Malaysia vs Liverpool

[doctor_mac]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=46130.msg1366276#msg1366276 date=1310893493]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=46130.msg1366275#msg1366275 date=1310893412]
For those worried that Aqua might actually be kept on with us, fear not, I think the offal gives a better impression of his future than Henry's tweets. He is barely mentioned despite a clear MOTM performance. It is all about Adam scoring and stuff.
[/quote]

Worried? I'm worried we'll get shut of him, if he stays he'll win us a lot of games.
[/quote]

Me too Jon, me too.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=46130.msg1366284#msg1366284 date=1310893979]
I agree in some ways, as I worry that it might damage that fast flowing passing we had towards the tail end of last season.

I also think that we could perhaps use it when that football isn't quite enough though, which will presumably happen from time to time, Adam's set pieces, Downings crosses & Carroll's headers will give us another dimension to our play we've not had since Gary mac was here.
[/quote]

that's all fair enough. really, i'm in the same position as Lewy of never really liking the carroll signing from the start and until he proves himself i'm always going to be a bit harsh on him...obviously i still want to be proven completely wrong.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=46130.msg1366284#msg1366284 date=1310893979]
I agree in some ways, as I worry that it might damage that fast flowing passing we had towards the tail end of last season.

I also think that we could perhaps use it when that football isn't quite enough though, which will presumably happen from time to time, Adam's set pieces, Downings crosses & Carroll's headers will give us another dimension to our play we've not had since Gary mac was here.
[/quote]

the way I see it is we now have the players and creativity to open up teams who want to park the bus at anfield

suarez, maxi, adam, aqua (if he stays), meireles (if he stays).

and we've added players who will fight and scrap for the away win (something you have to do if you want 3 points)
adam, downing, carroll, henderson

we are better equipped to secure 3 points than we were last year. I'm starting to look beyond a 'first 11' and I'm coming round to the idea of looking at games and thinking which personnel are going to get us three points. the personnel needed to beat wigan away may be totally different from the personnel needed to beat fulham a at home.

 

[OLD_Lewy]

Yeah I agree spidey, I was thinking this the other day, the players we've gotten so far seem to be ideal for beating the smaller scrappy teams we always seem to have a problem with

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46130.msg1366281#msg1366281 date=1310893815]
for me it's about having options and strings in your bow. in carroll we have added a target man - an option for away games where holding up the ball is vital and whe've added downing - the option of having a winger who will get chalk on his boots and deliver accurate crosses.
the more options you have the less predictable you become.
[/quote]

This.

 

[Hansern]

I think you give Carroll way to little credit with the ball at his feet. We played good football vs City aswell no? Dont judge his touch and passing in pre season or from several games played unfit. Showed very good techniuqe while he was at Newcastle.

Also, we've been crying out for options in attack for 3 years now.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Lewy link=topic=46130.msg1366297#msg1366297 date=1310895459]
Yeah I agree spidey, I was thinking this the other day, the players we've gotten so far seem to be ideal for beating the smaller scrappy teams we always seem to have a problem with
[/quote]

downing and adam were top peformers in teams that struggled all season, to me that suggests they are battlers and far too often in the past two seasons we've given up points away from home without a fight. also away from home we've have failed time and time again to hold up the ball so everyone from the midfield back has refused to gamble and push up in case we got caught on the break.

bottom line is we've overpayed for the players we've brought (no one will deny that) but I can 100% see WHY these players were brought in, we've been a fucking laughing stock away from home.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=46130.msg1366276#msg1366276 date=1310893493]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=46130.msg1366275#msg1366275 date=1310893412]
For those worried that Aqua might actually be kept on with us, fear not, I think the offal gives a better impression of his future than Henry's tweets. He is barely mentioned despite a clear MOTM performance. It is all about Adam scoring and stuff.
[/quote]

Worried? I'm worried we'll get shut of him, if he stays he'll win us a lot of games.
[/quote]

Let's be honest here... You're basing this on a fanciful kickaround against a bunch of fucking Malaysians, cos not once over the last 6-12 months have you said the above.

 

[Modo]

Aquilani hasn't taken part of any of the publicity stunts with the team, while in Asia. He's not in any of the pictures anyway.
I don't think there's any chance of him staying. I'd be surprised if he's selected to play against Hull and Galatasaray.
Don't understand why were looking to get rid off our best midfielder bar Gerrard. It just seems daft.
Even my Man U supporting friends who watched the game yesterday were saying the same.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Modo link=topic=46130.msg1366340#msg1366340 date=1310901790]
Aquilani hasn't taken part of any of the publicity stunts with the team, while in Asia. He's not in any of the pictures anyway.
I don't think there's any chance of him staying. I'd be surprised if he's selected to play against Hull and Galatasaray.
Don't understand why were looking to get rid off our best midfielder bar Gerrard. It just seems daft.
Even my Man U supporting friends who watched the game yesterday were saying the same.
[/quote]

That logic would be sound but Insua and Poulsen have both been involved in publicity stuff while over there, they took part in one of the shoots the other day along with Carroll and a few others.

 

[the_dude]

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=46130.msg1366303#msg1366303 date=1310896201]
I think you give Carroll way to little credit with the ball at his feet. We played good football vs City aswell no? Dont judge his touch and passing in pre season or from several games played unfit. Showed very good techniuqe while he was at Newcastle.

Also, we've been crying out for options in attack for 3 years now.
[/quote]

everybody knows he is good with the ball at his feet, but it's not worth mentioning because we're looking at him in the context of the signings that have been made and how they will allow him to be dangerous in the air too.

 

[Modo]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46130.msg1366344#msg1366344 date=1310902264]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=46130.msg1366340#msg1366340 date=1310901790]
Aquilani hasn't taken part of any of the publicity stunts with the team, while in Asia. He's not in any of the pictures anyway.
I don't think there's any chance of him staying. I'd be surprised if he's selected to play against Hull and Galatasaray.
Don't understand why were looking to get rid off our best midfielder bar Gerrard. It just seems daft.
Even my Man U supporting friends who watched the game yesterday were saying the same.
[/quote]

That logic would be sound but Insua and Poulsen have both been involved in publicity stuff while over there, they took part in one of the shoots the other day along with Carroll and a few others.
[/quote]
Maybe they're both staying...

 

[doctor_mac]

Aqua had more assists than Ming in his 2009-10 season here, despite playing a mere handful of games. And everyone agrees Ming had a good season.

He did that in meaningful PL and European games.

 

[Gary25]

some observations from yesterday's game:

- our defence is easily exposed. i know it was a friendly but we were all over the shop at times - in both half's of the game. when a side with a bit of movement and pace gets at us, we struggle big time. worrying.

- adam was impressive. looks fit and sharp. kept it simple when he needed to and looked for the killer ball when he needed to. Two tidy performances on the bounce and plenty more to come from Charlie.

- aquilani, lets be honest here, was fucking immense. put it this way, if Gerrard made his comeback and played like Aqua yesterday, we'd all be waxing lyerical. he ran the show and didn't even break sweat, the lad can play and if he really puts the effort in, he would be a revelation...even in the physically demanding Premier League.

- Jon Jo Shelvey - i've yet to see anything positive in this lad's play to suggest he's going to be a star for us. Very, very ordinary in all aspects. Hits wild passes left, right and centre and lets fly at goal only to see the ball sail over the bar, time and time again. Not impressed.

- Andy Carroll is starting to worry me. It's only pre-season blah blah blah but he still looks as unfit as last season...slow, ponderous and his first touch is abysmal. I think he could do with upping his work-rate tbh. Poor, very poor and that's coming from one of his biggest fans...but as it stands now, i'm worried about him.

- N'gog, i wouldn't be in any hurry to get rid. As a 4th choice striker who has proved capable of scoring goals and is happy to play a bit part role then i still think he'd be a valuable member of the squad. Needs to toughen up though.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=46130.msg1366354#msg1366354 date=1310903611]
- Jon Jo Shelvey - i've yet to see anything positive in this lad's play to suggest he's going to be a star for us. Very, very ordinary in all aspects. Hits wild passes left, right and centre and lets fly at goal only to see the ball sail over the bar, time and time again. Not impressed.
[/quote]

Bit harsh there, in the game midweek he ran the show and grabbed a coupple of assists.

 

[Gary25]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46130.msg1366356#msg1366356 date=1310903885]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=46130.msg1366354#msg1366354 date=1310903611]
- Jon Jo Shelvey - i've yet to see anything positive in this lad's play to suggest he's going to be a star for us. Very, very ordinary in all aspects. Hits wild passes left, right and centre and lets fly at goal only to see the ball sail over the bar, time and time again. Not impressed.
[/quote]

Bit harsh there, in the game midweek he ran the show and grabbed a coupple of assists.
[/quote]

Who knows, that comment might come back to haunt me in a few years but i'm just not impressed with the lad from what i've seen.

There's no real composure or quality to his play. I know he's only 19 or 20 but even at that age, you should still be able to see something in a players game to make you think, yeah he'll be boss in a few years.

 

[Ryan]

He's not our best midfielder bar Gerrard.

Stop typing such utter fucking shite.

 

[Oncy]

There was a very clear plan yesterday to get the ball in behind their full backs for overlapping wide players to put the ball in the box. Three of our goals came that way (2 x crosses from Insua and one from Kuyt) that as a plan relies on three key things:
1.Players who can stay wide and get quality into the box
2.Players getting into the middle from the opposite flank
and most importantly
3.Players who can pass it on a sixpence to the wide areas from the middle.

I have wanted us to play this way for years, and as such have championed manys a mediocre winger as it gives us that opportunity. I hope that in kenny we have the man to finally give us that option.
Certainly we have the personell for it:
1.Downing, Johnson......(Aurelio..?)
2.Maxi, Deadly
3.Aquilani, Adam, Gerrard.

I dont think it relies as much on Carroll as is being stated, obviously we will hop he will be on the end of a lot of it but its vital that the options out wide get in too to give the crossers mutiple targets.
The N'gog goal and the two maxi goals were a study in how to do this well.
Im hopeful that we are going to play to a model that i believe strongly in, as i think the best teams the premiership has seen (Arsenal with Pires and Ljungberg and United with Beckham and Giggs) have been the best teams at this particular tactic.

 

[Gary25]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46130.msg1366358#msg1366358 date=1310904488]
He's not our best midfielder bar Gerrard.

Stop typing such utter fucking shite.
[/quote]

Who said he was?

 

[Gary25]

Oh and why was Aurelio not on the Tour?

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46130.msg1366358#msg1366358 date=1310904488]
He's not our best midfielder bar Gerrard.

Stop typing such utter fucking shite.
[/quote]

I missed where it said that, but he has the ability to be our next best creative midfielder behind Gerrard. Who else is there? Lucas, Adam and Ming bring different qualities to the side.

It's pretty clear you don't rate the lad, but don't exaggerate the truth, we all know that Rafa struggled to get him into the team and Woy sent him on loan, I wouldn't put much emphasis on that though, it's not like either of them were infallible when it came to decision making. When he did play he showed he had quality, all this talk about him being too lightweight for Premiership is bollocks based on him being injury prone, when he came into the side he settled in after a couple of games and played well.

 

[the_dude]

[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=46130.msg1366361#msg1366361 date=1310904616]
Oh and why was Aurelio not on the Tour?
[/quote]

his spine snapped in half when he was carrying his rucksack onto the plane

 

[spider-Neil]

my worry is less about carroll and more the defenders who will use him as an excuse to hoof it. The defenders were picking passes yesterday but they were under almost no pressure.

 

[the_dude]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46130.msg1366365#msg1366365 date=1310905147]
my worry is less about carroll and more the defenders who will use him as an excuse to hoof it. The defenders were picking passes yesterday but they were under almost no pressure.
[/quote]

if we get off to a good start this coming season, hopefully the whole team will be confident enough to not panic under pressure and pass it up the pitch

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46130.msg1366363#msg1366363 date=1310904982]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46130.msg1366358#msg1366358 date=1310904488]
He's not our best midfielder bar Gerrard.

Stop typing such utter fucking shite.
[/quote]

I missed where it said that, but he has the ability to be our next best creative midfielder behind Gerrard. Who else is there? Lucas, Adam and Ming bring different qualities to the side.

It's pretty clear you don't rate the lad, but don't exaggerate the truth, we all know that Rafa struggled to get him into the team and Roy sent him on loan, I wouldn't put much emphasis on that though, it's not like either of them were infallible when it came to decision making. When he did play he showed he had quality, all this talk about him being too lightweight for Premiership is bollocks based on him being injury prone, when he came into the side he settled in after a couple of games and played well.
[/quote]

mark, it is based on him shitting out of tackles, which for a CM is a...problem.

 

[mark1975]

Clarke:

"The partnership of Adam and Aquilani was good," said Clarke. "They are showing real promise. We have always known how good a player he is.

"He has the quality to stay on and fight for his place in the first team.

"The tour has helped the players settle in and bond with each other.

"The matches here have been challenging, but they should brace themselves for even tougher training when we get back home."

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46130.msg1366367#msg1366367 date=1310905239]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46130.msg1366363#msg1366363 date=1310904982]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46130.msg1366358#msg1366358 date=1310904488]
He's not our best midfielder bar Gerrard.

Stop typing such utter fucking shite.
[/quote]

I missed where it said that, but he has the ability to be our next best creative midfielder behind Gerrard. Who else is there? Lucas, Adam and Ming bring different qualities to the side.

It's pretty clear you don't rate the lad, but don't exaggerate the truth, we all know that Rafa struggled to get him into the team and Roy sent him on loan, I wouldn't put much emphasis on that though, it's not like either of them were infallible when it came to decision making. When he did play he showed he had quality, all this talk about him being too lightweight for Premiership is bollocks based on him being injury prone, when he came into the side he settled in after a couple of games and played well.
[/quote]

mark, it is based on him shitting out of tackles, which for a CM is a...problem.
[/quote]

When he came into the side under Rafa he ended up playing the advanced role, it's not an issue if the system is right. He's no more a shithouse than the likes of Garcia were and he certainly can't be any worse than Harry Kewell was on that note, we've got enough steel in the side for it to not be a major issue.

 

[Gary25]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46130.msg1366363#msg1366363 date=1310904982]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46130.msg1366358#msg1366358 date=1310904488]
He's not our best midfielder bar Gerrard.

Stop typing such utter fucking shite.
[/quote]

I missed where it said that, but he has the ability to be our next best creative midfielder behind Gerrard. Who else is there? Lucas, Adam and Ming bring different qualities to the side.

It's pretty clear you don't rate the lad, but don't exaggerate the truth, we all know that Rafa struggled to get him into the team and Roy sent him on loan, I wouldn't put much emphasis on that though, it's not like either of them were infallible when it came to decision making. When he did play he showed he had quality, all this talk about him being too lightweight for Premiership is bollocks based on him being injury prone, when he came into the side he settled in after a couple of games and played well.
[/quote]

Well said.

As for Roy sending him out on loan, there was also rumours that our terrible owners at the time and Purslow were the main instigators behind it - reduce the wage bill. That story would fit to be fair.

But yeah, talented player and a joy to watch when he's picking out passes and threading little balls through the eye of a needle as they say. People seem to have a fixed view on Aquilani and i think it's harsh.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=the_dude link=topic=46130.msg1366366#msg1366366 date=1310905226]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46130.msg1366365#msg1366365 date=1310905147]
my worry is less about carroll and more the defenders who will use him as an excuse to hoof it. The defenders were picking passes yesterday but they were under almost no pressure.
[/quote]

if we get off to a good start this coming season, hopefully the whole team will be confident enough to not panic under pressure and pass it up the pitch
[/quote]

the odd diagonal ball is fine but when hoofs become a preferred method for distribution, that's a problem as you giving away possession and not allowing yourself to build momentum. it happened under crouch and it happened under heskey.

 

[HC]

I've got absolutely no qaulms if we have a shit hot attacking player who isn't too keen on getting fucking sat on by Titus Bramble et al.

If he's doing the business with the ball at his feet than fantastic.