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In Defence of our Defence..

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Kay Age El

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Not sure where to put this as it seems there are a lot of random chatter about our defence in a lot of random threads so here goes..

Maybe it's not quite as grim as it looks?

Before you tear my head off, don't get me wrong, our defence is not good enough in terms of personnel and we really did miss a golden opportunity to strengthen during the Summer's window, however, I think we should at least consider that there may be other influencing factors as to why we've started so poorly in terms of conceding.

Here goes..

Missed chances and squandered opportunities!

The first half yesterday against Leicester and more or less the entire games against Burnley and Sevilla was all the same. We were completely in control, almost devastating in our ways, attacking left, right and centre - however also extremely ineffective in front of goal and around the opponents penalty area.

Thing is, there's a balance in games and in teams and even if one team is well better than the opponent, games can easily tip if there's a lack of due diligence when it comes to converting pressure and dominance into goals.

A lack of goals will always send ripples throughout the team at some point and suddenly your game becomes less fluent and nervousness creeps in all over. I am not trying to absorb blame from some of the hapless defensive performances we've seen from Lovren, Klavan, Matip, TAA etc. I am merely trying to make a point, that maybe, if we had scored that peno, or bagged one of a hundred chances against Burnley etc., we would've, as a team, defended better and relieved pressure at the back more frequently.

Sometimes it really is a game of margins, and though I want us to buy a great defender come January as much as anyone else, I still feel more encouraged by our attacking play so far (well, apart from the lack of goals) than I do feel frustrated by our defensive game. If that makes any sense.
 
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Nah, every team goes through spells of dominating and not scoring in games. The problem is we don't have a defense capable of keeping it 0-0 until we find that goal if we doNt blow a team away early doors.

And it's not just our personsl, I would bet anything that Klopp doesn't spend anywhere near as much time on defensive coaching as he does offensive
 
Not sure where to put this as it seems there are a lot of random chatter about our defence in a lot of random threads so here goes..

Maybe it's not quite as grim as it looks?

Before you tear my head off, don't get me wrong, our defence is not good enough in terms of personnel and we really did miss a golden opportunity to strengthen during the Summer's window, however, I think we should at least consider that there may be other influencing factors as to why we've started so poorly in terms of conceding.

Here goes..

Missed chances and squandered opportunities!

The first half yesterday against Leicester and more or less the entire games against Burnley and Sevilla was all the same. We were completely in control, almost devastating in our ways, attacking left, right and centre - however also extremely ineffective in front of goal and around the opponents penalty area.

Thing is, there's a balance in games and in teams and even if one team is well better than the opponent, games can easily tip if there's a lack of due diligence when it comes to converting pressure and dominance into goals.

A lack of goals will always send ripples throughout the team at some point and suddenly your game becomes less fluent and nervousness creeps in all over. I am not trying to absorb blame from some of the hapless defensive performances we've seen from Lovren, Klavan, Matip, TAA etc. I am merely trying to make a point, that maybe, if we had scored that peno, or bagged one of a hundred chances against Burnley etc., we would've, as a team, defended better and relieved pressure at the back.

Sometimes it really is a game of margins, and though I want us to by a great defender come January as much as anyone else, I still feel more encouraged by our attacking play so far (well, apart from the lack of goals) than I do feel frustrated by our defensive game. If that makes any sense.
Doesn't matter how good your attack is if you're defence is shit. Take the Bournemouth game last season as a prime example. If you're 3-1 up the game should be over, but we managed to lose 4-3. Our defence is shit. It really is that straight forward.
 
Doesn't matter how good your attack is if you're defence is shit. Take the Bournemouth game last season as a prime example. If you're 3-1 up the game should be over, but we managed to lose 4-3. Our defence is shit. It really is that straight forward.

Glen C seems to be a rather black and white, no complex shades of grey type of person

And is also right
 
Funny how a transfer window can sometimes define a managerial reign. Ged did his no to Anelka but spunk load of money of Diouf. Rafa had his trying to ditch Alonso for Barry, and other examples. Kenny II had the Carroll and Downing debacle (although admittedly the lost Torres and got Suarez).
I wonder if this summer's failure to fix the alarming defence of last season will be Klopp's?
How can these players become hard to beat? Just seems unlikely at best. Impossible at worst.
 
This current defence is the worst in my memory of supporting the club. You can spot an opposition goal 15-20 seconds before it happens. Klaven would not start for any Premier League team. Matip is overhyped due to the Agger principle of looking all smooth on the ball. Lovren is bang average and Gomez isn't ready. All of the above is exacerbated by Klopp's game plan of providing limited defensive cover from midfield and allowing the full backs to bomb forward at every opportunity. I'm confident every single one of them would improve in another managers set up. Klopps playing a game that requires very good defenders with a load of average shite. Klopp obviously deserves faith and time, but it is concerning when you're average punter could improve the balance of this side tomorrow. He needs to be more pragmatic and accept the limitations of the defence if we're to get anywhere this season.

Just imagine what decent CL teams will do to us. It doesn't bear thinking about.
 
Funny how a transfer window can sometimes define a managerial reign. Ged did his no to Anelka but spunk load of money of Diouf. Rafa had his trying to ditch Alonso for Barry, and other examples. Kenny II had the Carroll and Downing debacle (although admittedly the lost Torres and got Suarez).
I wonder if this summer's failure to fix the alarming defence of last season will be Klopp's?
How can these players become hard to beat? Just seems unlikely at best. Impossible at worst.

I would be surprised and dismayed if he wasn't given at least another season, regardless of the dismal transfer window this summer.
 
This current defence is the worst in my memory of supporting the club. You can spot an opposition goal 15-20 seconds before it happens. Klaven would not start for any Premier League team. Matip is overhyped due to the Agger principle of looking all smooth on the ball. Lovren is bang average and Gomez isn't ready. All of the above is exacerbated by Klopp's game plan of providing limited defensive cover from midfield and allowing the full backs to bomb forward at every opportunity. I'm confident every single one of them would improve in another managers set up. Klopps playing a game that requires very good defenders with a load of average shite. Klopp obviously deserves faith and time, but it is concerning when you're average punter could improve the balance of this side tomorrow. He needs to be more pragmatic and accept the limitations of the defence if we're to get anywhere this season.

Just imagine what decent CL teams will do to us. It doesn't bear thinking about.

Agreed. Not having a good DM screening the defence with all of the above going on is negligent in the extreme. Either get yourself a fucking rock hard mobile and intelligent defence and worldie of a keeper and let the rest bomb on, or rein in the bombing on because we need more bodies at the back. We do neither.
In a world were Klopp is outsmarted by Craig fucking Shakespeare we are in serious do do.
 
I would be surprised and dismayed if he wasn't given at least another season, regardless of the dismal transfer window this summer.

I wasn't suggesting he won't get another season at least. And maybe he will learn from this and realise he needs to address it or his head will be on the block. But he'll need to pull off something special to prove he has the nous to find and get in the right defenders we need. We need a fucking DM. Does my nut in.
 
This current defence is the worst in my memory of supporting the club. You can spot an opposition goal 15-20 seconds before it happens. Klaven would not start for any Premier League team. Matip is overhyped due to the Agger principle of looking all smooth on the ball. Lovren is bang average and Gomez isn't ready. All of the above is exacerbated by Klopp's game plan of providing limited defensive cover from midfield and allowing the full backs to bomb forward at every opportunity. I'm confident every single one of them would improve in another managers set up. Klopps playing a game that requires very good defenders with a load of average shite. Klopp obviously deserves faith and time, but it is concerning when you're average punter could improve the balance of this side tomorrow. He needs to be more pragmatic and accept the limitations of the defence if we're to get anywhere this season.

Just imagine what decent CL teams will do to us. It doesn't bear thinking about.
For starters Sevilla IS a very decent CL team and we tore them apart for most parts of the game. I am not sure why you or anyone else would fear what 'decent CL teams' will do to us, as it's quite clear they should worry more about what we'd do to them than the other way round.

Btw Carra believes Agger is one of the best central defenders the club has seen for the past 20 years, so hardly over-hyped, especially not on this board where he's often referred to as a poor defender with an elegant twist. Or some bollocks like that.
 
I definitely feel great remorse for my historical views and anger toward Skrtel and Agger when they were here. You don't know what you got til it's gone.
On a totally different note, it seriously doesn't have anything to do with your comment, Lazio are playing against Napoli tonight.
 
I dunno. I feel like it's easier to fix a defense, with drills, dilligence and promote a capable youngster (and keep Moreno away).

I'd be more worried if we weren't as exciting in attack. Yes, I know we didn't score the other day, but we do have a lot of flair in the side.

Remember how hard it was to get some flair and goals with Roffa? Much harder to fix.
 
I dunno. I feel like it's easier to fix a defense, with drills, dilligence and promote a capable youngster (and keep Moreno away).

I'd be more worried if we weren't as exciting in attack. Yes, I know we didn't score the other day, but we do have a lot of flair in the side.

Remember how hard it was to get some flair and goals with Roffa? Much harder to fix.

Last night and the ban to Mane have shown though that it's also not easy to play every game with all your best players available, in fact, having one of them unavailable seems to be enough to upset the rhythm. It's no good being exciting in attack just once in every few games.
 
He seems to rate Lovren and he signed the other two - it's a bit concerning.

With the run of form we are slipping into, we might have a bit of a fight on to get out of what looks like a fairly easy champions league group on paper.

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I dunno. I feel like it's easier to fix a defense, with drills, dilligence and promote a capable youngster (and keep Moreno away).

I'd be more worried if we weren't as exciting in attack. Yes, I know we didn't score the other day, but we do have a lot of flair in the side.

Remember how hard it was to get some flair and goals with Roffa? Much harder to fix.
We won the CL and was ranked NUMBER ONE team in Europe. Give me lack of flair winning football over exciting losing football any day.
 
Another fucked up way of looking at this..say we start going defensive... we create less chances of scoring...how bad will that be ? We will never score given our current scoring to chances created ratio.
 
It was unposterlike like conduct from him first. I now see that the entire opening post was bullshit which he barely believed himself, with the sole intention of provoking the response I duly fell into giving.
..like taking candy from a baby.
 
Even I'm longing for the days of agger, and he wound me up no end
 
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