I'd love to have him back right about now
Liverpool v Sevilla Match Thread CHAMPIONS LEAGUE
- Thread starter FoxForceFive
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Fuck me, our midfield must be bad
The defence... i am starting to think Klopp has no clue now and does not want to deal with it.
Clearly if you can only identify one defender in the whole world that fits the bill then i can only think that he thinks that VVD can both be a defender and organise it...something Klopp cannot be bothered to do it seems.
Was this the case with Klopp at Dortmund ? Was that defence a fucking shambles like ours ?
Clearly if you can only identify one defender in the whole world that fits the bill then i can only think that he thinks that VVD can both be a defender and organise it...something Klopp cannot be bothered to do it seems.
Was this the case with Klopp at Dortmund ? Was that defence a fucking shambles like ours ?
Since Sevilla scored with both their shots on target and Arsenal did not manage a shot on target, Karius has not made a save in the two games he has played. Not his fault, just very unusual.
This is how we roll.
Pretty sure Sevilla had 5 shots max on goal - 2 on target, 2 goals.
Defence is an absolute joke at the moment - has not improved one bit since Rodgers departure, in fact it looks worse now.
How is Moreno suddenly first choice left back ahead of Milner and Robertson (who we signed to be our starting left back) ???
I feel like we are going to waste this Champions League campaign as we did last time under Rodgers.
Under Rafa we had a SPINE - Reina, Carragher, Hyypia, Alonso Mascherano, Gerrard, Torres - that is why we did so well in the UCL back then, now we have no balls in this team.
Defence is an absolute joke at the moment - has not improved one bit since Rodgers departure, in fact it looks worse now.
How is Moreno suddenly first choice left back ahead of Milner and Robertson (who we signed to be our starting left back) ???
I feel like we are going to waste this Champions League campaign as we did last time under Rodgers.
Under Rafa we had a SPINE - Reina, Carragher, Hyypia, Alonso Mascherano, Gerrard, Torres - that is why we did so well in the UCL back then, now we have no balls in this team.
Havent read the match thread, so not sure what opinions have already been shared with him ... but I thought Karius did a decent job. Took some catches, dominated the box, and his early releases were accurate & effective. Shame about the lines in front of him
Yeah on the whole I liked him tonight. Had no chance with the goals sadly.
If they only had two shots on target our spine can't be that bad
The first goal was just a complete fluff and unfortunate, I would feel sorry for Lovren but he has been unlucky too often though for it to be ignored.
The irony of wanting to sign another quality defender from Soton possibly for a world record fee this time... Lovren was also good at Soton wasn't he...
The second goal was lack of cover from midfield not closing down the space after the throw in, they got very lucky again with the first touch but none-theless that should have been closed down properly and it wasn't. Disturbing that it should be straight down the middle we conceded again.
I do not know the solution, perhaps Klopp should stop changing the back 4 every single game or assign one of the midfield 3 more of a holding role altogether, but I am not an expert in the defensive tactics.
A disappointing result even if far from fatal and doom worthy but Sevilla are hardly mugs and they had all the good luck last night, 2:2.
Let's go and beat the cunts on their turf.
They were lucky last night but then again that second goal was a lovely finish... the fucker....
I'm not sure there's much to add about the performance that hasn't been covered in the match threads and post-match autopsies, but to sum up: our defence is fucking shite and Klopp was negligent over summer by not addressing the obvious issues in the team.
Karius (6) Our keeper in Europe can't really take much blame for the goals, and while he seemed a bit hesitant at times, his kicking was much better than the Arsenal game, and he moved the ball out quickly.
Gomez (4) Turned a few times and was part of the collective brain-fuck for the opening goal. What good work he did in attack was largely spoiled by a nervous defensive display and he was duly sent off for getting wrong side of his man again.
Matip (5) Easy on the eye in possession, with a languid unhurried style that at times was reminiscent of Agger or a cut-price Alan Hansen. But he isn't a reliable defender and he gives attackers too much space by not being physical enough in challenges. Sevilla's second goal was an offence to the art of central defending, and while he isn't helped by playing with Lovren, it's clear that Matip needs to improve
Lovren (3) He isn't good enough. Most of us knew that years ago, so it's rather strange to see the bungling cunt still a first-choice CB, and a nice fat, lucrative contract in his pocket, courtesy of Klopp. He made several good challenges and tackles, but his problem has always been the sheer quantity of cretinous mistakes he makes. Ruinously erratic.
Moreno (7) Good performance, especially - and unsurprisingly - going forward, with his speed and use of the ball a danger all evening. Made the first goal, nearly scored and the usual rash, stupid challenge.
Henderson (4) Splendid pass to get Moreno free for our opening goal, but his brain can't seem to ever calm down; he was rushed in his decision-making and his passing was horribly awry at times. We needed a cool head, but Henderson's attempts to dominate and control the midfield consisted entirely on chasing the ball around in one of his retarded labrador impressions. Frenetic and mediocre at times, simply awful at others.
Can (5) Average. And that's being kind. He was incredibly sloppy in his overall play, and while he did have one or two good chances, he couldn't execute properly, and was also culpable for the goal, with a lackadaisical attempt to win the ball. There was no snap or bite to his play.
Wijnaldum (7) The Invisible Man didn't show up, instead we got the competent, gifted midfielder. Shooting wasn't quite up to it, with several scuffed, or inaccurate efforts, but overall looked a class above the rest of his midfield partners. If he played like this every week he'd be undroppable, but the sad fact is, we seem to get either this, or just fuck all entirely, and that lack of consistent quality is why he can't be trusted.
Mane (7) Our best player had a super first half, in which he was scary to watch and won a penalty, but that level fell away in the second half, along with nmost of his team-mates
Salah (7) Love his tenacity, which was richly rewarded with his lucky deflected effort, and his blistering pace and workrate is a delight. Doesn't always look clinical and sometimes wastes opportunities, but he gets so MANY opportunities.
Firmino (7) Shame about the poor penalty, and his energy dipped later on, but he linked the play well, and also spent a pleasing amount of time in the box, which was duly rewarded with a simple finish for the first goal.
Karius (6) Our keeper in Europe can't really take much blame for the goals, and while he seemed a bit hesitant at times, his kicking was much better than the Arsenal game, and he moved the ball out quickly.
Gomez (4) Turned a few times and was part of the collective brain-fuck for the opening goal. What good work he did in attack was largely spoiled by a nervous defensive display and he was duly sent off for getting wrong side of his man again.
Matip (5) Easy on the eye in possession, with a languid unhurried style that at times was reminiscent of Agger or a cut-price Alan Hansen. But he isn't a reliable defender and he gives attackers too much space by not being physical enough in challenges. Sevilla's second goal was an offence to the art of central defending, and while he isn't helped by playing with Lovren, it's clear that Matip needs to improve
Lovren (3) He isn't good enough. Most of us knew that years ago, so it's rather strange to see the bungling cunt still a first-choice CB, and a nice fat, lucrative contract in his pocket, courtesy of Klopp. He made several good challenges and tackles, but his problem has always been the sheer quantity of cretinous mistakes he makes. Ruinously erratic.
Moreno (7) Good performance, especially - and unsurprisingly - going forward, with his speed and use of the ball a danger all evening. Made the first goal, nearly scored and the usual rash, stupid challenge.
Henderson (4) Splendid pass to get Moreno free for our opening goal, but his brain can't seem to ever calm down; he was rushed in his decision-making and his passing was horribly awry at times. We needed a cool head, but Henderson's attempts to dominate and control the midfield consisted entirely on chasing the ball around in one of his retarded labrador impressions. Frenetic and mediocre at times, simply awful at others.
Can (5) Average. And that's being kind. He was incredibly sloppy in his overall play, and while he did have one or two good chances, he couldn't execute properly, and was also culpable for the goal, with a lackadaisical attempt to win the ball. There was no snap or bite to his play.
Wijnaldum (7) The Invisible Man didn't show up, instead we got the competent, gifted midfielder. Shooting wasn't quite up to it, with several scuffed, or inaccurate efforts, but overall looked a class above the rest of his midfield partners. If he played like this every week he'd be undroppable, but the sad fact is, we seem to get either this, or just fuck all entirely, and that lack of consistent quality is why he can't be trusted.
Mane (7) Our best player had a super first half, in which he was scary to watch and won a penalty, but that level fell away in the second half, along with nmost of his team-mates
Salah (7) Love his tenacity, which was richly rewarded with his lucky deflected effort, and his blistering pace and workrate is a delight. Doesn't always look clinical and sometimes wastes opportunities, but he gets so MANY opportunities.
Firmino (7) Shame about the poor penalty, and his energy dipped later on, but he linked the play well, and also spent a pleasing amount of time in the box, which was duly rewarded with a simple finish for the first goal.
I didn't watch all the game - but here are my thoughts/concerns:
- Lovren is clearly not good enough in the current set up. We can blame Moreno, or no DM (or system like Soton's), but he's just not good enough consistently to play for a team with top 4 aspirations.
- I still don't really get why Moreno is playing - he isn't a good enough defender.
- Matip - I like him but he needs to play next to a top defender to get the best out of him. He's not a leader, and he's dreamy at times.
- Hendo - Worries me. I think he's not back yet physically (will he ever be?) and that is causing his average (at best) passing.
- Klopp
- Where is Andrew?
- Where is James? Is he really not capable of being a better LB than Moreno? Or spell one of our CMs? We're going to have a serious problem come December if we keep on going with these 3.
- I'm worried - no, I still think he's the best manager and getting rid of him would be insanity. But he's gotta realize the team needs an overhaul defensively. A few defenders and a DEFENSIVE minded midfielder (Keita isn't, although he's really good). We cannot win most games by outscoring our opposition ...
- Next summer, let's ensure we have 2-3 targets per position we want to strengthen. Please.
Salah has been another gust of fresh air to our attack. And here was I thinking that he was merely fast over the first few yards, quick feet and all, but he's got totally blistering pace to burn no matter the distance.
What a bargain he seems to be in the current market.. you'd simply have to recognize and applaud the amount of attacking talent we've brought in of late in Mane, Firmino and Salah.
That's like a trio of pure win.
What a bargain he seems to be in the current market.. you'd simply have to recognize and applaud the amount of attacking talent we've brought in of late in Mane, Firmino and Salah.
That's like a trio of pure win.
PS Maybe it's just me but last nights game gave me more positive vibes than negative ones. Yeah it ended kinda badly but before that we were totally devastating, tearing a rather solid Sevilla team apart, attacking them left, right and centre. I loved it. Breathtaking stuff at times.
It bodes so well for the future, much more so than a scrappy, defensive 1-nil at this stage, at least that's how I see it.
I think we all crave for a team that apart from the results actually also delivers the entertainment and first and foremost a positive approach. Even with its obvious flaws I am really starting to like this current crop of players. As said elsewhere we are not that far of a squad of massive potential.
It bodes so well for the future, much more so than a scrappy, defensive 1-nil at this stage, at least that's how I see it.
I think we all crave for a team that apart from the results actually also delivers the entertainment and first and foremost a positive approach. Even with its obvious flaws I am really starting to like this current crop of players. As said elsewhere we are not that far of a squad of massive potential.
Yup ... Great pick up.
It was a disappointment but why do we seem to be playing idiots who can't even do the basics?
Karius- Came, caught and distributed well enough. Can't be faulted for the goals.
Gomez - a kid playing out of position and it showed. Beaten too easy and I can't argue with the red.
Matip - Built like Sami, goes forward like agger and defends like a wet paper bag.
Lovren - what a clusterfuck of a signing. His saving grace is he's better than Klavan. Just.
Moreno a brain dead muppet but one of his better games. Didn't allow navas to use his pace and got forward. A load of poor passes but the best out of our defenders.
Henderson- did well for firmino's goal. Looked better going forward than on the back foot.
Can - shitbag. Was the main problem with the opener. He was is two minds on what to do and when he did decide went in half hearted. Unforgivable anywhere on the pitch but more so 20 yards out in front of the Kop is criminal. You could tell after 25 minutes he'd have a stinker. Not arsed if he goes. He has no consistency
Wijnaldum- best midfielder especially carrying the ball forward. Looked leggy in the last 20.
Salah - fuck he's quick and I like that his first thought is to get towards the goal.
Manè - fuck he's quick. Our best player. He tailed off as it went on.
Firmino - right place right time for the goal. Shite the rest of the game. I just don't see what everyone else is seeing. Penalty miss was terrible and would've killed the game off.
Coutinho - a few crap corners
Chamberlain - took a ball to the face and won a couple of corners
Sturridge - he's finished physically
Crowd - unbelievably nervous. Even at 1-0 down 15 minutes in I felt we were still the better team by a long way but everyone else was nervous as fuck. Maybe that's because of the team maybe the crowd make the team nervous. Either way both just need to calm down.
Ref - played advantage a few times when there wasn't any.
Spare ref - looked like Brienne of tarth. Gave us a corner at the end I thought was a goal kick.
Discount booze - only had carlsberg export, skol or fosters left. Export won.
Karius- Came, caught and distributed well enough. Can't be faulted for the goals.
Gomez - a kid playing out of position and it showed. Beaten too easy and I can't argue with the red.
Matip - Built like Sami, goes forward like agger and defends like a wet paper bag.
Lovren - what a clusterfuck of a signing. His saving grace is he's better than Klavan. Just.
Moreno a brain dead muppet but one of his better games. Didn't allow navas to use his pace and got forward. A load of poor passes but the best out of our defenders.
Henderson- did well for firmino's goal. Looked better going forward than on the back foot.
Can - shitbag. Was the main problem with the opener. He was is two minds on what to do and when he did decide went in half hearted. Unforgivable anywhere on the pitch but more so 20 yards out in front of the Kop is criminal. You could tell after 25 minutes he'd have a stinker. Not arsed if he goes. He has no consistency
Wijnaldum- best midfielder especially carrying the ball forward. Looked leggy in the last 20.
Salah - fuck he's quick and I like that his first thought is to get towards the goal.
Manè - fuck he's quick. Our best player. He tailed off as it went on.
Firmino - right place right time for the goal. Shite the rest of the game. I just don't see what everyone else is seeing. Penalty miss was terrible and would've killed the game off.
Coutinho - a few crap corners
Chamberlain - took a ball to the face and won a couple of corners
Sturridge - he's finished physically
Crowd - unbelievably nervous. Even at 1-0 down 15 minutes in I felt we were still the better team by a long way but everyone else was nervous as fuck. Maybe that's because of the team maybe the crowd make the team nervous. Either way both just need to calm down.
Ref - played advantage a few times when there wasn't any.
Spare ref - looked like Brienne of tarth. Gave us a corner at the end I thought was a goal kick.
Discount booze - only had carlsberg export, skol or fosters left. Export won.
Yeah I agree with these ratings.
Enjoyed: Our lethal attacking play. The Red Arrows zipping forward. Quite a sight. Moreno kicking that shit-cunt Navas up in the air. Their manager being a bizarre twat. Hearing us walk out to the CL theme music once again.
Did not enjoy: Our soft centre (again). Bobby's peno miss (score that I believe we win the game). Lovren.
Did not enjoy: Our soft centre (again). Bobby's peno miss (score that I believe we win the game). Lovren.
Must try harder. Integral to how we play going forward.
Finishing is something we HAVE to improve. Of course our defending needs to be rectified, but if we scored from even a couple more of the many chances we make, we could still win in spite of the current defensive cock-ups. It's almost as if, once we get a couple of goals, the players no longer think that it's still essential to take the chances they create. There's almost an exhibition match quality to the over-clever touches. Look at the stat from last night's game - we made 27 chances to Sevilla's seven, and yet they scored as many as we did. Too often our strikers and midfielders get into great positions to score only to be way too casual about their finishing. We have to be more clinical.
Would any player have a higher success rate for forward passes than sideways or backwards?Guess who?
That aside, he wasnt great on wednesday night but he wasnt alone, can was muck and wijnaldum struggled to maintain the intensity into the second half.
Do as you please.
You criticised me for posting his passing map after the City game and only picking his bad games, now I'm trying to be consistent and that is the game after, I'm gonna post another one after the Burnley game. We'll see if there's a pattern.
This is what's known in boxing as the punchers path. The idea that if you can just hit hard enough offensively then defence won't matter. Your opponent will just wilt in the face of an unstoppable onslaught. It doesn't work and it's usually indicative of a fighter who has gotten lazy and didn't want to do the dirty work any more preferring to just load up their punches. This is the trap Rodgers fell into. Defensively vulnerable teams always think 1 more goal is the solution.
Of course it's not a long term solution, but in the pre-January short term - unless someone expects the defence to suddenly improve - logic would surely suggest you'd better take your chances at the other end rather than be profligate. That ISN'T the puncher's path. Much of recent criticism has focused exclusively on the defence, but the attack is also open to criticism. We should have won certain games this season in spite of the howlers at the other end. The defence needs improving rapidly and radically, but there needs to be a better conversion rate at the other end.
I'd say you've just described Gennady Golovkin perfectly ha.
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