275 date=1310893412]
For those worried that Aqua might actually be kept on with us, fear not, I think the offal gives a better impression of his future than Henry's tweets. He is barely mentioned despite a clear MOTM performance. It is all about Adam scoring and stuff.
[/quote]

Worried? I'm worried we'll get shut of him, if he stays he'll win us a lot of games.
[/quote]

Let's be honest here... You're basing this on a fanciful kickaround against a bunch of fucking Malaysians, cos not once over the last 6-12 months have you said the above.

[/quote]

I didn't even watch the friendly, I was on the train to Inverness at the time, so no, I'm not.

The end of that season he was playing fucking well, & I really liked the look of him, that's what I'm basing it on.

 

[kingjulian]

Some of you are going way over the top about Aquilani. He was near as good as Gerrard was, then Juventus would snap him up for the agreed price.

Yes, he can pick a pass and play well enough is the rest of the team is upto scratch. But i don't see how he is a better midfielder than Meireles for example. Meireles's short passing game is woefully underrated, and last season he proved that he can keep possession under pressure, because his touch is excellent and he has good turn of pace in short-bursts, all handy to have for a midfielder. His attacking game is more consistent than that of Aquilani's and both are equally shite at defending...so i don't see how some on here can claim that one is definitely better than the other. I'm not keen on who we hang on to, but i think there is only place for one inconsistent mercurial attacking talent in the squad and i prefer Meireles and can see where others are coming from when they say they prefer Aquilani. What i don't understand is how someone can conclude that he is the missing link or that he is so far ahead of other midfielders in terms creativity....what are we basing this on? Fancy backheels against Malaysia?

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46130.msg1366393#msg1366393 date=1310907525]
if ming and aqua could tackle then you could think about dropping lucas and squeezing them into the side as it is I think kenny is going to go with lucas and adam to support gerrard (when he plays).
[/quote]Aye, the tough tackling no nonsense Charlie Adam.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=46130.msg1366398#msg1366398 date=1310907993]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46130.msg1366393#msg1366393 date=1310907525]
if ming and aqua could tackle then you could think about dropping lucas and squeezing them into the side as it is I think kenny is going to go with lucas and adam to support gerrard (when he plays).
[/quote]Aye, the tough tackling no nonsense Charlie Adam.
[/quote]

I suspect he'll more willing to stick his boot in than aqua or ming

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46130.msg1366399#msg1366399 date=1310908129]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=46130.msg1366398#msg1366398 date=1310907993]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46130.msg1366393#msg1366393 date=1310907525]
if ming and aqua could tackle then you could think about dropping lucas and squeezing them into the side as it is I think kenny is going to go with lucas and adam to support gerrard (when he plays).
[/quote]Aye, the tough tackling no nonsense Charlie Adam.
[/quote]

I suspect he'll more willing to stick his boot in than aqua or ming
[/quote]Then i suspect you didnt watch much of Blackpool last season. Hes allergic to tracking back.
The reason i was ok with us signing Adam was because i believe we need an in the hole type of creator which he is, but if we keep Aquilani i just dont get it, as they are very similar but Aquilani is a much better version.
The comparison with Meireles is innacurate though as Meireles likes to burst into the box and be on the end of things, that has never been Aquilanis game. Aquilani plays like Silva/Xavi/Xabi not like Scholes or Gerrard.
We have 2 x players who play that way, Gerrard and Meireles, we have 2 x players who like to pick a pass and watch it unfold in Adam and Aquilani and we have 2 x players who will hold and break up play in Spearing and Lucas.
I dont see what the problem is in keeping all of them i guess.
Cole.......notsomuch.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=46130.msg1366403#msg1366403 date=1310908694]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46130.msg1366399#msg1366399 date=1310908129]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=46130.msg1366398#msg1366398 date=1310907993]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46130.msg1366393#msg1366393 date=1310907525]
if ming and aqua could tackle then you could think about dropping lucas and squeezing them into the side as it is I think kenny is going to go with lucas and adam to support gerrard (when he plays).
[/quote]Aye, the tough tackling no nonsense Charlie Adam.
[/quote]

I suspect he'll more willing to stick his boot in than aqua or ming
[/quote]Then i suspect you didnt watch much of Blackpool last season. Hes allergic to tracking back.
The reason i was ok with us signing Adam was because i believe we need an in the hole type of creator which he is, but if we keep Aquilani i just dont get it, as they are very similar but Aquilani is a much better version.
The comparison with Meireles is innacurate though as Meireles likes to burst into the box and be on the end of things, that has never been Aquilanis game. Aquilani plays like Silva/Xavi/Xabi not like Scholes or Gerrard.
We have 2 x players who play that way, Gerrard and Meireles, we have 2 x players who like to pick a pass and watch it unfold in Adam and Aquilani and we have 2 x players who will hold and break up play in Spearing and Lucas.
I dont see what the problem is in keeping all of them i guess.
Cole.......notsomuch.
[/quote]

I don't have a problem with them all staying but if a sale is stopping cissokho (for example) coming in then that's a problem as we have an excess of CM but no first choice left back.

 

[Oncy]

I would also add that i dont think its nescessary to have 2 x cm who get stuck in for most games.
Im happy to have
Keeper, Defense (4), Midfielder (1) = 6 players doing the BULK of our defending with
5 players trying to win games rather than stop us losing them.
Its not like they WONT work back and do a shift is it, they might not go for a blood and thunder slidey, but then how many of any GOOD teams front 5 do that?
As long as they are willing to work and do their bit for the team i dont care how many 50/50's Aquilani and Meireles shit out of, its not their role in the team. We might as well critiscise Carra for not getting enough Assists or Reina for lack of goals.

The one thing i will say is that i think (and this wont be popular) lucas is going to be absolute key for us this year.
So much will hinge on him.
Luckily i think he's well up for it.

 

[OLD_Lewy]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=46130.msg1366405#msg1366405 date=1310909648]
I would also add that i dont think its nescessary to have 2 x cm who get stuck in for most games.
Im happy to have
Keeper, Defense (4), Midfielder (1) = 6 players doing the BULK of our defending with
5 players trying to win games rather than stop us losing them.
Its not like they WONT work back and do a shift is it, they might not go for a blood and thunder slidey, but then how many of any GOOD teams front 5 do that?
As long as they are willing to work and do their bit for the team i dont care how many 50/50's Aquilani and Meireles shit out of, its not their role in the team. We might as well critiscise Carra for not getting enough Assists or Reina for lack of goals.

The one thing i will say is that i think (and this wont be popular) lucas is going to be absolute key for us this year.
So much will hinge on him.
Luckily i think he's well up for it.
[/quote]

i agree that we dont need a defensive midfielder all the time, i think it does depend on our opposition though

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Lewy link=topic=46130.msg1366406#msg1366406 date=1310909925]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=46130.msg1366405#msg1366405 date=1310909648]
I would also add that i dont think its nescessary to have 2 x cm who get stuck in for most games.
Im happy to have
Keeper, Defense (4), Midfielder (1) = 6 players doing the BULK of our defending with
5 players trying to win games rather than stop us losing them.
Its not like they WONT work back and do a shift is it, they might not go for a blood and thunder slidey, but then how many of any GOOD teams front 5 do that?
As long as they are willing to work and do their bit for the team i dont care how many 50/50's Aquilani and Meireles shit out of, its not their role in the team. We might as well critiscise Carra for not getting enough Assists or Reina for lack of goals.

The one thing i will say is that i think (and this wont be popular) lucas is going to be absolute key for us this year.
So much will hinge on him.
Luckily i think he's well up for it.
[/quote]

i agree that we dont need a defensive midfielder all the time, i think it does depend on our opposition though
[/quote]Away at Everton, United, Spurs, Chelsea.......thats it.

 

[Judge Jules]

Important games though. Not much mileage in doing better against midtable or lesser sides if we start dropping extra points against the big boys instead.

 

[DHSC]

We did well in most of those matches with Lucas as a DM though Jules. Perhaps Kenny's not prioritising signing a DM because we are not in Europe this season where having one would be necessary?

 

[Judge Jules]

That's one possibility certainly, but I think it's more likely that he wants to shift away from a specialist DM and have everybody doing a bit of everything in midfield, as others have said.

That's fine if your midfield players are of sufficient quality, which in our case means "of sufficient quality to play regularly for a team with title ambitions". Time will tell whether even the new improved Lucas fits that description.

 

[Fabio]

Lucas is turning into a makelele. Does his job quietly and efficiently. Considering his previous predilection for attacking play, his adaptation I'd highly commendable. I think this season will be the making of the lad as a guaranteed deserved starter

 

[Woland]

God I hope not.

 

[spider-Neil]

if we go into matches without a dedicated holding midfielder, WHEN we start to get overrun you'll be begging for the return of lucas. imho our CB are not equipped to deal with attacks with a minium of protection.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=Krump link=topic=46130.msg1366436#msg1366436 date=1310917020]
God I hope not.
[/quote]

Preach on brother Krump!