lucas

[Molbystwin]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=35441.msg932126#msg932126 date=1251189929]
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=35441.msg932120#msg932120 date=1251189649]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=35441.msg932114#msg932114 date=1251189168]
I'll tell you what - he's not a great player by any means and can be a liability at times but he retained the ball a lot better than Gerrard did last night. Gerrard was woeful last night, running around the field like a naive teenager, giving possession away continuously and making completely idiotic tackles in the box. Lucas was clumsy for the foul for the first goal but Gerrard was just plain stupid for the third.

Get off the lads back. He's no Alonso that's for sure but he was nowhere near our worst player last night.


[/quote]

No.
He was our worst player because he was the one who ensured we were in the shit in a game we were previously comfortable in, other players indeed were shit last night but Lucas in that firt half moment shone through.

He is not good enough.

End of argument.


[/quote]


I'm not disagreeing he's not good enough. I'm disagreeing he was our worst player last night.
[/quote]

And i'm disagreeing with that Sunny because I think he was for the reason I gave, he personally changed the game into a shit feast. Other bad sloppy things happened subsequently it is true and other players were uber wank perhaps even more so than poor likkle Lucas, but he was source of shitness, the curse, the jinx, he was the one who opened the box marked defeat,he was the literal physical embodiment of delusional hope of improvement. This in conjunction to the fact that he has never done anything positive for our team in three seasons and we all fucking knew he wasn't good enough anyway makes me furiously angry and more than happy to let him have both barrells the useless fucking goyt. He is cuntmaster general as far as i'm concerned.

This whole thread was a bad idea I think. None of this needs mentioning right this minute.

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=35441.msg932134#msg932134 date=1251190704]

And i'm disagreeing with that Sunny because I think he was for the reason I gave, he personally changed the game into a shit feast. Other bad sloppy things happened subsequently it is true and other players were uber wank perhaps even more so than poor likkle Lucas, but he was source of shitness, the curse, the jinx, he was the one who opened the box marked defeat,he was the literal physical embodiment of delusional hope of improvement. This in conjunction to the fact that he has never done anything positive for our team in three seasons and we all fucking knew he wasn't good enough anyway makes me furiously angry and more than happy to let him have both barrells the useless fucking goyt. He is cuntmaster general as far as i'm concerned.

This whole thread was a bad idea I think. None of this needs mentioning right this minute.
[/quote]


Yes, Lucas being such an influential player, he used his Jedi mind trick to make everyone play shit. I know he's not good enough but I still don't see the need for all your hysterical posturing.

 

[singlerider]

[quote author=iseeredpeople link=topic=35441.msg931959#msg931959 date=1251150275]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35441.msg931957#msg931957 date=1251150128]
[quote author=charliesurf link=topic=35441.msg931946#msg931946 date=1251149923]
if we had taken our chances tonight - this conversation would not be happening.

I am his biggest critic, but Gerards as culpable as Lucas tonight. Take our chances and the dream is still on,lose and we need to blame someone.
[/quote]

the need for a scapegoat is the horrible side of football.
[/quote]
i thought that was racism. or homophobia? or maybe it is diving and time wasting? tough one.
[/quote]

Quite obviously it's ponytails, you mug

 

[Molbystwin]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=35441.msg932137#msg932137 date=1251191271]
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=35441.msg932134#msg932134 date=1251190704]

And i'm disagreeing with that Sunny because I think he was for the reason I gave, he personally changed the game into a shit feast. Other bad sloppy things happened subsequently it is true and other players were uber wank perhaps even more so than poor likkle Lucas, but he was source of shitness, the curse, the jinx, he was the one who opened the box marked defeat,he was the literal physical embodiment of delusional hope of improvement. This in conjunction to the fact that he has never done anything positive for our team in three seasons and we all fucking knew he wasn't good enough anyway makes me furiously angry and more than happy to let him have both barrells the useless fucking goyt. He is cuntmaster general as far as i'm concerned.

This whole thread was a bad idea I think. None of this needs mentioning right this minute.
[/quote]


Yes, Lucas being such an influential player, he used his Jedi mind trick to make everyone play shit. I know he's not good enough but I still don't see the need for all your hysterical posturing.
[/quote]

I think its "real fan" posturing bollox to support the cunt to be honest, he was fucking dire, he is fucking dire.

YNWA etc etc.

anyway i've calmed down now...

c'mon Lucas you can do it!!

When is aquilani fit again??

 

[Avmenon]

Least you're not blaming the Yanks for Lucas 🙁

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=35441.msg932209#msg932209 date=1251198163]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=35441.msg932137#msg932137 date=1251191271]
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=35441.msg932134#msg932134 date=1251190704]

And i'm disagreeing with that Sunny because I think he was for the reason I gave, he personally changed the game into a shit feast. Other bad sloppy things happened subsequently it is true and other players were uber wank perhaps even more so than poor likkle Lucas, but he was source of shitness, the curse, the jinx, he was the one who opened the box marked defeat,he was the literal physical embodiment of delusional hope of improvement. This in conjunction to the fact that he has never done anything positive for our team in three seasons and we all fucking knew he wasn't good enough anyway makes me furiously angry and more than happy to let him have both barrells the useless fucking goyt. He is cuntmaster general as far as i'm concerned.

This whole thread was a bad idea I think. None of this needs mentioning right this minute.
[/quote]


Yes, Lucas being such an influential player, he used his Jedi mind trick to make everyone play shit. I know he's not good enough but I still don't see the need for all your hysterical posturing.
[/quote]

I think its "real fan" posturing bollox to support the cunt to be honest, he was fucking dire, he is fucking dire.

YNWA etc etc.

anyway i've calmed down now...

c'mon Lucas you can do it!!

When is aquilani fit again??


[/quote]

I'm not supporting him and I've said many times I don't think he's good enough for us. I just do not think he was the worst player on the pitch as you're making out. Trust me, he's a player who frustrates the hell out of me but, at the moment, he's all we've got to play in that system and calling him all the cunts going isn't helping him that's all. He looks nervous to me on the ball like he's petrified to make a mistake. With people jumping on his back for every mistake that will never improve.


Oh, and you can fuck right off with the "real fan" nonsense as well.

 

[LadyRed]

I don't get this thread. It's not about scapegoating, it's about being three games into the season, and having lost two of those three , looking at where we're losing those games. It's in the midfield, surely we can all see that. What were were so good at last season was retaining possession of the ball, because we always had a player in the middle of the park that was ready to receive the ball when nothing else was on. That's what we're now lacking.

The aim here is not the knock Lucas, he could become a really good player, at 22, it's too early to make that call just yet. Of course we all hope he does come good. But we can't and shouldn't be relying on him as heavily as we are right now. Point is Lucas shouldn't be in a position where he can be 'blamed' for a result, because we shouldn't be relying on him as heavily as we currently are.

The solution is simple, because there is only one option, and that's the play Gerrard deeper with Benyoun playing behind Torres. Gerrard is ineffective where he is right now anyway, as he's caught in no mans land, he's inclined to come deeper to collect the ball, yet still trying to make forward moves. Torres is left isolated hence the 'body langauage' concerns.

Champions don't start a season by losing two of their opening three, we need to buck up our ideas, quick. We can't afford to risk things by continuing to rely on Lucas, that's not picking on him, that's just being real.

 

[ILD]

[quote author=Anita link=topic=35441.msg932237#msg932237 date=1251201150]
I don't get this thread. It's not about scapegoating, it's about being three games into the season, and having lost two of those three , looking at where we're losing those games. It's in the midfield, surely we can all see that. What were were so good at last season was retaining possession of the ball, because we always had a player in the middle of the park that was ready to receive the ball when nothing else was on. That's what we're now lacking.

The aim here is not the knock Lucas, he could become a really good player, at 22, it's too early to make that call just yet. Of course we all hope he does come good. But we can't and shouldn't be relying on him as heavily as we are right now. Point is Lucas shouldn't be in a position where he can be 'blamed' for a result, because we shouldn't be relying on him as heavily as we currently are.

The solution is simple, because there is only one option, and that's the play Gerrard deeper with Benyoun playing behind Torres. Gerrard is ineffective where he is right now anyway, as he's caught in no mans land, he's inclined to come deeper to collect the ball, yet still trying to make forward moves. Torres is left isolated hence the 'body langauage' concerns.

Champions don't start a season by losing two of their opening three, we need to buck up our ideas, quick. We can't afford to risk things by continuing to rely on Lucas, that's not picking on him, that's just being real.
[/quote]

Odd then that the thread is titled Lucas, thus singling him out and the majority of posts are based around how his 'shitness' cost us the game. Of course we all would a enjoy a better option in midfield than Lucas. He often frustrates the hell out of us but we can't solely lay blame on his feet when everyone was poor. The ball was often played by him to the supposed big guns of Torres, Kuyt and Gerrard and it call flying back. He tries something, and it criticised, he doesn't try something, he is criticised. I'm not starting a Poor the Lucas Campaign, all I'm saying is if people want him to come out of his shell then maybe they need to allow him time to do it and not harass his every touch. If he doesn't have the ambition and self confidence to impose himself onto games then I'd be happy to show him the door. But he deserves a chance to show if he can. Granted people might say we can't afford the time for him to do so, but there other players on the pitch who need a good kick up the arse and it isn't Lucas. Gerrard, Torres and Kuyt were shocking last night and against Spurs.

In a few months Aqualini will be fit and he can be the new messiah to rid Lucas from the team, but he isn't fit yet and will need time to settle. Will every pass he attempts be criticized with such venom?

I find it funny that I'm staunchly defending Lucas, who I don't overly rate, but I want him to succeed so it's probably clouding my judgement. I hope Aqualini is one hell of a player, to make everyone relax.

 

[Roopy]

Lucas made up for the own goal with that awesome spin move he did a few mins later 😉

 

[Vlads Quiff]

This is not about Lucas as such, or how good he is, or is not , it's about pairing him with Masher.
They are a pair of crabs and it can't go on. Masher has more in his toolbox so stays, Lucas has to make way.
Simples *squeak*

regards

 

[Squiggles]

The thread was entitled 'Lucas' because Spiderneil was trying to show him support.

Nobody is single-handedly blaming him for the defeat. It's just clear there he needs sacrificing so we can move to midfield partnership of Gerrard and Mascherano.

Saying people are scapegoating is pompous, arrogant and ignores what people are actually saying.

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35441.msg932259#msg932259 date=1251203291]


Nobody is single-handedly blaming him for the defeat.

[/quote]

Yes they are. Molbystwin is.

 

[rage]

lucas is shit. even the day after it just makes me angry thinking how he gave away that foul then scored that own goal.

as far as i'm concerned the cunt went a long way towards costing us the title last season with his idiotic tackling and how he gets picked in a starting 11 ahead of riera this season is astonishing.

if he never played another game for us and got sold in this window we would all be relieved.

i got a call from a mate of mine who had my tickets last night and he pretty much said the entire section of the kop where we sit was fuming at lucas and how rafa waited till 70 minutes to take him off. the lad is on borrowed time, i do not remember the last time under rafa that the crowd were on the verge of turning against a player.

he's not being made a scapegoat because he is responsible for us dropping points. what will it take for those who blindly back this shithead to see this?

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=rage link=topic=35441.msg932272#msg932272 date=1251204080]
lucas is shit. even the day after it just makes me angry thinking how he gave away that foul then scored that own goal.

as far as i'm concerned the cunt went a long way towards costing us the title last season with his idiotic tackling and how he gets picked in a starting 11 ahead of riera this season is astonishing.

if he never played another game for us and got sold in this window we would all be relieved.

i got a call from a mate of mine who had my tickets last night and he pretty much said the entire section of the kop where we sit was fuming at lucas and how rafa waited till 70 minutes to take him off. the lad is on borrowed time, i do not remember the last time under rafa that the crowd were on the verge of turning against a player.

he's not being made a scapegoat because he is responsible for us dropping points. what will it take for those who blindly back this shithead to see this?
[/quote]

You're a despicable cunt of a poster.

How did he cost us the title last season? One penalty?

 

[NOTH]

Mixed feelings on Lucas - he's clearly not up to being a mainstay in a title winning midfield, but it's a little harsh to single him out when so many other players are stinking up the place - including Torres and Gerrard. Aren't these the sort of games when we're relying on our 'two world class players' to rescue us?

Both were utter gash last night.

That said, the midfield ain't great. In fariness to Lucas I think he will suffer because we HAD the perfect midfield, the right mixture of Steel, efficiency and creativity. We could have gone out and replaced Alonso with Xabi or Iniesta and we'd have no guarantees that they'd gel with Masher and Gerrard in the way Xabi did and find that perfect rhythm we had last season. So Lucas is on a bit of a hiding to nothing really.

Didn't do himself any favours last night mind

Can't help but feel we'll end up looking back on this season and cursing the departure of Xabi.

Should also be said that we're missing Aurelio and Agger. Johnson aside, none of our 'back six' is willing to take any responsibility for passing the ball forward

depressing start to the season.

 

[rage]

one penalty cost us 2 points. that would have meant we were within one game where anything could have happened.

i'd rather speak the truth and be called a despicable cunt of a poster than have my head shoved so far up lucas' arse that i can't see he's a complete waste of space and is as bad as diao, bruno and le tallac.

the cunt should be dropped for bolton away if he's not sold by then else he'll just get bullied off the ball and we'll see gerrard having to drop to get the ball, masch having to try and do things he can't and torres get pissed off exposed up front.

if rafa carries on with lucas he'll get sacked by xmas.

 

[Le Chacal]

Haha thats how I like this site. 8)
I had the same reaction towards Lucas when he gave the freekick away and then the own goal.
He's useless.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=rage link=topic=35441.msg932280#msg932280 date=1251204589]
one penalty cost us 2 points. that would have meant we were within one game where anything could have happened.

i'd rather speak the truth and be called a despicable cunt of a poster than have my head shoved so far up lucas' arse that i can't see he's a complete waste of space and is as bad as diao, bruno and le tallac.

the cunt should be dropped for bolton away if he's not sold by then else he'll just get bullied off the ball and we'll see gerrard having to drop to get the ball, masch having to try and do things he can't and torres get pissed off exposed up front.



[/quote]

So one penalty essentially cost us the title?

What about the comical defending and inept attacking that cost during our lean spell? How about Lucas playing centre midfield with Masher at Old Trafford in our best performance of the season?

if rafa carries on with lucas he'll get sacked by xmas.

I thought you'd be all for it then.

 

[NOTH]

[quote author=rage link=topic=35441.msg932280#msg932280 date=1251204589]
one penalty cost us 2 points. that would have meant we were within one game where anything could have happened.

i'd rather speak the truth and be called a despicable cunt of a poster than have my head shoved so far up lucas' arse that i can't see he's a complete waste of space and is as bad as diao, bruno and le tallac.

the cunt should be dropped for bolton away if he's not sold by then else he'll just get bullied off the ball and we'll see gerrard having to drop to get the ball, masch having to try and do things he can't and torres get pissed off exposed up front.

if rafa carries on with lucas he'll get sacked by xmas.

[/quote]

WTF?

i'm not exactly a lucas fan, but he aint as bad as those three mate, nor is he responsible for whatever torres has got up his arse at the moment

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=NOTH link=topic=35441.msg932279#msg932279 date=1251204555]
Mixed feelings on Lucas - he's clearly not up to being a mainstay in a title winning midfield, but it's a little harsh to single him out when so many other players are stinking up the place - including Torres and Gerrard. Aren't these the sort of games when we're relying on our 'two world class players' to rescue us?

Both were utter gash last night.

That said, the midfield ain't great. In fariness to Lucas I think he will suffer because we HAD the perfect midfield, the right mixture of Steel, efficiency and creativity. We could have gone out and replaced Alonso with Xabi or Iniesta and we'd have no guarantees that they'd gel with Masher and Gerrard in the way Xabi did and find that perfect rhythm we had last season. So Lucas is on a bit of a hiding to nothing really.

Didn't do himself any favours last night mind

Can't help but feel we'll end up looking back on this season and cursing the departure of Xabi.

Should also be said that we're missing Aurelio and Agger. Johnson aside, none of our 'back six' is willing to take any responsibility for passing the ball forward

depressing start to the season.
[/quote]

As I said earlier in this and other threads, it's not the capability that is the issue, it's that he and Masher are the same type of player exactly but nether are the type of player that creates much , nothing wrong with that in itself, but to have both of them really stifles the team, you need a play-maker and a defensive midfielder alongside each other, or you get exactly what happened last night.

regards

Welcome to the site by the way....brave time to come on board 😉

 

[gkmacca]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35441.msg932257#msg932257 date=1251203148]
This is not about Lucas as such, or how good he is, or is not , it's about pairing him with Masher.
They are a pair of crabs and it can't go on. Masher has more in his toolbox so stays, Lucas has to make way.
Simples *squeak*

regards
[/quote]

Anita makes an eminently good point above. And I agree with you, too, Vladders, except I wouldn't actually mind giving Mascher a rest. He gets the ball admirably, but his Hamman-like punts at goal beggar belief. I'm not sure he's come down from that Barca cloud yet.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=35441.msg932300#msg932300 date=1251205927]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35441.msg932257#msg932257 date=1251203148]
This is not about Lucas as such, or how good he is, or is not , it's about pairing him with Masher.
They are a pair of crabs and it can't go on. Masher has more in his toolbox so stays, Lucas has to make way.
Simples *squeak*

regards
[/quote]

Anita makes an eminently good point above. And I agree with you, too, Vladders, except I wouldn't actually mind giving Mascher a rest. He gets the ball admirably, but his Hamman-like punts at goal beggar belief. I'm not sure he's come down from that Barca cloud yet.
[/quote]

I would not disagree completely Macca, but I think Masher is suffering , not only for the reasons you mention, but being in the pairing. I still think , even on current form, he brings more to the table.
At least he is getting in a position for a punt (which have been bloody awful)

regards

 

[rage]

yea lets give masch a rest whilst lucas carries on playing. that'd work 😉

come on mate just look in the mirror and say what you're really thinking. a dead donkey would be of more use in liverpool's midfield than lucas 'pretend brazilian' levia.

i'm not worried anymore anyway - rafa either drops lucas or gets himself sacked and the new manager throws lucas out. only problem is it'll be another season written off.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35441.msg932305#msg932305 date=1251206129]
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=35441.msg932300#msg932300 date=1251205927]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35441.msg932257#msg932257 date=1251203148]
This is not about Lucas as such, or how good he is, or is not , it's about pairing him with Masher.
They are a pair of crabs and it can't go on. Masher has more in his toolbox so stays, Lucas has to make way.
Simples *squeak*

regards
[/quote]

Anita makes an eminently good point above. And I agree with you, too, Vladders, except I wouldn't actually mind giving Mascher a rest. He gets the ball admirably, but his Hamman-like punts at goal beggar belief. I'm not sure he's come down from that Barca cloud yet.
[/quote]

I would not disagree completely Macca, but I think Masher is suffering , not only for the reasons you mention, but being in the pairing. I still think , even on current form, he brings more to the table.
At least he is getting in a position for a punt (which have been bloody awful)

regards
[/quote]

I thought Masher tried to raise it a bit second half, a couple of the tackles he did were excellent in breaking up their play and he generally tried to get the momentum going. His shots on goal are a bit pointless though.

 

[gkmacca]

[quote author=rage link=topic=35441.msg932308#msg932308 date=1251206213]
yea lets give masch a rest whilst lucas carries on playing. that'd work 😉

come on mate just look in the mirror and say what you're really thinking. a dead donkey would be of more use in liverpool's midfield than lucas 'pretend brazilian' levia.

i'm not worried anymore anyway - rafa either drops lucas or gets himself sacked and the new manager throws lucas out. only problem is it'll be another season written off.
[/quote]

I would argue with you, but there's a cat outside so you're still a bit down the list. :🙂

 

[SummerOnions]

Lucas was about as much use as a chocolate fucking sundial at times.

 

[Molbystwin]

[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=35441.msg933066#msg933066 date=1251305487]
Lucas was about as much use as a chocolate fucking sundial at times.
[/quote]

It was an absolute cunt of a result. I read an article in the times today talking about the mood in the camp being flat after it dawned on the players that reinforcemets were not arriving. The yanks can stick the net spend up their arse as far as im concerned.

Two holding midfielders is not so good, I let Lucas have it the other day and it was harsh but the truth is we all fucking knew it would be a disaster if he was in Alonsos stead and that is exactly what has happened. The players aren't dumb neither they knew we need to get some class in and we didn't even though we sold on Alonso.

Talk about pressure on the new lad when he finally recovers...I hope we can keep in touch with then.
A really massive game against Bolton coming up.

We will win, assuming we don't concede any more own goals.

 

[Avmenon]

Yeah, it's like caterpillars 🙂