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if you were an arsenal fan would you want whinger out if they fail to win again

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[quote author=refugee link=topic=44561.msg1300138#msg1300138 date=1300220833]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44561.msg1300054#msg1300054 date=1300208067]
I think with the emergence of City and Spurs now is a very very risky time to be taking chances.

They may not have won much recently, but Wenger is keeping them competitive in an increasingly competitive environment.

I'm not so sure a new manager would be able to just go in there, spend 40M and win the league. A lot relies on Wenger and it'd be the end of an era. That kind of thing is difficult to handle at the best of times.

If I were an Arsenal fan, I'd be all for holding onto Wenger.
[/quote]

This
[/quote]

x2.

He's got them doing what we've been crying out for nigh on a decade; we want to compete.

He's had a couple of seasons where they fell off the pace - two years in succession where I truly thought they'd missed top 4 only to snatch it in the last game of the season. Otherwise, however, he's ensured they field a competitive team in all competitions and, once again this season, they look the only team capable of stopping the mancs.

As someone else asked, who is out there who would replace him? I imagine that after the champaign football they've played for nearly 15 years it would be a slap in the face with a cold fish to put Jose in there. He wouldn't do any better on the budget anyway and he'd look dire doing it.

The only complaint I'd have if I was a gooner would be that Wenger has had more money to spend but has resisted it; not many managers out there doing that and, on one hand, it's admirable but on the other...... highly questionable. A player like Mascher or of his ilk would have made a huge difference against Barca a couple of weeks ago and Brum in the Carling. Now he just needs to bite the bullet and bring in a keeper - probably kicking himself that he didn't get Schwarzer in the summer.

It's fair enough to say it's been 7 years but over the last 15 years they've been the 2nd most successful club in England - there are 18 other clubs in the EPL who'd love to be able to say that (including us).
 
He's got too much power at Arsenal. Apparently when they were moving to The Emirates, Wneger had final say over everything in terms of design - right down to how the fucking dressing room was going to be kitted out.

He's also surrounded himself with yes-men. What's Pat Rice's job? To sit there and nod?

He gets away with too much, has nobody questioning his judgement, and is given far too much free reign for zero return on the football pitch. The measure of a football club is not the positive return on the bottom of a balance sheet, it's trophies in the cupboard. Wenger's failing at that.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44561.msg1300259#msg1300259 date=1300254795]
He's got too much power at Arsenal. Apparently when they were moving to The Emirates, Wneger had final say over everything in terms of design - right down to how the fucking dressing room was going to be kitted out.

He's also surrounded himself with yes-men. What's Pat Rice's job? To sit there and nod?

He gets away with too much, has nobody questioning his judgement, and is given far too much free reign for zero return on the football pitch. The measure of a football club is not the positive return on the bottom of a balance sheet, it's trophies in the cupboard. Wenger's failing at that.
[/quote]

Maybe, but he gets closer to opening that cupboard to add to the stocks than any other team in the league with the possible exception of Chelsea IMO. Plus I'm pretty sure that he'll add the title this year which will either justify him or buy him a few more seasons - depending on your perspective.
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44561.msg1300266#msg1300266 date=1300255613]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44561.msg1300259#msg1300259 date=1300254795]
He's got too much power at Arsenal. Apparently when they were moving to The Emirates, Wneger had final say over everything in terms of design - right down to how the fucking dressing room was going to be kitted out.

He's also surrounded himself with yes-men. What's Pat Rice's job? To sit there and nod?

He gets away with too much, has nobody questioning his judgement, and is given far too much free reign for zero return on the football pitch. The measure of a football club is not the positive return on the bottom of a balance sheet, it's trophies in the cupboard. Wenger's failing at that.
[/quote]

Maybe, but he gets closer to opening that cupboard to add to the stocks than any other team in the league with the possible exception of Chelsea IMO. Plus I'm pretty sure that he'll add the title this year which will either justify him or buy him a few more seasons - depending on your perspective.
[/quote]
Playing attractive football and getting closer than any other team simply means he won nothing. His stubborness to invest in key players with experience has cost him quite a few titles and will continue to do so.
 
He has become too stubborn for his own good. He needs to admit to himself they need a keeper, proper centre half and a DM.

To get rid would be daft, having said that the board need to have a word with him.
 
Currently Wenger is Arsenal. That can't be good. He seen as untouchable despite a long barren spell.

A vast concrete bowl filled with mute humans is not sufficient for a big club.

It's like the fans want to say enough is enough but no-one wants to say it first (and yes, I know plenty of Gooners).

Still, from our perspective, if he stays and delivers easy on the eye football but no trophies then one less competitor for us (should we get our act together).
 
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=44561.msg1300279#msg1300279 date=1300260475]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44561.msg1300266#msg1300266 date=1300255613]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44561.msg1300259#msg1300259 date=1300254795]
He's got too much power at Arsenal. Apparently when they were moving to The Emirates, Wneger had final say over everything in terms of design - right down to how the fucking dressing room was going to be kitted out.

He's also surrounded himself with yes-men. What's Pat Rice's job? To sit there and nod?

He gets away with too much, has nobody questioning his judgement, and is given far too much free reign for zero return on the football pitch. The measure of a football club is not the positive return on the bottom of a balance sheet, it's trophies in the cupboard. Wenger's failing at that.
[/quote]

Maybe, but he gets closer to opening that cupboard to add to the stocks than any other team in the league with the possible exception of Chelsea IMO. Plus I'm pretty sure that he'll add the title this year which will either justify him or buy him a few more seasons - depending on your perspective.
[/quote]
Playing attractive football and getting closer than any other team simply means he won nothing. His stubborness to invest in key players with experience has cost him quite a few titles and will continue to do so.
[/quote]

Well, we've been crying out for the last 15 years that we could just compete, at least be in the race as we come down the home strait. Arsenal's been there more often than not while we've been there twice. I think Wenger is still one of the best managers going around; he's a whinging, miserable, prune faced unsighted prick but still one of the best managers going around.

Getting rid of him would be nuts - and Ryan, I still think he'll finish with the title this season.
 
I don't. They've got no balls.

On paper they've got better talent and players than just about every other side, but it's a team lacking winners, killer instinct and a bit of balls.

I may be proved wrong, but I doubt it.
 
Re: if you were an arsenal fan would you want whinger out if they fail to win ag

IMO arsenal have been crying out for a decent striker ,a dominant midfielder and a leader for ages now. Talented though many of the players are they do not seem to have quite the right blend character wise, they bottle it too often and players like fabregas , just seem to lack the determination and commitment to lead. They are not a team they are well drilled individuals, and to a degree that is Wengers fault for being too confident/proud/frugal/self important /stubborn (take your pick) to sort it out.

Want him sacked? lunacy.
 
Wenger's Managerial attributes are many but his reluctance to spend obviously available money and his arrogance in trying to achieve with the player base he's got has cost Arsenal 2 Prem titles, and probably other trophies IMO.
I'd like to see what United have won since Arsenal last won something because I don't think they've necessarily been a better team during that period. They've just kicked on where they've needed to. Arsenal had the means to do that too and Wenger chose not to.
I don't think they should get rid of Wenger, they'd struggle if they wanted to. But, I'd be frustrated if I was a fan. This period of 'nice play' will not be remembered in a few years, just the trophyless-ness. If you know what I mean.
 
Just for reads:

The only chance of silverware now left for Arsenal, who have not lifted a trophy since 2005, is the Premier League, but Hodgson rejects the idea Wenger has to win something this season.

"Of course I don't subscribe to that theory," he said. "I'm a football coach, I'm a football manager. Only one team can win the league.

"But if I was an Arsenal fan and I had had the chance to watch the football teams he's put together I'd be more than happy. So not only do I not subscribe to it but I find it offensive that it should be suggested."
Click to expand...

Robbie Savage chipping in with his view:

If Sir Alex Ferguson had won nothing for six years he would be retired by now.

Roberto Mancini won’t be given six years at Eastlands without some silverware in the dusty City cabinet. Carlo Ancelotti won’t last six months at Chelsea if he doesn’t pick up a trophy.

So if Arsenal fail to win the poorest Premier League title battle in history, there must be a call for Arsene Wenger to see the board. No other manager would get away with it.

Of course, the fact that Wenger is still in a job is down to the way he has conducted himself at Arsenal. He’s unearthed gems, financed some of their magnificent new ground and played the prettiest football in the division.

And do you know what? That means absolutely nothing when you win nothing.

That’s not just me talking. I was shocked by how furious Arsenal fans were on my 6-0-6 show last weekend.

In Arsene We Trust? Not any more. Fan after fan told me that just qualifying for there Champions League every year wasn’t enough and I agree with them. For a team that is in the top 10 in the world and is probably the equivalent of a Juventus or Inter, it is not enough.

And Wenger’s side is now full of wonderfully talented stylists who almost to a man have won less or the same domestically as me.

Now some Gunners fans are calling for Wenger to be replaced by Owen Coyle. I like the Bolton boss but I’m not sure it would work and I don’t think it would happen.

I’m not sure the foreign legion Wenger has assembled would take to a relatively inexperienced Scot and the Arsenal board might be still burned by the Bruce Rioch experience.

But I do think that board have got to show some guts this summer should Wenger not lift the title.

And either take the toughest decision possible or pull out a blank cheque and tell him that he must sign a world-class goalkeeper, defender, midfielder and striker by the end of the transfer window.
Click to expand...
 
Roy having another little spit about "offensive" criticism of managers, I see. Does he have ANY awareness of how he comes across?
 
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=44561.msg1300682#msg1300682 date=1300341971]
IMO arsenal have been crying out for a decent striker ,a dominant midfielder and a leader for ages now. Talented though many of the players are they do not seem to have quite the right blend character wise, they bottle it too often and players like fabregas , just seem to lack the determination and commitment to lead. They are not a team they are well drilled individuals, and to a degree that is Wengers fault for being too confident/proud/frugal/self important /stubborn (take your pick) to sort it out.

Want him sacked? lunacy.
[/quote] but just how long can you be being also rans with no silverware? for me they need new managment..
 
Think Wenger should get George Graham in as his number two at the club, remember how he got Arsenals defence solid as a unit when he was manager!!. I just think Wenger can't put the defensive side of the team together and someone like Graham would sort this leaving Wenger to concentrate on the attack which he is good at, though he'd wanna get better strikers than Bendtner and Chamakh!!
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=44561.msg1300166#msg1300166 date=1300224747]
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=44561.msg1300039#msg1300039 date=1300206299]
I was wondering if Arsenal would look to move Wenger to DOF and bring in someone young and hungry? He does have an eye for talent.
[/quote]

He has a definite eye for talent in midfield and attack. His judgment on defenders and goalkeepers is much less impressive, as is his fixation with developing youth to the exclusion of almost any other approach. If I were a Gooner (and I could well have been, as my dad was one) I wouldn't want him gone yet, but I'd want the board to lay the law down to him about strengthening the side and I'd be fairly relaxed about the consequences if he didn't like that.
[/quote]

What JJ has said. And ....

If he wasn't such an ass with regard to buying established players then we'd not have to worry about United reaching 19 this season. He has a blind spot that has held Arsenal back for years .... but maybe someone else managing the team would not have had his eye (if it is HIS eye) for talent spotting and bringing youngsters through. His failure to spend big has cost Arsenal at least three titles .... but he was also the one who put them in the running.
 
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=44561.msg1300683#msg1300683 date=1300343131]
Wenger's Managerial attributes are many but his reluctance to spend obviously available money and his arrogance in trying to achieve with the player base he's got has cost Arsenal 2 Prem titles, and probably other trophies IMO.
I'd like to see what United have won since Arsenal last won something because I don't think they've necessarily been a better team during that period. They've just kicked on where they've needed to. Arsenal had the means to do that too and Wenger chose not to.
I don't think they should get rid of Wenger, they'd struggle if they wanted to. But, I'd be frustrated if I was a fan. This period of 'nice play' will not be remembered in a few years, just the trophyless-ness. If you know what I mean.



[/quote]

Yep. I think their board has to tell him that they will support him over 1 more season to bring in the pieces that are missing to ensure silverware and that he must attempt to bring those pieces in. If I were an Arsenal fan I'd be very worried about the wheels falling off if Wenger were canned but, at the same time, to be close but no cigar every season isn't acceptable either. It was much the same for us with Rafa: last season aside, he delivered consistent Champions League qualification, excellent performances in Europe, and helped to attract some top players. However, the increasing evidence that he wouldn't bring in the trophy that's most important to us led to his dismissal.
 
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=44561.msg1320215#msg1320215 date=1303541113]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=44561.msg1300683#msg1300683 date=1300343131]
Wenger's Managerial attributes are many but his reluctance to spend obviously available money and his arrogance in trying to achieve with the player base he's got has cost Arsenal 2 Prem titles, and probably other trophies IMO.
I'd like to see what United have won since Arsenal last won something because I don't think they've necessarily been a better team during that period. They've just kicked on where they've needed to. Arsenal had the means to do that too and Wenger chose not to.
I don't think they should get rid of Wenger, they'd struggle if they wanted to. But, I'd be frustrated if I was a fan. This period of 'nice play' will not be remembered in a few years, just the trophyless-ness. If you know what I mean.



[/quote]

Yep. I think their board has to tell him that they will support him over 1 more season to bring in the pieces that are missing to ensure silverware and that he must attempt to bring those pieces in. If I were an Arsenal fan I'd be very worried about the wheels falling off if Wenger were canned but, at the same time, to be close but no cigar every season isn't acceptable either. It was much the same for us with Rafa: last season aside, he delivered consistent Champions League qualification, excellent performances in Europe, and helped to attract some top players. However, the increasing evidence that he wouldn't bring in the trophy that's most important to us led to his dismissal.
[/quote]

Which when you think about it, is absurd really, The Rafa thing I mean. We were never geared up to win the title, no stadium, not much funds and clowns in charge. Arsenal may find if they sack him, the new manager may be a lot worse. cf Hodgson. I think he's doing a sound job, Chelsea and Man Utd are Juggernauts, its not easy to finish above them both.
 
"If we do not deliver in one or two years I will be responsible. It is the most important moment in the life of this club" - Arsene Wenger, 16 May 2009.
 
Thinking about it, they should sack him. It's just not the lack of silverware, his behaviour is atrocious. The kicking of water bottles, the flapping of the arms, the disrespect to other managers is beyond a joke. How can he expect his players to keep composure when he can't? They should fuck him off and get Rijkaard. All The Arsenal fans I know, and I know many, want him out.
 
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=44561.msg1321515#msg1321515 date=1303751637]
Thinking about it, they should sack him. It's just not the lack of silverware, his behaviour is atrocious. The kicking of water bottles, the flapping of the arms, the disrespect to other managers is beyond a joke. How can he expect his players to keep composure when he can't? They should fuck him off and get Rijkaard. All The Arsenal fans I know, and I know many, want him out.
[/quote]

That why we aren't complaining that he's still here i guess.
 
Wenger keeps them challenging on 4 fronts and competetive every single season. They should keep him.
 
And he's done it with a negative net spend over the past decade, which allowed Arsenal to build the massive stadium. I don't think many managers are capable of doing that.

Arsenal will be challenging for the title every single year for at least the next five or six years thanks to what Wenger has done. He now has serious money to spend to augment the team he has already developed.
 
[quote author=Rebelred link=topic=44561.msg1320165#msg1320165 date=1303513144]
Think Wenger should get George Graham in as his number two at the club, remember how he got Arsenals defence solid as a unit when he was manager!!. I just think Wenger can't put the defensive side of the team together and someone like Graham would sort this leaving Wenger to concentrate on the attack which he is good at, though he'd wanna get better strikers than Bendtner and Chamakh!!
[/quote]But HIS team went through a season unbeaten.
If Vermealen had been fit all season Arsenal would have won the league and carling cup.

They'd be crazy to get rid of Wenger.
 
You can understand why Arsenal fans would want rid just as some of us wanted rid of Rafa when he was keeping us in the top 4 and genuine challengers for the CL.

Arsenal fans' been patient for this long and so they might as well be patient for a few seasons more, especially for when the fair play rules kick in. And this is from someone who's been critical of Wenger and his constant promises of a brighter future.
 
He may have money to spend, but I would be amazed if he actually did it. Their transfer record is still 13 mill £ from when they bought Wiltord in 2000. Thats his problem. Spend the little extra on winners and players with the biggest balls that wins you titles.

They're a team of bottlers, and Wenger is far to caught up in his philosophy to see it.
 
He claims he won't go spending big in the summer.

He says he will go with what he has (apprently).
 
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