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Poll Lucas V Spearing

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If one of them had to start a game for LFC which one would you choose?

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[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44730.msg1310360#msg1310360 date=1301985792]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=44730.msg1310357#msg1310357 date=1301985698]
Lucas has more experience. So, Lucas ahead of Spearing.
[/quote]

Poulsen has more experience than Lucas, ergo..
[/quote]

Start a thread Lucas Vs Poulsen then. And then choose Poulsen.
 
They both did so little that it's hard to give an overall summary mate, nevermind postives and/or negatives.

Spearing did his usual of running around a lot and receiving very little of it. That trend of our own players no trusting him enough to pass it to him (preferring to lump it) is growing by the game too.

He made a few tackles, tried a few things but generally did fuck all of any note.

Lucas the same. First half he was nowhere, second half he came into it - won a few decent interceptions, and set us moving, but that said - he still gave it away shockingly a few times. Really sloppy, lazy performance to be honest.

The structure of the midfield with Meireles tucking in was bad. Our shape was if not non-existent - then 'throw-a-blanket-over-it' flat with zero movement forward, or at angles to create space. Very early into the game our defence began bypassing them and humping it to Carroll - a byproduct of them either not trusting Lucas/Spearing, and the two of them not getting into enough space to command the ball.
 
The space thing is an issue I've noticed. Our midfielders aren't very good at finding it. What's more, there is too much dithering for lack of options or ideas, so when they do get the ball (space or no space) the result is being pressured into losing it or playing a poor pass.

That's one thing that has always frustrated me about Lucas. For all his supposed first class technique, it can at times take him an absolute age to receive the ball, control it and look around for a pass.
 
Cheers Ryan, it sounds as bad as I thought. As frustrating as I find it watching Lucas I am now equally frustrated the way we seem to be negating Meireles' threat for the opposition - he's a real talent and we need to involve him continually.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44730.msg1310363#msg1310363 date=1301986705]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44730.msg1310021#msg1310021 date=1301910900]


I don't think that its an extreme example at all. Veron had all the raw materials but never made it in this league.

Had he made it, however, I would defy anyone to have been raging on about how poor he was to begin with while he bangs in 15 a season with 20 assists.
[/quote]

Again I don't see the comparison being anything other than extreme. Lucas does not have the potential to do the things that any of the three players you've mentioned.

At his absolute best he'll be a competent Premiership midfielder - and he's not there yet.

To suggest even in a roundabout way that he could put performances in that would match any of the players you've mentioned above is optimistic bordering on mental.
[/quote]

Rosco, you need to read the thread before commenting on a couple of these posts. I didn't, at any stage, suggest that Lucas was as good as or going to be as good as Ronaldo, Nani or Veron for that matter. My comment was that too many people judge Lucas now on what he did in his first year which, IMO, was poor but still not relevant to his position in the team now. In response JJ said he felt it was entirely relevant. I disagreed and have simply chosen examples of players who were extremely poor or flattered to deceive in their initial years before reaching their potential. Once they achieved that potential (Ronaldo, Nani were two examples) there has been no effort to recall their early years in order to assess their current standing. Nor should there be.

The same applies to Lucas. He will never be Ronaldo or even Nani but he has performed consistently well this season - particularly under Kenny and should be judged accordingly rather than people saying "Yes but, in 2008 his display against Bolton was utter wank.... etc. etc. etc......... so he's just not good enough". IMHO that kind of myopic view is worse than anything Lucas has bought to the table in his time at the club.
 
He hasn't performed consistently well this season, Wiz. He's had maybe 4 or 5 good games, and the rest have ranged from average to poor. It represents an improvement, which in some ways is commendable, but I'm afraid he remains part of the problem, not part of the solution.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44730.msg1309920#msg1309920 date=1301885118]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44730.msg1308993#msg1308993 date=1301689369]
Spearing is clearly naturally a better defensive midfielder, and that's the role they're theoretically fighting over, so it's a fucking no-brainer as far as I'm concerned:

Spearing.
[/quote]

Yes, based on all those games where he'd played as a defensive midfielder and broken up the play, won tackles, and initiated moves with the ball.

There's so many I'm not sure which game to choose really.
[/quote]

He's shown enough of it to prove he's better at it than Lucas.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44730.msg1310373#msg1310373 date=1301988810]
They both did so little that it's hard to give an overall summary mate, nevermind postives and/or negatives.

Spearing did his usual of running around a lot and receiving very little of it. That trend of our own players no trusting him enough to pass it to him (preferring to lump it) is growing by the game too.

He made a few tackles, tried a few things but generally did fuck all of any note.

Lucas the same. First half he was nowhere, second half he came into it - won a few decent interceptions, and set us moving, but that said - he still gave it away shockingly a few times. Really sloppy, lazy performance to be honest.

The structure of the midfield with Meireles tucking in was bad. Our shape was if not non-existent - then 'throw-a-blanket-over-it' flat with zero movement forward, or at angles to create space. Very early into the game our defence began bypassing them and humping it to Carroll - a byproduct of them either not trusting Lucas/Spearing, and the two of them not getting into enough space to command the ball.
[/quote]

He rarely wins interceptions (or even tackles), and he gives it away in bad areas a couple of times over the course of pretty much any match.

I don't necessarily think he's the worst footballer ever, but he's a fucking rubbish holding player.
 
I can't bring myself to vote in this thread. I'll look it up when someone proves me wrong/right.
 
They just shouldnt play together, we get out ran in the midfield when they are together, Raul should be nowhere near that "tucking in" role. The formation was an utter utter disaster on Saturday. Lucas and Spearing will lose us games if played together.
 
It's one or the other as peach says. I still think lucas though
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=44730.msg1310675#msg1310675 date=1302019236]
He hasn't performed consistently well this season, Wiz. He's had maybe 4 or 5 good games, and the rest have ranged from average to poor. It represents an improvement, which in some ways is commendable, but I'm afraid he remains part of the problem, not part of the solution.
[/quote]

An intelligent poster would leave this subject now but, hey ho, I'm a little bored. Everyone on here is more than entitled to their opinion Del and, through KT days to 6CM, you know I have plenty of time for yours. Now far be it from me to look to stats or the opinions of others but the suggestion that he's been average to poor in all but 4 or 5 games is nuts.

While the hyperbole around Lucas is extreme your assesment is in no way balanced. We've played 31 games in the league with 13 wins, 6 draws and 12 losses. Now I haven't been through all the details nor taken into account cup games but I know - as I'm sure you do - that when there's a loss Lucas rarely plays well but, regardless, is the focus of the disappointment from fans.

Somehow, however, Lucas has managed to received votes for a top 3 on the pitch from the fans on 15 occasions this season. I'm willing to bet that none of those came in a losing performance. So, in 15 of our victories or draws this season a fair cross section of our fans (RAWK aren't canvassed 🙂) think he's been one of the top performers.

Of course we don't all fall for that as proof nor do I suggest this means he's been great all season when we've been poor on many occasions. However, while this voting may be a little skewed it's not any where near as skewed as you're suggesting with " 4 or 5 good games and the rest poor to average".

He's been good this season for a team that is sitting 6th in the league and been knocked out of Europe. People can draw scenarios and propositions to fit this but them's the facts.
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=44730.msg1310725#msg1310725 date=1302026331]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44730.msg1310373#msg1310373 date=1301988810]
They both did so little that it's hard to give an overall summary mate, nevermind postives and/or negatives.

Spearing did his usual of running around a lot and receiving very little of it. That trend of our own players no trusting him enough to pass it to him (preferring to lump it) is growing by the game too.

He made a few tackles, tried a few things but generally did fuck all of any note.

Lucas the same. First half he was nowhere, second half he came into it - won a few decent interceptions, and set us moving, but that said - he still gave it away shockingly a few times. Really sloppy, lazy performance to be honest.

The structure of the midfield with Meireles tucking in was bad. Our shape was if not non-existent - then 'throw-a-blanket-over-it' flat with zero movement forward, or at angles to create space. Very early into the game our defence began bypassing them and humping it to Carroll - a byproduct of them either not trusting Lucas/Spearing, and the two of them not getting into enough space to command the ball.
[/quote]

He rarely wins interceptions (or even tackles), [/quote]

This is incorrect by the way.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=44730.msg1310675#msg1310675 date=1302019236]
He hasn't performed consistently well this season, Wiz. He's had maybe 4 or 5 good games, and the rest have ranged from average to poor. It represents an improvement, which in some ways is commendable, but I'm afraid he remains part of the problem, not part of the solution.
[/quote]

Can't argue with that. If anything, you are being overly generous.
 
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=44730.msg1310942#msg1310942 date=1302047772]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=44730.msg1310675#msg1310675 date=1302019236]
He hasn't performed consistently well this season, Wiz. He's had maybe 4 or 5 good games, and the rest have ranged from average to poor. It represents an improvement, which in some ways is commendable, but I'm afraid he remains part of the problem, not part of the solution.
[/quote]

Can't argue with that.


[/quote]

Except the vast majority of fans clearly do.
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44730.msg1310932#msg1310932 date=1302046142]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=44730.msg1310675#msg1310675 date=1302019236]
He hasn't performed consistently well this season, Wiz. He's had maybe 4 or 5 good games, and the rest have ranged from average to poor. It represents an improvement, which in some ways is commendable, but I'm afraid he remains part of the problem, not part of the solution.
[/quote]

An intelligent poster would leave this subject now but, hey ho, I'm a little bored. Everyone on here is more than entitled to their opinion Del and, through KT days to 6CM, you know I have plenty of time for yours. Now far be it from me to look to stats or the opinions of others but the suggestion that he's been average to poor in all but 4 or 5 games is nuts.

While the hyperbole around Lucas is extreme your assesment is in no way balanced. We've played 31 games in the league with 13 wins, 6 draws and 12 losses. Now I haven't been through all the details nor taken into account cup games but I know - as I'm sure you do - that when there's a loss Lucas rarely plays well but, regardless, is the focus of the disappointment from fans.

Somehow, however, Lucas has managed to received votes for a top 3 on the pitch from the fans on 15 occasions this season. I'm willing to bet that none of those came in a losing performance. So, in 15 of our victories or draws this season a fair cross section of our fans (RAWK aren't canvassed 🙂) think he's been one of the top performers.

Of course we don't all fall for that as proof nor do I suggest this means he's been great all season when we've been poor on many occasions. However, while this voting may be a little skewed it's not any where near as skewed as you're suggesting with " 4 or 5 good games and the rest poor to average".

He's been good this season for a team that is sitting 6th in the league and been knocked out of Europe. People can draw scenarios and propositions to fit this but them's the facts.
[/quote]

We've been through this, though. Coming in the top three in a team playing as badly as ours does not mean he's played well. It's a rather pointless exercise in picking the best from a bad bunch. In a season when you can count our good performances on your fingers, a top 3 accolade more often means a player has been average, or a little better than poor (thereby fitting nicely into my 'average to poor' category 😉 ). And as I alluded to before, Lucas' unquestionably good attitude will always stand him in good stead in such polls, particularly when the rest of the team look like they can't be arsed.
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44730.msg1311093#msg1311093 date=1302082295]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=44730.msg1310942#msg1310942 date=1302047772]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=44730.msg1310675#msg1310675 date=1302019236]
He hasn't performed consistently well this season, Wiz. He's had maybe 4 or 5 good games, and the rest have ranged from average to poor. It represents an improvement, which in some ways is commendable, but I'm afraid he remains part of the problem, not part of the solution.
[/quote]

Can't argue with that.

[/quote]

Except the vast majority of fans clearly do.

[/quote]

They don't know what they're on about then, do they?
 
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=44730.msg1311510#msg1311510 date=1302135564]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44730.msg1311093#msg1311093 date=1302082295]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=44730.msg1310942#msg1310942 date=1302047772]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=44730.msg1310675#msg1310675 date=1302019236]
He hasn't performed consistently well this season, Wiz. He's had maybe 4 or 5 good games, and the rest have ranged from average to poor. It represents an improvement, which in some ways is commendable, but I'm afraid he remains part of the problem, not part of the solution.
[/quote]

Can't argue with that.

[/quote]

Except the vast majority of fans clearly do.

[/quote]

They don't know what they're on about then, do they?


[/quote]


Course not - it's always the miniscule minority masking the errors of the masses. :🙂
 
Skysports.com understands Liverpool midfielder Jay Spearing has agreed a new deal at the club.

The 22-year-old has impressed in recent weeks after earning a regular run in the side under Kenny Dalglish.

Spearing has made 13 starts in Liverpool's midfield this season and he has helped fill the void created by Steven Gerrard's long-term injury.

Spearing has played a key role in Liverpool's good form under Dalglish forming an impressive midfield partnership with Lucas

The former FA Youth Cup winning captain was due to enter the final year of his contract at the end of the season, but Liverpool have decided to reward the all-action midfielder with a three-year extension.

The Reds see Spearing as a key part of their future plans and he is set to follow fellow youth product Martin Kelly in pledging his long-term future to the club.
Click to expand...
 
Liverpool midfielder Jay Spearing has today put pen to paper on an extension to his Liverpool contract.

The 22-year-old midfielder, who has made eight appearances for the first team this season, has followed in the footsteps of Lucas Leiva and Dirk Kuyt by committing his future to Anfield.



"He has worked hard and has done very well," said Director of Football Damien Comolli. "He won his place in the team on merit and has showed in the last games that he can raise his game to what we need.

"To be fair to him, it's not only what he has done in the last four or five games that triggered the new contract. We have been talking for quite a while, independently of what he was doing on the field. But that was confirmation that it was the right thing to do.

"His commitment and aggression on the pitch is fantastic and since he has been playing I think he has added some passing quality which we didn't see before. He has started tp get forward more and the more he plays the more he improves. We think he will be part of the future of the club which is why we rewarded him with a new contract.

"He was part of the team which won two Youth Cups and he was telling me when he signed his contract that he has been here since he was seven. It's great for the club to have people like him around and it shows others that if you do well at the Academy then you have a chance of getting new contracts."
Click to expand...
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=44730.msg1311136#msg1311136 date=1302086581]
We've been through this, though. Coming in the top three in a team playing as badly as ours does not mean he's played well. It's a rather pointless exercise in picking the best from a bad bunch. In a season when you can count our good performances on your fingers, a top 3 accolade more often means a player has been average, or a little better than poor (thereby fitting nicely into my 'average to poor' category 😉 ). And as I alluded to before, Lucas' unquestionably good attitude will always stand him in good stead in such polls, particularly when the rest of the team look like they can't be arsed.
[/quote]

I know his shortcomings and I know he's also been unfairly maligned at times too. A month on from when this post was made, he's still getting in the top three players for most games (in many peoples anyway) and we're playing well and winning games convincingly.

He's been the target of most peoples abuse for a longtime when we've lost games, it's good to see people starting to give credit where it's due, he's played a big part in our upturn in form. A few months back people had argued that when the team eventually improved, his mediocrity would stand out, but he's improved with the side, so I guess while not being a spectacular player who will take games by the scruff of the neck, he is (like many), one of those players who plays well as part of a team playing well.

That might be an issue in itself and I'm sure it would be the same for the likes of Fletcher and co up the East Lancs, but not every member of the first XI can be a superstar. We've gotten where we are in the table not just through quality, but through attitude and commitment, and he has it in spades.
 
Good man Jay, you got your chance and you seized it. Good work and well done on your contract, fully deserved. Keep it up.
 
Who'd have thought it six months ago, that we'd be finishing the season so well and with a good central midfield partnership - of Lucas and Spearing?

He's been very good so far.
 
Why does everyone insist on calling Spearing a youngster?

Yeah he's young but he turns 23 later this year.

To put it in perspective he's a year younger than Lucas.

What do we call Robinson if Spearing is a "youngster"?
 
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