IF...
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I think it would be mentioned in the same light as the critical roles Watson and Shanks played in taking the club to where it belongs.
I just don't think you can do an 'apples v apples' comparsion with shankly and the likes though.
Back in those days a good manager with good players could win things. Today, therte are 2 trillion other variables that ensure that those things are only a fucking 1/10th of the battle. And considering what we've had to overcome in the last 5 years, coupled with how far back we're starting from in terms of money, squad depth, and recent sucess - it'd be right up there for me.
Back in those days a good manager with good players could win things. Today, therte are 2 trillion other variables that ensure that those things are only a fucking 1/10th of the battle. And considering what we've had to overcome in the last 5 years, coupled with how far back we're starting from in terms of money, squad depth, and recent sucess - it'd be right up there for me.
I think I agree, and hence I mention two of the greatest managers in our time who built (or re-built in Shanks' case) teams ... Kenny has been given a rather strong base BUT to mold this team into one capable of ensuring a league over 38 games? That would be a fantastic achievement, especially considering the barren run we've had over the last 20+ years.
I hope the IF becomes when.
I hope the IF becomes when.
I'm nont convinced it would be the greatest but certainly would be something special.
I still think Istanbul would be above it.
I still think Istanbul would be above it.
In recent memory...
Rafa in Europe. It got to the point where teams were terrified of having to face us. Yet apparently some people consider cup competitions nothing but luck.
Rafa in Europe. It got to the point where teams were terrified of having to face us. Yet apparently some people consider cup competitions nothing but luck.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44511.msg1298113#msg1298113 date=1299734221]
We won the league under Kenny in the next year or two, would it be the greatest achievement in our history?
I'm not really sure, just thought I'd throw it out there to stir some debate.
[/quote]
I don't think it would be the greatest 'achievement' in our history but it would be a great story.
'Club Legend returns to complete unfinished business' type stuff. Kop hero returns to restore ailing club to former glory etc etc
We won the league under Kenny in the next year or two, would it be the greatest achievement in our history?
I'm not really sure, just thought I'd throw it out there to stir some debate.
[/quote]
I don't think it would be the greatest 'achievement' in our history but it would be a great story.
'Club Legend returns to complete unfinished business' type stuff. Kop hero returns to restore ailing club to former glory etc etc
I think it would outstrip Istanbul, and by a distance. Winning Big Ears was magical, but it was not the sign that the club had created a great team, a legacy. We won, and had some great performances along the way, but our continuing domestic malaise meant that we could not command the same respect in the PL as we would in Europe in the ensuing seasons. If we conquer the PL, owing to the international appeal of the competition we will command the respect of the world. 38 matches is the real test of a team, we all know that. If we come out top of the pile in that competition, a competition that has become more difficult to win with the rise of Man City and Chelsea with their pots of cash, then I think it will be one of our greatest ever achievements. Perhaps, the single greatest.
But the financial advantage City and Chelsea have is being eroded by the new rules coming in. And really is it that much of a problem when Chelsea spend 70m net, we spend 2m net and we still improve more than they do ?
I think 2 years might be a little bit on the short side, we raise plenty of revenue certainly enough to have a successful side and one capable of winning a league title but too much of it is tied up in players who aren't good enough at the moment.
We will win the league in the next five years. We will qualify for the CL next season.
I think 2 years might be a little bit on the short side, we raise plenty of revenue certainly enough to have a successful side and one capable of winning a league title but too much of it is tied up in players who aren't good enough at the moment.
We will win the league in the next five years. We will qualify for the CL next season.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44511.msg1298148#msg1298148 date=1299742628]
But the financial advantage City and Chelsea have is being eroded by the new rules coming in. And really is it that much of a problem when Chelsea spend 70m net, we spend 2m net and we still improve more than they do ?
[/quote]
We'll see about the new rules Rosco, I'm not convinced that they're going to be enforced, or that these superwealthy owners may find a loophole.
As to the spending against Chelsea's in the last window, our success there was because we, for the first time in years, actually profited from a transfer window. I'd say that was down to a bit of luck and a bit of excellent judgement. We lost an overvalued player who wasn't pulling his weight and have signed a real diamond and one of England's finest prospects. More often than not though, net spend, and big wages will be a good indicator of success in this league.
But the financial advantage City and Chelsea have is being eroded by the new rules coming in. And really is it that much of a problem when Chelsea spend 70m net, we spend 2m net and we still improve more than they do ?
[/quote]
We'll see about the new rules Rosco, I'm not convinced that they're going to be enforced, or that these superwealthy owners may find a loophole.
As to the spending against Chelsea's in the last window, our success there was because we, for the first time in years, actually profited from a transfer window. I'd say that was down to a bit of luck and a bit of excellent judgement. We lost an overvalued player who wasn't pulling his weight and have signed a real diamond and one of England's finest prospects. More often than not though, net spend, and big wages will be a good indicator of success in this league.
I think it would be up there. We have to consider how far we've fallen, both in terms of the league and financially. Ok, we're not the worst in either sense and we're certainly better than our league position suggests, as you'd have to guess that with Kenny from the start of the season we'd be in a healthier position, but if falling from 2nd to outside the top four is considered a big failure, then leaping from where we are now to being champions in a couple of seasons would have to be deemed a massive feat.
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=44511.msg1298125#msg1298125 date=1299737499]
Will be the greatest for the last 30 years!
[/quote]
Just......... in my opinion.
I don't think Istanbul is really close to our greatest achievement. It was an incredible night and a few of the wins along the way were exceptional - Olympiakos and Chelsea being the standouts. But it was never convincing and we could easily have been out quite early on or been humiliated beyond comprehension in the final. I don't mean to take anything away from a very special night but always in the background of that cup triumph was our horrible league form where we finished behind the bitters and miles behind the other three clubs.
I think it was about 33 years ago our greatest achievement; going for the treble after the league and then suffering the heartbreak of a cup loss to the mancs. Seeing players like Keegan, Case etc virtually in tears at the end yet able to turn it all around in 4 days and beat an outstanding Borussia 3-1 in the European Cup final was incredible. I really thought it would be impossible to get themselves up for that game - both physically and mentally. That was an achievement we haven't equalled IMO - to do that after such a hard season where they played so many games was remarkable.
Will be the greatest for the last 30 years!
[/quote]
Just......... in my opinion.
I don't think Istanbul is really close to our greatest achievement. It was an incredible night and a few of the wins along the way were exceptional - Olympiakos and Chelsea being the standouts. But it was never convincing and we could easily have been out quite early on or been humiliated beyond comprehension in the final. I don't mean to take anything away from a very special night but always in the background of that cup triumph was our horrible league form where we finished behind the bitters and miles behind the other three clubs.
I think it was about 33 years ago our greatest achievement; going for the treble after the league and then suffering the heartbreak of a cup loss to the mancs. Seeing players like Keegan, Case etc virtually in tears at the end yet able to turn it all around in 4 days and beat an outstanding Borussia 3-1 in the European Cup final was incredible. I really thought it would be impossible to get themselves up for that game - both physically and mentally. That was an achievement we haven't equalled IMO - to do that after such a hard season where they played so many games was remarkable.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44511.msg1298155#msg1298155 date=1299744534]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=44511.msg1298125#msg1298125 date=1299737499]
Will be the greatest for the last 30 years!
[/quote]
Just......... in my opinion.
I don't think Istanbul is really close to our greatest achievement. It was an incredible night and a few of the wins along the way were exceptional - Olympiakos and Chelsea being the standouts. But it was never convincing and we could easily have been out quite early on or been humiliated beyond comprehension in the final. I don't mean to take anything away from a very special night but always in the background of that cup triumph was our horrible league form where we finished behind the bitters and miles behind the other three clubs.
I think it was about 33 years ago our greatest achievement; going for the treble after the league and then suffering the heartbreak of a cup loss to the mancs. Seeing players like Keegan, Case etc virtually in tears at the end yet able to turn it all around in 4 days and beat an outstanding Borussia 3-1 in the European Cup final was incredible. I really thought it would be impossible to get themselves up for that game - both physically and mentally. That was an achievement we haven't equalled IMO - to do that after such a hard season where they played so many games was remarkable.
[/quote]
I think this is spot on. As much as it has been repeated, it isn't any less true; luck has a lot to do with tournament results in the short term. 2 seasons and a half of dominance is not our greatest achievement. I wasn't even alive for most of them.
And if we do win the league, we will need to get lucky, but luck tends to even out over a 38 game season more or less. Sure there are extremes, but if we build a side that is capable of winning the league in the current conditions, I think it will be a much more difficult and worthy accomplishment than luckboxing one European Cup.
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=44511.msg1298125#msg1298125 date=1299737499]
Will be the greatest for the last 30 years!
[/quote]
Just......... in my opinion.
I don't think Istanbul is really close to our greatest achievement. It was an incredible night and a few of the wins along the way were exceptional - Olympiakos and Chelsea being the standouts. But it was never convincing and we could easily have been out quite early on or been humiliated beyond comprehension in the final. I don't mean to take anything away from a very special night but always in the background of that cup triumph was our horrible league form where we finished behind the bitters and miles behind the other three clubs.
I think it was about 33 years ago our greatest achievement; going for the treble after the league and then suffering the heartbreak of a cup loss to the mancs. Seeing players like Keegan, Case etc virtually in tears at the end yet able to turn it all around in 4 days and beat an outstanding Borussia 3-1 in the European Cup final was incredible. I really thought it would be impossible to get themselves up for that game - both physically and mentally. That was an achievement we haven't equalled IMO - to do that after such a hard season where they played so many games was remarkable.
[/quote]
I think this is spot on. As much as it has been repeated, it isn't any less true; luck has a lot to do with tournament results in the short term. 2 seasons and a half of dominance is not our greatest achievement. I wasn't even alive for most of them.
And if we do win the league, we will need to get lucky, but luck tends to even out over a 38 game season more or less. Sure there are extremes, but if we build a side that is capable of winning the league in the current conditions, I think it will be a much more difficult and worthy accomplishment than luckboxing one European Cup.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44511.msg1298148#msg1298148 date=1299742628]
But the financial advantage City and Chelsea have is being eroded by the new rules coming in. And really is it that much of a problem when Chelsea spend 70m net, we spend 2m net and we still improve more than they do ?
[/quote]
It is still a problem because they can afford to make mistakes in the transfer market whereas we pretty much have to get it right every time. It is also very easy to improve our team at the moment and the real test comes when we are trying to take those last steps into becoming a title contender again. I do believe we'll get there sooner rather than later but financial fair play would make it a helluva lot easier.
But the financial advantage City and Chelsea have is being eroded by the new rules coming in. And really is it that much of a problem when Chelsea spend 70m net, we spend 2m net and we still improve more than they do ?
[/quote]
It is still a problem because they can afford to make mistakes in the transfer market whereas we pretty much have to get it right every time. It is also very easy to improve our team at the moment and the real test comes when we are trying to take those last steps into becoming a title contender again. I do believe we'll get there sooner rather than later but financial fair play would make it a helluva lot easier.
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=44511.msg1298126#msg1298126 date=1299737565]
I'm nont convinced it would be the greatest but certainly would be something special.
I still think Istanbul would be above it.
[/quote]
You don't really think Istanbul was Liverpool's greatest achievement, do you?
I'm nont convinced it would be the greatest but certainly would be something special.
I still think Istanbul would be above it.
[/quote]
You don't really think Istanbul was Liverpool's greatest achievement, do you?
S
Squiggles
Guest
In an underdog spirit way Istanbul has to be right up there. We weren't a top side and regularly has shit players playing for us and we still somehow won it.
With regards to the topic question, much of it depends upon legacy. We may well win the league and it will rightly remembered as hugely significant and important, but we're near as hell won it under Benitez only to collapse the year after. Football is extremely fragile, and for it to be our 'greatest ever achievement' I would say we would have to be competing for the league the year after too. Only then could we say Liverpool FC are back where they belong.
With regards to the topic question, much of it depends upon legacy. We may well win the league and it will rightly remembered as hugely significant and important, but we're near as hell won it under Benitez only to collapse the year after. Football is extremely fragile, and for it to be our 'greatest ever achievement' I would say we would have to be competing for the league the year after too. Only then could we say Liverpool FC are back where they belong.
It depends on what you class as an achievement really. Istanbul was an obviously huge single achievement in the course of one game although I guess getting to the final with the team we had was an achievement in itself. Other achievements, like winning leagues tend to be done over a longer period of time and with greater consistency. It's almost impossible to single out anything for me. Wait, no, getting rid of Hicks and Gillette ;D
I dunno about greatest ever achievement, but if Kenny won it - either to stay ahead of the Scum, or to reel them in after overtaking us - would certainly be the best ever feeling
In my lifetime? Yes.
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