lucas
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[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=35441.msg931965#msg931965 date=1251150559]
I think he'll settle, somewhere, playing a Dunga-like role, and probably be very successful doing so (but also as under-appreciated). Which is probably what Dunga thinks.
[/quote]
Haha, he'll settle in a mid table spanish side fine.
I think he'll settle, somewhere, playing a Dunga-like role, and probably be very successful doing so (but also as under-appreciated). Which is probably what Dunga thinks.
[/quote]
Haha, he'll settle in a mid table spanish side fine.
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=35441.msg931868#msg931868 date=1251148204]He needs to make himself available A LOT more often and actually look to assert himself, rather than being content with completing a few passes and not being the worst player on the pitch.
[/quote]
Yes.
[/quote]
Yes.
[quote author=iseeredpeople link=topic=35441.msg931959#msg931959 date=1251150275]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35441.msg931957#msg931957 date=1251150128]
[quote author=charliesurf link=topic=35441.msg931946#msg931946 date=1251149923]
if we had taken our chances tonight - this conversation would not be happening.
I am his biggest critic, but Gerards as culpable as Lucas tonight. Take our chances and the dream is still on,lose and we need to blame someone.
[/quote]
the need for a scapegoat is the horrible side of football.
[/quote]
i thought that was racism. or homophobia? or maybe it is diving and time wasting? tough one.
[/quote]
the horrible side of football has many sides -
the dodecker hedron of football
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35441.msg931957#msg931957 date=1251150128]
[quote author=charliesurf link=topic=35441.msg931946#msg931946 date=1251149923]
if we had taken our chances tonight - this conversation would not be happening.
I am his biggest critic, but Gerards as culpable as Lucas tonight. Take our chances and the dream is still on,lose and we need to blame someone.
[/quote]
the need for a scapegoat is the horrible side of football.
[/quote]
i thought that was racism. or homophobia? or maybe it is diving and time wasting? tough one.
[/quote]
the horrible side of football has many sides -
the dodecker hedron of football
[quote author=ankreds link=topic=35441.msg931967#msg931967 date=1251150626]
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=35441.msg931965#msg931965 date=1251150559]
I think he'll settle, somewhere, playing a Dunga-like role, and probably be very successful doing so (but also as under-appreciated). Which is probably what Dunga thinks.
[/quote]
Haha, he'll settle in a mid table spanish side fine.
[/quote]
Haha and keep being picked for Brazil. I'm not a Lucas fan, but this determination to write him off at 22 is just insulting.
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=35441.msg931965#msg931965 date=1251150559]
I think he'll settle, somewhere, playing a Dunga-like role, and probably be very successful doing so (but also as under-appreciated). Which is probably what Dunga thinks.
[/quote]
Haha, he'll settle in a mid table spanish side fine.
[/quote]
Haha and keep being picked for Brazil. I'm not a Lucas fan, but this determination to write him off at 22 is just insulting.
[quote author=ankreds link=topic=35441.msg931961#msg931961 date=1251150378]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=35441.msg931953#msg931953 date=1251150051]
[quote author=ankreds link=topic=35441.msg931943#msg931943 date=1251149856]
Im worried whenever lucas starts a match now.
[/quote]
Get a dictionary look up the words over and reaction and then push them together.
[/quote]
Not an overreaction, he's just not good enough.
He can pass sideways and backwards absolutely fine. Has a good enough footballing brain to slip in the odd ball but just doesn't do it frequently enough i'm afraid.
I've tried to see some posititves in lucas's performances but just can't. Like I said on numerous accounts he just doesn';t have the ability to force a game, doesn't drive forward or doesn't have the capablity to go past a player to set up someone. It's just not there.
The last time I felt that about a player was when Diao pulled on a red shirt.
Oh and its not a scapegoat, i'm just more frustrated we don't have anyone in that key area to force the game like Alonso did. Most the liverpool team were shite today, that including torres and gerrard.
[/quote]
Your initial response was an over reaction. You said your "worried whenever Lucas starts a match now". That is a bit OTT. We have won important games with him in the side before and i'm sure we'll do it this season.
I don't know why I'm staunchly defending him, just hate the idea of a player being a scapegoat when others were well below average.
[quote author=ILD link=topic=35441.msg931953#msg931953 date=1251150051]
[quote author=ankreds link=topic=35441.msg931943#msg931943 date=1251149856]
Im worried whenever lucas starts a match now.
[/quote]
Get a dictionary look up the words over and reaction and then push them together.
[/quote]
Not an overreaction, he's just not good enough.
He can pass sideways and backwards absolutely fine. Has a good enough footballing brain to slip in the odd ball but just doesn't do it frequently enough i'm afraid.
I've tried to see some posititves in lucas's performances but just can't. Like I said on numerous accounts he just doesn';t have the ability to force a game, doesn't drive forward or doesn't have the capablity to go past a player to set up someone. It's just not there.
The last time I felt that about a player was when Diao pulled on a red shirt.
Oh and its not a scapegoat, i'm just more frustrated we don't have anyone in that key area to force the game like Alonso did. Most the liverpool team were shite today, that including torres and gerrard.
[/quote]
Your initial response was an over reaction. You said your "worried whenever Lucas starts a match now". That is a bit OTT. We have won important games with him in the side before and i'm sure we'll do it this season.
I don't know why I'm staunchly defending him, just hate the idea of a player being a scapegoat when others were well below average.
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=35441.msg931868#msg931868 date=1251148204]
He needs to make himself available A LOT more often and actually look to assert himself, rather than being content with completing a few passes and not being the worst player on the pitch.
[/quote]
spot on. still, can't blame him for being tentative, the anfield crowd is pouncing on any fuck ups so its no wonder me may be scared to try something.
He needs to make himself available A LOT more often and actually look to assert himself, rather than being content with completing a few passes and not being the worst player on the pitch.
[/quote]
spot on. still, can't blame him for being tentative, the anfield crowd is pouncing on any fuck ups so its no wonder me may be scared to try something.
[quote author=ILD link=topic=35441.msg931972#msg931972 date=1251150842]
[quote author=ankreds link=topic=35441.msg931961#msg931961 date=1251150378]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=35441.msg931953#msg931953 date=1251150051]
[quote author=ankreds link=topic=35441.msg931943#msg931943 date=1251149856]
Im worried whenever lucas starts a match now.
[/quote]
Get a dictionary look up the words over and reaction and then push them together.
[/quote]
Not an overreaction, he's just not good enough.
He can pass sideways and backwards absolutely fine. Has a good enough footballing brain to slip in the odd ball but just doesn't do it frequently enough i'm afraid.
I've tried to see some posititves in lucas's performances but just can't. Like I said on numerous accounts he just doesn';t have the ability to force a game, doesn't drive forward or doesn't have the capablity to go past a player to set up someone. It's just not there.
The last time I felt that about a player was when Diao pulled on a red shirt.
Oh and its not a scapegoat, i'm just more frustrated we don't have anyone in that key area to force the game like Alonso did. Most the liverpool team were shite today, that including torres and gerrard.
[/quote]
Your initial response was an over reaction. You said your "worried whenever Lucas starts a match now". That is a bit OTT. We have won important games with him in the side before and i'm sure we'll do it this season.
I don't know why I'm staunchly defending him, just hate the idea of a player being a scapegoat when others were well below average.
[/quote]
No but I am actually worried, because its a key area where you'd need someone to force the game.
We play with 1 holding midfielder, so you'd expect the other to drive forward and be a tad more attack minded. Lucas provides very little in that department so now i'm more worried than ever.
Not an overreaction, trust me.
[quote author=ankreds link=topic=35441.msg931961#msg931961 date=1251150378]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=35441.msg931953#msg931953 date=1251150051]
[quote author=ankreds link=topic=35441.msg931943#msg931943 date=1251149856]
Im worried whenever lucas starts a match now.
[/quote]
Get a dictionary look up the words over and reaction and then push them together.
[/quote]
Not an overreaction, he's just not good enough.
He can pass sideways and backwards absolutely fine. Has a good enough footballing brain to slip in the odd ball but just doesn't do it frequently enough i'm afraid.
I've tried to see some posititves in lucas's performances but just can't. Like I said on numerous accounts he just doesn';t have the ability to force a game, doesn't drive forward or doesn't have the capablity to go past a player to set up someone. It's just not there.
The last time I felt that about a player was when Diao pulled on a red shirt.
Oh and its not a scapegoat, i'm just more frustrated we don't have anyone in that key area to force the game like Alonso did. Most the liverpool team were shite today, that including torres and gerrard.
[/quote]
Your initial response was an over reaction. You said your "worried whenever Lucas starts a match now". That is a bit OTT. We have won important games with him in the side before and i'm sure we'll do it this season.
I don't know why I'm staunchly defending him, just hate the idea of a player being a scapegoat when others were well below average.
[/quote]
No but I am actually worried, because its a key area where you'd need someone to force the game.
We play with 1 holding midfielder, so you'd expect the other to drive forward and be a tad more attack minded. Lucas provides very little in that department so now i'm more worried than ever.
Not an overreaction, trust me.
S
Squiggles
Guest
Oh fuck off Spider Neil, you pompously banging on about 'scapegoats' in the Babel thread and now you've continued in here.
Nobody has single-handedly blamed him for the defeat but he failed to impose himself on another game where we really needed it.
Nobody has single-handedly blamed him for the defeat but he failed to impose himself on another game where we really needed it.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35441.msg931974#msg931974 date=1251150866]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=35441.msg931868#msg931868 date=1251148204]
He needs to make himself available A LOT more often and actually look to assert himself, rather than being content with completing a few passes and not being the worst player on the pitch.
[/quote]
spot on. still, can't blame him for being tentative, the anfield crowd is pouncing on any fuck ups so its no wonder me may be scared to try something.
[/quote]
He tried the roulette heals and pulled it off, yet was mocked for attempting it. Poor the Lucas.
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=35441.msg931868#msg931868 date=1251148204]
He needs to make himself available A LOT more often and actually look to assert himself, rather than being content with completing a few passes and not being the worst player on the pitch.
[/quote]
spot on. still, can't blame him for being tentative, the anfield crowd is pouncing on any fuck ups so its no wonder me may be scared to try something.
[/quote]
He tried the roulette heals and pulled it off, yet was mocked for attempting it. Poor the Lucas.
[quote author=ILD link=topic=35441.msg931981#msg931981 date=1251151268]
The Lucas debate is a tricky one. I don't think he warranted such critism tonight yet I know in my heart he isn't imposing himself onto games enough and we need someone to take control and link defence to attack.
Everyone was poor tonight not just Lucas though people.
[/quote]
Agreed. I would have taken off Lucas or even Macherano a lot earlier. Our squad is seriously lacking in depth.
The Lucas debate is a tricky one. I don't think he warranted such critism tonight yet I know in my heart he isn't imposing himself onto games enough and we need someone to take control and link defence to attack.
Everyone was poor tonight not just Lucas though people.
[/quote]
Agreed. I would have taken off Lucas or even Macherano a lot earlier. Our squad is seriously lacking in depth.
[quote author=D.Winchester link=topic=35441.msg931988#msg931988 date=1251151987]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=35441.msg931981#msg931981 date=1251151268]
The Lucas debate is a tricky one. I don't think he warranted such critism tonight yet I know in my heart he isn't imposing himself onto games enough and we need someone to take control and link defence to attack.
Everyone was poor tonight not just Lucas though people.
[/quote]
Agreed. I would have taken off Lucas or even Macherano a lot earlier. Our squad is seriously lacking in depth.
[/quote]
Mascherano was atleast going forward trying to force the game.
Yes our squad is seriously lacking in depth.
[quote author=ILD link=topic=35441.msg931981#msg931981 date=1251151268]
The Lucas debate is a tricky one. I don't think he warranted such critism tonight yet I know in my heart he isn't imposing himself onto games enough and we need someone to take control and link defence to attack.
Everyone was poor tonight not just Lucas though people.
[/quote]
Agreed. I would have taken off Lucas or even Macherano a lot earlier. Our squad is seriously lacking in depth.
[/quote]
Mascherano was atleast going forward trying to force the game.
Yes our squad is seriously lacking in depth.
[quote author=MaschedUp link=topic=35441.msg931925#msg931925 date=1251149330]
[quote author=5Times link=topic=35441.msg931884#msg931884 date=1251148473]
Simply not good enough. Nothing to discuss
[/quote]
Perfectly summarised.
[/quote]
I would say, not confident enough. It's not like he has bad technique or shit for brains. He just doesn't assert himself on the pitch enough. I though he played much better at Tottenham than tonight; against Villa he was just timid and always going for the safest option. Maybe he is nervous playing in front of home fans, because he knows he'll get slaughtered for any mistake.
[quote author=5Times link=topic=35441.msg931884#msg931884 date=1251148473]
Simply not good enough. Nothing to discuss
[/quote]
Perfectly summarised.
[/quote]
I would say, not confident enough. It's not like he has bad technique or shit for brains. He just doesn't assert himself on the pitch enough. I though he played much better at Tottenham than tonight; against Villa he was just timid and always going for the safest option. Maybe he is nervous playing in front of home fans, because he knows he'll get slaughtered for any mistake.
I have been patient with him throughout his time at the club and have been willing to see him do well I have not pinned my colours to any mast regarding his ability or inability at any time. For this reason I have no intention of holding back on him now.
Today he gave away a silly free kick through inability and then scored an awful plain fucking dozy own goal from the ensuing kick.
This occured at a time in a game in which Villa had done absolutely fuck all and i'm sure we would have turned them over eventually. That brilliant piece of play by Lucas not boosted Villas' confidence and lowered our own but it afforded them the opporunity to literally do fuck all for 90 minutes and park the bus.
A painful physical in the flesh in front of our own eyes reminder that;
Lucas is fucking SHITE
and perhaps even more importantly
Alonso was not SHITE.
That we have that cunt in our midfield is a fucking disaster of epic proportion. It is a fucking deathwish. Its one thing being a nobody, a pair of legs on the pitch, a filler, a substitute, neutral etc etc.... it is another thing being a physical representation of how shit we can be. Rafa must get rid of him it is that simple. Not doing positive things for the side is one thing being so shit that we end up losing a game is another.
I do not know of any fan of any team nor indeed a single fucking pundit who have anything good to say about him at all. I do not believe that everybody can be wrong at the same time for such an extended period. He must be as shit as he looks. Insipid useless cunt.
He must be relieved of his duties and the sooner the better.
That is the best i can say about him this evening.
Today he gave away a silly free kick through inability and then scored an awful plain fucking dozy own goal from the ensuing kick.
This occured at a time in a game in which Villa had done absolutely fuck all and i'm sure we would have turned them over eventually. That brilliant piece of play by Lucas not boosted Villas' confidence and lowered our own but it afforded them the opporunity to literally do fuck all for 90 minutes and park the bus.
A painful physical in the flesh in front of our own eyes reminder that;
Lucas is fucking SHITE
and perhaps even more importantly
Alonso was not SHITE.
That we have that cunt in our midfield is a fucking disaster of epic proportion. It is a fucking deathwish. Its one thing being a nobody, a pair of legs on the pitch, a filler, a substitute, neutral etc etc.... it is another thing being a physical representation of how shit we can be. Rafa must get rid of him it is that simple. Not doing positive things for the side is one thing being so shit that we end up losing a game is another.
I do not know of any fan of any team nor indeed a single fucking pundit who have anything good to say about him at all. I do not believe that everybody can be wrong at the same time for such an extended period. He must be as shit as he looks. Insipid useless cunt.
He must be relieved of his duties and the sooner the better.
That is the best i can say about him this evening.
[quote author=Wilko7 link=topic=35441.msg931916#msg931916 date=1251149153]
It was awful to listen to that utter dickhead, Joe Royle, blathering on about Alonso being missed as if it was LFC's decision to move him on.
[/quote]
Unfortunately his replacement wont play for 2 months, by which time our League hopes could be over.
It was awful to listen to that utter dickhead, Joe Royle, blathering on about Alonso being missed as if it was LFC's decision to move him on.
[/quote]
Unfortunately his replacement wont play for 2 months, by which time our League hopes could be over.
The team balance and the Gerrard/Torres link up is broken with him the team.
He's useless, lightweight and always late on challenges.
Gerrard has to come back deeper on the field and that leaves Torres alone up front.
A Torres who's not fit, always complainig, getting frustrated too quiclky...
The players are not ready. Its obvious.
Rafa got full control about football decisions, he's gonna answer at the end of the year.
Thats gonna be a long and painful season me thinks
He's useless, lightweight and always late on challenges.
Gerrard has to come back deeper on the field and that leaves Torres alone up front.
A Torres who's not fit, always complainig, getting frustrated too quiclky...
The players are not ready. Its obvious.
Rafa got full control about football decisions, he's gonna answer at the end of the year.
Thats gonna be a long and painful season me thinks
442 or Yossi behind the striker.
I'm really having a go at trying to like him this season, giving him a last chance. It's really not happening. Even in the pre season or those first couple of games I couldn't see anything good in him. I suppose it's cos my idea of a CM is either Gerrard/Alonso/Masher what we're used to.
I just think he's gonna do a 'babel'.
I just think he's gonna do a 'babel'.
it's just as well bren is no longer on the site, his comments in this thread would have made for fun reading.
I will never jeer a Liverpool player but if I see one who blatantly isn't good enough for the Premier League let alone a team with title aspirations I reserve the right to come on here and lambast the decision to play him. I don't understand those who defend him with excuses such as he's only 22 or pointing out he wasn't totally useless in one or two games. He is not up to Premier League standard, he never will be - Gerrard in CM and Benny behind Torres until Aquilaini is fit.
the manner in which some posters proclaim a player as ace one game than rubbish in the next is alarming. lucas is all we have for the time being for getting on his back will break him not raise him up. remember when lucas took that corner near the kop v stoke and was applauded by everyone, give a applause and support when a player NEEDS it, it will go a long way to helping the player so one day he will consistantly deserve it.
I think Lucas has raised his game this season, but yesterday he was all over the place. Trying to hard to make an impact, instead of just doing his job.
One thing he must do however, is stop making all those silly fouls. We concede goals after horribly stupid challenges. The one yesterday, from behind again, was horrendous. And God knows why he decided to head that free kick. You dont do that unless youre in control, Reina had it covered. It changed the game, it got to his head and deflated everyone. The 2nd goal was even more stupid. Carra and Torres did a shite job marking. As we always do.
3 personal errors - 3 goals.
Fuck off.
We need a 5-6 game winning streak to get back into this.
One thing he must do however, is stop making all those silly fouls. We concede goals after horribly stupid challenges. The one yesterday, from behind again, was horrendous. And God knows why he decided to head that free kick. You dont do that unless youre in control, Reina had it covered. It changed the game, it got to his head and deflated everyone. The 2nd goal was even more stupid. Carra and Torres did a shite job marking. As we always do.
3 personal errors - 3 goals.
Fuck off.
We need a 5-6 game winning streak to get back into this.
I'll tell you what - he's not a great player by any means and can be a liability at times but he retained the ball a lot better than Gerrard did last night. Gerrard was woeful last night, running around the field like a naive teenager, giving possession away continuously and making completely idiotic tackles in the box. Lucas was clumsy for the foul for the first goal but Gerrard was just plain stupid for the third.
Get off the lads back. He's no Alonso that's for sure but he was nowhere near our worst player last night.
Get off the lads back. He's no Alonso that's for sure but he was nowhere near our worst player last night.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=35441.msg932114#msg932114 date=1251189168]
I'll tell you what - he's not a great player by any means and can be a liability at times but he retained the ball a lot better than Gerrard did last night. Gerrard was woeful last night, running around the field like a naive teenager, giving possession away continuously and making completely idiotic tackles in the box. Lucas was clumsy for the foul for the first goal but Gerrard was just plain stupid for the third.
Get off the lads back. He's no Alonso that's for sure but he was nowhere near our worst player last night.
[/quote]
I'll tell you what - he's not a great player by any means and can be a liability at times but he retained the ball a lot better than Gerrard did last night. Gerrard was woeful last night, running around the field like a naive teenager, giving possession away continuously and making completely idiotic tackles in the box. Lucas was clumsy for the foul for the first goal but Gerrard was just plain stupid for the third.
Get off the lads back. He's no Alonso that's for sure but he was nowhere near our worst player last night.
[/quote]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=35441.msg932114#msg932114 date=1251189168]
I'll tell you what - he's not a great player by any means and can be a liability at times but he retained the ball a lot better than Gerrard did last night. Gerrard was woeful last night, running around the field like a naive teenager, giving possession away continuously and making completely idiotic tackles in the box. Lucas was clumsy for the foul for the first goal but Gerrard was just plain stupid for the third.
Get off the lads back. He's no Alonso that's for sure but he was nowhere near our worst player last night.
[/quote]
No.
He was our worst player because he was the one who ensured we were in the shit in a game we were previously comfortable in, other players indeed were shit last night but Lucas in that firt half moment shone through.
He is not good enough.
End of argument.
I'll tell you what - he's not a great player by any means and can be a liability at times but he retained the ball a lot better than Gerrard did last night. Gerrard was woeful last night, running around the field like a naive teenager, giving possession away continuously and making completely idiotic tackles in the box. Lucas was clumsy for the foul for the first goal but Gerrard was just plain stupid for the third.
Get off the lads back. He's no Alonso that's for sure but he was nowhere near our worst player last night.
[/quote]
No.
He was our worst player because he was the one who ensured we were in the shit in a game we were previously comfortable in, other players indeed were shit last night but Lucas in that firt half moment shone through.
He is not good enough.
End of argument.
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=35441.msg932120#msg932120 date=1251189649]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=35441.msg932114#msg932114 date=1251189168]
I'll tell you what - he's not a great player by any means and can be a liability at times but he retained the ball a lot better than Gerrard did last night. Gerrard was woeful last night, running around the field like a naive teenager, giving possession away continuously and making completely idiotic tackles in the box. Lucas was clumsy for the foul for the first goal but Gerrard was just plain stupid for the third.
Get off the lads back. He's no Alonso that's for sure but he was nowhere near our worst player last night.
[/quote]
No.
He was our worst player because he was the one who ensured we were in the shit in a game we were previously comfortable in, other players indeed were shit last night but Lucas in that firt half moment shone through.
He is not good enough.
End of argument.
[/quote]
I'm not disagreeing he's not good enough. I'm disagreeing he was our worst player last night.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=35441.msg932114#msg932114 date=1251189168]
I'll tell you what - he's not a great player by any means and can be a liability at times but he retained the ball a lot better than Gerrard did last night. Gerrard was woeful last night, running around the field like a naive teenager, giving possession away continuously and making completely idiotic tackles in the box. Lucas was clumsy for the foul for the first goal but Gerrard was just plain stupid for the third.
Get off the lads back. He's no Alonso that's for sure but he was nowhere near our worst player last night.
[/quote]
No.
He was our worst player because he was the one who ensured we were in the shit in a game we were previously comfortable in, other players indeed were shit last night but Lucas in that firt half moment shone through.
He is not good enough.
End of argument.
[/quote]
I'm not disagreeing he's not good enough. I'm disagreeing he was our worst player last night.
I can remember games when Alonso gave away stupid and pointless free kicks that led to goals and changed the game (note the season before he became the infallible Saint Xabi), so damning Lucas for a change that had occurred before the first goal is just being manipulative.
I'd like to know who we'd play instead of Lucas at the moment. The only option as I see it is to go 4-4-2 and drop Gerrard back into midfield, play Kuyt upfront with Nando and play Yossi on the right, Riera/Babel on the left. However I really don't want to see Babel in a red shirt again. He's bone idle and he's just plain thick. He makes the wrong decisions all the time.
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