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Liverpool, Wataru upto?

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Endo seems like he’ll be easy to root for. Wear-his-heart on the sleeve type of player, and Klopp clearly loves those types. Now it’s totally possible to root for such a player, and also despair at our transfer strategy. Those two aren’t mutually incompatible at all.

I will take great pleasure in watching an underdog on the pitch and proving his doubters wrong, but let’s be clear, our recruitment strategy is an absolute mess:

  1. The very rationale of selling Fabinho and Henderson was that they were ageing players in terminal decline, and that we’d never see such money for them ever game. That entire rationale (and a good chunk of the money gained from selling them) has now gone towards a player who’s older than Fabinho, who will inevitably decline and leave on a free.
  2. The idea that a 30-year old player who’s never played at the highest level, will suddenly come to one of the toughest leagues in the world, and play like a top-end DM is fanciful. There’s not even a handful of players who’ve come to the PL aged 30 and done anything great here. And those include some absolutely world class players like Shevchenko, Thiago etc.
  3. Endo has never played at a high-level. His 6 years in Europe have been for not even mid-table teams. Stuttgart were a division 2 team when he joined, and they’ve basically battled relegation in all the seasons he was there bar one. Sint-Truden are a mid-table team in Belgium. He’s never once played in a European competition.
  4. The idea that he is some hidden gem is delusional. If he were truly a top end talent, it is inconceivable that not a single bigger team in Germany or a Europa league team across Europe didn’t think of buying him.
  5. It may well be true that he’s an underrated and solid footballer. We’ve seen loads of those across the years in England, and it’s possible he’s pretty decent. The idea however that he can be someone playing 3000+ minutes for a team with top 4 or title aspirations in the most difficult league in the world is laughable.
  6. At the very best, he’ll be good enough to be a 1200-1800 minute contributor on a good team, and will be a highly committed and capable professional. Nothing wrong with that, but we desperately need more than that.

There’s a genuine concern that we’re unrecognisable as a Klopp team anymore. 2018-2022, we were one of the most physical and athletic teams in Europe with top-end athletes across the pitch. At the back, we had VVD – the best 1v1 CB on the planet, two pacy young full-backs with relentless running power. Protected by a midfield who had an absolute duel king in Fabinho at no. 6 (easily a top 5 player in his position in Europe), flanked by two defensive-minded running monsters in Hendo and Gini. Gini in particular had top-tier upper body strength, and was virtually impossible to dispossess. Up front, we had two of the paciest and most physical 1v1 wide forwards, and in the middle we had the absolute gold standard for forward pressing in Bobby. What could you do against this team physically? We’d win most of our games before we stepped on the pitch, because everyone knew they didn’t have a hope in hell to outrun, outpace or outfight us. Even the brilliant teams like City or Bayern were scared of us.

Where are we today from a physical standpoint? Declined at every single area on the pitch. van Dijk is a shadow of himself, and Robertson is clearly declining as an athlete. Matip and Gomez have declined so much that they are borderline liabilities. Konate is the only standout athlete, but the jury is very much out on his ability to stay fit. Trent is still in his athletic prime, but has lost all interest in defending.

The midfield? Fabinho, Hendo and Gini have all left. Macallister and Szoboszlai have pretty strong profiles as runners and pressers, but they are more offensive minded, and don’t have the ability at duels than Hendo and Gini had. At DM, we now have an 18 year old who’s too raw to frankly offer anything more than 1200 minutes, and a 30 year old who’s never played at the top level. He has no business playing more than 1500 minutes for a top team either. Who will take be the 3000+ minute player at DM then?

In attack also, we’ve declined physically. Salah is still quick, but obviously not as quick or strong at 1v1s as he was 4 years ago. Diaz is rapid, but nowhere as strong or physical as Mane. Gakpo is pretty skilled and a better finisher than Bobby, but isn’t even in the same stratosphere as a presser. Darwin is a top-class athlete, but the jury is fully out on his footballing IQ.

Where does that leave us then? At a technical level, there’s an argument to be made that the present team is better than the 2018-2022 team. We do have some excellent players on the ball now with Salah, Macallister, Szoboszali, Diaz, Gakpo and even Elliott and Jones. But they are nowhere as physical or athletic.

In defence and midfield, we are just significantly worse in almost every respect. We had a desperate need to add TWO top-tier athletes at LCB and DM, and we haven’t done that yet.

My prediction is that we will play quite well against the lower teams by virtue of our sheer technical superiority and will score a ton of goals in these games. I can see us doing pretty well in the Europa League as well for that reason. I think we’ll struggle however against the top 6 sides, or any well-coached team with a good press and physical players. We just don’t have the ability to consistently win 1v1 battles or pressing battles anymore. That’s my biggest concern because that was practically the identity of a Klopp team.
All valid points, but I'd like to see what this team can do this season.
There's definitely a few question marks here and there, but I'm hoping for some positive surprises, some break out seasons so to speak. We definitely need that in order to challenge.
Our defence scares me though. We're about one injury from disaster.
4 solid starters backed up by 4 players surrounded by question marks. It's not a good look.
 
Endo seems like he’ll be easy to root for. Wear-his-heart on the sleeve type of player, and Klopp clearly loves those types. Now it’s totally possible to root for such a player, and also despair at our transfer strategy. Those two aren’t mutually incompatible at all.

I will take great pleasure in watching an underdog on the pitch and proving his doubters wrong, but let’s be clear, our recruitment strategy is an absolute mess:

  1. The very rationale of selling Fabinho and Henderson was that they were ageing players in terminal decline, and that we’d never see such money for them ever game. That entire rationale (and a good chunk of the money gained from selling them) has now gone towards a player who’s older than Fabinho, who will inevitably decline and leave on a free.
  2. The idea that a 30-year old player who’s never played at the highest level, will suddenly come to one of the toughest leagues in the world, and play like a top-end DM is fanciful. There’s not even a handful of players who’ve come to the PL aged 30 and done anything great here. And those include some absolutely world class players like Shevchenko, Thiago etc.
  3. Endo has never played at a high-level. His 6 years in Europe have been for not even mid-table teams. Stuttgart were a division 2 team when he joined, and they’ve basically battled relegation in all the seasons he was there bar one. Sint-Truden are a mid-table team in Belgium. He’s never once played in a European competition.
  4. The idea that he is some hidden gem is delusional. If he were truly a top end talent, it is inconceivable that not a single bigger team in Germany or a Europa league team across Europe didn’t think of buying him.
  5. It may well be true that he’s an underrated and solid footballer. We’ve seen loads of those across the years in England, and it’s possible he’s pretty decent. The idea however that he can be someone playing 3000+ minutes for a team with top 4 or title aspirations in the most difficult league in the world is laughable.
  6. At the very best, he’ll be good enough to be a 1200-1800 minute contributor on a good team, and will be a highly committed and capable professional. Nothing wrong with that, but we desperately need more than that.

There’s a genuine concern that we’re unrecognisable as a Klopp team anymore. 2018-2022, we were one of the most physical and athletic teams in Europe with top-end athletes across the pitch. At the back, we had VVD – the best 1v1 CB on the planet, two pacy young full-backs with relentless running power. Protected by a midfield who had an absolute duel king in Fabinho at no. 6 (easily a top 5 player in his position in Europe), flanked by two defensive-minded running monsters in Hendo and Gini. Gini in particular had top-tier upper body strength, and was virtually impossible to dispossess. Up front, we had two of the paciest and most physical 1v1 wide forwards, and in the middle we had the absolute gold standard for forward pressing in Bobby. What could you do against this team physically? We’d win most of our games before we stepped on the pitch, because everyone knew they didn’t have a hope in hell to outrun, outpace or outfight us. Even the brilliant teams like City or Bayern were scared of us.

Where are we today from a physical standpoint? Declined at every single area on the pitch. van Dijk is a shadow of himself, and Robertson is clearly declining as an athlete. Matip and Gomez have declined so much that they are borderline liabilities. Konate is the only standout athlete, but the jury is very much out on his ability to stay fit. Trent is still in his athletic prime, but has lost all interest in defending.

The midfield? Fabinho, Hendo and Gini have all left. Macallister and Szoboszlai have pretty strong profiles as runners and pressers, but they are more offensive minded, and don’t have the ability at duels than Hendo and Gini had. At DM, we now have an 18 year old who’s too raw to frankly offer anything more than 1200 minutes, and a 30 year old who’s never played at the top level. He has no business playing more than 1500 minutes for a top team either. Who will take be the 3000+ minute player at DM then?

In attack also, we’ve declined physically. Salah is still quick, but obviously not as quick or strong at 1v1s as he was 4 years ago. Diaz is rapid, but nowhere as strong or physical as Mane. Gakpo is pretty skilled and a better finisher than Bobby, but isn’t even in the same stratosphere as a presser. Darwin is a top-class athlete, but the jury is fully out on his footballing IQ.

Where does that leave us then? At a technical level, there’s an argument to be made that the present team is better than the 2018-2022 team. We do have some excellent players on the ball now with Salah, Macallister, Szoboszali, Diaz, Gakpo and even Elliott and Jones. But they are nowhere as physical or athletic.

In defence and midfield, we are just significantly worse in almost every respect. We had a desperate need to add TWO top-tier athletes at LCB and DM, and we haven’t done that yet.

My prediction is that we will play quite well against the lower teams by virtue of our sheer technical superiority and will score a ton of goals in these games. I can see us doing pretty well in the Europa League as well for that reason. I think we’ll struggle however against the top 6 sides, or any well-coached team with a good press and physical players. We just don’t have the ability to consistently win 1v1 battles or pressing battles anymore. That’s my biggest concern because that was practically the identity of a Klopp team.
Whilst I agree with a great many of those comments I'm also wondering why we have to replicate the strengths of that great Klopp team? Is this not a regeneration / evolution and is Klopp not developing a new style more suitable for 2023 onwards?
I also disagree we'll necessarily struggle against Top 6 sides. Chelsea will be that and we pulverised them for 30 mins. Albeit they now have Caiceido but we were also without a DM (which cost us) and had 3 players playing out of position.
 
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Endo seems like he’ll be easy to root for. Wear-his-heart on the sleeve type of player, and Klopp clearly loves those types. Now it’s totally possible to root for such a player, and also despair at our transfer strategy. Those two aren’t mutually incompatible at all.

I will take great pleasure in watching an underdog on the pitch and proving his doubters wrong, but let’s be clear, our recruitment strategy is an absolute mess:

  1. The very rationale of selling Fabinho and Henderson was that they were ageing players in terminal decline, and that we’d never see such money for them ever game. That entire rationale (and a good chunk of the money gained from selling them) has now gone towards a player who’s older than Fabinho, who will inevitably decline and leave on a free.
  2. The idea that a 30-year old player who’s never played at the highest level, will suddenly come to one of the toughest leagues in the world, and play like a top-end DM is fanciful. There’s not even a handful of players who’ve come to the PL aged 30 and done anything great here. And those include some absolutely world class players like Shevchenko, Thiago etc.
  3. Endo has never played at a high-level. His 6 years in Europe have been for not even mid-table teams. Stuttgart were a division 2 team when he joined, and they’ve basically battled relegation in all the seasons he was there bar one. Sint-Truden are a mid-table team in Belgium. He’s never once played in a European competition.
  4. The idea that he is some hidden gem is delusional. If he were truly a top end talent, it is inconceivable that not a single bigger team in Germany or a Europa league team across Europe didn’t think of buying him.
  5. It may well be true that he’s an underrated and solid footballer. We’ve seen loads of those across the years in England, and it’s possible he’s pretty decent. The idea however that he can be someone playing 3000+ minutes for a team with top 4 or title aspirations in the most difficult league in the world is laughable.
  6. At the very best, he’ll be good enough to be a 1200-1800 minute contributor on a good team, and will be a highly committed and capable professional. Nothing wrong with that, but we desperately need more than that.

There’s a genuine concern that we’re unrecognisable as a Klopp team anymore. 2018-2022, we were one of the most physical and athletic teams in Europe with top-end athletes across the pitch. At the back, we had VVD – the best 1v1 CB on the planet, two pacy young full-backs with relentless running power. Protected by a midfield who had an absolute duel king in Fabinho at no. 6 (easily a top 5 player in his position in Europe), flanked by two defensive-minded running monsters in Hendo and Gini. Gini in particular had top-tier upper body strength, and was virtually impossible to dispossess. Up front, we had two of the paciest and most physical 1v1 wide forwards, and in the middle we had the absolute gold standard for forward pressing in Bobby. What could you do against this team physically? We’d win most of our games before we stepped on the pitch, because everyone knew they didn’t have a hope in hell to outrun, outpace or outfight us. Even the brilliant teams like City or Bayern were scared of us.

Where are we today from a physical standpoint? Declined at every single area on the pitch. van Dijk is a shadow of himself, and Robertson is clearly declining as an athlete. Matip and Gomez have declined so much that they are borderline liabilities. Konate is the only standout athlete, but the jury is very much out on his ability to stay fit. Trent is still in his athletic prime, but has lost all interest in defending.

The midfield? Fabinho, Hendo and Gini have all left. Macallister and Szoboszlai have pretty strong profiles as runners and pressers, but they are more offensive minded, and don’t have the ability at duels than Hendo and Gini had. At DM, we now have an 18 year old who’s too raw to frankly offer anything more than 1200 minutes, and a 30 year old who’s never played at the top level. He has no business playing more than 1500 minutes for a top team either. Who will take be the 3000+ minute player at DM then?

In attack also, we’ve declined physically. Salah is still quick, but obviously not as quick or strong at 1v1s as he was 4 years ago. Diaz is rapid, but nowhere as strong or physical as Mane. Gakpo is pretty skilled and a better finisher than Bobby, but isn’t even in the same stratosphere as a presser. Darwin is a top-class athlete, but the jury is fully out on his footballing IQ.

Where does that leave us then? At a technical level, there’s an argument to be made that the present team is better than the 2018-2022 team. We do have some excellent players on the ball now with Salah, Macallister, Szoboszali, Diaz, Gakpo and even Elliott and Jones. But they are nowhere as physical or athletic.

In defence and midfield, we are just significantly worse in almost every respect. We had a desperate need to add TWO top-tier athletes at LCB and DM, and we haven’t done that yet.

My prediction is that we will play quite well against the lower teams by virtue of our sheer technical superiority and will score a ton of goals in these games. I can see us doing pretty well in the Europa League as well for that reason. I think we’ll struggle however against the top 6 sides, or any well-coached team with a good press and physical players. We just don’t have the ability to consistently win 1v1 battles or pressing battles anymore. That’s my biggest concern because that was practically the identity of a Klopp team.

Im depressed now.
 
Early days, but he seemed quite cumbersome in his movement. Hopefully that's him coming to terms with the pace of the league and not because he's painfully slow from an athletic point of view. Doesn't matter if can run all day if he's five yards off the pace. That would basically make him a Milner replacement.
 
Legendo. Been here 5 mins and has a good debut in a 10 vs 11 game.
He’ll be very good for us, no doubt. Our new defensive minded Milner.
 
Looks slow and weak and non athletic, however that was a very impressive first 30 minutes. Played some good forwards passes and didn’t hide, looking for the call continuously from the CB’s.

Me Likey.
 
I swear some of you must be watching a different game. Or didn't watch at all.

Slow ? He's brought in as a DM, not a winger. We were largely dominating in possession which meant he didn't have to do much. The little he had to do, i thought he did exceptionally well. His first few touches, he basically won the ball back for us, and the crowd cheered.

I dont remember him giving the ball away either, and he stopped their attacks a few times too.

Slow, weak and unathletic? HAHAHAHA. Seriously, i don't know why i even bother.
 
I swear some of you must be watching a different game. Or didn't watch at all.

Slow ? He's brought in as a DM, not a winger. We were largely dominating in possession which meant he didn't have to do much. The little he had to do, i thought he did exceptionally well. His first few touches, he basically won the ball back for us, and the crowd cheered.

I dont remember him giving the ball away either, and he stopped their attacks a few times too.

Slow, weak and unathletic? HAHAHAHA. Seriously, i don't know why i even bother.
He was pushed off the ball once in the game, where he thought he could get a foul, which has led to the conclusion that he is weak. Amazing isn’t it.
 
He was pushed off the ball once in the game, where he thought he could get a foul, which has led to the conclusion that he is weak. Amazing isn’t it.

He will learn from it, not too worried about that. But he doesn’t have long legs and that could be a problem if he is your primary ball-winner - he’ll win his tackles when he’s in a good position, but probably give away tons of free-kicks when he tries to do it from behind or other disadvantages positions.
 
He will learn from it, not too worried about that. But he doesn’t have long legs and that could be a problem if he is your primary ball-winner - he’ll win his tackles when he’s in a good position, but probably give away tons of free-kicks when he tries to do it from behind or other disadvantages positions.

Mascherano would beg to differ! 🙂
 
He’s neither the new Mascherano nor the the new Christian Poulsen - he’ll be somewhere between the two.

Best we can hope for is he’s closer to Masher than Poulsen and we’re not loaning him back this time next year to some mid-table Bundesliga side, after not being able to reach the level required of a top EPL team.
 
Endo seems like he’ll be easy to root for. Wear-his-heart on the sleeve type of player, and Klopp clearly loves those types. Now it’s totally possible to root for such a player, and also despair at our transfer strategy. Those two aren’t mutually incompatible at all.

I will take great pleasure in watching an underdog on the pitch and proving his doubters wrong, but let’s be clear, our recruitment strategy is an absolute mess:

  1. The very rationale of selling Fabinho and Henderson was that they were ageing players in terminal decline, and that we’d never see such money for them ever game. That entire rationale (and a good chunk of the money gained from selling them) has now gone towards a player who’s older than Fabinho, who will inevitably decline and leave on a free.
  2. The idea that a 30-year old player who’s never played at the highest level, will suddenly come to one of the toughest leagues in the world, and play like a top-end DM is fanciful. There’s not even a handful of players who’ve come to the PL aged 30 and done anything great here. And those include some absolutely world class players like Shevchenko, Thiago etc.
  3. Endo has never played at a high-level. His 6 years in Europe have been for not even mid-table teams. Stuttgart were a division 2 team when he joined, and they’ve basically battled relegation in all the seasons he was there bar one. Sint-Truden are a mid-table team in Belgium. He’s never once played in a European competition.
  4. The idea that he is some hidden gem is delusional. If he were truly a top end talent, it is inconceivable that not a single bigger team in Germany or a Europa league team across Europe didn’t think of buying him.
  5. It may well be true that he’s an underrated and solid footballer. We’ve seen loads of those across the years in England, and it’s possible he’s pretty decent. The idea however that he can be someone playing 3000+ minutes for a team with top 4 or title aspirations in the most difficult league in the world is laughable.
  6. At the very best, he’ll be good enough to be a 1200-1800 minute contributor on a good team, and will be a highly committed and capable professional. Nothing wrong with that, but we desperately need more than that.

There’s a genuine concern that we’re unrecognisable as a Klopp team anymore. 2018-2022, we were one of the most physical and athletic teams in Europe with top-end athletes across the pitch. At the back, we had VVD – the best 1v1 CB on the planet, two pacy young full-backs with relentless running power. Protected by a midfield who had an absolute duel king in Fabinho at no. 6 (easily a top 5 player in his position in Europe), flanked by two defensive-minded running monsters in Hendo and Gini. Gini in particular had top-tier upper body strength, and was virtually impossible to dispossess. Up front, we had two of the paciest and most physical 1v1 wide forwards, and in the middle we had the absolute gold standard for forward pressing in Bobby. What could you do against this team physically? We’d win most of our games before we stepped on the pitch, because everyone knew they didn’t have a hope in hell to outrun, outpace or outfight us. Even the brilliant teams like City or Bayern were scared of us.

Where are we today from a physical standpoint? Declined at every single area on the pitch. van Dijk is a shadow of himself, and Robertson is clearly declining as an athlete. Matip and Gomez have declined so much that they are borderline liabilities. Konate is the only standout athlete, but the jury is very much out on his ability to stay fit. Trent is still in his athletic prime, but has lost all interest in defending.

The midfield? Fabinho, Hendo and Gini have all left. Macallister and Szoboszlai have pretty strong profiles as runners and pressers, but they are more offensive minded, and don’t have the ability at duels than Hendo and Gini had. At DM, we now have an 18 year old who’s too raw to frankly offer anything more than 1200 minutes, and a 30 year old who’s never played at the top level. He has no business playing more than 1500 minutes for a top team either. Who will take be the 3000+ minute player at DM then?

In attack also, we’ve declined physically. Salah is still quick, but obviously not as quick or strong at 1v1s as he was 4 years ago. Diaz is rapid, but nowhere as strong or physical as Mane. Gakpo is pretty skilled and a better finisher than Bobby, but isn’t even in the same stratosphere as a presser. Darwin is a top-class athlete, but the jury is fully out on his footballing IQ.

Where does that leave us then? At a technical level, there’s an argument to be made that the present team is better than the 2018-2022 team. We do have some excellent players on the ball now with Salah, Macallister, Szoboszali, Diaz, Gakpo and even Elliott and Jones. But they are nowhere as physical or athletic.

In defence and midfield, we are just significantly worse in almost every respect. We had a desperate need to add TWO top-tier athletes at LCB and DM, and we haven’t done that yet.

My prediction is that we will play quite well against the lower teams by virtue of our sheer technical superiority and will score a ton of goals in these games. I can see us doing pretty well in the Europa League as well for that reason. I think we’ll struggle however against the top 6 sides, or any well-coached team with a good press and physical players. We just don’t have the ability to consistently win 1v1 battles or pressing battles anymore. That’s my biggest concern because that was practically the identity of a Klopp team.

This all seems like very sound analysis to me.

I'm not really sure I care though. Firstly, because the Klopp MO as you describe it seems to me a bad strategy for winning titles (as compared with the Pep way of dominating possession and having enough skill to break packed defences), and secondly because it was just never much fun to watch. It all just seemed like a grim solution to the problem of winning the title by any means necessary, and that's fair enough - it worked - but I don't want to watch it forever.
 
This all seems like very sound analysis to me.

I'm not really sure I care though. Firstly, because the Klopp MO as you describe it seems to me a bad strategy for winning titles (as compared with the Pep way of dominating possession and having enough skill to break packed defences), and secondly because it was just never much fun to watch. It all just seemed like a grim solution to the problem of winning the title by any means necessary, and that's fair enough - it worked - but I don't want to watch it forever.

Pep’s way is the most expensive though
 
Thanks. I had a tough job remembering but he kept it tight, didn't take risks and made some good, well timed, tackles. As well as advancing the ball nicely. He'll do just fine for us.
He also got caught in possession a few times.. He did OK . Let's remember we were only playing Bournemouth and really not fair to judge him coming on with us down to 10 men but was also a good test for him
 
I swear some of you must be watching a different game. Or didn't watch at all.

Slow ? He's brought in as a DM, not a winger. We were largely dominating in possession which meant he didn't have to do much. The little he had to do, i thought he did exceptionally well. His first few touches, he basically won the ball back for us, and the crowd cheered.

I dont remember him giving the ball away either, and he stopped their attacks a few times too.

Slow, weak and unathletic? HAHAHAHA. Seriously, i don't know why i even bother.
He did give it away a few times... Remember one clearly where he got caught in possession and was easily knocked off the ball and fell over...
 
Even if he is OK, there is no chance he will be able to play every game.
We desperately need to sign the DM who will be first choice leaving Endo as the League Cup, FA Cup , emergency fill in and bench warmer that he should be.
There is 80 plus million quid left on the table and it would be nice to think it is going to be on the pitch before long.
 
Not sure about that at all.

Yeah, it is. Barca paid the highest salary out of any sports team when Guardiola was there.

You need the players that have the best technique and who are pretty good, if not great, athletes. That combination is expensive.
 
Yeah, it is. Barca paid the highest salary out of any sports team when Guardiola was there.

You need the players that have the best technique and who are pretty good, if not great, athletes. That combination is expensive.

At City he's mostly done it with good not great footballers like B Silva, Mahrez, Grealish etc.

Just because City pay top dollar for them, doesn't mean they're actually world class talents. City have never had any more world class actual individuals than we have. They just combine players of a similar overall quality to better effect than we do.
 
At City he's mostly done it with good not great footballers like B Silva, Mahrez, Grealish etc.

Just because City pay top dollar for them, doesn't mean they're actually world class talents. City have never had any more world class actual individuals than we have. They just combine players of a similar overall quality to better effect than we do.

They also have that similar quality of player in greater depth than we can afford to. The lack of dropoff when they rotate is their real resource imo.
 
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