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Liverpool team compared to Man UTD

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Fox

Fox

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So the mancs will win another league title this year and are probably going to get to a CL final plus possibly another FA Cup one.

I thought their team was average on paper this year, but somehow fergie and the squad have done the business again.

How far away are we, is it mentality, management, 1st team or just as simple as squad inefficiencies

Let's compare 1st team when fit for starters.

Reina -------------- Van de Sar
Johnson ----------- Da Silva
Carra----------------Vidic
Agger----------------Ferdinand
Kelly-----------------Evra
Kuyt------------------Nani
Raul M---------------Giggs
Stevie ---------------Carrick
Lucas-----------------Fletcher
Caroll-----------------Rooney
Suarez----------------Berbatov

What obviously jumps out is how much better their left back and centre backs are but apart from that it is pretty even.

Does Kenny compare well to Fergie, yes I would say.

So its the squad, the replacements for key positions in our team compared to theirs reads.

Gilacsi------Kuszczak
Wilson------Da Silva II
Skrtel-------Smalling
Greek-------Evans
Sicknote----?????Gibson???
Poulson----Scholes
Spearing----Anderson
MAxi---------Valencia
Cole---------Park
N'gog--------Hernandez
Pacheo-------Owen

There it is folks, fuck me our squad is miles behind, that second team would come higher than us this year.

With everyone fit and some new boys out wide we have a chance to get back in this CL, win the league erm cannot see it.

thoughts?
 
From those two line ups, we are clearly missing;

* Pace

* Wingers

* Left back

* Centre back

* Squad depth

In other words 5-6 players and a shitload of money.
 
I would say bar Gerrard, our entire midfield is inferior to Scum's.
Forward line, we'll just have to see, but Suarez is looking like a player on par with Rooney, and that's something we couldn't say about a second striker for many years.
Defense is fine. I love Kelly and Johnson's been great on the left. We need another CB but in terms of first choice pairing Agger and Carra are on par with their defenders.

We need a right sided midfielder, a left sided midfielder and at the very least another central midfielder (Adam will do me) but ideally a Mascher/Didi replacement too.

But it's obvious to me from watching games when Liverpool play shite that wide players are the absolute priority this summer. We'll have wasted away 35m if we don't bring in some quality out wide.
 
We need a more dominating presence like Vidic in our defence. Rio and Vidic is a much better pairing than Carra and Agger.
 
As has been argued ad infinitum, we have a first 11 that could give a game to any team in the league, or Europe even. Our problem is an absolute paucity of depth, as Henry has discovered to his dismay.
 
[quote author=juniormember link=topic=44855.msg1311716#msg1311716 date=1302184487]
I would say bar Gerrard, our entire midfield is inferior to Scum's.
[/quote]

Really?

Is Lucas any worse than Anderson or Fletcher?
 
I was actually thinking about this over the last few days. The example that struck me was Lucas - no, I don't want to discuss him again. However, having watched Carrick and Fletcher for them and noted how they - particularly Carrick - can go missing I think Lucas plays just as well as either of them.

I changed my mind after the game last night.

Giggs may be about the same age as Moses, Carrick is not a great midfielders toe nail etc. etc. But, when the opportunity presents itself their midfield makes the right decision more often than not. Rooney's goal was purely down to Giggs making exactly the right decision to attack the ball and execute the move and then follow it up with exactly the right position to cut it back to Rooney.

Given the same situation for us I think the majority of our midfield would have got it wrong from the start. Football wise our midfield is at least the equal if not better than theirs but, mentally, they are far superior. Dirty Harry used to say "man's got to know his limitations". That's exactly what the mancs do - they don't try anything special, different, spectacular, attention grabbing. They know their role and they each play their role without trying to go outside it.

Yes, the squad is certainly inferior but its between the ears, at decision time that we are coming up short when compared against united or even Arsenal and Chelsea for that matter. We'll have plenty of good games where the decisions are right or where we get more opportunities to make the right decision but, over a full season and especially at the big moments, it's between the ears that sees us trailing the rest. Ferguson doesn't feel the need to get rid of Carrick, Fletcher, Park etc cause they all know their role and they perform it exactly right. He's got an inferior midfield but it's a balanced team, a very efficient team and it gets the important decisions right more often than not.
 
We have a marginally better central midfield than theirs, I think. However, Giggs and Nani (plus Valencia) out wide is so far beyond what we have it's not even worthy of discussion.
 
I think the whole premise isn't worth discussing. it's blinding obvious where our frailties are
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44855.msg1311766#msg1311766 date=1302190176]

I was actually thinking about this over the last few days. The example that struck me was Lucas - no, I don't want to discuss him again. However, having watched Carrick and Fletcher for them and noted how they - particularly Carrick - can go missing I think Lucas plays just as well as either of them.

I changed my mind after the game last night.

Giggs may be about the same age as Moses, Carrick is not a great midfielders toe nail etc. etc. But, when the opportunity presents itself their midfield makes the right decision more often than not. Rooney's goal was purely down to Giggs making exactly the right decision to attack the ball and execute the move and then follow it up with exactly the right position to cut it back to Rooney.

Given the same situation for us I think the majority of our midfield would have got it wrong from the start. Football wise our midfield is at least the equal if not better than theirs but, mentally, they are far superior. Dirty Harry used to say "man's got to know his limitations". That's exactly what the mancs do - they don't try anything special, different, spectacular, attention grabbing. They know their role and they each play their role without trying to go outside it.

Yes, the squad is certainly inferior but its between the ears, at decision time that we are coming up short when compared against united or even Arsenal and Chelsea for that matter. We'll have plenty of good games where the decisions are right or where we get more opportunities to make the right decision but, over a full season and especially at the big moments, it's between the ears that sees us trailing the rest. Ferguson doesn't feel the need to get rid of Carrick, Fletcher, Park etc cause they all know their role and they perform it exactly right. He's got an inferior midfield but it's a balanced team, a very efficient team and it gets the important decisions right more often than not.
[/quote]

It does seem that Man Utd are also well organised as a company. They also had American owners, not well like by the Fans, but they continue to operate well - presumably because the business structure is sound.

It seems H&G, pretending to be well established business people, offered little in this regard. Although encouraging signs from FSG that this has been rectified. So hopefully, a well ran LFC will pay dividends to the football side.
 
Player for player comparisons are largely pointless.

Average players can be highly effective and useful if the manager has the nous to set up his team up perfectly and has instilled a winning mentality.

Fergie shines at this.
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44855.msg1311766#msg1311766 date=1302190176]

I was actually thinking about this over the last few days. The example that struck me was Lucas - no, I don't want to discuss him again. However, having watched Carrick and Fletcher for them and noted how they - particularly Carrick - can go missing I think Lucas plays just as well as either of them.

I changed my mind after the game last night.

Giggs may be about the same age as Moses, Carrick is not a great midfielders toe nail etc. etc. But, when the opportunity presents itself their midfield makes the right decision more often than not. Rooney's goal was purely down to Giggs making exactly the right decision to attack the ball and execute the move and then follow it up with exactly the right position to cut it back to Rooney.

Given the same situation for us I think the majority of our midfield would have got it wrong from the start. Football wise our midfield is at least the equal if not better than theirs but, mentally, they are far superior. Dirty Harry used to say "man's got to know his limitations". That's exactly what the mancs do - they don't try anything special, different, spectacular, attention grabbing. They know their role and they each play their role without trying to go outside it.

Yes, the squad is certainly inferior but its between the ears, at decision time that we are coming up short when compared against united or even Arsenal and Chelsea for that matter. We'll have plenty of good games where the decisions are right or where we get more opportunities to make the right decision but, over a full season and especially at the big moments, it's between the ears that sees us trailing the rest. Ferguson doesn't feel the need to get rid of Carrick, Fletcher, Park etc cause they all know their role and they perform it exactly right. He's got an inferior midfield but it's a balanced team, a very efficient team and it gets the important decisions right more often than not.
[/quote]

Nail/hammer interface.
 
Carrick gets a lot of stick but he has some sublime moments, that pass the other night to Giggs, the whole move was superb.
I'm sure if Taggart could steal any of our players he'd be interested in Reina, Gerrard & Suarez. I doubt he'd expend any energy on chasing the others.
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44855.msg1311766#msg1311766 date=1302190176]

Football wise our midfield is at least the equal if not better than theirs....

[/quote]

Nah.
 
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=44855.msg1311916#msg1311916 date=1302220945]

Carrick gets a lot of stick but he has some sublime moments, that pass the other night to Giggs, the whole move was superb.

[/quote]

As any United fan will attest, that's Carrick's first good game in 2 years though.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44855.msg1311932#msg1311932 date=1302231419]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=44855.msg1311916#msg1311916 date=1302220945]

Carrick gets a lot of stick but he has some sublime moments, that pass the other night to Giggs, the whole move was superb.

[/quote]

As any United fan will attest, that's Carrick's first good game in 2 years though.
[/quote]

I thought he was still fairly ordinary, though.


There was nothing wrong with that pass but it was made to look very good by Giggs.
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44855.msg1311937#msg1311937 date=1302239031]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44855.msg1311932#msg1311932 date=1302231419]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=44855.msg1311916#msg1311916 date=1302220945]

Carrick gets a lot of stick but he has some sublime moments, that pass the other night to Giggs, the whole move was superb.

[/quote]

As any United fan will attest, that's Carrick's first good game in 2 years though.
[/quote]

I thought he was still fairly ordinary, though.


There was nothing wrong with that pass but it was made to look very good by Giggs Bosingwa.
[/quote]
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44855.msg1311955#msg1311955 date=1302242961]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44855.msg1311937#msg1311937 date=1302239031]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44855.msg1311932#msg1311932 date=1302231419]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=44855.msg1311916#msg1311916 date=1302220945]

Carrick gets a lot of stick but he has some sublime moments, that pass the other night to Giggs, the whole move was superb.

[/quote]

As any United fan will attest, that's Carrick's first good game in 2 years though.
[/quote]

I thought he was still fairly ordinary, though.


There was nothing wrong with that pass but it was made to look very good by Giggs Bosingwa.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Exactly, Bosingwa is a very very ordinary defender. No surprises there, Giggs passes through and he looked like a statue.
 
its not really about individual comparisons for me because thats not the way the game is played, there are too many variables. While we clearly have a couple of players that would get a game for them its more the fact that they have a balanced team that puts them miles in front of us.

I mean midfield is their weakest area but the first choice midfield for us contains 3 central midfielders and one striker, not one genuine wide player in the first team squad, and no defensive midfield option. On the other hand Utd have a number of options for the wide and central midfield roles all of whom are comfortable playing in those positions. I dont care if Scholes and Giggs did play in the same youth team as Bobby Charlton the point is that they know their positions and whats required of them, we shunt a player like Jovanavic out wide and just see what happens

They also benefit from having a hugely superior squad to us and the consistently attacking philosophy that the manager has drilled into them

And much as it pains me to say it we have a tendency to vastly over rate our own players, I honestly dont think anybody could claim Agger/Carragher partnership is the equal of Vidic/Ferdinand without demonstrating serious bias, and it will take some time before Suarez can be elevated to the level of Rooney. Berbatov is the leagues top scorer and he isnt a guaranteed starter for them because they have a shit hot young poacher making a huge name for himself while our main striker has yet to score for us and his only competition is David N'gog

We are at least 4 top class players away from getting near them over the course of 38 games
 
[quote author=juniormember link=topic=44855.msg1311716#msg1311716 date=1302184487]
I would say bar Gerrard, our entire midfield is inferior to Scum's.
Forward line, we'll just have to see, but Suarez is looking like a player on par with Rooney, and that's something we couldn't say about a second striker for many years.
Defense is fine. I love Kelly and Johnson's been great on the left. We need another CB but in terms of first choice pairing Agger and Carra are on par with their defenders.

We need a right sided midfielder, a left sided midfielder and at the very least another central midfielder (Adam will do me) but ideally a Mascher/Didi replacement too.

But it's obvious to me from watching games when Liverpool play shite that wide players are the absolute priority this summer. We'll have wasted away 35m if we don't bring in some quality out wide.

[/quote]

Not in this life.
 
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