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Is this as bad as the early 90's?

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Dreambeliever

Dreambeliever

Will he believe again?
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It's only been one year outside the top 4 but it feels so much worse than anytime gone by.

For those who went through the glory years and back, which has been harder?

Our current plight or those horrible pre Evans year( Not that his were great but at least it was the beginning of the turn around).
 
Have been a fan since 90 so not sure about the glory years but right now is no way anything like the souness era I don't think, still think the current team should have finished well in the top 4 but mostly due to some major mismanagement it didn't. Have 4 players who can play for any team in the world and if we can keep them will still be positive.
Even a new manager took over, he will have a team with the a spine, wheres as in the 90s I felt the sight of 18yr old Fowler was the only real light, I know there was Macca and Redknapp also but really sure the really wasn't sure how much progress they would make.
I know it's hard to stay positive with a so much uncertainty but glad theres a world cup, at least it will help with the rumors till there are any concrete announcements.
 
basically rafa has built the team to be overly reliant on two players and the chickens have come home to roost. that is such a start contrast from when rafa first arrived and every pitched in or when rafa won the league in spain and the highest goal scorer had 7 goals. to be fair when you have gerrard and torres its hard NOT to become reliant on them.
 
[quote author=rubans link=topic=40178.msg1102533#msg1102533 date=1273501558]
Have been a fan since 90 so not sure about the glory years but right now is no way anything like the souness era I don't think, still think the current team should have finished well in the top 4 but mostly due to some major mismanagement it didn't. Have 4 players who can play for any team in the world and if we can keep them will still be positive.
Even a new manager took over, he will have a team with the a spine, wheres as in the 90s I felt the sight of 18yr old Fowler was the only real light, I know there was Macca and Redknapp also but really sure the really wasn't sure how much progress they would make.
I know it's hard to stay positive with a so much uncertainty but glad theres a world cup, at least it will help with the rumors till there are any concrete announcements.
[/quote]

Excellent post.
 
For me, this is the lowest ebb. After Dalglish left, we made some wrong turns but I always felt that it wouldn't take a huge amount to get things right again - just a good manager. I thought Evans might be able to do it... and then I thought Houllier was definitely going to do it. I rarely if ever thought Rafa was going to do it, at least I can't remember ever being really confident. Now, although it's far from being all Rafa's fault, I think we're in danger of fading out and becoming another Spurs type team. We'll continue to have some good players but we won't be a serious club again for quite some time.
 
Gene, even when Rafa took us so close to the title, you never thought we might win the title? We were a great team 08/09.
I don't think we are in anywhere near a bad of a state as when GS left.
 
I'm not sure to be honest. I guess I must have believed it at some point that season and yet all I can remember is thinking it would surely fall apart.
 
The problem with our current situation is it isn't just on the field where we have issues - we've got major off-the-field issues as well which essentially magnifies the problem
 
Humm good point Sunny. Our squad isn't in as bad of a state (at the moment) is maybe what I should of said.
 
This is much, much more depressing than it was then. I used to have nightmares about our central defence; now I have nightmares about all our best players being sold to pay off our escalating debt. The football world is much tougher and more competitive than it was then, and - as Avmenon said - in 1993 it wasn't all that long since we were the best team in England. That feels like a lifetime away now.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40178.msg1102596#msg1102596 date=1273512185]
This is much, much more depressing than it was then. I used to have nightmares about our central defence; now I have nightmares about all our best players being sold to pay off our escalating debt. The football world is much tougher and more competitive than it was then, and - as Avmenon said - in 1993 it wasn't all that long since we were the best team in England. That feels like a lifetime away now.

[/quote]

And if feels like it will never happen again as well
 
The main issues are on the field.
We would talk a lot less about off-the field issues if Rafa had brought us to 4th spot and 2nd phase of Champions League, which he should have with this squad.
I'd say its the worst season since 99.

Main priority now is a new manager, then new owners.
A very good 2nd striker, a decent LB and new LW will be enough for a new and less clueless manager to get in top 4 next season.
 
le Chacal, you say the main problems are on the field and you want to solve it by sacking the manager and the owners. Then spending a lot of money we don't have on players.
 
Le Chac - main problem are the owners. No new owners - no new investment in a team that obviously needs it.
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=40178.msg1102605#msg1102605 date=1273512999]
le Chacal, you say the main problems are on the field and you want to solve it by sacking the manager and the owners. Then spending a lot of money we don't have on players.
[/quote]
Well Broughton said it will be a matter of months to get new owners.
These 3 players we need would cost circa £40M. Im sure new owners + players sales will bring enough money to buy them.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=40178.msg1102608#msg1102608 date=1273513255]
Le Chac - main problem are the owners. No new owners - no new investment in a team that obviously needs it.
[/quote]

With that squad, we should have finished 4th and qualified for knock-out stage in CL.
A very big financial loss. Maybe, just maybe the current owners wouldnt have been forced to sell.
Of course now we need new owners but my point is the root of all this saga comes from bad results on the field.
Not the other way round.
A decent manager will reach that goal quite easily. The sooner he's hired and can work with his squad the better.
Rafa's baffling decisions cost us trophies and millions.

We need a proper clean slate now starting with a new manager.
 
I'm not denying we need a new manager. I agree with that. I don't want a mediocre manager like Hodgson or O'Neill though. If Rafa is to be replaced we need a quality replacement or, as you state, a "decent manager". No quality replacement will come near our team without the promise of investment in the team. That's not going to happen without new owners. It's a shite situation but it is what it is.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=40178.msg1102617#msg1102617 date=1273514536]
I'm not denying we need a new manager. I agree with that. I don't want a mediocre manager like Hodgson or O'Neill though. If Rafa is to be replaced we need a quality replacement or, as you state, a "decent manager". No quality replacement will come near our team without the promise of investment in the team. That's not going to happen without new owners. It's a shite situation but it is what it is.
[/quote]

I wouldnt say they're mediocre managers 😉 but yeah I agree we need someone else.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=40178.msg1102617#msg1102617 date=1273514536]
I'm not denying we need a new manager. I agree with that. I don't want a mediocre manager like Hodgson or O'Neill though. If Rafa is to be replaced we need a quality replacement or, as you state, a "decent manager". No quality replacement will come near our team without the promise of investment in the team. That's not going to happen without new owners. It's a shite situation but it is what it is.
[/quote]

How is Hodgson mediocre Sunny?

Loads of successful managers have not been with a super club before and have not won CL. Roy has a great record and deserves a chance IMO

What defines quality as a manager, was Wenger quality when he came to Arsenal?
 
Benitez - 55.41 % win rate. Hodgson - 39.6%. O'Neill - 53.15% including the joke that is the SPL i.e. Celtic 75% win rate. They're not good enough. Simple as,.
 
Hodgson still has a legendary status in Switzerland.
He took us to the WC 94, we had Italy and Portugal in the group.

Having said that, he's not the man we need.
We all know the one we need.
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=40178.msg1102629#msg1102629 date=1273516275]
Do we get parachute payments now that we've been relegated from the Champions' League?
[/quote]

Ha ha ha !
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=40178.msg1102632#msg1102632 date=1273517128]
Hodgson still has a legendary status in Switzerland.
He took us to the WC 94, we had Italy and Portugal in the group.

Having said that, he's not the man we need.
We all know the one we need.
[/quote]

Are you still sure he'll come without new owners/investment ?
 
[quote author=Fox link=topic=40178.msg1102624#msg1102624 date=1273515096]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=40178.msg1102617#msg1102617 date=1273514536]
I'm not denying we need a new manager. I agree with that. I don't want a mediocre manager like Hodgson or O'Neill though. If Rafa is to be replaced we need a quality replacement or, as you state, a "decent manager". No quality replacement will come near our team without the promise of investment in the team. That's not going to happen without new owners. It's a shite situation but it is what it is.
[/quote]

How is Hodgson mediocre Sunny?

Loads of successful managers have not been with a super club before and have not won CL. Roy has a great record and deserves a chance IMO

What defines quality as a manager, was Wenger quality when he came to Arsenal?
[/quote]

Track record is important, tho admittedly Rafa's was pretty good too.

Main thing is there are no guarantees, but I think most of us here would agree that Rafa isnt going to turn this around.

So will we look back at Rafa's 'Golden Age'?

Maybe, but we cant stay on this path we're on; and we'll have to accept the risks entailed.

PS wenger's record pre-Arsenal :

Monaco
Winner
Ligue 1 (1): 1987–88
Coupe de France (1): 1990–91
Runner-up
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1991–92
Ligue 1 (3): 1990–91 1991–92 1992–93
Nagoya Grampus
Winner
Emperor's Cup (1): 1995
J-League Super Cup (1): 1996
Runner-up
J. League (1): 1996
 
Legendary status in Switzerland eh? Sign him now. Hodgson failed miserably at Blackburn and has had moderate success with Fulham. O'Neill and his Ron Hill trackie bottoms can fuck off. The sight of him jigging around on our touchline would do my swede in. Neither are them are good enough. As for Arsene Wenger - his teams play nice football but he's won naff all for years now. Last league title was 6 years ago. Maybe he's just "lost his way". Like Benitez.
 
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