Liverpool vs West Brom Pre Match
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Our start to the season was played using 4 at the back and our more iffy results (Southampton, Swansea, Newcastle) have all been with 3 at the back...
In my view, our midfield problems wouldn't be fixed by a CB filling in there, it is more the player(s) in between a deep lying DM and a no.10 where we are lacking - someone to retain the ball and act as a playmaker. With Stevie dropping so deep these days, that is where we end up with gaps in the midfield and is somewhere that Hendo/Allen could play, or where maybe Rodgers should be asking Stevie to position himself.
I don't think Agger/Sakho would do Lucas' role to anywhere near the standard that he does.
T
the_khl
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There's a proper risk Agger would break into two halves having to track back and forth repeatedly in the DM position.
Set up
West Brom's greatest quality is their willingness to work for each other and play as a team. Whilst the differences are subtle, I see their set up more as a 4-4-1-1 rather than a 4-2-3-1 based on the mandate of the wide midfielders and the role of Sessegnon as the link man between midfield and attack.
Steve Clarke has settled on his defence and 2 holding midfielders this season with the rotation happening at the other end of the pitch. The quartet of McAuley & Olsson in central defence and Mulumbu & Yacob holding the midfield ahead of them is one of the more robust & uncompromising in the league. They are complimented by Billy Jones at right back and Liam Ridgewell at left back. In an age whereby full-backs are adding alot more to the offensive side of the game, Jones & Ridgewell are full-backs of the more conventional variety. Neither are blessed with great pace but both are well disciplined defensively. As such, what the back 6 may lack in individual quality, they make up for by being a tight unit and seem to be have been well drilled under Steve Clarke's tutelage.
Defensive support
Clarke has revealed that he worked hard with the players over the summer in a bid to tighten things up at the back going into the new campaign "In pre-season we just focused on getting back to basics. If you're solid and you don't give too many goals away then you always give yourself the opportunity to create in games. If you give yourself the opportunity, we have shown in recent matches that we can score goals." He added: "Am I pleased defensively? Absolutely! Defensively, as a team, we have been much better".
Below are a couple of examples of how West Brom have managed to keep it tight against Man Utd & Arsenal. Unlike the Newcastle Preview whereby Ben Arfa & Remy provided no support, Steve Clarke would seem to insist that his wide players drop back in to provide cover in the full back areas in order to allow the rest of the defence to remain tight and compact .
The following examples show what kind of obstacle West Brom can present when they aren't countered and get time to get men behind the ball. This is an example from the Utd game of how Scott Sinclair's position allows the rest of the defence to remain tight and not become stretched.
Here is another example of the wide players coming deep. With Arsenal being a team that generally plays a narrower game than most, West Brom's 2 banks of 4 are able to squeeze in field.
In the screen shot below, similar to those above, West Brom have enough men back to ensure that Olsson & McAuley are not pulled from the center of the box.
Dominating midfield
One notable observation from West Brom's defensive positioning is that they start deep . That is their regular gameplan. With Mulumbu & Yacob ahead and the wide players putting in a shift of work, Clarke seems to have taken the approach that if there is going to be space on the pitch when the opposition have the ball then its better for the space to be ahead of the defence rather than between/behind it. Against Utd & Arsenal, Carrick saw plenty of the ball and attempted a staggering 103 passes with a 91% pass completion rate. Similarly, Arsenal's two deep midfielders (Flamini & Arteta) were able to get on the ball and attempted 134 passes between them with a 97% pass completion rate each. None of this matters much to WBA, their defenders are not the quickest and as seen above, the midfield seems more intent on providing support when play enters the final 3rd to allow the back line to keep their shape and remain compact (as opposed to contesting possession much higher up the pitch like Southampton do). As such, Liverpool's midfield could see alot of the ball in non-threatening areas. The following graphic perhaps gives some credence to this observation with WBA being the team that rank 2nd last in terms of tackles per game this season - which may indicate 2 things;
Here is a graphic which seems to suggest that teams find it hard to create many good opportunities against WBA. In the 1st graphic, they are the team that have conceded the fewest shots within the 6 yard box - perhaps due to the doggedness of McAuley & Olsson not being caught out of position too much. Ideally teams will look to restrict the opposition to shooting from range and WBA have been 4th best team at this so far this season - perhaps due to the limited space/gaps in the box that opponents try their luck from range.
As only 5 graphics are permitted in 1 post, the rest of the preview is continued here;
The Inside Right
The rest will look at West Brom's attacking players, how we might find some space and how Saturday may turn out.
West Brom's greatest quality is their willingness to work for each other and play as a team. Whilst the differences are subtle, I see their set up more as a 4-4-1-1 rather than a 4-2-3-1 based on the mandate of the wide midfielders and the role of Sessegnon as the link man between midfield and attack.
Steve Clarke has settled on his defence and 2 holding midfielders this season with the rotation happening at the other end of the pitch. The quartet of McAuley & Olsson in central defence and Mulumbu & Yacob holding the midfield ahead of them is one of the more robust & uncompromising in the league. They are complimented by Billy Jones at right back and Liam Ridgewell at left back. In an age whereby full-backs are adding alot more to the offensive side of the game, Jones & Ridgewell are full-backs of the more conventional variety. Neither are blessed with great pace but both are well disciplined defensively. As such, what the back 6 may lack in individual quality, they make up for by being a tight unit and seem to be have been well drilled under Steve Clarke's tutelage.
Defensive support
Clarke has revealed that he worked hard with the players over the summer in a bid to tighten things up at the back going into the new campaign "In pre-season we just focused on getting back to basics. If you're solid and you don't give too many goals away then you always give yourself the opportunity to create in games. If you give yourself the opportunity, we have shown in recent matches that we can score goals." He added: "Am I pleased defensively? Absolutely! Defensively, as a team, we have been much better".
Below are a couple of examples of how West Brom have managed to keep it tight against Man Utd & Arsenal. Unlike the Newcastle Preview whereby Ben Arfa & Remy provided no support, Steve Clarke would seem to insist that his wide players drop back in to provide cover in the full back areas in order to allow the rest of the defence to remain tight and compact .
The following examples show what kind of obstacle West Brom can present when they aren't countered and get time to get men behind the ball. This is an example from the Utd game of how Scott Sinclair's position allows the rest of the defence to remain tight and not become stretched.
Here is another example of the wide players coming deep. With Arsenal being a team that generally plays a narrower game than most, West Brom's 2 banks of 4 are able to squeeze in field.
In the screen shot below, similar to those above, West Brom have enough men back to ensure that Olsson & McAuley are not pulled from the center of the box.
Dominating midfield
One notable observation from West Brom's defensive positioning is that they start deep . That is their regular gameplan. With Mulumbu & Yacob ahead and the wide players putting in a shift of work, Clarke seems to have taken the approach that if there is going to be space on the pitch when the opposition have the ball then its better for the space to be ahead of the defence rather than between/behind it. Against Utd & Arsenal, Carrick saw plenty of the ball and attempted a staggering 103 passes with a 91% pass completion rate. Similarly, Arsenal's two deep midfielders (Flamini & Arteta) were able to get on the ball and attempted 134 passes between them with a 97% pass completion rate each. None of this matters much to WBA, their defenders are not the quickest and as seen above, the midfield seems more intent on providing support when play enters the final 3rd to allow the back line to keep their shape and remain compact (as opposed to contesting possession much higher up the pitch like Southampton do). As such, Liverpool's midfield could see alot of the ball in non-threatening areas. The following graphic perhaps gives some credence to this observation with WBA being the team that rank 2nd last in terms of tackles per game this season - which may indicate 2 things;
- that the team don't contest the midfield area as much as other teams, and
- when the opposition are retaining possession the focus is on getting into position and creating a tough unit to penetrate rather than defending on the front foot and proactively trying to win the ball back.
Here is a graphic which seems to suggest that teams find it hard to create many good opportunities against WBA. In the 1st graphic, they are the team that have conceded the fewest shots within the 6 yard box - perhaps due to the doggedness of McAuley & Olsson not being caught out of position too much. Ideally teams will look to restrict the opposition to shooting from range and WBA have been 4th best team at this so far this season - perhaps due to the limited space/gaps in the box that opponents try their luck from range.
As only 5 graphics are permitted in 1 post, the rest of the preview is continued here;
The Inside Right
The rest will look at West Brom's attacking players, how we might find some space and how Saturday may turn out.
Rory, you magnificent bastard.
Just look at the lovely pictures, they're just ..... lovely. In fact, I put them in just for you 😉
For me, it was probably one of our best performances of the season, Newcastle had very little attacking threat, or presence in the midfield. They scored on a ridiculous shot by Cabaye from no man's land and a set piece from which we would have conceded regardless of formation.
We do need to switch Moses out from the hole, and get someone else at lwb, but I think the formation is okay.
I thought Cissokho provided a real threat at WB. Other than that, I agree.
... And if Enrique's injured, who else is going to play on the left?
We were shite.
Glenjo
Would like to see more of Sterling at RWB myself, I think he could do okay there if he gets more minutes. If we're going to be a 3ATB team long term, he's going to have to play there. He's shown that he has the ability to run the wing, and defend well enough, it's just a matter of if he can figure out his positioning.
For me, while he got to see plenty of the ball, he actually did very little with it. Definitely did enough running, and was an excellent outlet, but has to provide some sort of attacking threat, otherwise he's basically just a big black Downing who's inexplicably worse in the final third.
Newcastle completely dominated our midfield until they lost a man
I, on the other hand, have never once thought he could.
He'd be horrendous there. Being a deep lying midfielder is more about reading the game (something Agger's not very good at) than playing passes. It's what you do when you don't have the ball that makes you a top class DM.
!!!!!
I agree with Ryan (for a change)
I think Agger would be horrendous as a DM, Toure would be margainily better but still lacks the discipline for the role.
No, "what you do when you don't have the ball" fits the current perception of what our DM should be, ie it gives the Lucas argument a bit of leverage. As for Agger, I think he's overrated by some on here but if anything, his biggest strength as a defender IS his reading of the game, it's certainly not his raw defensive play, but more his ability to pick up loose balls, intercept and calm the play, which is another facet of a deep lying player, just a different kind to the one you're eluding to - which seems to be the no nonsense, "tackle and pass the ball to the nearest player" type. Which is great in itself but utterly redundant when it's only really making a minor difference to our defensive play and it's putting added onus on whoever plays alongside him to compensate for the inadequacies in the rest of Lucas' game.
It was just an observation anyway, more out of desperation from the fact that our midfield too is "horrendous", it's not something you can categorically say would be dead in the water, given two of the players mentioned have played there before anyway and we've persevered with this shite in the middle of the park for years and looked average at it for far too long.
You are criminally underrating aggers ability to read the play. He's just prone to being a bit thick and occasionally not paying attention.
Difference between him and lucas in that role would be lucas is actively aware of what's going on, he's just not good enough to do anything about it consistently
Difference between him and lucas in that role would be lucas is actively aware of what's going on, he's just not good enough to do anything about it consistently
Bloody hell.. I don't agree with the Agger - DM thing, but calling people 'a bit of a fucking idiot' for suggesting it is really really lame.
Some people just can't get their point across without being aggressive/offensive.
Some people just can't get their point across without being aggressive/offensive.
Will you never learn.
I agree you cunt
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