is it knee jerk to to sack a manager after 8 league games?

[mark1975]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42293.msg1199730#msg1199730 date=1287385080]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42293.msg1199725#msg1199725 date=1287384292]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42293.msg1199723#msg1199723 date=1287383950]
people surely have to admit sacking a manager after 8 games sets a 'very' precedent because what happens if the poor run continues? what do you do then?
[/quote]

I'd be dead against changing for the sake of it, but it's not really the case, sometimes you have to make bold decisions to save a team. We're in crisis, there's no getting away from it. It's ok now when you win a game and move up four, five or six places. What happens as time goes on and you barely move up a place for getting a win? It's a quarter of the way through the season and he just has to go, we need to appoint someone like Kenny until the end of the season and hope for the best, and at this stage I really would take O'Neill too over Hodgson.
[/quote]

one of the reasons a stated for not sacking rafa was it would start a revolving door of managers, I seriously, seriously hope I'm wrong about that.
if NESV were asking me for my advice (ha ha) I would tell them to sack roy (NOW) install kenny and give him the simple brief of keeping us up, then sound out a new hungry manager with progressive ideas who can bring down the average age of the sqaud, improve the footbll and work in tandem with their ideas that brought red sox back to the top. by roy's own admission he is too set in his ways.

that basically rules out the likes of MON and managers of vast experience, our brief should be long term with us treading water in the short term. how long did it take kilinsman and loew to change the entire landscape of german football?
[/quote]

It's different at International level though because you have limited training/game time with your squad, so it was something that was exercised over a good few years, it'd be a different case with a club side. Whether that makes him more of a candidate for a 'Director of Football' role is the big question. But yeah, we need to look at the bigger picture, particularly financially and I think we to take some aspects of what the likes of Arsenal have done.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42293.msg1199734#msg1199734 date=1287385344]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42293.msg1199730#msg1199730 date=1287385080]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42293.msg1199725#msg1199725 date=1287384292]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42293.msg1199723#msg1199723 date=1287383950]
people surely have to admit sacking a manager after 8 games sets a 'very' precedent because what happens if the poor run continues? what do you do then?
[/quote]

I'd be dead against changing for the sake of it, but it's not really the case, sometimes you have to make bold decisions to save a team. We're in crisis, there's no getting away from it. It's ok now when you win a game and move up four, five or six places. What happens as time goes on and you barely move up a place for getting a win? It's a quarter of the way through the season and he just has to go, we need to appoint someone like Kenny until the end of the season and hope for the best, and at this stage I really would take O'Neill too over Hodgson.
[/quote]

one of the reasons a stated for not sacking rafa was it would start a revolving door of managers, I seriously, seriously hope I'm wrong about that.
if NESV were asking me for my advice (ha ha) I would tell them to sack roy (NOW) install kenny and give him the simple brief of keeping us up, then sound out a new hungry manager with progressive ideas who can bring down the average age of the sqaud, improve the footbll and work in tandem with their ideas that brought red sox back to the top. by roy's own admission he is too set in his ways.

that basically rules out the likes of MON and managers of vast experience, our brief should be long term with us treading water in the short term. how long did it take kilinsman and loew to change the entire landscape of german football?
[/quote]

It's different at International level though because you have limited training/game time with your squad, so it was something that was exercised over a good few years, it'd be a different case with a club side. Whether that makes him more of a candidate for a 'Director of Football' role is the big question. But yeah, we need to look at the bigger picture, particularly financially and I think we to take some aspects of what the likes of Arsenal have done.
[/quote]

absolutely mark. I'm fearful of a panic shopping spree in jan with players that will only have to be moved on a couple of years from now.
if a new manager came in tomorrow would the likes of konchesky, poulsen survive past the summer? short term fixes by roy.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=KopPoNok link=topic=42293.msg1199359#msg1199359 date=1287337089]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42293.msg1199355#msg1199355 date=1287336988]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42293.msg1199345#msg1199345 date=1287336691]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42293.msg1199340#msg1199340 date=1287336416]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42293.msg1199333#msg1199333 date=1287336139]
I think the point with managers, at this stage, is you have to have seen 'something'. You have to be able to recognise where they are going. Right now we're going nowhere, no style, shape, tactic, preference, anything. It's rare that you find yourself wanting a gaffa gone at this stage, but it doesn't look good.

He said give him 10 games, we've seen nothing. It's a quarter of the way though the season near enough and we're in the bottom three, and I don't give a shiny shite what anyone says about what we were left with (and Rafa fucked up Royally over the last two seasons), we're better than this.

Nice man, wrong man. Time to cut bait.
[/quote]

good post marky 🙂
[/quote]

Not alot you can say really. I'm sure the 'I knew all along-ists' will be gleefully looking at their smug fucking grin tonight, but realistically you back what you're given, regardless, as a fan, what else can you do? But he's done nothing, he was given minimalistic expectations in steadying the ship and keeping things ticking over, instead he's jumped in with half a tonne of bricks and we're in danger of going under. Nice logic but it just hasn't worked out. It's time to save this team.
[/quote]

I thought roy was a poor appointment but not in my wildest nightmare did I imagine he would be THIS bad. seriously, where's his 'plan b'?
[/quote]

I don't even know what's his plan a.
[/quote]

I doubt he does either.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=42293.msg1199748#msg1199748 date=1287386254]
[quote author=KopPoNok link=topic=42293.msg1199359#msg1199359 date=1287337089]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42293.msg1199355#msg1199355 date=1287336988]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42293.msg1199345#msg1199345 date=1287336691]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42293.msg1199340#msg1199340 date=1287336416]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42293.msg1199333#msg1199333 date=1287336139]
I think the point with managers, at this stage, is you have to have seen 'something'. You have to be able to recognise where they are going. Right now we're going nowhere, no style, shape, tactic, preference, anything. It's rare that you find yourself wanting a gaffa gone at this stage, but it doesn't look good.

He said give him 10 games, we've seen nothing. It's a quarter of the way though the season near enough and we're in the bottom three, and I don't give a shiny shite what anyone says about what we were left with (and Rafa fucked up Royally over the last two seasons), we're better than this.

Nice man, wrong man. Time to cut bait.
[/quote]

good post marky 🙂
[/quote]

Not alot you can say really. I'm sure the 'I knew all along-ists' will be gleefully looking at their smug fucking grin tonight, but realistically you back what you're given, regardless, as a fan, what else can you do? But he's done nothing, he was given minimalistic expectations in steadying the ship and keeping things ticking over, instead he's jumped in with half a tonne of bricks and we're in danger of going under. Nice logic but it just hasn't worked out. It's time to save this team.
[/quote]

I thought roy was a poor appointment but not in my wildest nightmare did I imagine he would be THIS bad. seriously, where's his 'plan b'?
[/quote]

I don't even know what's his plan a.
[/quote]

I doubt he does either.
[/quote]

he doesn't even know how many games we've lost...

 

[KopPoNok]

To be fair, it's easier for him to answer how many games have we won than how many games have we lost.

 

[Richey]

Its not a knee jerk reaction when its the same old shit week after week and when the manager doesn't even seem to accept that there are real problems with the team and tactics.

When managers go into new clubs it often takes a little while for them to find their feet and work out their best team and how they want it to play. It seems that Hodgson has already decided on his methods, and they're not working.

Its not nice to keep sacking managers, and I still agree that Benitez had to go because he was a failure, but sometimes you know you're onto a loser. Look at Spurs a few years back. Relegation zone, sacked the manager then ended up challenging for Europe.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Liverpool's problems run deeper than the Manager « Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 11:29:30 PM »Quote Many mentions of players and managers but not one reference to who is actually steering the club. The title of the topic is appropriate, but the content lacks any reference to director level leadership.

Mr Henry and Co: the euphoria of Friday's litigation result has well and truly worn off. With all due respect, your first task isn't to replace the manager but to appoint someone qualified to make that decision.

G'night

I kind of agree with this.

 

[Judge Jules]

I don't. Roy's got to go before he can be replaced, and those who appointed him - brilliant job though they did on the old owners - aren't going to make it happen. I hope Henry sees that and acts now.

 

[Squiggles]

We need a new manager and a new squad.

It's difficult to support these players at the minute. We need a revolution, a manager with a vision, and a long term plan to achieve it. This squad is going nowhere fast.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42293.msg1199995#msg1199995 date=1287410234]
We need a new manager and a new squad.

It's difficult to support these players at the minute. We need a revolution, a manager with a vision, and a long term plan to achieve it. This squad is going nowhere fast.
[/quote]

we could have said the same thing about GH's squad, a season later they were winning the CL.

 

[Squiggles]

And Rafa gutted it straight away.

 

[etchy]

gotta go. The stats are really damning and worse, the general play is terrible. You would have thought ok owners situation may have some effect. But now it's resolved, still the crap, headless play. I think as much a nice guy he is, he's lost the players. The ones standing for him would be fellow managers associated with the Manure. It's in their interest to see this continued inspid team.

 

[jexykrodic]

When opposing managers are getting behind him and telling us he'll get it right you know its time to go as they see us as an easy touch.

 

[Molbystwin]

The way I look at it Roy probably earned his shot at a big club but he is making a complete pigs ear of it at the minute.... Look I don't want any manager sacked as an LFC fan unless they are just wrong for the job, personally I thought he was wrong for the job from day one, but then I wasn't delusional enough to think sacking Rafa was a miracle cure. Academic now.

It isn't the Liverpool way to sack a manager so early in his tenure, but so far Roy has shown little or no real understanding of what is required, no fucking around he has to grow some balls and grow them now or he is a gonna. As for the players, well, some of them should consider their days at the club to be short numbered and play for dignity at least. We don't just need a win desperately we need to play well and win, that may change the picture which is absolutely dismal at the moment

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=42293.msg1200043#msg1200043 date=1287414014]
When opposing managers are getting behind him and telling us he'll get it right you know its time to go as they see us as an easy touch.
[/quote]

I'm honestly not sure that's right. It's what they almost always do in such circs, Rafa being one of few exceptions.

 

[Molbystwin]

I agree with jj. Roy is respected because unlike Rafa he gives it, strangely enough the most desired messianic figure many people want is Mourinho, and the most successful manager is the generally obnoxious Ferguson. Too nice? I'm not sure.... I just know that he has to step up his game and do it NOW or Liverpool way or no it will be curtains for him. I hope he does and we enjoy some kind of watershed positive moment and start getting back up towards where we belong. I'm sick of my students taking the piss out of me and miserable hours every weekend.... And the hangovers they cause.

The bullets are loaded into the gun , he has a couple of matches left before the bang.

 

[KopPoNok]

I'd probably cancel my sports channel subscription after the blackburn game, if he's not sack by then.

 

[Molbystwin]

[quote author=KopPoNok link=topic=42293.msg1200108#msg1200108 date=1287420515]
I'd probably cancel my sports channel subscription after the blackburn game, if he's not sack by then.
[/quote]

I can't remember the last game I enjoyed watching which involved LFC ... Beating the mancs at home last season probably... Too long a time... It is horrible.

 

[localny]

Is he still manager? The longer we wait the further away we get from the promised land of CL football. We could still make it next season...in three games, it will be too late.

 

[spider-Neil]

some people seem to think 4th (from top) is still possible...

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42293.msg1200122#msg1200122 date=1287421056]
some people seem to think 4th (from top) is still possible...
[/quote]


i know, it's unbelievable. IF we get going right now then i think we can make 6th, but i'm certain that chelsea, city, utd, arsenal and spurs will all finish above us.

 

[Spionkop69]

I've always been one of the advocates of the "the Liverpool Way". However, this point of principle could have long term negative implications for us.

In keeping a manager, who, even after a only a short time has not shown he can take us back to a position Rafa occupied before his fateful last season will cost us dear.

7th place was bad but with the ownership issue in the process of being resolved, we hung on to Gerrard and Torres. But a placing like that again or even worse - and lets face it, our style of play, our body language is that of a team who could be battling relegation - will potentially see us lose one of both of those players.

Obviously we may have some money from any sales of our crown jewels but then its a matter of attracting players better than we already have when we have little to offer but the "sleeping giant" tag. This brings the one season mercenarys who come for big wages and achieve little but promise loads.

So, much as it pains me, Roy has to go. And quickly. We need someone in now regardless of the result against Blackburn and I'd hope that our new owners, in conjunction with our board, are moving to replace Roy with someone. My worry is that it will be O'Neill, my hope is that its Dalglish in the interim with a plan to replace him with a long term manager at season's end.

Sorry Roy, it is time to go. Or to coin a phrase "Thanks for the one win in eight, now fuck off!".