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Let's talk about Coutinho

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Ryan

The Prophet
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So let’s cut to the chase here.

He’s been shite for the first two games of the season.

He fucked me off to high heaven’s with that first half performance the other night, and so far he seems to have escaped relatively criticism-free for the 2 games he’s played this year, which have frankly been well below par. This isn’t a guy we bought in July remember. He’s been here for a few years now, adaptation time is over.

An aside though… So rightly, the focus has been on the defending (or lack of it) for the goals conceded the other night, and Clyne’s tackle-free saunter the week before. I’ve been as analytical as anyone about dissecting the reason behind the goals, but it almost seems to be the go-to discussion point after every game these days. As if nothing else that happens on a football pitch is of equal significance. I’m blaming Carragher & Neville for this. Hear me out here; two great defenders, two fairly fucking solid pundits, and plenty of minutes n screen n arrows to highlight and embarrass shite defending. All fine, no issues. But that seems to be all we’re getting, and the narrative is now centred for those 8 minute-analyses and the ensuing week-long support/forum-led discussion on why Skrtel wasn’t closer to Lovren blah blah blah. Not that they're not important, but you've got to score goals in games of football too.

Imagine it wasn't Carragher & Neville on there. Let’s say the two biggest pundits on TV were, I dunno, Bergkamp and Zidane. Say Bergkamp and Zidane ran Monday Night Football, interactive chalkboards n all. What would they have said about the performances of David Silva and Coutinho the other night? What would they have picked out from that game? That would have made for fascinating discussion if you ask me. To be blunt, they’d have highlighted and exposed an incredible waste of great possession and opportunities on Coutinho’s part. They’d have demonstrated time and again how he had great ball in the 10 position, how space had been created for him by Allen, Henderson, and to a lesser extent Gerrard working their collective cunts off to get the ball back quickly. By Sterling and Sturridge dragging centre backs out and up, and by the full-backs bombing forward to occupy Zabaleta and Clichy. That’s what good midfield and systems do – you have half a dozen blokes cuntning themselves to be able to get the ball to your creative man, and to give him space. He’ll do it for you then. Vieira talked about this brilliantly in that 'Keane V Vieira' documentary a few months back. Pires gave them fuck all defensively, offered up zilch. But they knew if they worked their arses off that the favour would be returned going the other way. The yin to the collective yang.

If your workers fashion up the ball for you, and your forwards create space for you, and you're in the ‘hole’ with the ball, then your job (if you're a player like Coutinho) starts there and then. That’s what you are in the side for. That's why you're picked. That's why teams work their arseholes off on the training ground. To break the opposing team's system, and to allow you the freedom you crave. Ball at your feet, defensive midfielder hasn’t got there in time, Sterling and Sturridge making darting runs, facing goal, you have got to do something.

Silva does it. In fact Silva goes one better than that, cos he also takes on the responsibility of creating the space for himself too. Silva’s my hero by the way. I’d kill to have a player like him in our side, in fact I’d go so far as to say we’d win the league if we had him. But anyway, we don’t, we’ve got Coutinho. Who wasted countless opportunities the other night. Time and time again in that first half he was in the position Brodge and his team would want him to be in. Space, 30 yards from goal, central, ball at his feet, runners everywhere. And not once did he make something happen. He amazingly made the wrong decision everytime. And lost the ball.

I mentioned it in the post-macth thread, and it’s harsh, but it reminded me of Pennant in the ’07 CL final. Never has one player seen so much of the ball and been given such space in a European Cup final. Never has one player made less of it. That was our Phil the other night. You don’t get much space against Fernando, Yaya and Kompany – they’re pretty good at tightening the gaps and not getting turned. You get 4 or 5 openings against them and make fuck all from it, then that’s an issue. That's what happened. I'd have loved two attacking analysts to have run the slow-mo video over that. Here's why you didn't win, because yeah your defence fucked up, but on the flipside you managed to get in behind the Champions defending midfielders - and you did nothing with it.

Same goes for Southampton at home. Wanyama had him all tucked up in his pocket. That’s another issue – if you can’t find space and lose your man against a mid-table side, then what are you giving us? The way we play with a combo of Hendo/Lucas/Allen/Can/Gerrard in the supporting midfield roles, there’s even more reliance on the number 10 (in this case, Coutinho) to be the creative one, cos those 4 or 5 supportive types I’ve just mentioned aren’t getting it done on their own offensively. That puts a lot of the pressure on Coutinho yeah, but that's the fucking job. We're not flighting to be good again, we're fighting to win leagues. Silva gets it done, Messi, Scholes used to, that's the level were at. Almost isn't cutting it.

So, we can highlight Skrtel, and Moreno, and the gap between centre halves, and Glenjo’s remarkable dip in form, but for me Coutinho hasn’t done anything near his role in the opening 2 games. And in a team shy of Suarez’s brilliance, there’s even more reliance on guys like him to create something for us.

He's been here 2 years now. Time to get it done.
 
Well over the last two seasons, whenever he'd have a dip in form and became anonymous in a couple of games, he'd be dropped with Sterling coming in the middle.
I think it'll be the same again this season.
Really infuriating as he can be ridiculously brilliant at times and be complete shit on other occasions. Has to gain consistency.
 
Well over the last two seasons, whenever he'd have a dip in form and became anonymous in a couple of games, he'd be dropped with Sterling coming in the middle.
I think it'll be the same again this season.
Really infuriating as he can be ridiculously brilliant at times and be complete shit on other occasions. Has to gain consistency.


And maybe that's it. You just throw Sterling inside and give Markovic the wings. We didn't have that luxury last year of having a top quality replacement out wide for Sterling I guess.
 
Coulda just said - "Coutinho's playing a bit shit at the mo."

Thankfully we have Markovic, Lallana (nearing fitness) & Sterling that can fill in at No. 10.

I'd like to see Suso play there in the Worthless Cup as well - he couldn't be much worse.
 
And maybe that's it. You just throw Sterling inside and give Markovic the wings. We didn't have that luxury last year of having a top quality replacement out wide for Sterling I guess.

As I said in the Spurs thread, we wanted competition for places in the squad, and we've got it now. The logical thing to do then is to make good on the threats of competition. That above is just what I'd like us to do against Spurs.
 
The consistency is just lacking. I want to say he was really poor to start last season as well, but I might be wrong.

On the flip side though, he only just turned 22. It's just a question of if he'll ever put it all together or not, but he definitely has time on his side.

He shouldn't be guaranteed to start as long as we have options though. But I think he could do very well against Spurs, he's the type of player that can give them fits.
 
I'm sure I mentioned this elsewhere but Coutinho seems to be missing his trademark slalom runs. One of the strengths of his game was his ability to trick/glide his way past 2-3 defenders causing panic and opening up space for our attackers, I've not seen that for a while. So is that a Coutinho failing or a Rodgers tactical manoeuvre to keep him central. Because he will lose the ball from time to time when trying those runs.

For Spurs I've already put up the team I'd like to see :

Hendo .............. Sterling ................ Lallana

.............. Studge ................ Mario

If Lallana isn't fit then Markovic can start, maybe when Marko's fitness starts failing him then bring Coutinho into central and Sterling goes wide.
 
I've been exasperated by him for quite a while. It doesn't help him, let alone the team as a whole, that even after his most muddle-headed performances he still gets called 'the little magician' and the reports suggest he bossed the game. This season, once he gets close to the edge of the area, his range of options seems to shrink to one - poking the ball through a mass of players in the middle of the pitch. Elsewhere, he's not looking up enough, he's misplacing passes and he's still snatching at his long range shots. It wouldn't frustrate so much if he was a mediocre player, but he's not, he's a player of such brilliance, at his best, that this failure to progress is really maddening.
 
Despite all of his warm words about Coutinho being 'the brains of the team' I've never been entirely convinced he's a Rodgers-type player. He's too inconsistent and is therefore too much of a luxury. We can't afford to carry him for three games like the other night in return for one where he looks out of this world. I suspect more often than not we will have somebody in that '10' role this season and I expect Coutinho will become the third choice behind Lallana and Sterling. Lallana was put on the planet to play for Rodgers while Sterling has already shown he can play centrally and Markovic's arrival enables him to take that role more readily. Based on his brief and very impressive cameo the other night I'm not sure Markovic himself could play there but he certainly enables Sterling to do so.

So while I'm a big fan of Coutinho I do think we now have more consistent options and he risks becoming the odd man out in the new look squad.
 
You nicely put into words what a lot of us have been thinking. We need to replace Balotelli with Coutinho, and go 4-4-2 diamond for the next game, once Lallana is back, Coutinho will really have to fight for his position, and I think that'll benefit him.
 
Form is temporary lads. He's still young, he's still learning. I doubt Silva was reatedly knocking out performance after performance at the same age. It's a difficult role, he just needs to learn to harness his abilities when opening aren't there. People look at him and if he's not prodding passes and setting up chance after chance then he's under performing. No doubt he is below par, but like I said.
 
Ive never been Coutinhos greatest fan.
I prefer a player who gives you consistent 7's rather than one week 5 the next 9.

It was the reason Garcia used to wind me the fuck up. If they are having an off day you get literally nothing. Coutinho for all his talent rarely delivers on the pitch. Is that fair? Rarely? In the 2 years he has been here how many match winning performances has he produced? The odd moment of genius aside there is very little.
In fact his first 6 months was his best 6 months.

I hope he turns it round, but when im doing my starting line ups Hes almost always left out.
 
Yep he's totally out of form which worries me because world class talents are mostly consistent.
The one saving grace I suppose is that he's trying his heart out.
Tracking back,making tackles and not scared of playing the game winning through balls.
If Johnson was putting in half the effort that Phillipe is I think people wouldn't be as harsh on him.
 
It seems ridiculous two games into the season but he looks like he needs a Schmeichel-style vacation. He had a draining season and a harrowing World Cup and emotionally he still looks like he's at the end of a campaign instead of being full of hope and hunger at the start of one.
 
I think Coutinho's trying too hard, always trying to play the killer pass rather than a more simple pass to a red shirt.

He's a team player, works hard, always wants the ball and will bust a gut to get into the penalty area to be another goal threat. Kuyt got praised for doing just those things and I've seen far too many Liverpool players recently who don't. We just expect so much more from Countinho.
 
Ive never been Coutinhos greatest fan.
I prefer a player who gives you consistent 7's rather than one week 5 the next 9.

It was the reason Garcia used to wind me the fuck up. If they are having an off day you get literally nothing. Coutinho for all his talent rarely delivers on the pitch. Is that fair? Rarely? In the 2 years he has been here how many match winning performances has he produced? The odd moment of genius aside there is very little.
In fact his first 6 months was his best 6 months.

I hope he turns it round, but when im doing my starting line ups Hes almost always left out.

I'm with you on this. As brilliant as he can be, his good performances are too few and far between for him to be consistently relied upon. When he's poo, he's poo. Hope it's just an age thing and that he becomes more consistent as he matures.
 
Form is temporary lads. He's still young, he's still learning. I doubt Silva was reatedly knocking out performance after performance at the same age. It's a difficult role, he just needs to learn to harness his abilities when opening aren't there. People look at him and if he's not prodding passes and setting up chance after chance then he's under performing. No doubt he is below par, but like I said.

I dont really see the point in comparing him to David Silva in this thread. There is about 7 years difference and Coutinho is a young player that will have his ups and downs.
He obviously needs to work on his consitency but that will come imho.
 
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