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Poll Lucas V Spearing

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If one of them had to start a game for LFC which one would you choose?

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Dancing Brave

Dancing Brave

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Say our midfield was to be....................

Kuyt--------------Gerrard-----------------????------------Meireles

Who fills the gap, Lucas or Spearing?
 
It's a toughie, Spearing hasn't played too much but in terms of practicality, Spearing.
 
Judging from his last performance or two I wouldn't mind seeing Spearing get the nod. However Lucas is enjoying his best Season ever at Liverpool and even though that doesn't say much it's still improvement.
 
Brazilian International, former Brazilian League Player of the year, regularly picked by 3 Liverpool managers and Liverpool captain for a few(?) games.

vs

Jay Spearing.

Sorry Pesam, Spearing's ok and I think he will make a good squaddie; but given a choice between these 2 I would choose Lucas.
 
It's hardly a fair comparison really anyway.

Lucas has played for a few seasons now, week in, week out and shown what he is. I don't mind him, but we do need better in the first team. Spearing has done well on the few occasions he's played and for me personally, looks like he has a bit more in his locker as a more rounded CM (despite his, errr... shortcomings).

As said in the other thread, he looks like he knows when to attack and when to sit. Some of his passing can be intelligent and his shot and his run for the disputed penalty against Sunderland was promising and probably more than we see from Lucas most weeks. Jay looks a bit more industrious too and despite his small frame, looks like he can win a battle or two.
 
To be honest, this is almost laughable. This poll is based largely on Spearing's one decent game for us (never mind the many where he's looked completely out of his depth). If you ever needed proof of the fickleness of football fans then this is it. As much as I've hated watching Lucas start for us every week, to suggest that Spearing is better at this stage is frankly ridiculous.
 
No offence pesam but this is fucking ridiculous.

Lucas has played over 100 games for us and is now a first team regular. He's played countless quality games, many if which have come in the biggest games. He now also seems to be a Brazilian regular too.

Spearing has had one good game for us. One. And even that one I'd argue cos he wasn't that great, and we were handed the win.

Anybody who chooses spearing here is being obstinate for the sake of it.

Not one of your better threads mate.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=44730.msg1306877#msg1306877 date=1301391614]
To be honest, this is almost laughable. This poll is based largely on Spearing's one decent game for us (never mind the many where he's looked completely out of his depth). If you ever needed proof of the fickleness of football fans then this is it. As much as I've hated watching Lucas start for us every week, to suggest that Spearing is better at this stage is frankly ridiculous.
[/quote]

Del, I've seen Spearing at least 15 times between the reserves, on-loan at Leicester last season and some 1st team games and am convinced he's a better player than Lucas. How many tackles do you need to see Lucas lose or free kicks conceded on the edge of our box before you consider most other options viable.

Kleberson has a world cup winners medal, Traore won a CL medal, just because Lucas has been picked by Brazil doesn't make him a good player.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44730.msg1306878#msg1306878 date=1301391692]
No offence pesam but this is fucking ridiculous.

Lucas has played over 100 games for us and is now a first team regular. He's played countless quality games, many if which have come in the biggest games. He now also seems to be a Brazilian regular too.

Spearing has had one good game for us. One. And even that one I'd argue cos he wasn't that great, and we were handed the win.

Anybody who chooses spearing here is being obstinate for the sake of it.

Not one of your better threads mate.
[/quote]

I don't honestly believe Spearing will ever be good enough for a regular starting berth Ryan but if the choice is between the 2 then my dislike of Lucas as a player means there's only one choice.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=44730.msg1306877#msg1306877 date=1301391614]
To be honest, this is almost laughable. This poll is based largely on Spearing's one decent game for us (never mind the many where he's looked completely out of his depth). If you ever needed proof of the fickleness of football fans then this is it. As much as I've hated watching Lucas start for us every week, to suggest that Spearing is better at this stage is frankly ridiculous.
[/quote]

Aye, I agree, but suggesting Lucas is better is equally so, given we've only seen a handful of appearances from Spearing. It's a daft argument because appearances wise, they're incomparable. If Spearing gets a run then fair enough, but you can't dismiss Spearing and consider Lucas as 'better' just because he's played for Liverpool's first team for longer and because he gets picked for Brazil.

Like I said, I don't mind Lucas, mainly because he performs well in the big games and he doesn't let his head drop and gives 100%. Alot of the time though that's not enough because he can appear pretty ordinary and doesn't really excel either way as a midfielder in any sense.
 
Well you're in the minority by quite some distance mate.

The day Jay Spearing plays 100 games for us and gets regular England caps is the day I suck your cock.
 
Lucas has played 100 times for us (a) because Rafa was too stubborn for his own good and (b) latterly for lack of alternatives in his position. He probably gets picked for Brazil because (b) applies to them too at the moment.
 
[quote author=Dancing Brave link=topic=44730.msg1306879#msg1306879 date=1301391931]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=44730.msg1306877#msg1306877 date=1301391614]
To be honest, this is almost laughable. This poll is based largely on Spearing's one decent game for us (never mind the many where he's looked completely out of his depth). If you ever needed proof of the fickleness of football fans then this is it. As much as I've hated watching Lucas start for us every week, to suggest that Spearing is better at this stage is frankly ridiculous.
[/quote]

Del, I've seen Spearing at least 15 times between the reserves, on-loan at Leicester last season and some 1st team games and am convinced he's a better player than Lucas. How many tackles do you need to see Lucas lose or free kicks conceded on the edge of our box before you consider most other options viable.
[/quote]

Lucas has been the Premier League's most successful tackler this season. I'm far from being his biggest fan but you can't ignore his improvement in that particular aspect of the game
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44730.msg1306885#msg1306885 date=1301392246]
Well you're in the minority by quite some distance mate.

The day Jay Spearing plays 100 games for us and gets regular England caps is the day I suck your cock.
[/quote]

Sammy Lee was a fairly limited footballer but he had great energy, read the game well and knew how to tackle. He played for England and many many time for LFC - and Spearing reminds me a lot of him although to be honest probably a lesser version but I'd still like to see him given a chance during the remainder of the season.

Apparently we haven't offered Lucas a new contract and it seems (thankfully) that he's on the way out so why not see what Spearing has to offer?

If Gerrard is fit to face WBA I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Spearing start and Lucas on the bench.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44730.msg1306888#msg1306888 date=1301392505]
Yes, Lucas is currently the only Brazilian midfielder alive.
[/quote]

A whole boatload of quality Brazilian DMs was detained on an island off Darwin the other week, didn't you hear?
 
[quote author=jan link=topic=44730.msg1306891#msg1306891 date=1301392576]

Lucas has been the Premier League's most successful tackler this season. I'm far from being his biggest fan but you can't ignore his improvement in that particular aspect of the game
[/quote]

Has he really? I thought it was just the most tackles attempted rather than most successful?

Anyway, I'd pick Lucas. Spearing is just too unproven and has mostly been poor when I've seen him play. I'd rather keep Spearing than Lucas after this season though.
 
You have to make some assumptions with this one, and the first one is that we are talking about the Spearing of his last couple of games. Against Lucas at his best.
Lucas at his best,, and his worst, during this last 12 months is not a huge margin to be honest, I think he has improved considerably.
Spearing at the moment is either very good or shite, but when he is very good, he brings an energy and tenacity to the midfield which I like. The only way he will improve is to be given a fraction of the chances that Lucas has had.
Ultimately the pair of them are not good enough, but a good Spearing wins it over a good Lucas for me

regards
 
[quote author=Dancing Brave link=topic=44730.msg1306879#msg1306879 date=1301391931]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=44730.msg1306877#msg1306877 date=1301391614]
To be honest, this is almost laughable. This poll is based largely on Spearing's one decent game for us (never mind the many where he's looked completely out of his depth). If you ever needed proof of the fickleness of football fans then this is it. As much as I've hated watching Lucas start for us every week, to suggest that Spearing is better at this stage is frankly ridiculous.
[/quote]

Del, I've seen Spearing at least 15 times between the reserves, on-loan at Leicester last season and some 1st team games and am convinced he's a better player than Lucas. How many tackles do you need to see Lucas lose or free kicks conceded on the edge of our box before you consider most other options viable.

Kleberson has a world cup winners medal, Traore won a CL medal, just because Lucas has been picked by Brazil doesn't make him a good player.
[/quote]

But that's ignoring the fact that three separate managers have decided to select Lucas ahead of Spearing. What does that tell you?

Now, I've hardly sat on the fence with my opinion of Lucas, but as far as I'm concerned his consistent selection is as much an indictment of our lack of strength in his position, as it is a sign of his quality. Lucas is a horrendously average footballer. He's preferred, presumably, because three separate managers didn't, or don't think Spearing would offer any more. And barring the one recent exception, they're all correct.

I'm really not sure what you can garner from reserve games and a handful of games for a Championship club. There have been so many players who have flourished in the reserves only to later find their level in lower divisions or for shit clubs overseas. And if you've seen such potential in him, then why has nobody else seen it? It's not like there's been hordes of Premiership managers lining up to take him off our hands, is it?

It may be that, had Spearing been given the opportunities that Lucas has, he would have done slightly better. Who knows. The simple fact is however, that neither him or Lucas are good enough to play regularly for a team with ambition, and I suspect that neither will feature a great deal in Kenny's plans next season. And however poor Lucas has been for the majority of his Liverpool career, I'm pretty certain that if they had to select one to affect an important game, the vast majority of fans, and indeed managers, would opt for Lucas.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=44730.msg1306907#msg1306907 date=1301394022]
But that's ignoring the fact that three separate managers have decided to select Lucas ahead of Spearing. What does that tell you?

[/quote]

Rafa bought Lucas, and persisted with him in the face of criticism and adversity. Arguably in his final season here it was one of the 'on the pitch' problems that continued to hamper us and ultimately led to his downfall. It wasn't always Lucas' fault as he was picked alot of the time in the wrong partnership in midfield (ie, alongside Masher). He always looked better alongside a passer, like Gerrard, Aquilani or Alonso.

Roy Hodgson - are you really gonna give any credence to his tactical decisions? Besides, we had no one else and tbf to Roy, he did start to give Jay a chance in Europe.

Kenny - As said, there's no one else available. The club haven't offered him a new deal and now Spearing is getting opportunities too. We've got Gerrard and Ming, yet Kenny seems intent in his pursuit of Charlie Adam. Meanwhile we're being linked with DM's too.

I don't think it's particularly fair or justifiable to say that three managers have put their faith in him, not when there are so many other factors involved, like the fact Rafa was too stubborn to drop the lad and then left us in a situation where he was the only (converted) DM left at the club.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=44730.msg1306907#msg1306907 date=1301394022]
[quote author=Dancing Brave link=topic=44730.msg1306879#msg1306879 date=1301391931]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=44730.msg1306877#msg1306877 date=1301391614]
To be honest, this is almost laughable. This poll is based largely on Spearing's one decent game for us (never mind the many where he's looked completely out of his depth). If you ever needed proof of the fickleness of football fans then this is it. As much as I've hated watching Lucas start for us every week, to suggest that Spearing is better at this stage is frankly ridiculous.
[/quote]

Del, I've seen Spearing at least 15 times between the reserves, on-loan at Leicester last season and some 1st team games and am convinced he's a better player than Lucas. How many tackles do you need to see Lucas lose or free kicks conceded on the edge of our box before you consider most other options viable.

Kleberson has a world cup winners medal, Traore won a CL medal, just because Lucas has been picked by Brazil doesn't make him a good player.
[/quote]

But that's ignoring the fact that three separate managers have decided to select Lucas ahead of Spearing. What does that tell you?


[/quote]

Not a lot really Del. Benitez had a compulsion to keep playing Lucas, Hodgson thought Poulsen was a good option too, Kenny seems to be giving Spearing a chance.
As you have pointed out just because they have picked Lucas , does not make him a good player, there have been few alternatives, given the experience Lucas has somehow ended up with.

regards
 
I'll be honest and say Lucas. However, if the other fella had have been called Jayinho Speringio and got a stack of games on the back of that, things may be different.
 
Del my selection of Spearing has more to do with Lucas' inadequacies than Spearing's ability. I've seen that many games featuring Lucas that make me wonder what he actually adds to our team that I'd be prepared to select Spearing based on the relatively few times I've seen him and with the sad realisation that even if Spearing flopped we'd be no worse off than if Lucas had been selected.

Also, having seen John Welsh & Darren Potter play for the first team I never understood why they were given a chance as it was painfully obvious that neither of them would come close to making the grade, with Spearing there is an outside chance he actually could do a job for us.

Potter & Welsh are both plying their trade in the 1st division now but i would confidently predict that if Spearing doesn't end up making the grade with us he will still end up at a Premier League club.
 
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=44730.msg1306915#msg1306915 date=1301394659]
I'll be honest and say Lucas. However, if the other fella had have been called Jayinho Speringio and got a stack of games on the back of that, things may be different.


[/quote]

Exactly
 
[quote author=Dancing Brave link=topic=44730.msg1306917#msg1306917 date=1301394752]
Del my selection of Spearing has more to do with Lucas' inadequacies than Spearing's ability. I've seen that many games featuring Lucas that make me wonder what he actually adds to our team that I'd be prepared to select Spearing based on the relatively few times I've seen him and with the sad realisation that even if Spearing flopped we'd be no worse off than if Lucas had been selected.

Also, having seen John Welsh & Darren Potter play for the first team I never understood why they were given a chance as it was painfully obvious that neither of them would come close to making the grade, with Spearing there is an outside chance he actually could do a job for us.

Potter & Welsh are both plying their trade in the 1st division now but i would confidently predict that if Spearing doesn't end up making the grade with us he will still end up at a Premier League club.
[/quote]

Fair enough. I think perhaps had your poll question been something along the lines of: "Do you think Spearing should be given more opportunities this season ahead of Lucas?" then perhaps it would have been less controversial. I imagine if we valued Lucas, we would have offered him a new contract by now, and with this season being pretty much a write off, I wouldn't be against exploring Spearing as an option, if only to see if he is worth clinging on to. (I doubt it though, to be honest.)
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=44730.msg1306931#msg1306931 date=1301396209]
[quote author=Dancing Brave link=topic=44730.msg1306917#msg1306917 date=1301394752]
Del my selection of Spearing has more to do with Lucas' inadequacies than Spearing's ability. I've seen that many games featuring Lucas that make me wonder what he actually adds to our team that I'd be prepared to select Spearing based on the relatively few times I've seen him and with the sad realisation that even if Spearing flopped we'd be no worse off than if Lucas had been selected.

Also, having seen John Welsh & Darren Potter play for the first team I never understood why they were given a chance as it was painfully obvious that neither of them would come close to making the grade, with Spearing there is an outside chance he actually could do a job for us.

Potter & Welsh are both plying their trade in the 1st division now but i would confidently predict that if Spearing doesn't end up making the grade with us he will still end up at a Premier League club.
[/quote]

Fair enough. I think perhaps had your poll question been something along the lines of: "Do you think Spearing should be given more opportunities this season ahead of Lucas?" then perhaps it would have been less controversial. I imagine if we valued Lucas, we would have offered him a new contract by now, and with this season being pretty much a write off, I wouldn't be against exploring Spearing as an option, if only to see if he is worth clinging on to. (I doubt it though, to be honest.)
[/quote]

Yeah I suppose that was a better way of wording it. I think the vast majority of us are 100% convinced Lucas is not the answer and even though there's less than 5% chance Spearing is the answer let's find out.
 
I would fucking love to see the back of Lucas.
That said in answer to the question I would have to pick Lucas due to fact he is more experienced. I think most would agree (bar Ryan maybe) that if we want to finish top 4 next season Lucas needs to play very few league games for us.

I'd sell both of them and buy McCarthy.
 
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=44730.msg1306942#msg1306942 date=1301398518]
I would fucking love to see the back of Lucas.
That said in answer to the question I would have to pick Lucas due to fact he is more experienced. I think most would agree (bar Ryan maybe) that if we want to finish top 4 next season Lucas needs to play very few league games for us.

I'd sell both of them and buy McCarthy.
[/quote]

Ditto. How good is McCarthy in the tackle Stu? Never seen much of him to be honest. Just that great goal he scored earlier in the season. I'd like to sell both and Bring in M'Villa and Adam. Get about 10 million for Lucas and Spearing and spend 20 on the other two. Instant better midfield.
 
With the number of minutes played in Spearing's senior career, I think the fairer comparison would be against Lucas in his first season. Is Spearing further along now than Lucas was when he made his debut in the league? Maybe, but we'll need to see Spearing in a stretch of games to see.

How does Kenny rate Spearing though?

I think it's worth noting that after Kenny's arrival, it was Shelvey who was getting into the squad and onto the pitch ahead of Spearing (and Spearing was not injured at that time). Spearing has only come back into contention recently as he's recovered from his own injuries earlier than Shelvey. When Shelvey is ready to return, it'll be interesting to see if Spearing can keep his place on the bench.

Between the two, I see Shelvey as the better-sized and more versatile, all-action type player in the Gerrard mold, which means that he could offer more options off the bench. If we buy a solid holding midfielder upgrade in the summer, I'd like us to give Lucas a new contract and have him on the bench with Shelvey, while at the same time sending Spearing on loan to a newly-promoted club to get serious minutes.

We can then decide at the end of next season which of Lucas or Spearing to keep as the backup player in the seasons ahead. By then, both of them should be able to command better prices (one with a longer contract, the other with extended minutes to show his worth).
 
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