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Liverpool FC in profit - but debt almost doubles

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the count

SCM's least favourite muppet- There was a poll
Honorary Member
Hopefully there is someone with a bit of financial nous to explain whether this is all good or bad news


LIVERPOOL Football Club’s debts have almost doubled to £86m according to its latest financial results, despite returning to profit following losses the previous year.

The club’s annual accounts will reveal a pre-tax profit of £10.2m for the year to July 31, 2008, an improvement on the previous year’s loss of £21.7m.

However, the accounts will also show that net debt soared from £44m to £86m during the same period, despite an increase in revenue across the board.

The results are due to be posted with Companies House by today in keeping with UK company law and though both revenue and profits show clear growth the increasing level of debt will be a concern to Liverpool’s fans.

Turnover has shot up from £133.9m in the previous year to £159.1m mainly as a result of the lucrative TV deal which the Premier League secured with leading broadcasters Sky and the BBC.

But with matchday and commercial income both also having gone up it is clear that Liverpool’s revenue streams are on an upward curve.

The club’s net spending on players went up from £22m to £28m due to the recruitment of Javier Mascherano, Diego Cavalieri, Andrea Dossena, David Ngog and Robbie Keane.

The net spend does not reflect the full transfer fees agreed with other clubs in transfer deals, it merely shows the initial outlay and downpayments made to secure the transfers.

The sales of Peter Crouch, John Arne Riise and Momo Sissoko brought in £24m and the net value of Liverpool’s squad soared from £100m in the previous year to £130m.

Interestingly, the report also reveals that owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett injected £58m into the club.

The ECHO understands that £12m of this was used towards player acquisitions while the bulk of it was provided according to the refinancing agreement secured with the Royal Bank of Scotland in February 2007.

Hicks and Gillett are due to refinance again next month but sources indicate they are likely to be given a six-month extension to their current loan arrangement.

Meanwhile, Liverpool have stepped up their search for a replacement for outgoing chief executive Rick Parry.

Recruitment specialists Odgers Berndtson have been appointed to head hunt Parry’s successor and they have now placed an advertisement on their official website as they look for the right person to fill the role.

According to the advert, a "significant package" is available to the successful candidate as Hicks and Gillett look for someone who can "give outstanding leadership and clear direction to the club through its next phase of development, ensuring it performs exceptionally both on and off the field".
 
The way profit and loss works, by my understanding is a company is made of of various divisions, for example, liverpool will be made up of the commercial side (tv adverts, tv rights) then there will be the ground and money generated through gate reciepts, food, anything sold in the club shop, then there ar the players and the money spent on new recruits and money made from the sale of players.

Now when a company releases gross and net profits, the company will look at every division wthin the club, There will be divisions that make profit, and others that will makes losses. The areas that make profit will then be released, seperatly to any losses and debt.

The debt is a worry, however the owners will look at offsetting any debt against net profits so that large debt, wont be the final debt for the year. It is a very complicated but I imagine thats what will happen, I may be wrong but hey.
 
Tax paid which could have been deferred the previous year, Interest paid on the loans.

Thats my guess. I wouldn't worry too much about it, as long as we have cash.
 
You may be wrong?

Judging from your performance in the Drossena thread on this page, you're a fucking certainty to be wrong
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=33862.msg878803#msg878803 date=1243685756]
You may be wrong?

Judging from your performance in the Drossena thread on this page, you're a fucking certainty to be wrong
[/quote]

Well since I am now self employed and I do my own accounts as well as studying business at college, Im guessing Ive got a fucking lot better idea about it than you.

Also, I may of got it wrong with Dossena, but who really gives a fuck? He was fucking good in Seria A, fact, so he didnt adapt here, I dont read the fucking future.

I probably know a fuck load more about international footie then you, so why keep stirring it with me?
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=33862.msg878810#msg878810 date=1243686237]
Oooh, 'business college'!

You fucking clown
[/quote]

My fucking point is I know alot more about business than you, im not boasting about learning business but funnily you are taught alot about profits and loss.

What the fuck is your problem anyway? this is why I stopped fucking posting on here because internet mugs like you exist.
 
Quick question.
Not that I am particularly worried, but what makes you so sure you know a lot more about business than our Brendan?

regards
 
[quote author=redfromlondon link=topic=33862.msg878808#msg878808 date=1243686113]
studying business at college
[/quote]

the+office+ryan.jpg
 
[quote author=redfromlondon link=topic=33862.msg878737#msg878737 date=1243675641]
The way profit and loss works, by my understanding is a company is made of of various divisions, for example, liverpool will be made up of the commercial side (tv adverts, tv rights) then there will be the ground and money generated through gate reciepts, food, anything sold in the club shop, then there ar the players and the money spent on new recruits and money made from the sale of players.

Now when a company releases gross and net profits, the company will look at every division wthin the club, There will be divisions that make profit, and others that will makes losses. The areas that make profit will then be released, seperatly to any losses and debt.

The debt is a worry, however the owners will look at offsetting any debt against net profits so that large debt, wont be the final debt for the year. It is a very complicated but I imagine thats what will happen, I may be wrong but hey.


[/quote]

Hahahaha

Even my neighbour's 3 year old toddler would have known that too.

Next episode of Business for Dummies : Redfromlondon explains the meaning of 'debt'.
 
[quote author=Roger REDerer link=topic=33862.msg878974#msg878974 date=1243706737]
[quote author=redfromlondon link=topic=33862.msg878737#msg878737 date=1243675641]
The way profit and loss works, by my understanding is a company is made of of various divisions, for example, liverpool will be made up of the commercial side (tv adverts, tv rights) then there will be the ground and money generated through gate reciepts, food, anything sold in the club shop, then there ar the players and the money spent on new recruits and money made from the sale of players.

Now when a company releases gross and net profits, the company will look at every division wthin the club, There will be divisions that make profit, and others that will makes losses. The areas that make profit will then be released, seperatly to any losses and debt.

The debt is a worry, however the owners will look at offsetting any debt against net profits so that large debt, wont be the final debt for the year. It is a very complicated but I imagine thats what will happen, I may be wrong but hey.


[/quote]

Hahahaha

Even my neighbour's 3 year old toddler would have known that too.

Next episode of Business for Dummies : Redfromlondon explains the meaning of 'debt'.
[/quote]

Why don't you give us the benefit of your wisdom and explain it all in layman's terms to us mere mortals?

Given that your neighbour's 3 year old toddler should be able to, I'm really looking forward to an insightful dissection of our teams financial wellbeing.
 
redfromlondon is wrong by the way, as basically what he's suggesting is banned by IAS. Paints a false picture to the shareholders and potential stakeholders.

I can't be arsed explaining it all, but I'd look at the expenses side first, see if YOY if they went up, and as stated before, look at the tax on the B/S and I/S see if the club have released a large chunk they almost certainly would have deferred last year. Furthermore, look at the finance costs, have the club paid back a percentage in interest.

But thats ok Redfromlondon, just don't reveal what company you own...
 
[quote author=Mr_V link=topic=33862.msg879520#msg879520 date=1243802714]
redfromlondon is wrong by the way, as basically what he's suggesting is banned by IAS. Paints a false picture to the shareholders and potential stakeholders.

I can't be arsed explaining it all, but I'd look at the expenses side first, see if YOY if they went up, and as stated before, look at the tax on the B/S and I/S see if the club have released a large chunk they almost certainly would have deferred last year. Furthermore, look at the finance costs, have the club paid back a percentage in interest.

But thats ok Redfromlondon, just don't reveal what company you own...
[/quote]

Im not actually gonna bother posting on this website any more because everyone seems to think im a cunt.

The only reason im responding to this little article is because I am certainly not wrong nor does my company do anything underhand.

My company is three small recruitment firms, now this year we have done poorly, obv because of this shitty market. Now we are not on the stock market and have no plans to go public or else I would release all figures whether loss or gains to shareholders. I used to work for RBS finance sector and they worked on 'divisional' net gain and net loss. Rbs have many different sectors and most areas made loss last financial year, however the Natwest retail and Rbs retail finance areas made significant profit, so this is then released, in their report, as is their net losses, toxic debt and toxic subsidaries. There is no hiding anything and it is perfectly legitimate to break down every aspect (as myself and directors do for our company house accountancy) and then offset profit against any debt accrued throughout the year.

I dont understand how that is in any way shape or form wrong? And I would presume that kop holdings plc would do something very similar to RBS as this is the usual format to follow. As long as you are clear, precise and the board, sharholers, accountants and HM Revenue are made clear of the situ, there can be absoloutly no problems with any of it.
 
[quote author=redfromlondon link=topic=33862.msg879552#msg879552 date=1243812257]
[quote author=Mr_V link=topic=33862.msg879520#msg879520 date=1243802714]
redfromlondon is wrong by the way, as basically what he's suggesting is banned by IAS. Paints a false picture to the shareholders and potential stakeholders.

I can't be arsed explaining it all, but I'd look at the expenses side first, see if YOY if they went up, and as stated before, look at the tax on the B/S and I/S see if the club have released a large chunk they almost certainly would have deferred last year. Furthermore, look at the finance costs, have the club paid back a percentage in interest.

But thats ok Redfromlondon, just don't reveal what company you own...
[/quote]

Im not actually gonna bother posting on this website any more because everyone seems to think im a cunt.

The only reason im responding to this little article is because I am certainly not wrong nor does my company do anything underhand.

My company is three small recruitment firms, now this year we have done poorly, obv because of this shitty market. Now we are not on the stock market and have no plans to go public or else I would release all figures whether loss or gains to shareholders. I used to work for RBS finance sector and they worked on 'divisional' net gain and net loss. Rbs have many different sectors and most areas made loss last financial year, however the Natwest retail and Rbs retail finance areas made significant profit, so this is then released, in their report, as is their net losses, toxic debt and toxic subsidaries. There is no hiding anything and it is perfectly legitimate to break down every aspect (as myself and directors do for our company house accountancy) and then offset profit against any debt accrued throughout the year.

I dont understand how that is in any way shape or form wrong? And I would presume that kop holdings plc would do something very similar to RBS as this is the usual format to follow. As long as you are clear, precise and the board, sharholers, accountants and HM Revenue are made clear of the situ, there can be absoloutly no problems with any of it.


[/quote]

I don't think your a cunt mate, just thought you were wrong, what I thought you were suggesting was have two companies, and hide the debt on one specific company. You've clarified what you meant though.

You answered your own question to why Liverpool would not be allowed to do that, it's very similiar to Southampton. They are a single entity, and the results are in the public sector. Therefore they are subject to IAS rules, whereas your accounts will be subject to UK GAAP as they are not on the stock exchange.

I'm not saying the results for Liverpool would be 100% correct, in fact i'd be amazed if they were, as almost undoubtedly, they'd be hiding some debt, deferred some expenses until the following year to inflate the profit this year. However without looking at the accounts I can't really comment on them further.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=33862.msg878718#msg878718 date=1243673228]
I'll probably get the full accounts later and have a nose through them.
[/quote]

Fuck me you lead such an interesting life 😉
 
[quote author=cochyn link=topic=33862.msg879862#msg879862 date=1243858828]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=33862.msg878718#msg878718 date=1243673228]
I'll probably get the full accounts later and have a nose through them.
[/quote]

Fuck me you lead such an interesting life 😉
[/quote]

You don't know the half of it.

Incidentally they aren't available online yet.
 
This is the jargest most fucking boring thread in the history of SCM. Lets go the libary for a fucking riot la, read some books and drink tea from paper cups. Fucks sake football and accounts. Fuck off an shut up.
 
Yeah ?

Well enjoy work ya jarg bellend, bank holiday in Ireland. Now that the hangover's gone I'm going out to get a tan.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=33862.msg879890#msg879890 date=1243860648]
Yeah ?

Well enjoy work ya jarg bellend, bank holiday in Ireland. Now that the hangover's gone I'm going out to get a tan.


[/quote]

Just cos i'm in work doesn't mean i'm doing any.
 
[quote author=QUADRASPAZ link=topic=33862.msg879877#msg879877 date=1243859668]
This is the jargest most fucking boring thread in the history of SCM. Lets go the libary for a fucking riot la, read some books and drink tea from paper cups. Fucks sake football and accounts. Fuck off an shut up.
[/quote][quote author=Rosco link=topic=33862.msg879890#msg879890 date=1243860648]
Yeah ?

Well enjoy work ya jarg bellend, bank holiday in Ireland. Now that the hangover's gone I'm going out to get a tan.


[/quote][quote author=QUADRASPAZ link=topic=33862.msg879892#msg879892 date=1243860742]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=33862.msg879890#msg879890 date=1243860648]
Yeah ?

Well enjoy work ya jarg bellend, bank holiday in Ireland. Now that the hangover's gone I'm going out to get a tan.


[/quote]

Just cos i'm in work doesn't mean i'm doing any.
[/quote]


Is this a who's got the biggest cock argument or what
 
A bit more from the accounts just published by The Echo.
The time to sell might be sooner rather than later......

Liverpool FC owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett in £42.6m loss

Jun 4 2009



Liverpool’s owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett suffered a £42.6million loss mainly due to interest payments on the debts they took on to buy the club, accounts released tonight reveal.

The club’s accountants have also warned that remaining uncertainty over refinancing the £350million debt before the July 24 deadline "may cast significant doubt on the group’s and parent company’s ability to continue as a going concern".

Although Hicks and Gillett say they are confident of securing a refinancing deal, the figures reveal the financial success of the football club is being swallowed up by the cost of servicing the parent company’s loans.

The accounts for the year ending July 2008 showed Liverpool made a £10.2million profit but the parent company Kop Football (Holdings) Ltd made a substantial loss of £42.6million, mainly due to interest payments totalling £36.5million.

The clubs accountants KPMG LLP also expressed a warning in their notes in the filed accounts.

The accountants said: "The group has credit facilities amounting to £350million which expire on 24 July 2009.

"The directors have initiated negotiations to secure the replacement finance required by the group and these negotiations are ongoing.

"These conditions... indicate the existence of a material uncertainty which may cast significant doubt on the group’s and parent company’s ability to continue as a going concern."

The club’s turnover was a record £159.1million compared to £133.9million the year before, with a profit of £10.2million.

That was reflected by a similar turnover for Kop Football (Holdings) of £164million - most coming from the football club - but the overall loss of £42.6million.
 
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