Hillsborough: Searching For The Truth

[FoxForceFive]

I've waited for this shit rag to print something like this for a very long time.

Regardless, it actually changes nothing. They've known about 'inaccuracies' that disprove those allegations since a week after they printed them, yet only after the prime minister admits in parliament they lied & names the paper explicitly do they manage to do it.

Fuck them.

Two other papers ran similar stories (came from the same mp) but they used the words 'claims' & 'allegations' & quite quickly printed an apology.

It's too late. Hopefully many others will see that rag for what it really is in light of this.

 

[Rouge Penguin]

As i said earlier, i hope this drives down sales again with a whole new generation. It wont, its read by chelsea dave delivering boxes, but you can only hope.

 

[Portly]

On the "Sky News" newspaper report yesterday, the reviewers pointed out that when the current editor was making his apology, he was obviously reading the statement from an autocue. It was suggested that it would have been more of an indication of sincerity if he had just spoken off the cuff.

 

[Rouge Penguin]

And theyre still saying its not their fault, the cops told them. It is your fault, you took the stance of being right for 23 years.
Fuck them, fuck them in their black hearts.

 

[Insignificance]

This was so much more important than football itself. Thanks so much to those persons that never gave up. The patience they have shown is so admirable, and the long walk is now near an end. May the 96 rest in peace and may the people connected to them finally feel relief that all their knowledge now is official.

Imagine that there are police chiefs and other officials out there willing to piss on 96 graves to protect their own personal reputation is scary. May it never happen again!

And a special thanks to King Kenny for being the true leader at that torrid time. You are the best!!

 

[Vlads Quiff]

And theyre still saying its not their fault, the cops told them. It is your fault, you took the stance of being right for 23 years.
Fuck them, fuck them in their black hearts.

By all accounts the Mirror was fed the same stuff, but they had some proper journalists that looked into it and did not run with it. On one hand I can see the excuse of good sources , when a senior policeman and MP tell you something, on the other hand McKenzie and The Lying Rag have both had ample opportunity many many years ago, when it was clear what "the truth" was, to be this contrite, but they never were and thought they could carry on roughing it out, they were both wrong.

regards

 

[tony]

Gene I have to say that is a great post, I have read it three times now, and your words just hit the spot perfectly.

Mr Irvine Patnick was very very quiet yesterday, this man has some serious questions that need answering.

 

[Judge Jules]

I haven't heard a thing today. The FA thrives on injustice, so today will have been a bad day for them. They have quite a few questions to answer, including why they arranged the fixture at Hillsborough knowing that the ground had no safety certificate and that there had already been some nasty incidents there.

Perhaps they should be charged with "bringing the game into disrepute."

So true. So very true.

 

[Judge Jules]

By all accounts the Mirror was fed the same stuff, but they had some proper journalists that looked into it and did not run with it. On one hand I can see the excuse of good sources , when a senior policeman and MP tell you something, on the other hand McKenzie and The Lying Rag have both had ample opportunity many many years ago, when it was clear what "the truth" was, to be this contrite, but they never were and thought they could carry on roughing it out, they were both wrong.

regards

To be absolutely fair, I remember hearing that there were "Sun" journos who were concerned that there wasn't adequate evidence for what the paper was alleging and that MacKenzie personally ordered that the headline and the story be printed.

 

[Sunny]

I haven't heard a thing today. The FA thrives on injustice, so today will have been a bad day for them. They have quite a few questions to answer, including why they arranged the fixture at Hillsborough knowing that the ground had no safety certificate and that there had already been some nasty incidents there.

Perhaps they should be charged with "bringing the game into disrepute."

No apology from the FA even though they are clearly culpable for allowing a game to have been played at a ground that had not possessed a safety certificate for numerous years. A baffling decision especially when there was a similar incident 8 years previous when 38 Spurs fans were injured.

Anyway, here's their expression of sorrow the spineless cunts.


The Football Association commends the work of the Hillsborough Independent Panel."Having thoroughly reviewed yesterday's report in full, The Football Association would like to commend the Hillsborough Independent Panel for their exhaustive and professional work.

"It is also important that The FA recognises the tireless commitment shown by so many, particularly the Hillsborough Family Support Group.

"We welcome the publication of the report and the subsequent comments of the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition.

"The FA reiterates its deep and ongoing sadness at the dreadful events that unfolded on 15 April 1989.

"The organisation's thoughts at this time remains with the families of all those who lost their lives in such terrible circumstances, as well as everyone connected with the City of Liverpool.

"For 23 years the families have suffered unbearable pain, and we have profound sympathy for this.

"The FA has cooperated fully with the Panel throughout this process and has released all documentation in line with their request.

"The FA and English football has changed immeasurably, and has learnt many lessons in the last 23 years. Through advancements in safety and investment in facilities English football is now a much safer, more welcoming environment for supporters.”

 

[Judge Jules]

Sickening. If there is a new inquest I really hope somebody raises the FA's culpability as an issue to be examined. If I had anything to do with representing SYP I would definitely want to pursue that line - I'd be arguing that, whatever the fault on the police's side, they were essentially presented with an impossible task that day, and the reason for that was the FA's intransigence over the venue.

 

[Oncy]

Id like to mention Talksport for yesterday, in particular Adrian Durham, Darren Gough, Stan Collymore, Danny Kelly who made me cry all the way home.
They handled it well and were very brutish in their condemnation of the press, police and dogged in their insistance that the government not be allowed to wash their hands of this.
Thatcher knew. It was known in the halls. They need to be accountable.
Duckenfield is on a huge full honours pension. He needs to be imprisoned for perverting the course of justice.

Nothing will bring back the dead, but those who lied should not be profiting today.
Justice needs to come.

 

[peterhague]

By all accounts the Mirror was fed the same stuff, but they had some proper journalists that looked into it and did not run with it. On one hand I can see the excuse of good sources , when a senior policeman and MP tell you something, on the other hand McKenzie and The Lying Rag have both had ample opportunity many many years ago, when it was clear what "the truth" was, to be this contrite, but they never were and thought they could carry on roughing it out, they were both wrong.

regards

Both wrong? MacKenzie and 'The Lying Rag'?

What is 'The Lying Rag'? Is it it capable of being wrong? It's a newspaper - of some description - not a person.

From what I've read of the incident, it wasn't for a lack of proper journalists that that headline went to press, but pretty much entirely a prurient, wicked, desire on the part of MacKenzie to print a shocking and gratuitous story regardless of any complications like truth and decency.

I can't help despising this demonisation of The Lying Rag. Fair enough, it's a good shorthand to publicise the fact of the lies to a general audience, but to people like us versed in the details the outrage should be concentrated on the actual responsible individuals: MacKenzie and Murdoch. And to me the logical conclusion of that is all Murdoch properties, including The Times and Sky, should also be included in the boycott.

 

[Woland]

Both wrong? MacKenzie and 'The Lying Rag'?

What is 'The Lying Rag'? Is it it capable of being wrong? It's a newspaper - of some description - not a person.

From what I've read of the incident, it wasn't for a lack of proper journalists that that headline went to press, but pretty much entirely a prurient, wicked, desire on the part of MacKenzie to print a shocking and gratuitous story regardless of any complications like truth and decency.

I can't help despising this demonisation of The Lying Rag. Fair enough, it's a good shorthand to publicise the fact of the lies to a general audience, but to people like us versed in the details the outrage should be concentrated on the actual responsible individuals: MacKenzie and Murdoch. And to me the logical conclusion of that is all Murdoch properties, including The Times and Sky, should also be included in the boycott.

I do boycott those things but not out of some vengeful retaliation, but because I know that anything Murdoch produces is likely to be full of shit. It's for the good of my wellbeing that I don't subscribe to toxic assets.

Mind you if I couldn't get my footy from other sources I'd have to amend or redact that particular statement.

 

[Oncy]

Im sure The Lying Rag/Murdoch would like people to think that this was a different time and he press are now a much cleaner organisation.
The same organisation who last year were in court for deleting a murdered childs answerphone messages.

I hope. I REALLY fucking hope that the people of this country are understanding the importance of what has happened here.
This isnt about just Liverpool, or the 96. This is about abuses of power. Its about a massive cover up run by those who run the country over the working class everyman. Its sickening. And every single person in this country owes a debt to the families of the 96 for their doggedness and their insistence that the truth come out.
This is how our government and the press work. Dont pretend its in the past. Dont pretend its a Liverpool thing. Its a disgrace.

 

[Wilko7]

Both wrong? MacKenzie and 'The Lying Rag'?

What is 'The Lying Rag'? Is it it capable of being wrong? It's a newspaper - of some description - not a person.

From what I've read of the incident, it wasn't for a lack of proper journalists that that headline went to press, but pretty much entirely a prurient, wicked, desire on the part of MacKenzie to print a shocking and gratuitous story regardless of any complications like truth and decency.

I can't help despising this demonisation of The Lying Rag. Fair enough, it's a good shorthand to publicise the fact of the lies to a general audience, but to people like us versed in the details the outrage should be concentrated on the actual responsible individuals: MacKenzie and Murdoch. And to me the logical conclusion of that is all Murdoch properties, including The Times and Sky, should also be included in the boycott.

Excellent notion.

 

[Woland]

Im sure The Lying Rag/Murdoch would like people to think that this was a different time and he press are now a much cleaner organisation.
The same organisation who last year were in court for deleting a murdered childs answerphone messages.

I hope. I REALLY fucking hope that the people of this country are understanding the importance of what has happened here.
This isnt about just Liverpool, or the 96. This is about abuses of power. Its about a massive cover up run by those who run the country over the working class everyman. Its sickening. And every single person in this country owes a debt to the families of the 96 for their doggedness and their insistence that the truth come out.
This is how our government and the press work. Dont pretend its in the past. Dont pretend its a Liverpool thing. Its a disgrace.

This is what I was on about last night. The two biggest scandals unveiled in the UK in the past year have both had The Police and News International at their centre - twenty years apart. I very much doubt that these were two cases in twenty years. The entire media narrative for the period has been created and controlled by those two organisations.

 

[peterhague]

Murdoch is a fucking unscrupulous weasel, that's for sure.

 

[Rouge Penguin]

Listening in the car on the way to footy last night and the thing that keeps hitting you every time is the names. Fathers and sons, sisters, brothers, cousins.

Each one is like its own individual stab, and the knife twisted when you realise that half of someones home didnt make it back.

And im not even a scouser or 100% red. I remember it though, like 9-11, its one of those things i'll always recall exactly where i was, how i felt and how its still completely unbelievable.

Im happy that its not longer just Liverpools fight for justice, its anyones connected with football.

 

[Fox]

one thing that I really don't undertand is around the police cover up.

If you were the police trying to cover this up why the fuck would you keep the original statements filed next to the edited versions for someone to find in years to come.

Surely if you were trying to cover something up you would have destoyed the original statements.

anyone clear this up ?

 

[mark1975]

This probably sounds picky, but even the layout of that front page fucks me off. The headline is THE REAL TRUTH, the first sub-headline should have been their apology, in fact, the front page should have been their apology, instead it's almost like their catagorising of blame, with the police being the main cluprits - which they are, but this is The Lying Rag's chance to say sorry, properly (not that it actually means fuck all for any of us).

 

[peterhague]

one thing that I really don't undertand is around the police cover up.

If you were the police trying to cover this up why the fuck would you keep the original statements filed next to the edited versions for someone to find in years to come.

Surely if you were trying to cover something up you would have destoyed the original statements.

anyone clear this up ?

To be fair I don't understand that either. That's why I'd always presumed that the fight for justice would by now be forlorn. It also raises the further question of how much went on that could not be uncovered, and how much further the conspiracy goes, because it was indeed well concealed.

 

[Fox]

To be fair I don't understand that either. That's why I'd always presumed that the fight for justice would by now be forlorn. It also raises the further question of how much went on that could not be uncovered, and how much further the conspiracy goes, because it was indeed well concealed.

I mean as cover ups go its the shittest one ever, why did they leave evidence around of the edited statements, madness

You felt yesterday when all the sickening revelations were coming out, how the fuck did they find that out and how was that scam not covered up, they are police after all they should be good at covering up things.

Baffling

 

[Portly]

By all accounts the Mirror was fed the same stuff, but they had some proper journalists that looked into it and did not run with it. On one hand I can see the excuse of good sources , when a senior policeman and MP tell you something, on the other hand McKenzie and The Lying Rag have both had ample opportunity many many years ago, when it was clear what "the truth" was, to be this contrite, but they never were and thought they could carry on roughing it out, they were both wrong.

regards

I heard some interesting information on BBC Radio 5's "Up All Night" programme in the early hours. A former "Mirror" journalist was explaining the origin of the infamous stories that were published as "the truth." They were first put out by a Sheffield news agency called White's. The Mirror journo said that Whites were normally a respected source. However, they heard exactly the same stories from five different senior officers from the South Yorkshire Police so concluded that they must be true.

It now emerges that the South Yorkshire Police held meetings to ensure that all their officers told the same stories about the Liverpool supporters. It was wicked behaviour.

 

[FoxForceFive]

To be absolutely fair, I remember hearing that there were "Sun" journos who were concerned that there wasn't adequate evidence for what the paper was alleging and that MacKenzie personally ordered that the headline and the story be printed.

The journalist who wrote the original article said a few years later in an Independent article that he used different language throughout, stating clearly it was allegations being made & they weren't corroborated at all & shouldn't be treated as fact.

He spoke to Mackenzie when he saw the edited article stating it was wrong was told in no uncertain terms to fuck off. Apparently other staff there shared that view but couldn't stand up to him.

 

[Silver Sean]

There have been many times of late when I could no longer see the club that I fell in love with, all those years ago. What I thought made us special as a collective group of fans was slowly fading. We were just becoming like any other club, both team and fans alike.
Today I have had my faith restored.

Absolutely right count.

 

[Judge Jules]

Peter: anyone who's dealt with the police over the years will know how rule-bound and bureaucratic they can be. This is also why, for example, so much was found in the secret police archives when Communism collapsed. Then and now, incriminating papers have survived because nobody was prepared to take responsibility for the decision to destroy them when that would clearly be against the official rules.

As for the cover-up, I suspect more than just a bit of it was never committed to paper but arose from furtive conversations in corridors and gentlemen's clubs.

 

[the count]

I am curious to find what people think of LFC's role in the twenty three year fight for truth and justice?
The families have of course been absolutely incredible, the fans probably by and large too with players and managers being very supportive as well.
But how has the club contributed, particularly of late?


Oh and I think the talk of the Man U fans making some sort o gesture is a very magnanamous one and will hopefully be well recieved if it happens.
Even a simple singing by the away supporters of "Justice for the 96" would be a lovely gesture I think

 

[nealmac]

By all accounts the Mirror was fed the same stuff, but they had some proper journalists that looked into it and did not run with it. On one hand I can see the excuse of good sources , when a senior policeman and MP tell you something, on the other hand McKenzie and The Lying Rag have both had ample opportunity many many years ago, when it was clear what "the truth" was, to be this contrite, but they never were and thought they could carry on roughing it out, they were both wrong.

regards

Well that's exactly it. I can understand people make mistakes. The Rag should never have published that story, but they did it anyway. Big mistake. However, they could have righted all those wrongdoings by apologising at the time, off their own bat. A forced apology 23 fucking years later means nothing. Absolutely nothing.

 

[nealmac]

Peter: anyone who's dealt with the police over the years will know how rule-bound and bureaucratic they can be. This is also why, for example, so much was found in the secret police archives when Communism collapsed. Then and now, incriminating papers have survived because nobody was prepared to take responsibility for the decision to destroy them when that would clearly be against the official rules.

As for the cover-up, I suspect more than just a bit of it was never committed to paper but arose from furtive conversations in corridors and gentlemen's clubs.

That's the frightening thing.

Or another way to look at it is, how much paperwork actually DID get shredded? What else happened on that day that we'll never know about?