Joe Allen
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That's Colback.
Poor Allen. Had it not been for Ryan's Modo-esque gloat, I think he'd actually have gotten more compliments for his performance against Palace, or at the very least, folks would've left him alone.
Instead he's now caught flak through no fault of his. 😉
Instead he's now caught flak through no fault of his. 😉
I know. Merely another ill fitting description for a player that does nothing for them
Its hard to imagine how he can sleep under such circumstances
It is Ryan, we feel terrible about all those times we laid into him when he was mediocre. You win, he was brilliant against Crystal Palace.
It's crazy trying to judge Joe Allen's value against players who have proved to be absolute bargains like Can, Coutinho, Sturridge etc; you can just as easily say that Joe Allen's form has been okay for LFC and he cost £21m less than Carroll, £7m less than Aquilani and £5m less than Downing.
Joe Allen was worth about the £14m we paid for him based on his form for Swansea and his potential. I thought he'd have done better for us than he has but he's still become a decent squad player who has had plenty of decent performances.
Allen's not been helped by the changing nature of the central midfield - I get the sense he was bought to help replicate the Swansea set up of a holding midfielder, playmaker and attacking midfielder - in their set up Britton, Allen and Sigurdsson and in ours, presumably Lucas, Allen and Gerrard. Except then Lucas gets injured, and Allen has to cover, then Allen starts having problems with injuries, Henderson starts to become more important to our pressing; we start changing the midfield up to a diamond midfield, then, this season, a midfield two with two attacking midfielders ahead. Allen's been unlucky with injuries but every time he comes back the midfield has slightly changed again and he's not able to establish himself as part of it.
Allen is clearly a very good footballer. I view him as a bit of a luxury player as when the attackers aren't scoring he isn't going to be pitching in at all with goals or assists and when the team is conceding too many he isn't going to help shore up the midfield. In a team playing well I think he would bring even more fluidity and incision in attack but when looking to grind out results he has been bypassed through too many hollywood balls being played past his 'zone'.
It also doesn't help that he is often deployed as a DM when he does get a chance which isn't his role at all. If he were played in a CM partnership with Hendo that had Lucas as DM I think we'd see him show his worth but coming in for fleeting appearances will always be difficult for him. He's not the kind of midfielder who would come on for 15 minutes, make some marauding runs and maybe grab a goal so when he makes sub appearances he might look 'anonymous' but thats only in comparison to a match winning powerful CM that people might be expecting to see deployed from the bench.
Whilst I think there is a place for him in the squad, I see why he isn't always starting given the expected output from the likes of Henderson, Lallana, Coutinho is higher.
It also doesn't help that he is often deployed as a DM when he does get a chance which isn't his role at all. If he were played in a CM partnership with Hendo that had Lucas as DM I think we'd see him show his worth but coming in for fleeting appearances will always be difficult for him. He's not the kind of midfielder who would come on for 15 minutes, make some marauding runs and maybe grab a goal so when he makes sub appearances he might look 'anonymous' but thats only in comparison to a match winning powerful CM that people might be expecting to see deployed from the bench.
Whilst I think there is a place for him in the squad, I see why he isn't always starting given the expected output from the likes of Henderson, Lallana, Coutinho is higher.
I think people forget sometimes that Allen was pretty much a constant in last year's title tilt, and was part of some of our finest performances, such as the 0-5 battering of Spurs.
Allen is one of those players that plays well when the team plays well but can't drag a performance out of the team and lift everyone else
About as awkward as you must find your 'That's a truly awful suggestion' response to my thread suggesting Can was worth a go at the back. Or all of the other hyperbolic bollocks you came out with about Rodgers pre-Christmas. But hey, yes...Joe Allen played reasonably well against Crystal Palace.
'Brilliant'? He was decent enough (which I suppose is 'brilliant' when measured against his usual level), but that's stretching it.
So pleased for Ryan that he finally got to send his Allen post. It's been saved in the drafts folder for some weeks now.
Or "Coutinho was horrendous" against Bolton. Or "Lallana scores and creates goals, Coutinho evades people on the halfway line", right before the little evading Brazilian set up two and scored a screamer in the space of four days.
I agree. I wrote the following a few backs in the Dortmund thread.
I think Şahin suffered from some of the problems that Joe Allen also faces in our team. They both want to be the 2nd central midfielder. Not the out and out defensive one or the attacking one, the 2nd midfielder of a midfield three if that makes any sense?
Allen is a bit screwed in our set up. Lucas is better than him as the DM. Henderson is better than him as the 2nd midfielder and Gerrard plus a host of others are better than him as the attacking midfielder of the three.
Şahin played as the attacking midfielder for us for a bit in an effort to pigeon hole him into the team. At Dortmund he was more of a deep lying play maker. With us he was asked to get into the box and link up with the forwards. Joe Allen was also asked to play this role when he first arrived.
He would be a much better and much more pivotal player for us if only he could lower his frequency of getting injured, recover faster from injuries, and also took less time to get back to sharpness after injuries. When he's in good shape and form, I find him quite a joy to watch - tenacious in his pressing / harrying, quick short passing, good in tight situations and on the turn, i.e. the stuff he did well against Palace.
However, it's when he's sharp that you then expect an injury is just around the corner. He goes out for 4 to 6 weeks, comes back to a team that is playing well and so needs to wait for his turn. Gets his turn eventually, takes a few games to get up to speed, hits a good patch, and then an injury hits again.
Over these 3 seasons, he's played 27, 24 and 12 league games (so far this season). Even in the first season, he was playing hurt from November onwards, so wasn't that effective for the rest of that season until he had his shoulder surgery.
Unlike Sturridge, we aren't as reliant on him due to our better depth at CM, so his absence tends not to be felt as badly. That doesn't make him mediocre though. He's got 2 years left on his contract in the summer (like Lucas) - if Lucas ends up extending his contract and we have to sell some players to raise funds to add to the budget for some top class players, Allen would be a good asset to shop around for offers. There will be demand in the league (or even in the La Liga) for someone at his age, with his abilities and experience, and who is not a troublemaker. If Lucas goes though, then I think we should keep Allen as we'd otherwise be losing too many CMs in one summer.
We can't raise funds just by dumping our garbage. While I like him, I think he's one of the good ones we can afford to move on if needed, if it meant we could/would use the funds to strengthen further.
However, it's when he's sharp that you then expect an injury is just around the corner. He goes out for 4 to 6 weeks, comes back to a team that is playing well and so needs to wait for his turn. Gets his turn eventually, takes a few games to get up to speed, hits a good patch, and then an injury hits again.
Over these 3 seasons, he's played 27, 24 and 12 league games (so far this season). Even in the first season, he was playing hurt from November onwards, so wasn't that effective for the rest of that season until he had his shoulder surgery.
Unlike Sturridge, we aren't as reliant on him due to our better depth at CM, so his absence tends not to be felt as badly. That doesn't make him mediocre though. He's got 2 years left on his contract in the summer (like Lucas) - if Lucas ends up extending his contract and we have to sell some players to raise funds to add to the budget for some top class players, Allen would be a good asset to shop around for offers. There will be demand in the league (or even in the La Liga) for someone at his age, with his abilities and experience, and who is not a troublemaker. If Lucas goes though, then I think we should keep Allen as we'd otherwise be losing too many CMs in one summer.
We can't raise funds just by dumping our garbage. While I like him, I think he's one of the good ones we can afford to move on if needed, if it meant we could/would use the funds to strengthen further.
My biggest issue is the athleticism he's lost since his Swansea days. At Swansea, he seemed much quicker and sharper, and played box-to-box at times.
I wonder if there's a major injury issue with him - he's never had a run of being properly fit during his time here.
I wonder if there's a major injury issue with him - he's never had a run of being properly fit during his time here.
In the premiership, he started 15 games and came off the bench 9 times.
I don't think you can call a player a "constant" if he has started less than half the time.
He hasn't been the same player since he got that chicken, I hope young players out there look at Allen before they get involved in poultry.
I used to think Allen was a bit of a problem because I thought Rodgers was looking to build the midfield around him but that's clearly not the case and if it ever was the constant injuries probably put paid to that idea.
These days the main problems with him are that he's constantly picking up injuries and we never quite get to see him at his best for very long and that his best is limited to a smaller number of midfield set-ups than some would like.
That said, he's well worth hanging onto for the time being. He's still young, contributes to the home-grown quota, is likely on pretty reasonable wages, seems to have a good attitude and putting aside the unfortunate Xavi comparison (where did that come from anyways?) is actually a pretty capable squad player. A lot of pluses there.
I think next season will be key for him. The departure of Gerrard will see a new hierarchy in midfield established and in order to place high he'll have to stay fit.
These days the main problems with him are that he's constantly picking up injuries and we never quite get to see him at his best for very long and that his best is limited to a smaller number of midfield set-ups than some would like.
That said, he's well worth hanging onto for the time being. He's still young, contributes to the home-grown quota, is likely on pretty reasonable wages, seems to have a good attitude and putting aside the unfortunate Xavi comparison (where did that come from anyways?) is actually a pretty capable squad player. A lot of pluses there.
I think next season will be key for him. The departure of Gerrard will see a new hierarchy in midfield established and in order to place high he'll have to stay fit.
OK, constant is overstating it, but it isn't far off it to say he was almost always involved when he was fit. When he was fit, he was there, or thereabouts. His injuries kept him out at times and yet he was involved in 24 from 38 league games. He did play a considerable part.
I'll give you Wilshire although he has regressed. The others are much more advanced except for arteta who is poor.
Yup he did play a good part in the final run. The way his season went was like this: benchwarming, injured, benchwarming, starts, hits form, injured, benchwarming, starts, benchwarming, starts.
Match Minutes Played / Status
Stoke City on the bench
Aston Villa 7'
Manchester Utd. Thigh Muscle Strain
Swansea City Thigh Muscle Strain
Southampton FC not in the squad
Sunderland AFC not in the squad
Crystal Palace not in the squad
Newcastle Utd. on the bench
West Brom 4'
Arsenal FC on the bench
Fulham FC 23'
Everton 68'
Hull City on the bench
Norwich 90'
West Ham Utd. 90'
Spurs 90'
Cardiff 90'
Manchester City 90'
Chelsea FC 60'
Hull City Groin Injury
Stoke City Groin Injury
Aston Villa 24'
Everton not in the squad
West Brom 16'
Arsenal FC 24'
Fulham FC on the bench
Swansea City 32'
Southampton FC 90'
Manchester Utd. 90'
Cardiff 90'
Sunderland AFC 90'
Spurs 26'
West Ham Utd. on the bench
Manchester City 24'
Norwich 81'
Chelsea FC 90'
Crystal Palace 90'
Newcastle Utd. 59'
Ryan will be reminding us Paul Lambert is a brilliant manager next.
This is the worst one. Not a chance would Allen have started that game if Hendo hadn't got suspended.
I don't think that was a problem, to be honest, given that our problem in that game was scoring rather than solidity in the middle. We ran out of ideas and while Henderson is more adventurous than Allen, I don't think he'd have made enough of a difference to our approach in breaking them down. If only we had Ibe, Lallana, or even Can / Moreno / Markovic to throw on last season. That, and a fitter Sturridge of course. The first two would especially have given us an additional dimension to our attacks in that second half. As it was, we kept forcing shots and passes through the cluttered centre, or crossing high into the box from wide for them to clear easily.
Shame our "New Swansea" plan suffered, we were forced to change plan and went from Swansea level to Liverpool level...
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