Isn't that a kebab that la? (The AL-Hilal Match & build up thread)
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It's not so much an attack on Lucas personally. It's more the fact that such a mediocre player can even be considered captain for a first team game. It shows how far we've fallen, and how terrible our squad has become.
Did this get called off?
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=41004.msg1137794#msg1137794 date=1279467656]
It's not so much an attack on Lucas personally. It's more the fact that such a mediocre player can even be considered captain for a first team game. It shows how far we've fallen, and how terrible our squad has become.
[/quote]
Well actually is shows that most of our squad was good enough to be off playing in the world fucking cup, which shows the opposite of the point you make.
It's not so much an attack on Lucas personally. It's more the fact that such a mediocre player can even be considered captain for a first team game. It shows how far we've fallen, and how terrible our squad has become.
[/quote]
Well actually is shows that most of our squad was good enough to be off playing in the world fucking cup, which shows the opposite of the point you make.
Yep. Good post Halmeister.
Although it is usually a personal attack where I'm concerned, because I fucking hate the fact that he is a Liverpool player and won't be happy until he fucks off out of Liverpool
Although it is usually a personal attack where I'm concerned, because I fucking hate the fact that he is a Liverpool player and won't be happy until he fucks off out of Liverpool
[quote author=crump link=topic=41004.msg1137797#msg1137797 date=1279467957]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=41004.msg1137794#msg1137794 date=1279467656]
It's not so much an attack on Lucas personally. It's more the fact that such a mediocre player can even be considered captain for a first team game. It shows how far we've fallen, and how terrible our squad has become.
[/quote]
Well actually is shows that most of our squad was good enough to be off playing in the world fucking cup, which shows the opposite of the point you make.
[/quote]
Yep. I'm getting a touch worried by your reasoned approach. You'll be chased off here with pitchforks and lighted torchs if you persist.
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=41004.msg1137794#msg1137794 date=1279467656]
It's not so much an attack on Lucas personally. It's more the fact that such a mediocre player can even be considered captain for a first team game. It shows how far we've fallen, and how terrible our squad has become.
[/quote]
Well actually is shows that most of our squad was good enough to be off playing in the world fucking cup, which shows the opposite of the point you make.
[/quote]
Yep. I'm getting a touch worried by your reasoned approach. You'll be chased off here with pitchforks and lighted torchs if you persist.
[quote author=crump link=topic=41004.msg1137797#msg1137797 date=1279467957]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=41004.msg1137794#msg1137794 date=1279467656]
It's not so much an attack on Lucas personally. It's more the fact that such a mediocre player can even be considered captain for a first team game. It shows how far we've fallen, and how terrible our squad has become.
[/quote]
Well actually is shows that most of our squad was good enough to be off playing in the world fucking cup, which shows the opposite of the point you make.
[/quote]
Yeah our squad was positively amazing last season, wasn't it?
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=41004.msg1137794#msg1137794 date=1279467656]
It's not so much an attack on Lucas personally. It's more the fact that such a mediocre player can even be considered captain for a first team game. It shows how far we've fallen, and how terrible our squad has become.
[/quote]
Well actually is shows that most of our squad was good enough to be off playing in the world fucking cup, which shows the opposite of the point you make.
[/quote]
Yeah our squad was positively amazing last season, wasn't it?
And also, if Lucas was good enough he would have been at the World Cup himself.
Shut up you fucking arsehole. There's no need to swan in and get shirty with me you little prick.
My point, and I made it perfectly fucking clear was that it wasn't anything personal, it was that the squad has too many weak links, no depth, not enough players suitable to captain the club. Even at reserve level. Eleven captains on the pitch and all that.
If you're happy with Lucas strutting around and being deemed worthy of the captains armband for LIVERPOOL FC then good for you. You'll be happy with the mediocrity that comes from him starting in one of the most important and crucial areas in the team. Just as we saw last season.
The long term implications aren't anything to do with who's captain for a pre season friendly, or who's at the world cup and who isn't, so get that out of your head for a start. I couldn't give a shit about the world cup. It's about who we have in our squad. Are they good enough? Do they inspire confidence? Do they motivate the rest of the team? In the case of younger players, do they show the potential to be able to hack it here? How many of those boxes does Lucas tick? Do you really want anybody at the club like that?
Go back a few years, around 2001. We may have some better individuals now, such as Torres, Mascherano, Reina etc. but what we did have then was squad depth. Good players, dependable, reliable players and pretty much captains everywhere. The squad then was a lot stronger, and there's no way that we'd be left with a player as mediocre as Lucas left as the most senior player here after a few of them head off to the world cup.
I realise that all the best players left for international duty and that he's one of the few choices available for the role. My fucking point is that the squad is so fucking shit that beyond the 16 or so players who ended up at the world cup (and a lot of them aren't too hot, either) Lucas is considered the best player. In fact, he's considered in the top 11 at the club regardless, obviously based on his appearence record last season.
And that's tragic.
Can you understand my incoherent, 'brainless bellend' spiel?
My point, and I made it perfectly fucking clear was that it wasn't anything personal, it was that the squad has too many weak links, no depth, not enough players suitable to captain the club. Even at reserve level. Eleven captains on the pitch and all that.
If you're happy with Lucas strutting around and being deemed worthy of the captains armband for LIVERPOOL FC then good for you. You'll be happy with the mediocrity that comes from him starting in one of the most important and crucial areas in the team. Just as we saw last season.
The long term implications aren't anything to do with who's captain for a pre season friendly, or who's at the world cup and who isn't, so get that out of your head for a start. I couldn't give a shit about the world cup. It's about who we have in our squad. Are they good enough? Do they inspire confidence? Do they motivate the rest of the team? In the case of younger players, do they show the potential to be able to hack it here? How many of those boxes does Lucas tick? Do you really want anybody at the club like that?
Go back a few years, around 2001. We may have some better individuals now, such as Torres, Mascherano, Reina etc. but what we did have then was squad depth. Good players, dependable, reliable players and pretty much captains everywhere. The squad then was a lot stronger, and there's no way that we'd be left with a player as mediocre as Lucas left as the most senior player here after a few of them head off to the world cup.
I realise that all the best players left for international duty and that he's one of the few choices available for the role. My fucking point is that the squad is so fucking shit that beyond the 16 or so players who ended up at the world cup (and a lot of them aren't too hot, either) Lucas is considered the best player. In fact, he's considered in the top 11 at the club regardless, obviously based on his appearence record last season.
And that's tragic.
Can you understand my incoherent, 'brainless bellend' spiel?
Surely all bellends are brainless, otherwise you've been doing it wrong.
That's me told innit.
But your point isn't working... coz the reason we were picking a player not deemed good enough to be captain in a crappy reserve game in the middle of July was that the majority of the squad are still on their jollies. Same reason Nathaniel Chalobah and Josh McEachran started for Chelsea on Saturday. I guess Essien captained them as he was fortunate enough to be injured and miss the world cup. It's why Tom Cleverley scored for Manure against Celtic yesterday. It's not the end of the world and we're not doomed. It's just the holidays.
But your point isn't working... coz the reason we were picking a player not deemed good enough to be captain in a crappy reserve game in the middle of July was that the majority of the squad are still on their jollies. Same reason Nathaniel Chalobah and Josh McEachran started for Chelsea on Saturday. I guess Essien captained them as he was fortunate enough to be injured and miss the world cup. It's why Tom Cleverley scored for Manure against Celtic yesterday. It's not the end of the world and we're not doomed. It's just the holidays.
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=41004.msg1138016#msg1138016 date=1279499832]
And also, if Lucas was good enough he would have been at the World Cup himself.
[/quote]
Lucas is still young and either shouldn't have been in our squad or should have been back up to a first choice midfield. So you're judging his international credentials based on the fact he was thrown in at the the deepend for us last season. As back up, if he'd remained that there wouldn't be half the abuse levelled at him, and it also didn't help throwing him in next to a defensive midfielder with zero attacking capability. When he played alongside Gerrard or Aquilani, or he himself played a more attacking role, he looked alot better for it. No one's saying he good enough, but our players left behind are all young players, so that's why there's a distinct lack of genuine quality. I don't think it's as bad a group of players as is being made out, but people getting all hoo-ha because there's no Gerrard Mark II waiting in the wings are just being, well.. thick.
And also, if Lucas was good enough he would have been at the World Cup himself.
[/quote]
Lucas is still young and either shouldn't have been in our squad or should have been back up to a first choice midfield. So you're judging his international credentials based on the fact he was thrown in at the the deepend for us last season. As back up, if he'd remained that there wouldn't be half the abuse levelled at him, and it also didn't help throwing him in next to a defensive midfielder with zero attacking capability. When he played alongside Gerrard or Aquilani, or he himself played a more attacking role, he looked alot better for it. No one's saying he good enough, but our players left behind are all young players, so that's why there's a distinct lack of genuine quality. I don't think it's as bad a group of players as is being made out, but people getting all hoo-ha because there's no Gerrard Mark II waiting in the wings are just being, well.. thick.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=41004.msg1138096#msg1138096 date=1279526023]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=41004.msg1138016#msg1138016 date=1279499832]
And also, if Lucas was good enough he would have been at the World Cup himself.
[/quote]
Lucas is still young and either shouldn't have been in our squad or should have been back up to a first choice midfield. So you're judging his international credentials based on the fact he was thrown in at the the deepend for us last season. As back up, if he'd remained that there wouldn't be half the abuse levelled at him, and it also didn't help throwing him in next to a defensive midfielder with zero attacking capability. When he played alongside Gerrard or Aquilani, or he himself played a more attacking role, he looked alot better for it. No one's saying he good enough, but our players left behind are all young players, so that's why there's a distinct lack of genuine quality. I don't think it's as bad a group of players as is being made out, but people getting all hoo-ha because there's no Gerrard Mark II waiting in the wings are just being, well.. thick.
[/quote]
I'm not attacking him personally, I'm aware he was given a tough job last season. He shouldn't be starting centre midfield for a club like Liverpool FC at this moment in time. None of that is his fault, I've never said it is.
My point is that a mediocre player, such as Lucas, is considered a senior figure for us within our playing staff. That doesn't bode too well.
Regardless of whether he went to the World Cup or not, he is still considered a starter, an important player, when in reality he shouldn't be anywhere near that level yet.
All of that indicates a poor squad, and a lack of depth.
That has been my point all the way through this thread. A salient one, and one that I think everybody would agree with.
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=41004.msg1138016#msg1138016 date=1279499832]
And also, if Lucas was good enough he would have been at the World Cup himself.
[/quote]
Lucas is still young and either shouldn't have been in our squad or should have been back up to a first choice midfield. So you're judging his international credentials based on the fact he was thrown in at the the deepend for us last season. As back up, if he'd remained that there wouldn't be half the abuse levelled at him, and it also didn't help throwing him in next to a defensive midfielder with zero attacking capability. When he played alongside Gerrard or Aquilani, or he himself played a more attacking role, he looked alot better for it. No one's saying he good enough, but our players left behind are all young players, so that's why there's a distinct lack of genuine quality. I don't think it's as bad a group of players as is being made out, but people getting all hoo-ha because there's no Gerrard Mark II waiting in the wings are just being, well.. thick.
[/quote]
I'm not attacking him personally, I'm aware he was given a tough job last season. He shouldn't be starting centre midfield for a club like Liverpool FC at this moment in time. None of that is his fault, I've never said it is.
My point is that a mediocre player, such as Lucas, is considered a senior figure for us within our playing staff. That doesn't bode too well.
Regardless of whether he went to the World Cup or not, he is still considered a starter, an important player, when in reality he shouldn't be anywhere near that level yet.
All of that indicates a poor squad, and a lack of depth.
That has been my point all the way through this thread. A salient one, and one that I think everybody would agree with.
Hal, Lucas was only given the armband because there was no one else to wear it. Surely someone who played 30 odd league games last year deserves it over some kids who are only in the squad to make up the numbers till the big boys return.
If the world cup lads we're around Lucas wouldn't dream off getting the chance to touch the armband never mind wear it. Gerrard, Carragher, Reina, Kuyt, Torres, Agger, Masherano etc would all wear it before him.
As for him not being in the world cup squad, well, that's another day's story that has no relevance in this situation.
I wouldn't let Lucas 'nearly' wearing the captains armband against Al Hilal get to you.
If the world cup lads we're around Lucas wouldn't dream off getting the chance to touch the armband never mind wear it. Gerrard, Carragher, Reina, Kuyt, Torres, Agger, Masherano etc would all wear it before him.
As for him not being in the world cup squad, well, that's another day's story that has no relevance in this situation.
I wouldn't let Lucas 'nearly' wearing the captains armband against Al Hilal get to you.
[quote author=ILD link=topic=41004.msg1138209#msg1138209 date=1279537757]
Hal, Lucas was only given the armband because there was no one else to wear it. Surely someone who played 30 odd league games last year deserves it over some kids who are only in the squad to make up the numbers till the big boys return.
If the world cup lads we're around Lucas wouldn't dream off getting the chance to touch the armband never mind wear it. Gerrard, Carragher, Reina, Kuyt, Torres, Agger, Masherano etc would all wear it before him.
As for him not being in the world cup squad, well, that's another day's story that has no relevance in this situation.
I wouldn't let Lucas 'nearly' wearing the captains armband against Al Hilal get to you.
[/quote]
Nothing's getting to me. Well nothing other than the fact I've been called a brainless bellend.
I agree with that, I just think that a lot of people are missing my point. That is all true what you've posted above, and I agree with it. The problem is that Lucas DID play all those games last season. He is seen as a starting centre midfielder at one of the nation's biggest clubs but he isn't good enough.
I fear that he won't be replaced in that role this season, he should be back up. Ideally we would sign two established centre midfielders this summer. One to replace Mascherano, and the other so that Lucas can drop back down to the bench. But we probably won't, and Lucas will continue to be one of the first names on the team sheet. Which is unfortunate, which in turn is my point.
Hal, Lucas was only given the armband because there was no one else to wear it. Surely someone who played 30 odd league games last year deserves it over some kids who are only in the squad to make up the numbers till the big boys return.
If the world cup lads we're around Lucas wouldn't dream off getting the chance to touch the armband never mind wear it. Gerrard, Carragher, Reina, Kuyt, Torres, Agger, Masherano etc would all wear it before him.
As for him not being in the world cup squad, well, that's another day's story that has no relevance in this situation.
I wouldn't let Lucas 'nearly' wearing the captains armband against Al Hilal get to you.
[/quote]
Nothing's getting to me. Well nothing other than the fact I've been called a brainless bellend.
I agree with that, I just think that a lot of people are missing my point. That is all true what you've posted above, and I agree with it. The problem is that Lucas DID play all those games last season. He is seen as a starting centre midfielder at one of the nation's biggest clubs but he isn't good enough.
I fear that he won't be replaced in that role this season, he should be back up. Ideally we would sign two established centre midfielders this summer. One to replace Mascherano, and the other so that Lucas can drop back down to the bench. But we probably won't, and Lucas will continue to be one of the first names on the team sheet. Which is unfortunate, which in turn is my point.
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=41004.msg1138216#msg1138216 date=1279538142]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=41004.msg1138209#msg1138209 date=1279537757]
Hal, Lucas was only given the armband because there was no one else to wear it. Surely someone who played 30 odd league games last year deserves it over some kids who are only in the squad to make up the numbers till the big boys return.
If the world cup lads we're around Lucas wouldn't dream off getting the chance to touch the armband never mind wear it. Gerrard, Carragher, Reina, Kuyt, Torres, Agger, Masherano etc would all wear it before him.
As for him not being in the world cup squad, well, that's another day's story that has no relevance in this situation.
I wouldn't let Lucas 'nearly' wearing the captains armband against Al Hilal get to you.
[/quote]
Nothing's getting to me. Well nothing other than the fact I've been called a brainless bellend.
I agree with that, I just think that a lot of people are missing my point. That is all true what you've posted above, and I agree with it. The problem is that Lucas DID play all those games last season. He is seen as a starting centre midfielder at one of the nation's biggest clubs but he isn't good enough.
I fear that he won't be replaced in that role this season, he should be back up. Ideally we would sign two established centre midfielders this summer. One to replace Mascherano, and the other so that Lucas can drop back down to the bench. But we probably won't, and Lucas will continue to be one of the first names on the team sheet. Which is unfortunate, which in turn is my point.
[/quote]
He played so much last season as we we're short in that department and the former manager had a soft spot for the much maligned midfielder. The Xabi Alonso shaped hole in the centre of the park was not filled and Aqualani's fitness and state of mind was all over the place. We have a new manager and have been linked to Banega, Defour and half of Inter for our midfield. We are yet to play a game nevermind a league game so for all we know Lucas might start on the bench and stay there come August. For all we know, Palermo might increase their offer.
As I said, don't hit the panic button just yet.
[quote author=ILD link=topic=41004.msg1138209#msg1138209 date=1279537757]
Hal, Lucas was only given the armband because there was no one else to wear it. Surely someone who played 30 odd league games last year deserves it over some kids who are only in the squad to make up the numbers till the big boys return.
If the world cup lads we're around Lucas wouldn't dream off getting the chance to touch the armband never mind wear it. Gerrard, Carragher, Reina, Kuyt, Torres, Agger, Masherano etc would all wear it before him.
As for him not being in the world cup squad, well, that's another day's story that has no relevance in this situation.
I wouldn't let Lucas 'nearly' wearing the captains armband against Al Hilal get to you.
[/quote]
Nothing's getting to me. Well nothing other than the fact I've been called a brainless bellend.
I agree with that, I just think that a lot of people are missing my point. That is all true what you've posted above, and I agree with it. The problem is that Lucas DID play all those games last season. He is seen as a starting centre midfielder at one of the nation's biggest clubs but he isn't good enough.
I fear that he won't be replaced in that role this season, he should be back up. Ideally we would sign two established centre midfielders this summer. One to replace Mascherano, and the other so that Lucas can drop back down to the bench. But we probably won't, and Lucas will continue to be one of the first names on the team sheet. Which is unfortunate, which in turn is my point.
[/quote]
He played so much last season as we we're short in that department and the former manager had a soft spot for the much maligned midfielder. The Xabi Alonso shaped hole in the centre of the park was not filled and Aqualani's fitness and state of mind was all over the place. We have a new manager and have been linked to Banega, Defour and half of Inter for our midfield. We are yet to play a game nevermind a league game so for all we know Lucas might start on the bench and stay there come August. For all we know, Palermo might increase their offer.
As I said, don't hit the panic button just yet.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=41004.msg1138219#msg1138219 date=1279538315]
We all know the squad is thin. It's why the likes of N'Gog, Insua and Lucas played so often last season.
I don't see the point of getting all angsty about Lucas being given the armband for a pre-season friendly against a Saudia-Arabian side.
[/quote]
I know, I was just reiterating it.
Like I said, it's not so much that he's captain, it's the fact that he is now held in such high esteem at the club. He was trusted to play in arguably the most important position of the field for the whole of last season, and looks set to do it again this season. None of it is his fault, mind.
I'm going around in circles, and I don't think anybody would really disagree with my point if they knew what I was on about so I'll just leave it.
We all know the squad is thin. It's why the likes of N'Gog, Insua and Lucas played so often last season.
I don't see the point of getting all angsty about Lucas being given the armband for a pre-season friendly against a Saudia-Arabian side.
[/quote]
I know, I was just reiterating it.
Like I said, it's not so much that he's captain, it's the fact that he is now held in such high esteem at the club. He was trusted to play in arguably the most important position of the field for the whole of last season, and looks set to do it again this season. None of it is his fault, mind.
I'm going around in circles, and I don't think anybody would really disagree with my point if they knew what I was on about so I'll just leave it.
Yeah, fair enough ILD. Hopefully. I've heard good things about most of the players linked with us who play centre mid, so that's a positive. Let's hope it comes off.
S
Squiggles
Guest
I don't think Aquilani and Gerrard will be paired together unless Roy really plans on restricting Gerrard, which would be pretty stupid, because Gerrard always gets more goals and assists.
Mascherano needs to be hurry up and sold so we can concentrate on getting the right platform for the side.
Mascherano needs to be hurry up and sold so we can concentrate on getting the right platform for the side.
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