Gutted but excited about our changes for a return to the top 4

[Dreambeliever]

Jesus you’d swear we just got spanked 6-0 the way some of you are carrying on.
When the fixtures came in we all knew we had a horrible start on our hands. Yes we all hoped for more out of the 3 big games. But realistically it was always going to be a mountain to climb with a new manager new player and a half fit Torres.
We have played 10 games under Roy with only 1 game with our best 11. We have lost 2 (away to Utd and City) drawn 2 (Arsenal and away to Brum who have an amazing home record) and won 6.
By no means is this all doom and gloom. Some say they want positives? How about this?
Yesterday was the first time in 6 years we passed the ball around at OT. No hoof ball no disjointed MF. We lacked a cutting edge with only 1 up front but hopefully Roy saw the difference in having 2 up front even if N’gog offered little he at least created space for Torres by occupying a defender. Yesterday was the first time in 3 years it looks clear that Lucas will only be a squad player from now on. How fantastic is that? Poulsen looked like a half decent footballer yesterday, made some great tackles around the box and passed the ball well.
Raul looks a cut above the shit we are used to and was a hairs length away from making it 3-2.
Cole looked threatening the entire game. I really cannot see why everyone is so doom and gloom. This place stinks of naivety. With this set up we will beat a lot of teams this year. We played some good football yesterday against one of the best teams in the league. We fought back from 2-0 down when nobody gave us a chance. We gave them a hell of a scare and could easily have got something out of the game. We need to drop Maxi for sure. But Babel, N’Gog or Kuyt will easily add to the team instead of him. Make that change and I’d be very happy with our team.
We look like a footballing side again for the first time in years. The results will come and we will get 4th.
I guarantee when we look at the table in 3 months we’ll be nestled in the top 4. Positive signs? Of course there are.
And that’s not even mentioning the exciting youth prospects.

 

[El Nino]

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Niall K]

Those were my exact feelings after the game too

 

[Jack D Rips]

Dont always agree with you Dreamy but i certainly do here. Some of the posts on here since the final whistle today are just apalling. As i said in another post, fuck off and support some other team, if you're not prepared to support the team and manager after 5 games, that includes games against city, arsenal and scum.

Im off to bed now but no doubt will wake up to abuse from people not willing to support the team and manager

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=41962.msg1178062#msg1178062 date=1284939568]
Dont always agree with you Dreamy but i certainly do here. Some of the posts on here since the final whistle today are just apalling. As i said in another post, fuck off and support some other team, if you're not prepared to support the team and manager after 5 games, that includes games against city, arsenal and scum.

Im off to bed now but no doubt will wake up to abuse from people not willing to support the team and manager
[/quote]

I expect it from some but it seems like every man and his dog thinks its the end of the world because we lost away to the scum 3-2 to a late goal after coming from 2-0.


I was negative last year for valid reasons and alot of those are gone or going. Lucas being the latest to look on the way out of the first team.

I'm very positive about our chances of making the top 4 this season.

 

[localny]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=41962.msg1178072#msg1178072 date=1284942871]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=41962.msg1178062#msg1178062 date=1284939568]
Dont always agree with you Dreamy but i certainly do here. Some of the posts on here since the final whistle today are just apalling. As i said in another post, fuck off and support some other team, if you're not prepared to support the team and manager after 5 games, that includes games against city, arsenal and scum.

Im off to bed now but no doubt will wake up to abuse from people not willing to support the team and manager
[/quote]

I expect it from some but it seems like every man and his dog thinks its the end of the world because we lost away to the scum 3-2 to a late goal after coming from 2-0.


I was negative last year for valid reasons and alot of those are gone or going. Lucas being the latest to look on the way out of the first team.

I'm very positive about our chances of making the top 4 this season.
[/quote]

Would love to agree with you Dreamy, but we must have been watching a different game. United dominated except for a 10 minute spell, and when we equalized, we sat back. Hopefully you're right and we'll have a great run now the tough start is over, but I saw us rarely going forward, showing little cojones, and creating how many chances in the match?

We'll see what the next five games bring, but honestly I disagree. I thought today's performance against a bad United team was awful. But for two gerrard/torres moments (and they were few), we'd have got spanked. Fierce lucky with those two goals.

As i said, we'll see. I hope you're on the money

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=localny link=topic=41962.msg1178080#msg1178080 date=1284945365]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=41962.msg1178072#msg1178072 date=1284942871]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=41962.msg1178062#msg1178062 date=1284939568]
Dont always agree with you Dreamy but i certainly do here. Some of the posts on here since the final whistle today are just apalling. As i said in another post, fuck off and support some other team, if you're not prepared to support the team and manager after 5 games, that includes games against city, arsenal and scum.

Im off to bed now but no doubt will wake up to abuse from people not willing to support the team and manager
[/quote]

I expect it from some but it seems like every man and his dog thinks its the end of the world because we lost away to the scum 3-2 to a late goal after coming from 2-0.


I was negative last year for valid reasons and alot of those are gone or going. Lucas being the latest to look on the way out of the first team.

I'm very positive about our chances of making the top 4 this season.
[/quote]

Would love to agree with you Dreamy, but we must have been watching a different game. United dominated except for a 10 minute spell, and when we equalized, we sat back. Hopefully you're right and we'll have a great run now the tough start is over, but I saw us rarely going forward, showing little cojones, and creating how many chances in the match?

We'll see what the next five games bring, but honestly I disagree. I thought today's performance against a bad United team was awful. But for two gerrard/torres moments (and they were few), we'd have got spanked. Fierce lucky with those two goals.

As i said, we'll see. I hope you're on the money
[/quote]

We had alot of the ball but created little as we are too narrow with Cole and Maxi and both come in and torres isolated up front.

Once we went 442 we looked alot more positive and created 2 goals, had a header inches wide and N'Gog who should have put Torres through.

In the first half we created little but had 58% the ball. That is not bad at OT and I disagree that UTD were poor. Their 1st 11 yesterday was impressive.

If they get any more injuries they will suffer.

 

[Whaddapie]

But for two Gerrard / Torres moments..?

Isn't that a bit like saying "but for a berbatov hatrick we'd have won 2-0"?

 

[Y1]

I could not watch anymore when we went 2-0 down and switched off my TV. I was expecting to be slaughtered.

We hardly threathened up till then. All we did was to pass the ball sideways and back.

I was surprised by the final scoreline losing at 3-2. Restored some pride I must say even though I did not watch the rest of the game and how we played after going down 2-0 at that moment. My heart simply cannot take it anymore!

 

[localny]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=41962.msg1178089#msg1178089 date=1284947997]
But for two Gerrard / Torres moments..?

Isn't that a bit like saying "but for a berbatov hatrick we'd have won 2-0"?
[/quote]

I suppose I'm focused how little we created.

United didn't create a lot more, but they did pressurize us more.

For me, we did little except for that 10 minute spell.

The ball kept coming into the box for a header, like Fergie had identified this as a weakness..

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=Niall K link=topic=41962.msg1178058#msg1178058 date=1284938982]
Those were my exact feelings after the game too
[/quote]

What ?! You were one of the worst in the match thread. Go back and read your own words. Or maybe it was Roy you were after, I can't be bothered going back to check.

Couldn't agree more Dreamy. We passed the ball around superbly - beautiful stuff - and not just in own half. Nobody goes to OT and has more possession than United, yesterday we edged it. The lack of creativity came from Cole & Maxi I'm afraid. Cole was great on the ball but his final passes and decision making were abysmal. Maxi was ..... well everyone saw. N'Gog made a terrible decision when going for Row Z instead of playing in Torres who had cut away. Meireles was unlucky not to get his head on that superb Poulson pass and make it 2-3. We were unlucky not to get a point.

 

[furyoo]

We did look a more composed side in the second half, and tried to take the game to United. But two things were apparent. Firstly, we are still fairly clueless going forward. There were parts of the game where we were passing sideways because we had no idea how to push forward. And when we did, it was predictable. That was how we played under Rafa and it will take some time to change that. That is why players like Meireles and Cole, neither of whom have ever been trained in Rafa's system, have been such a breath of fresh air.

Secondly, Roy has to sort our defence out. Every time United had the ball near or in our box, we were in a state of disarray. Nani was in our box at one point and he had five of our players all around him, with two United players unmarked. Gerrard was there, so was Carragher. What's that about? We need more composure in defence, and sadly enough we would have benefited greatly this season more than any other if Hyypia had come back in a coaching role. I expect us to concede a lot of goals this season.

 

[StevieM]

[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=41962.msg1178101#msg1178101 date=1284956543]
[quote author=Niall K link=topic=41962.msg1178058#msg1178058 date=1284938982]
Those were my exact feelings after the game too
[/quote]

What ?! You were one of the worst in the match thread. Go back and read your own words. Or maybe it was Roy you were after, I can't be bothered going back to check.

Couldn't agree more Dreamy. We passed the ball around superbly - beautiful stuff - and not just in own half. Nobody goes to OT and has more possession than United, yesterday we edged it. The lack of creativity came from Cole & Maxi I'm afraid. Cole was great on the ball but his final passes and decision making were abysmal. Maxi was ..... well everyone saw. N'Gog made a terrible decision when going for Row Z instead of playing in Torres who had cut away. Meireles was unlucky not to get his head on that superb Poulson pass and make it 2-3. We were unlucky not to get a point.
[/quote]

I really think you are being overly positive here.

We retained posession well in our own half, but the minute we got anywhere near the attacking third of the pitch we were clueless for the most part.

We were so narrow it was frightening. Cole has some nice touches, but needs to be in the centre or at least on the right and Maxi shouldn't be playing in the same team as him.

Meireles played alright and looks tidy although I'm not sure where he fits in to the team with Gerrard & Cole all capable of operating in the same position, particularly if we are going to be playing a more defensive midfielder (Poulsen) as one of the central midfielders.

We're so slow and static going forward that we'll struggle to get results against well organised teams. It's no suprise whatsoever that our goals came from set pieces. Given thne p;ondersou nature of our approach play and lack of width it'll be easy for teams to play narrow, flood the midfield and watch us struggle to play through and end up constantly passing sideways and backwards.

There are positives - I'd like to see Gerrard & Meireles at CM with Cole in the hole linking them to Torres. It might seem like a lightweight CM partnership, but certainly no lighters than Scholes & Fletcher - which works well enough for them. Poulsen on the bench if we need to tighten things up - oh and I wasn't overly impressed with him - he was better in the second half (everyone was apart from Maxi) but looked lost in the first half.

The real problem, and it's been a problem since the Houllier days is the width. We're not going to seriously challenge for anything while we're playing an assortment of players out of position, or who constantly come inside or are slow, can't cross and have poor movement. We all know this. We've all known it for years and it'll be our undoing yet again.

 

[RolandG]

The biggest turnaround must come from Roy and his mentality. This will in turn resonate downward to the team. He needs to realise that he is at LIVERPOOL now and the bar is set much higher. His safety first containment tactics are rubbish. He needs to show more ambition and take some risks.

Of course we have the players to win and do it consistently, but its not worth talking about ifs and buts. We need to start doing the business and QUICKLY. All this talk of playing 3 of the top 5 teams is nothing but an excuse. These are the fixtures we always relished. We have a fully fit squad to choose from bar Aurelio and Kuyt. Our chances at the start of the game are equal. The difference has been our application and tactics.

In pre-season I mentioned that it may well be a blessing in disguise that we don't have transfer funds as Roy's hand will be forced to give some of the youngsters a chance. There's talent there.

Positives from yesterdays game:
1. Poulsen actually looked a capable footballer (we didn't miss Mascherano).
2. Meireless has already showed that he has class about him.
3. For the first time in ages we actually kept possession and passed the ball around.

Negatives from yesterdays game:
1. Carra's decline is not exxagerated
2. Lack of invention/cutting edge in final Third
3. Lack of composure (BMT)

 

[Rosco]

Do people not realise we would have been spanked if we didn't make some sort of (poor) attempt to contain United ?

The squad has been built for the purpose of containing teams over the past decade, it's not going to change overnight even if Hodgson was that type of manager.

 

[Dreambeliever]

It was pretty obvious to even someone like me! (Thats for you Ryan wherever you are) that width is what was missing and pace.

Cole inside, Maxi came inside and Raul came short leaving Torres up top with 2 sometimes 3 players shadowing him in the first half.

We need 2 wide men to at least hug the touchline. At least Kuyt for his flaws does that.

I could even live with one winger cutting in if we had a pacey full back overlaping as GJ tried to do once of twice, but only if the other winger was to stay wide for 90 mins and have some pace. We very rarely stretched Utd outwide.

I really wish Babel was given a run of games out wide right.

We have no one else, unless we promote a youngster.

 

[manwithnoname]

Oh just *fuck* off

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41962.msg1178129#msg1178129 date=1284963768]
Oh just *fuck* off
[/quote]

Excellant come back Brendan.

Are you not at least pleased to see Lucas is now not a 1st team must?

 

[zlatan18]

[quote author=El Nino link=topic=41962.msg1178057#msg1178057 date=1284938869]
Couldn't agree more.
[/quote]

^

 

[Insignificance]

Manygood points here.

We kept the ball wel, but as pointed out didnt dare or didnt want to treathening them on the wings. it was plenty of times our players ooked for the wide man, and couldnt releave the pass out. Either cause Maxi or Joe haddrifted inside or cause Johnson and Konchesky didnt bomb down. The first is due to their nature and the last is probably instruction from Roy.

 

[Niall K]

[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=41962.msg1178101#msg1178101 date=1284956543]
[quote author=Niall K link=topic=41962.msg1178058#msg1178058 date=1284938982]
Those were my exact feelings after the game too
[/quote]

What ?! You were one of the worst in the match thread. Go back and read your own words. Or maybe it was Roy you were after, I can't be bothered going back to check.

Couldn't agree more Dreamy. We passed the ball around superbly - beautiful stuff - and not just in own half. Nobody goes to OT and has more possession than United, yesterday we edged it. The lack of creativity came from Cole & Maxi I'm afraid. Cole was great on the ball but his final passes and decision making were abysmal. Maxi was ..... well everyone saw. N'Gog made a terrible decision when going for Row Z instead of playing in Torres who had cut away. Meireles was unlucky not to get his head on that superb Poulson pass and make it 2-3. We were unlucky not to get a point.
[/quote]

I wasn't being serious.

Oh and yes I thought we were shit yesterday apart from a ten minute spell but unlike others I wasn't going after Roy. Its a bit unfair to be slamming the guy after a few games considering he's had fuck all to spend and been left with a squad that wasn't really good enough

 

[spider-Neil]

my feelings are simply

* I feel fairly confident we'll win most of our home games

* I have no confidence WHATSOEVER for away games

* we draw or lose the majority of our away games, we'll finish midtable, regardless of how well we do at home

* two seasons outside the CL will see at least one of our star players leave

if that makes me negative then guilty as charged.

 

[Whitey85]

We were woeful again yesterday, 3-2 really flattered us. The team looks fucking horrible.

Things have to improve. I can't see how anyone is 'excited about our chances for a return to the top 4' when we've been spanked by 2 teams we are supposed to be competing with for those positions.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Do we really need one of these self-justifying posts after every game?

 

[DHSC]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=41962.msg1178246#msg1178246 date=1284977361]
Do we really need one of these self-justifying posts after every game?
[/quote]

Not if we win.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

I think there are some good points there Dreamy, and said as much myself in the Roy thread although I still think we will struggle for fourth.
We need another striker badly, but we will finish better than seventh.
I think/thought Maxi would be a good option on the right, but on current form he is disappointing.
Let's give Amoo a run.

regards

 

[Fox]

spot on Dreamy

I have been shocked at the personal insults on here about Roy, his age, his looks ETC after only 5 games

He had been in the job for 5 PL games FFS, we had 3 new midfielders in the team yesterday and they all did well, Maxi was the only real duffer.

Maybe the internet and fans phone ins ETC are to blame but the ridiculous level of expectation now after a short time, it is madness, the anger that is created so quickly is truly pathetic.

Alot of you fuckers should be ashamed of yourselves, call yourself fans but jump on the insults so quickly.

Poulson is a great example, many on here slagging him off as not good enough before he had even played. He showed on Sunday that he is a decent passer and solid tackler and a good buy at that price, Raul is looking a good prospect and Paul K is a solid purchase. Roy is just getting settled and will probably get better at the interviews to sound more positive as we do better and he gets used to working with a bigger club.

I thought having Raul, Stevie and Joe C in the same team showed a positive intent at Old Toilet, then bringing on a second striker and leaving Joe on was again positive.

Like Ross said we have got the same amount of points against brum, ars, mancs and city as last season under a manager who knew the team for 5 years +. Bar a stupid Pepe mistake it would have been more against Ars.

Torres staring to score will make a huge difference for Roy, Rafa would have played Masher and Lucas in CM yesterday and Rafa also would have struggled as much as Roy supposedly has with Nando in such bad touch.

We have not got a berbatov to cover for Rooney's bad form, Nando's cover is David NG

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Fox link=topic=41962.msg1178268#msg1178268 date=1284979032]


We have not got a berbatov to cover for Rooney's bad form, Nando's cover is David NG





[/quote]

who is filling the role admirably

 

[manwithnoname]

Poulsen is a massive retrograde step from Mascherano, any fucking scoper can see that.

And while Konchesky is better than Insua, that's hardly a ringing endorsement, and he was shit yesterday.
Meireles didn't seem to know where he was playing, the defence was hopeless, even Reina was shit. Cole was fitful, and Maxi was a massive useless cunt.

Only Gerrard and Torres were dangerous, and Budgie is so far out of his fucking depth he's got the bends.

But again, who could be surprised? We've got an ordinary squad, no money and a mediocre, defensive manager who has about as much fight and passion as a decomposing sheep

 

[ragehard]

dreamy would put a positive spin if we got relegated. 🙂

we've been shit so far this season and the next 5 games against mid table shit on paper will define our season.